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Indicted Giuliani Associate Willing To Testify GOP Rep. Nunes Went To Europe For Biden Dirt; Bolton: "It's Time To Speak Again"; VP Mike Pence Visits Troops In Iraq; Navy Chief: Review Of Convicted SEAL Should Proceed. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired November 23, 2019 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:14]

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Martin Savidge, in for Fredricka Whitfield.

And we're going to begin with a lot of new developments in the impeachment inquiry that may link some of the key players to a campaign of shadow diplomacy and an orchestrated smear against the Bidens.

As first reported on CNN, a lawyer for indicted Rudy Giuliani associate Lev Parnas tells CNN that his client is willing to testify about secret meetings between ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, that's Congressman Devin Nunes, and a disgraced former Ukrainian prosecutor.

This alleged meeting took place in Vienna in December of last year and reportedly involved the two discussing how to dig up dirt on the Bidens and how to push a debunked conspiracy theory that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election. Sentiments that have often been cited by Nunes during the impeachment hearings this week. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEVIN NUNES (R-CA): No conspiracy theory is too outlandish for the Democrats. You would think they would take some interest in Burisma and you'd think they would be interested in Joe Biden. We need to subpoena Hunter Biden.

I think the mothers of all conspiracy theories is that somehow the President of the United States would want a country that he doesn't even like, he doesn't want to give foreign aid to, to have the Ukrainians start a investigation into the Bidens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Also today we're learning more about another key Trump ally. Documents released late last night show how the White House helped arrange a phone call between Rudy Giuliani and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. That call happened the day after the President's personal lawyer handed over unproven claims about Biden and his son.

And then there's this -- new details are emerging that the U.S. intelligence officials briefed senators and their aides earlier this fall about Russia's role in pushing a years-long campaign to blame Ukraine for 2016 election meddling.

Let's get started with all of this with the reporting now that CNN has originated of these meetings between Nunes and former Ukrainian prosecutor.

And for that we turn to CNN's Marshall Cohen who's here. And Marshall -- what more do we know about this? Because it's pretty shattering stuff.

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Martin, there is a chance that this really could make waves as Democrats continue moving forward in the impeachment inquiry.

So here's what we know. As you mentioned, the lawyer for this indicted associate of Rudy Giuliani Lev Parnas is the Ukrainian- American businessman who was connecting Giuliani with some Ukrainian officials that were offering dirt on the Bidens. As we reported last night, he wasn't just connecting -- he didn't just have knowledge of Giuliani's ties for these people, he also is ready to testify that Devin Nunes had a meeting with a man named Viktor Shulkin, the former prosecutor general of Ukraine. The top dog in Ukraine for several years until 2016 when he was forced out for not doing enough to crack down on corruption.

And because of that, he sort of reemerged now in this saga, offering dirt and information about the Bidens, much of it sketchy, much of it uncorroborated, but it appears that he may have had an audience with Devin Nunes, the ranking member of the intelligence committee, who as you saw in that clip has been pushing many of these same theories about Joe Biden and his son.

SAVIDGE: And what's also interesting here, Marshall, is that this isn't the first time that we've seen Nunes play defense for the White House. How is he responding to all of this?

COHEN: Yes, you know, from the very start of the Trump presidency, Devin Nunes has been a stalwart ally and defender of the President and has pushed back on so many of these very credible allegations of Russian meddling.

CNN tried to get a response from him. He was not cooperative with that. He said that he wouldn't speak to any of our reporters in this lifetime or the next lifetime, which is kind of interesting.

But he did give a comment to another outlet overnight saying that it is false that he met with this man, Viktor Shulkin. We'll see how this all hashes out. As we said, Lev Parnas is saying that he's willing to say it under oath. So we'll see.

SAVIDGE: Yes. We will see. I think it's only just beginning.

Marshall Cohen -- thanks very much for that.

All right. Let's turn now to Tara Sonenshine. She's a former undersecretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs under President Obama. Good morning.

TARA SONENSHINE, FORMER UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE: Good morning. Thanks for having me -- Martin.

SAVIDGE: Tara -- give us a sense really of all of this. How significant would a meeting between the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, a meeting with what, I guess, you would describe as a foreign actor in this capacity? How significant would it actually be?

[11:05:01]

SONENSHINE: Well, I'm afraid I'm going to be a little bit of the skunk at the party here because as a journalist -- and I know I'm speaking with an esteemed journalist -- at least in the old days we were careful with this kind of information.

What are the sources? what are the motivations? And I think we're in a bit of an era of rush to judgment. I think the public is still trying to absorb what happened in the last two weeks with these inspiring public officials.

So I think, for me at least, Russia, Putin, the blame Ukraine game should really be the top of our agenda and I would let this one play out.

SAVIDGE: All right. Fair enough. Let me ask you this. You were deeply involved in diplomacy. When you see someone like a Rudy Giuliani, the President's personal lawyer, running around gathering information, having a meeting with foreign officials, what does that do for U.S. foreign policy here?

SONENSHINE: Right. What we do know about foreign policy is it's messy. You have a lot of diplomats, a lot of cables, a lot of meetings, a lot of principals, a lot of clearances, a lot of security. Democracy is messy but it is normally contained within the framework of those who have clearances, are confirmed, are nominated and serve.

So when you have outside actors whispering in the President's ear, of course, you're going to end up with this very convoluted, complex sidetracking of our national security.

We saw this happen somewhat in Iran contra many years ago, although that second shadow foreign policy happened from within the administration. But it reminds me of what happens when there are too many cooks in the foreign policy broth.

SAVIDGE: We are also learning that the U.S. intelligence officials briefed members of Congress, I believe it's members of the Senate in recent weeks, about Russia's involvement in pushing the Ukraine meddling conspiracy. As someone who's worked with the White House, does it surprise you that such a conspiracy seemed to make its way all the way to the Oval Office?

SONENSHINE: This is the central question that I hope we focus on in the next few weeks. There used to be a bipartisan consensus in this country about Putin and Russia. We needed to find our interests with Russia and work on those but never, ever doubt the global chess master, Vladimir Putin. Ex-KGB, smarter than all of us. It is no surprise that he would have figured out ways to insert himself into this process.

Fiona Hill will turn out to be one of the most important witnesses. She said publicly what you're now asking me about that happened privately after that testimony.

SAVIDGE: Well, the fact that you bring her up, let's turn to the sound bite actually because several Republicans involved in the impeachment hearings have even pushed this Ukraine meddling conspiracy theory this week. And as you mentioned, here's what President Trump's former top Russia advisor had to say about those claims. We'll listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FIONA HILL, TRUMP FORMER TOP RUSSIA ADVISOR: Some of you on this committee appear to believe that Russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country and that perhaps somehow for some reason Ukraine did. This is a fictional narrative that is being perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Tara, she is saying that essentially members of Congress, certainly some of them, are playing right into Vladimir Putin's hands.

SONENSHINE: She is actually saying, if you look back, Martin, at what George Washington warned us about in his inaugural speech. He said beware of the foreign meddlers. At that point it was Europe and the British.

But he warned our country of three things. Beware of outside influence. Go for the public good. And lastly, he said truth will always in the end win but the pains will be there for us to get there.

SAVIDGE: That's actually a very telling statement about the pains of today.

Tara Sonenshine -- so good to talk to you this morning. Thank you very much.

SONENSHINE: Happy Thanksgiving. Thank you.

SAVIDGE: And to you. Thank you.

There is much more ahead.

The White House -- how it arranged the phone call between Rudy Giuliani and Secretary Pompeo. CNN now has new emails linking them to a plot to smear former vice president Joe Biden.

Plus, former national security advisor John Bolton is again teasing he has a lot to say, announcing today that he's formed a political PAC and a whole lot more. We'll talk about that, next.

[11:09:52]

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SAVIDGE: Former national security advisor John Bolton, he is tweeting again, one day after he said his Twitter account was liberated from unfair White House suppression.

This morning the former Trump official shared this cryptic message. "Let's get back to discussing critical national security issues confronting America. The threats are grave and growing. The presidency and control of the House and the Senate will all be decided in less than one year. It is time to speak up again."

CNN National Correspondent, Kristen Holmes joins me now from outside the White House. And Kristen -- moments ago Bolton promoted now a super PAC on Twitter. And I'm wondering, is this just a political stunt or what more do you know?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Martin -- I mean look, I can't answer that. But what I can tell you is that this would be a good time for him to promote anything, as we know, because all eyes are on him and here's why.

Throughout the week, these last two weeks actually -- this public testimony Bolton emerged as this critical witness. We learned that he was in these meetings with Ukrainian leaders, that he had to end them abruptly. We learned from one aide that he actually met privately with President Trump trying to get him to release this aid to Ukraine.

No real answers on what happened in that meeting. So he has emerged as a central figure. Why hasn't he testified? Well, Democrats essentially chose time over information. We know that John Bolton from his lawyer would not come appear with just a subpoena. That if he was to be subpoenaed by Democrats, that he would then fight that in court.

[11:15:03]

HOLMES: That will take a long time. And we know Democrats, even as yesterday we discussed, they're hoping to have their side of the impeachment inquiry wrapped up by Christmas, likely to not happen if this is in court.

But these latest tweets are going to probably make them reconsider this. He continues to tease that he has more information. He essentially said that the White House locked him out of his Twitter account and then afterwards said maybe they're afraid of what I'm going to say.

So that implies that there's something more here than just talking about his PAC. Maybe he is throwing this in here because he thinks it's a good time to promote it.

But this is a man who has a lot of information that people want to hear. And there are still questions of whether or not he will testify just under a subpoena or whether or not Democrats are going to really push this. His lawyer says he has information that the House Committee just hasn't heard yet.

SAVIDGE: Well, I get you. Let me ask you this, the new information that CNN is learning the details of -- an orchestrated effort by the White House I guess to say connect Rudy Giuliani with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, right as Giuliani was pushing for an investigation of the Bidens, which is, of course, fascinating timing. What have you learned about this?

HOLMES: Well, so we know we've watched these public hearings and know that the State Department has withheld documents and it's been a central part of this entire investigation, and so has the White House for that matter. But these documents, about a hundred pages of them, were released under a court order to a nonprofit oversight group.

So that is how we have them. I just want to be clear, we didn't get them willingly from the State Department.

Essentially they show that Giuliani and Pompeo had two calls before Giuliani announced that packet of what he said was information, dirt against the Bidens, before he gave that packet to Pompeo.

Now this is interesting for two reasons. One is that second call was actually orchestrated by the White House. Giuliani calling up President Trump's personal secretary and saying that he couldn't get in touch with Pompeo. And then the White House putting the two of them in touch. So this undermines any kind of argument that the White House was unaware of what Giuliani might have been doing in Ukraine.

And the second thing is it really ties Pompeo to all of this. And we have to keep this in mind. This is coming after we learned from the ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland, that Pompeo was involved. And of course, I want to say that is alleged. This is his testimony. But that these top officials knew about this.

So this really draws Pompeo in deeper, while he has been trying himself to distance himself from all of this.

SAVIDGE: That is pretty interesting stuff. Kristen Holmes -- thank you very much.

And let's talk about this a little bit more. And I'm joined by now former federal prosecutor, Shan Wu, to do just that. Good morning to you, Shan.

SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning -- Martin. SAVIDGE: So let me start with John Bolton. Two weeks ago Bolton's

lawyer teased that, you know, he had relevant information in the impeachment inquiry. Of course, now we know he's got a book that's coming out, also a political PAC now we've learned.

Do you think we're ever going to see him actually testify?

WU: I think as of today with the tweets, I think it's a little bit more likely that he will testify. I think he's from a legal standpoint wise to hold out for the subpoena, get his ducks in a row, try and protect himself.

But really I think from a legal standpoint he's probably looking for possible immunity for his testimony and that would be something that would be of grave concern to the Trump defenders.

SAVIDGE: One of the things we have not heard from Bolton, even though he's apparently freed his Twitter account, is you may remember how Sondland, was describing a Sondland-Mulvaney, or he was describing at one point as a drug (ph) deal to others. Why isn't he denying that now, coming out forcefully?

WU: Well -- why isn't Bolton denying that right now?

SAVIDGE: Right.

WU: I think that he very much wants to keep that as his bargaining chip for how valuable his information is. I don't think he's going to walk that back. I think it's been corroborated by the other testimony, by Miss Hill's testimony as well.

So I think that's exactly what his leverage is in being able to appear in person, give that kind of information would be extremely damaging to the Trump defense. And he wants to make it clear that he has that. He's not going to come out now and attempt to sort of soft sell that or walk it back.

SAVIDGE: Right. I agree. It would be very hard for him to do so.

And I want to talk about then this new information we're getting from these documents about the phone call or phone calls between Pompeo and Rudy Giuliani that was arranged reportedly by the White House back in March. And I'm wondering, does this now really implicate President Trump in any way directly?

WU: It's very strong circumstantial evidence of his involvement -- Martin. It would be very hard to imagine that his personal assistant is going rogue and just setting up this connection between Giuliani and Pompeo. So I think it brings it right inside the Oval Office at that point.

[11:19:58]

WU: And as Kristen was reporting, it makes it really difficult to argue that the President was unaware of what was going on between Pompeo and Giuliani. I think it's very interesting for Pompeo that it required the White House's intervention to get that connection going because that sounds to me like Pompeo was wisely trying to keep his distance from Giuliani and really had to be perhaps a little bit strong armed into actually meeting with him.

SAVIDGE: And that was my -- actually my next question to you. Why is it that you need the White House directly to sort of connect these two people here? And you think at this particular point it shows that Pompeo knew that this was something he didn't necessarily want to be involved in?

WU: I would think so. I mean certainly were I his lawyer, I would be telling him to stay as far away as possible from Giuliani.

But Pompeo is an experienced man. I mean he's been around the block. And he would sense that this is a dangerous situation. I mean Giuliani is acting as the President's private attorney. He's the Secretary of State. It's going to cause some concern if he is asked by Giuliani -- hard to say no. And also if it ever comes to light, there will be questions as to why are you meeting with the President's private attorney? What exactly is he asking you to do?

So I think understandable caution on his part, but he obviously was going to have to meet with Giuliani. And the timing of that with handing over the documents, I think Giuliani was clearly pressuring for these documents to go public. Ultimately a little bit of a whimper, not a bang in terms of those documents.

SAVIDGE: One last thing before I let you go. Sources tell CNN that an upcoming report from the Justice Department's IG, the inspector general, set to be released on December 9th is now expected to show the FBI's Russia probe was launched properly but that lower level employees made mistakes.

So I'm wondering, does that report help the President in any way?

WU: I think it will help him a little bit. I mean he and his defenders are very anxious for anything to always push back on the original Mueller probe origins.

You know, I worked with Michael Horowitz at the Justice Department. He's extremely thorough. Frankly anything he looks closely at he's likely to find some warts on it.

But the real takeaway from this if the reporting so far, you know, has been accurate is that there was no bad motivation and that the origins were proper and there may have been some more technical errors at the lower level but the origins were proper and really should put to rest, because Horowitz is very independent, should put to rest any idea that there was some sort of political bias or motivation behind the origins of the Russia investigation.

SAVIDGE: Shan Wu -- always great to talk to you. Thanks for joining us this morning.

WU: Good to see you -- Martin. SAVIDGE: On the heels of the impeachment hearings this week, CNN has taken a closer look at the President's rocky relationship, I guess you could say, with the truth. Don't miss the special report "ALL THE PRESIDENT'S LIES" airing tomorrow at 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

[11:22:58]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: We continue to follow the major developments that could impact the impeachment proceedings. CNN was first to learn about new allegations that Congressman Devin Nunes, the top Republican of the House Intel Committee, remember, who led a very fierce defense of the President during the hearings, went to the Vienna last year to dig up dirt on former vice president Joe Biden.

A lawyer for Rudy Giuliani's indicted associate, that's Lev Parnas, says that his client is willing to tell Congress all about those meetings.

There's also new evidence that the White House helped coordinate Rudy Giuliani's efforts in Ukraine. New documents revealed that the White House helped set up a phone call between President Trump's personal attorney and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo back in March.

With me now is Julie Hirschfeld Davis, a congressional editor for the "New York Times" and a CNN political analyst; and Samantha Vinograd. She is a former national security advisor under President Obama and a CNN national security analyst.

Good to see you both this morning. Thank you very much for joining me.

SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Good morning.

JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Thanks for having us.

SAVIDGE: Julie -- let me start with you. if it is true that Congressman Devin Nunes, the ranking Republican on the House Intel Committee, had a meeting with a disgraced former Ukrainian prosecutor to dig up dirt on the Bidens -- the significance, if you will?

DAVIS: Well, I mean it puts -- it would put Congressman Nunes, who as you said is the top Republican on the Intelligence Committee, at the center of the situation that the committee is supposed to be investigating and that could be very problematic.

It shouldn't be a secret to anyone who's watched the hearings the last couple of weeks that Congressman Nunes believes that Biden was involved in some corruption, believes that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election, potentially, instead of Russia because he's been talking about that to defend the President's conduct in all of the hearings.

But the notion that he might have been involved himself in trying to push forward these theories and get more information about them really does put him at the center of what his own committee is supposed to be investigating. There have already been calls for an ethics complaint against him and that could have implications for the way that the inquiry goes forward.

I'm not sure it affects President Trump but it certainly does add a dimension, if it's true, to what one of the White House officials who testified last week called a domestic political errand that the President was trying to execute on.

SAVIDGE: It would add a huge dimension to all of this.

And Sam -- I'm wondering, you know, beyond just making Nunes look like a hypocrite, could there be, you know, legal implications here for -- if it's true that he had this meeting?

VINOGRAD: Well, relating this back to the President, Devin Nunes is extraordinarily close with the President. So one of my questions is whether the President knew what Devin Nunes was up to.

But clearly abuse of power is trending here. Devin Nunes is a ranking member on the Intelligence Committee. He went to Europe, as Julie just said, to conduct a domestic political errand, really to do work that is helpful to President Trump. That is not in his jurisdiction as ranking member of the Intelligence Committee.

[11:30:00]

VINOGRAD: And furthermore, the former chairman of the House Intel Committee, current ranking member, is going to meet with a corrupt Ukrainian official, a prosecutor general who was pushed out of office because he wasn't fighting corruption fast enough. That's the source of the information that Devin Nunes is using for this conspiracy expedition in Europe?

He knows better. He knows how intelligence is supposed to work and rather than relying on the FBI or the intel community here in the United States, he again is doing political work on behalf of the President.

SAVIDGE: Julie -- do you think that this is likely, this development, to change the minds of Congress or the public about this whole impeachment process?

DAVIS: I don't really think it's likely to. I mean I think what we've seen the last couple of weeks is a lot of facts coming out that sort of fill in the holes of how this entire story developed in the White House, in the State Department, in the National Security Council -- all of these efforts that the President was directing to try to get these theories out into the open, to get Ukraine to pursue them in order to discredit his political rivals.

And the fact that you have a member of Congress who, as Sam just said, is known to be a very close ally of the President pushing this as well I'm not sure is going to change the dynamic here. You have most Republicans saying that this is not an impeachable set of issues and set of actions. And I don't really think that Nunes' conduct is likely to change that calculus.

SAVIDGE: Samantha -- let me ask you about something else CNN has learned. What are the possible implications, I guess you could say, of the White House helping arrange a phone call between Giuliani, the President's personal attorney, and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo? What do you think of all of that?

VINOGRAD: Well, we understand from reporting that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo spoke with Giuliani on two occasions and took this dossier, this smear campaign against Yovanovitch and the Bidens and told Giuliani that he referred -- he was referring it for investigation to the inspector general.

It is really quite striking to me that he referred this dossier of politically-motivated material to the inspector general for review, but hasn't, for example, referred Gordon Sondland's activities to the inspector general for review. It's quite hypocritical and very clear that this was a politically-motivated mission by Pompeo.

But more broadly it shows that the Trump White House was directly facilitating Giuliani's contacts with the State Department.

Through the course of the impeachment inquiry, we've heard that Giuliani was in touch with various state officials. There's been obfuscation by the President's supporters about whether, you know, Giuliani was really acting on the President's behalf and how involved President Trump was in Giuliani's activities.

It's clear here that when the President's personal assistant connected Giuliani with Pompeo, that the President's personal team, the President's inner circle was directly involved in facilitating Giuliani's activities.

SAVIDGE: Right. It goes back to that line, everybody was in the loop.

Julie Hirschfeld Davis and Samantha Vinograd -- thank you very much.

VINOGRAD: Thank you.

DAVIS: Thanks.

SAVIDGE: Still ahead, John Bolton takes on the White House, accusing the administration of trying to silence him.

[11:33:09]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: Former national security advisor John Bolton is tweeting again one day after he said that his Twitter account was liberated from unfair White House suppression. He said, quote, "Let's get back to discussing critical national security issues confronting America. The threats are grave and growing. The presidency and control of the House and the Senate will be decided in less than one year. It is time to speak up again." CNN's Brian Todd has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He's been one of the ghosts of the impeachment hearings on a list of key figures like Mike Pompeo, Rudy Giuliani and Mick Mulvaney who didn't testify. But former National Security Adviser John Bolton could know more than all of them about the allegations that President Trump abused his power to leverage the Ukrainians to investigate Joe and Hunter Biden.

MELANIE ZANONA, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER,"POLITICO": John Bolton has been one of the most mysterious figures in this whole Ukraine saga. He was one of the biggest staring players in this whole episode with Ukraine and yet he was an offstage character almost the entire time in the impeachment probe.

TODD: But on Friday, after more than two months of silence, a tease from John Bolton. In a series of tweets and later in an encounter with reporters he accused the White House of blocking his access to his personal Twitter account.

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: They attached software to it. And Twitter unattached the software to it.

TODD: Bolton didn't explain what that meant. President Trump and the White House denied blocking or freezing Bolton's Twitter account.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, of course not. Of course not. No, I actually had a good relationship with John.

TODD: In a tweet, Bolton asked whether the White House blocked his Twitter access, quote, "out of fear of what I may say". The specter of John Bolton loomed over the impeachment hearings in accounts his top aide Fiona Hill gave of Bolton's concerns about the Trump team's pressure on Ukraine.

HILL: He then, in the course, of that discussion said that Rudy Giuliani was a hand grenade that was going to blow everyone up.

TODD: Hill said Bolton physically stiffened at a July 10th White House meeting between U.S. and Ukrainian officials when E.U. Ambassador Gordon Sondland first linked a possible Trump meeting with Ukraine's president to Ukraine investigating the Bidens. Hill said Bolton immediately walked out of the meeting and gave her an ominous directive afterwards.

HILL: Specific instruction was that I had to go to the lawyers, to John Eisenberg, our senior counsel for the National Security Council to basically say you tell Eisenberg, Ambassador John Bolton told me, that I am not part of this -- whatever drug deal that Mulvaney and Sondland are cooking up.

TODD: And American diplomat David Holmes testified that Bolton met with Ukraine's president in August and warned him what it would take to lift a hold on U.S. military aid to Ukraine. [11:40:02]

DAVID HOLMES, U.S. DIPLOMAT TO UKRAINE: It would hang on whether President Zelensky was able to quote, "favorably impress President Trump".

TODD: But Bolton could know so much more. Two weeks ago his lawyer wrote a letter to Congressional leaders saying Bolton was involved in quote, "many relevant meetings and conversations that have not yet been discussed in the testimonies thus far".

MICHAEL ISKOFF, CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT, "YAHOO NEWS": What could he have witnessed? John Bolton would have had more communications directly with President Trump than any witness we've heard from to date. So anything the President said in John Bolton's presence about the pressure campaign on the Ukrainians would be enormously significant testimony.

TODD: Including one meeting that an aide testified Bolton had with Trump in August where the aide said Bolton tried and failed to get Trump to lift the hold on U.S. military aid to Ukraine.

Among the crucial looming questions are when will John Bolton reveal what he knows about the Ukraine dealings and in what forum? Bolton's lawyer said he wouldn't testify at impeachment hearings unless a judge forced him to and he wasn't subpoenaed by House Democrats but he might have to testify at a Senate impeachment trial.

Or Bolton's first revelations could come in a new book he's writing which is due out next year, sometime before the election.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: Thank you, Brian.

And now we're learning more about a mysterious software that Twitter claims to have found on Bolton's account. A source tells CNN that Bolton's team thinks the software may have been installed to preserve Bolton's tweets in accordance with the Presidential Records Act.

However, we are told if that were the case, then the software should have been removed after Bolton left his job in September. The White House so far has not responded to our request for comment.

Next, the Navy versus the President. How a dispute over how to reprimand a convicted Navy SEAL is putting the Navy at odds with the commander in chief.

[11:41:54]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: Vice president Mike Pence making an unannounced visit to troops in Iraq today. This morning Pence and his wife Karen serving an early Thanksgiving lunch to service members at the Al Assad Air Force Base. Pence also spoke with Iraqi Prime Minister Al Mahdi by phone during his visit and he addressed the deadly anti-government protests that have been going on since October.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In March of this year, the Armed Forces of the United States and our allies captured the last inch of territory beneath the black flag of ISIS. Well done -- al Assad.

As the world watched one month ago, the Armed Forces of the United States took out the world's number one terrorist leader without one American casualty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Just yesterday three people were killed, 26 others hurt after Iraqi security forces broke up protests in Baghdad.

The head of the U.S. Navy says that the service should move forward with its administrative review of convicted Navy SEAL Eddie Gallagher in spite of objections from President Trump. A Navy spokesman tells CNN that those comments are, quote, "in line with current White House guidance".

Earlier President Trump warned the Navy in a tweet not to expel Gallagher from the SEALs. A military jury acquitted Gallagher of murdering a teenage ISIS militant in July but he was -- but was convicted, rather, of the lesser charge of posing with the body. President Trump reinstated Gallagher's rank after he was demoted, but didn't overturn his conviction.

And I want to bring in Major General James "Spider" Marks. He's a former commanding general in the U.S. Army and a CNN military analyst. Good morning to you -- sir.

MAJOR GENERAL JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good morning -- Martin. How are you?

SAVIDGE: I'm very good. If I see the President tweet and I am the head of the Navy, is that an executive order? Am I to follow it? Or do I reach out to the White House and ask for further guidance?

MARKS: The latter. You begin the conversation. You say, hey, Mr. President, let me make sure I understand you clearly. You're stating your thoughts. We, the Navy, and also the military, DOD -- remember, this is the uniform code of military justice, not simply Navy naval justice or Army justice.

So you reach back out to the executive and you say, look, we have a process. It's -- you know, it's moving along. Everything is legally reviewed at multiple steps. You have stated your opinion. We are maintaining the sanctity of this process to ensure that it's done well as much as you can maintain the sanctity of kind of an amorphous discussion of who said what. Anything that's got a criminal activity around it, as you can understand, can be cloudy.

But it's important to begin the conversation and figure out exactly what's happening. This is not a direct order from the President of the United States, yet.

SAVIDGE: Ok. Navy Secretary Richard Spencer is telling Reuters at least that the review to determine if Gallagher should keep his trident -- the Navy SEAL pin -- that it's important for good order and discipline. So would this mean the President's undermining that discipline?

MARKS: Well again, The President has not stated emphatically. He's stated in a tweet what his opinion is, so he's entered into the discussion. The Secretary of the Navy has an obligation first and foremost to maintain good order and discipline. That's the fundamental requirement and institution of UCMJ.

So that secretary needs to be able to do his job to ensure this is done fairly and properly. And if the President enters in after the decision is made by the Secretary of the Navy and that decision is altered in some way, some could argue very clearly, yes, this does undermine good order and discipline and it changes the standard. That's the problem is you end up altering the standard.

SAVIDGE: I want to ask you about something else and that's the Vice President's visit to Iraq, which we just reported. Pence didn't meet with Iraqi leaders face to face, talked to them on the phone. But he did meet with Kurdish leaders. So what's the message there?

[11:49:57]

MARKS: I think it's one of reassurance. I'm not sanguine what the discussions were between the Vice President, the National Security Council, the President and the message to convey. But it might have been an opportunity to try to wrap that potential wound a little bit and say, look, we are here very much for you.

Also bear in mind we have a much longer relationship with the Iraqis, albeit tenuous at times. It's not completely aligned.

The relationship with the Kurds was a marriage, if you will, a partnership of convenience. That convenience was defined as having been met so we broke that off.

And so I think the Vice President wants to make sure they understand, look, we can fix this thing. If there are things we can do, let's begin again. Let's begin this conversation again.

SAVIDGE: "Spider" Marks -- it's always good to get your insights. Thank you, Sir, very much.

MARKS: Thank you -- Martin. And again Happy Thanksgiving to you.

SAVIDGE: And to you -- sir. Thank you.

MARKS: Thanks. SAVIDGE: Next, Joe Biden versus Senator Lindsey Graham. Why Biden says he's embarrassed for Graham. He's now launching an investigation against him.

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SAVIDGE: We are just weeks away from the first contest of the 2020 Democratic primary and we are hearing exclusively from former vice president, Joe Biden. He's also a 2020 hopeful.

This is in a wide-ranging interview that CNN's Don Lemon did by sitting down with Biden to discuss a host of important issues from the election to the impeachment inquiry into the President.

Biden also responded to his former Senate colleague, Lindsey Graham, after Graham announced it's his intention to launch an investigation into the Biden family, something Biden said Graham should be embarrassed about.

[11:55:06]

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DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Let me ask you because Lindsey Graham now, who you've worked with, who was a friend. I know there's video of him saying you're the nicest person he's ever met. You're the greatest man.

And now he's asking the State Department for documents for you and your son. What do you say to Lindsey Graham and folks like him?

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They're asking Lindsey Graham. They have him under their thumb right now. They know he knows if truth comes out against Trump he's got a real tough road for reelection. Number one.

I am disappointed and quite frankly I'm angered by the fact. He knows me. He knows my son. He knows there's nothing to do this.

Trump is now essentially holding power over him that even the Ukrainians wouldn't yield to. Ukrainians would not yield to, quote, "investigate Biden". There's nothing to investigate about Biden or his son.

And Lindsey is about to go down in a way that I think he's going to regret his whole life.

LEMON: What do you say to him?

BIDEN: I say, Lindsey, I just -- I'm just embarrassed by what you're doing for you. I mean, my lord.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: You can see CNN's exclusive interview with Joe Biden today starting at 2 p.m. Eastern time. In the meantime, we'll be right back.

[11:56:28]

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