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Trump Says I Have Tremendous GOP Support Amid Impeachment Fight; Moderate Republican Will Hurd Shows Resistance to Impeach; Trump Meeting on Vaping Turns Contentious; Bolton Says White House Blocked Twitter Account; Prince Andrew Steps Back from Public Life Amid Epstein Scandal. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired November 22, 2019 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: -- Republicans speaking against the President. Texas Congressman Will Hurd, a known moderate, has not been shy in the past. He's not running for reelection but here's what he said on the last day of public hearings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. WILL HURD (R-TX): The use of the phrase, do us a favor, though, in reference to the 2016 Presidential election and the mention of the word Biden. I believe both statements were inappropriate, misguided foreign policy, and certainly it's not how the executive current or in the future should handle such a call. An impeachable offence should be compelling, overwhelming clear and unambiguous, and it's not something to be rushed or taken lightly. I've not heard evidence proving the President committed bribery or extortion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go to Jeffrey Engel, he is a CNN presidential historian, he's also the founding director of the Center for Presidential History at Southern Methodist University, plus he co- authored "Impeachment in His American History." So Jeffrey, welcome, welcome. And listening to Will Hurd's statement, you know it is the strongest signal yet of which way the impeachment winds are blowing, that's how "The Atlantic" put it. If Democrats cannot draw a Republican lawmakers like him to their side, will they win any over at all?

JEFFREY ENGEL, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: It seems very unlikely. I mean the truth of the matter is we've seen this entire debate go from what did the President do, what did the President know into really a sense, well, now that we know what he's done does it matter? And critically that is the transition for Richard Nixon during the Watergate days that led to his downfall once people realized what he had done and recognized that what he had done was really a high crime, that led to his resignation very quickly.

And for Bill Clinton, people all agreed on what he had done. But the real debate was whether or not lying in a deposition for a personal affair was a high crime. And ultimately the country decided in the Senate decide no. So I think Representative's Hurd's comments suggest there is very little disagreement over what actually happened, the question is what does it mean?

BALDWIN: So given history, will there be any price for Republicans if they don't actually acknowledge what the evidence shows?

ENGEL: You know, if there does actually seem to be some, there's very little price that's going to be paid probably in the short-term, in that Republicans will probably all band together as they've done in the past and not show any sort of chink in the armor. I mean, the truth of the matter is in the Clinton case, in 1999, the Republicans were all onboard with impeachment. A few Democrats went forward with impeachment as well.

But the real key discussion showed up in the Senate. Where the Senate Majority leader Trent Lott and minority leader Tom Daschle essentially just decided ahead of time that this was not going to be a guilty verdict. And that allowed them to play out essentially a show trial in many ways. Play out the pretense of having an actual discussion but know that each their Republicans and Democrats could go to their separate corners at the end of the day and there'd be no political fallout. So I think that's likely what we're going to be shaping up to see going forward at least the way things stand right now.

BALDWIN: Didn't Democrats -- speaking of President Clinton -- didn't Democrats try to censure Clinton? I mean would that be an alternative to impeachment?

ENGEL: Yes, you know, the truth of the matter is there's all kinds of options available. There are very few rules. In fact, in a sense there really are no rules because we have so few precedents that the Senate and the House can rewrite the rules anytime they want on how do this.

BALDWIN: Yes.

ENGEL: So there was discussion for Clinton on perhaps to censor him before and then subsequently after he was formally impeached. There was discussion whether or not the Senate might actually do that as well. And there's a very, very, very critical thing to note about the Senate vote, which is that -- at least in terms of the Clinton vote -- the precedent was set and discussed at that point that the Senators not only were able to vote whether or not the person was guilty or innocent. But also whether or not there essentially should be impeached and removed from office for the good of the country.

That is to say, it was still possible for them to say, yes, you're guilty of the crime but we don't think you actually are impeached and should be removed from office in a literal sense. And so that does give some wiggle room for people to discuss other options.

BALDWIN: Last question, Jeffery, and it's about John Dean. Right? John Dean, you see him on CNN now opining on our current state of affairs. Who was a star witness in Watergate. He believes that if Richard Nixon were going through an impeachment inquiry today that he probably would not have been forced out of the White House. Do you agree with that?

ENGEL: You know, I think it's entirely reasonable when you consider what really forced Nixon out what we like to refer to as the smoking gun tape. That is to say a tape that was essentially un-possible to dispute that we heard the President's voice on the tape essentially admitting to the things he had been denying for over a year.

We have to ask ourselves then if the country in 1974 was able to look at one piece of evidence and all agree that it said the same thing.

[15:35:00]

What piece of evidence can we find in our scattered political discussion today, in 2019, that everyone in country not only could agree what it meant but agree that it actually was true? I mean we live in a time we essentially are dealing with different facts in the way that we weren't in 1974. And if Nixon today was essentially able to argue that what he had done, that smoking gun tape didn't exist or didn't say what it said it did. Or perhaps wasn't even his voice, that would be a way for him to have gotten away with it back in -- in today.

BALDWIN: Jeffery Engel, thank you so much for your insight. Good to have you on.

ENGEL: Good to see you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, former National Security Adviser John Bolton sends out this cryptic tweet this morning, that his, quote, backstory is coming. We'll dig into his claims that the White House has been trying to silence him.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Just in, the President has been holding a White House meeting this afternoon on the vaping epidemic in this country. He's yet to make a decision on whether to ban flavored e-cigarettes and it got a little tense between the vaping companies who make these products and Senator Mitt Romney. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Romney, (INAUDIBLE) the second largest e- cigarette company in the country. 92 percent of my revenue is flavors and I had 1.2 percent of users --

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): This is the largest company and none of this are flavors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are different companies, we are not --

ROMNEY: I understand, this, is the largest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over 9000 people --- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seventy percent of the youth according to National

Tobacco survey get their vapor products from social sources, friends, family or other people that are 18 years or older.

ROMNEY: Ten thousand stores.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Only 8.4 percent get --

ROMNEY: Ten thousand stores selling these things, 10,000 stores. The kids are overwhelmingly being able to get these by virtue of 10,000 stores selling flavors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not the vape shops. The vape shops are typically adult only shops, Mr. President. And that's --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It turns out the most recent --

ROMNEY: So it's very important for you to realize this, separate and apart from the convenience stores and the gas stations --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right. So CNN White House correspondent Boris Sanchez is at the White House for us, and Boris, maybe give us a little bit more context to this meeting and then also, we saw the President listening, did he respond and what did he say?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, the President gave some of his most extensive comments regarding this potential ban on flavors for vaping. Really the context here is that the debate in the cabinet room was between some heads of vaping companies and health associations and at least one national lawmaker in Mitt Romney who is very passionate about this issue. Both sides had a very heated argument. Mitt Romney essentially arguing that these flavors like unicorn poop he said are meant to attract kids.

The counterargument from the vaping companies was that banning these flavors could lead to a loss of American jobs. The President effectively said that he wanted to do what was best for kids. But he kind of revealed a little bit about how he might move forward on this, suggesting that a prohibition on these flavors might lead people who vape to going out on the street to look for these products illegally. In other words it would create a sort of black market the kind that we saw for alcohol during Prohibition.

Obviously, this is a key issue for the President considering some of the polling that has been done by his campaign. It's part of the reason reportedly he backed off of this issue after that proposed ban in September. This is the most activity we've seen on this since then -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Did you say what I think you said about the flavor of the vaping?

SANCHEZ: Yes.

BALDWIN: OK.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Definitely -- the most amusing moment in that entire meeting. Mitt Romney saying unicorn poop, Brooke.

We can't make it up.

BALDWIN: OK. It's been a long week. Boris, thank you for that. I just -- that's what I thought but wasn't sure and needed to -- I needed to ask. Thank you.

Let me get us back on track to the impeachment inquiry where Republicans are continuing to cry foul over not hearing from more witnesses with direct access to the President. But the problem with that argument is, the key officials who we know were involved with these conversations with Ukraine have already refused to either testify or to comply with subpoenas and hand over documents.

But one, former National Security Adviser John Bolton, is signaling that he may be ready to talk. This morning tweeting this, quote, glad to be back on Twitter after more than two months. For the back story, stay tuned, dot, dot, dot. He went on to claim that the White House revoked access to his Twitter account until now.

And Brett Bruen, is the former director of global engagement at the Obama White House. He is now president of the global situation room, a national security columnist for "Business Insider." So Brett, welcome.

BRETT BRUEN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL ENGAGEMENT UNDER OBAMA: Good to be with you.

BALDWIN: This is the impeachment obviously of the President of the United States. So when you look at John Bolton's tweets today, what is he doing?

BRUEN: Well, can I first just say diplomats rock. I mean what we saw over the last two weeks was how diplomats stare down despots and dictators around the world defending American interests, defending Americans. And that was just remarkable and I think they were the real stars of this impeachment.

BALDWIN: I want to come back to that. I want to come back to your point. But on John Bolton what are you thinking?

BRUEN: On John Bolton, you know, his tweets struck like lightning bolts. I mean it's almost like Zeus up there throwing this down at a key moment. I mean he didn't tweet this out a few days after the impeachment inquiry or the impeachment hearings took place.

[15:45:02]

It was the day after. It was timed for affect, and clearly, John Bolton has a story and he wants to tell it.

BALDWIN: On your point about diplomats rocking. You know, all of these career diplomats have been sounding the alarm about the damage that's been done to our national security as a whole. How much damage has been done and how do we fix it?

BRUEN: Well, talking about the damage, I think that was evident in these hearings about how the staff has been demoralized, and in effect, what we're seeing is an effort to really gut the National Security Council. To call out individual members of our national security structure and expose them to this political process, question their loyalty, question all parts of their personal background that have no bearing on this inquiry. So who's going to want to serve on the National Security Council after having seen what Jennifer Williams, what Lieutenant Colonel Vindman and others have gone through?

BALDWIN: Yes, Yes.

BRUEN: The second piece is, I think we've seen how the process is just broken down. There are no consultations. The President isn't listening to anyone. He is just freelancing here.

BALDWIN: Yes, Brett Bruen, thank you so much for that. We'll continue the conversation another day.

Coming up next, we have to talk about Britain's Prince Andrew continues to get backlash for past friendships with Jeffrey Epstein. Details on the groups cutting ties to him now.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The fallout continues for Prince Andrew following his jaw- dropping interview about his ties to convicted sexual predator Jeffrey Epstein who was found dead in his jail cell. Multiple companies and cultural institutions have now stopped working with the Prince and his private secretary who arranged that explosive BBC interview has since been removed from her role. CNN Royal correspondent Max Foster reports from London.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT(voice-over): By speaking out, Prince Andrew hoped to end speculation about him and his links to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein but it ended up costing him his job. According to a Royal source, he agreed to step back from his public duties following discussions between him and the Queen, Prince Charles and others. In a follow-up statement the Duke expressed sympathy for Epstein's victims and regret for his association with Epstein. Both noticeably absent from his BBC interview.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you regret the whole friendship with Epstein?

PRINCE ANDREW, UNITED KINGDOM: Now, still not. And the reason being is that the people that I met and the opportunities that I was given to learn either by him or because of him were actually very useful. FOSTER: The Duke has denied all of the allegations made by Virginia

Roberts who alleged Epstein forced her to have sex with Prince Andrew while she was underage.

PRINCE ANDREW: I have no recollection of ever meeting this lady.

FOSTER: He even questioned the authenticity of this photograph of them together. He refuted Roberts' claims that he was sweating while dancing in a nightclub saying an overdoes of adrenaline after he was hot at while serving in the Falklands war made him medically unable to sweat.

PROFESSOR ASHLEY GROSSMAN, ENDOCRINE SPECIALIST: I can't readily see how someone following stress can stop sweating and then subsequently over time start sweating again. That is -- if it occurs, it must be very, very rare.

FOSTER: One by one corporate sponsors for the Prince's charitable causes peeled away. And when the story became part of the British election debate it was clear the Duke's position was becoming untenable.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is the monarchy fit for purpose? Jeremy Corbyn.

JEREMY CORBYN, LEADER OF LABOUR PARTY, UK: It needs a bit of improvement.

FOSTER: The Duke's actions had affected the institution that he was born into.

PETER HUNT, ROYAL COMMENTATOR: This has damaged the British monarchy, make no mistake that. It's not a full-blown crisis. What has been called into question is the judgment of many people including the judgment of the Queen for allowing this interview to take place.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Max Foster there with that report. Still ahead here, former Vice President Joe Biden sits down with CNN for a wide-ranging interview today. Why he says he's, quote, embarrassed, for his old friend Senator Lindsey Graham and what he thinks of his new 2020 competition.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Want to take a moment just to honor one of this year's top ten CNN Heroes. Nurse Najah Bazzy found her mission when she made a house call in Detroit more than 20 years ago.

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NAJAH BAZZY, CEO, ZAMAN INTERNATIONAL (voice over): Working as a nurse I went to visit this Iraqi refugee family and an infant that was dying and there at the house they absolutely had nothing. There was no refrigerator. There was no stove. There was no crib. The baby was in a laundry basket.

BAZZY (on camera): I decided that this wasn't going to happen on my watch.

BAZZY: How's your apprenticeship going?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty good.

BAZZY (voice over): Nurses are supposed to fix things. We are healers and this is just a place that heals the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Heals the world. She's has helped more than 250,000 women and children. You can vote for nurse Najah Bazzy or any of our top ten finalists to be CNN Hero of the year. Just go to CNNheroes.com.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

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