Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Biden Speaks To CNN On Trump; Giuliani Has Insurance; Sondland Testified Pompeo Knew About Quid Pro Quo; White House Helped Arrange Call Between Giuliani & Pompeo Following Handover Of Unproven Allegations Of Bidens; Sanders Attacks Bloomberg For Placing Over $30 Million In TV Ads. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired November 23, 2019 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: After nine witnesses and some 30 hours of public impeachment testimony, Democrat aides will spend Thanksgiving week preparing their report which they believe makes the case for the impeachment of President Trump. Barring any last-minute surprises, the House Judiciary Committee will, then, take over with hearings starting in the first week of December. A full vote on impeachment is expected by Christmas.
And then, the Republican-led Senate will decide how much time and room to give Democrats to make their case there. It could be as much as two weeks, or the GOP could cut things off sooner.
But, indeed, there is at least one surprise which CNN broke last night. The attorney for one of Rudy Giuliani's now-indicted associates says his client, Lev Parnas, is prepared to testify that the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, Republican Congressman Devin Nunes, himself, went to Vienna late last year, in hopes of digging up dirt on former Vice President Joe Biden. Parnas is ready to explain how Nunes allegedly met with the controversial former Ukrainian prosecutor, Viktor Shodkin, as part of that mission.
CNN reached out to Nunes and his communications staff for comment. He declined to respond but told the right-wing Web site, Breitbart, that it was demonstrably false.
And in the shadow of all of this, Biden and 16 Democrats are trying to win the party's nomination with the first votes less than 75 days away now. But Senate Republicans are sure to make the impeachment about the Bidens, as much as they can, if a trial begins in their chamber, as Senator Lindsey Graham is now showing with his new probe of Biden. Biden sat down with CNN's Don Lemon to discuss more about that in a wide-ranging conversation. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: I want to talk to you about impeachment.
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes.
LEMON: Do you think Democrats have made their case? Do you see an impeachable offense? BIDEN: I think it's clear on the record that Donald Trump went in --
in addition to the violations that have been uncovered relative to the Mueller report, I think Donald Trump is no doubt, he has asked foreign countries to interfere in our electoral process. Period. It's been established.
Now, Republicans are trying to make it that it has nothing to do with anything. The truth is, it's a violation of the Constitution to do that. So, I think the case has been made clear.
What the Republicans do when it gets over to the Senate or the actual trial begins, impeachment, indictment. That means an indictment. So, I believe he should be impeached and have the Senate try whether or not they are high crimes and misdemeanors that would cause him to be thrown out of office. That's a decision for them to make.
I hope they have the courage, I hope they remember, this is a moment, a moment when their record is going down in history, as to whether they played it by the rules.
LEMON: Republicans are still trying to make this about you and your son.
BIDEN: Sure, they are. But you know -- look, there's not a scintilla of evidence that I did anything wrong. They are -- the -- if you notice, what's happened is the entire spectrum of people involved, from our folks in the E.U. who are friends, to the IMF, the International Monetary Fund, to our allies, to the Ukrainians, not a single shred that I did anything other than my job and really well.
LEMON: But that has to anger you, because they keep bringing you up over and over. You say there's not a scintilla of evidence.
BIDEN: Sure, it does.
LEMON: Let me ask you, because Lindsey Graham, now, who you've worked with, who was a friend, who I know there's video of him saying, oh, you are the nicest person you've even met. You're the greatest man. And, now, he's asking the State Department for documents for you and your son. What do you say to Lindsey Graham and folks like him?
BIDEN: They're asking Lindsey Graham -- they have him under their thumb right now. They know he knows if he comes out against Trump, he's got a real tough road for re-election, number one. I am disappointed. And, frankly, I'm angered by the fact. He knows me. He knows my son. He knows there's nothing to this.
Trump is, now, essentially, holding power over him, that even the Ukrainians wouldn't yield to. The Ukrainians would not yield to, quote, "investigate Biden." There's nothing to investigate about Biden or his son. And Lindsey is about to go down in a way that I think he's going to regret his whole life.
LEMON: What do you say to him?
BIDEN: I say, Lindsey, I just -- I'm just embarrassed by what you're doing for you. I mean, my lord. And it just -- I mean --
LEMON: Have you watched these hearings?
BIDEN: I've watched some of them, because I've been on the road the whole time.
LEMON: What do you think of their defense? When you hear them questioning the witnesses and the patriotism of these people that have come forward?
BIDEN: It angers me. It angers me, especially Trump trying to intimidate witnesses while they're testifying. What kind of man is this? That, alone, is enough for him to be viewed as a pariah.
[17:05:03]
LEMON: Yes.
BIDEN: I mean, think about it.
LEMON: But it seems -- you talk about always healing the part -- and working with people --
BIDEN: Yes.
LEMON: -- on the other side. You've worked -- I don't know if this is the same party as when you were senator and when you were vice president. Can you work with this party? Can you heal this divide?
BIDEN: With Trump defeated, yes, I can. And where we can't work with them, we go out and defeat them.
LEMON: I got to ask you. This is a grueling process.
BIDEN: Yes.
LEMON: You're 77 years old. You and Bernie Sanders, the oldest. Why are you the guy? Do you have the stamina? Why are you the guy?
BIDEN: Come out and run with me, man. Come to the gym with me and lift with me. I'm -- thank God -- I know it can change in a moment. I know that. You never can take for granted your health. But I'm in great health. I'm in physical health.
And, again, I -- just, sort of, watch me. Like, I was doing a parade and there were some Trump-ites there, you know, with a -- it was a -- it was a 4th of July parade. And I said, sleepy (ph), I said, come run with me, Jack. Come run with me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CABRERA: Joining us now, S.E. Cupp, Host of CNN's "UNFILTERED" which airs right after us, at 6:00 Eastern; and former Clinton White House press secretary, Joe Lockhart. Great to have both of you here.
Joe, first of all, I just want to reiterate, CNN has no evidence that Joe Biden or his son, Hunter, did anything wrong. But, you know, the way this is looking like it's going to go is there's going to be, probably, a trial going on in the GOP-led Senate, --
JOE LOCKHART, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Right.
CABRERA: -- during these crucial campaigning months, in which Joe Biden's name is going to be coming up over and over and over again. How does Joe Biden, you know, deal with all of that? How much could it hurt him, if people are hearing his name and thinking, well, they're talking about him every day. He must have done something wrong.
LOCKHART: Yes. You know, I think it's a -- it's a mixed bag. There is -- with any time a politician, someone in their family, like, say, Ivanka, Jared, Don Jr., Eric, you know, look like or there's a perception that they're leveraging their name, that that causes people some concern.
As far as their -- this being a scandal, though, you're right. There isn't any evidence. What Joe Biden was doing was implementing American foreign policy and getting the corrupt people out. The reason I say it's a mixed bag, though, is that for Democrats, being attacked by Donald Trump is a positive. The hostility toward Donald Trump is so deep-seated. And, in some ways, what the president has done is elevated Biden and made him special. And that works to his advantage.
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I -- you know, don't think it's partisan to believe that it was inappropriate for Hunter Biden to sit on this board. I don't think you have to be a Republican to believe that. And he's going to have to confront some of those realities on the campaign trail.
CABRERA: But, again, he -- and, well, again, Hunter Biden is an adult. It's not like dad put him on the board. So, S.E., because --
CUPP: Yes, but even (INAUDIBLE) Biden's admission, --
CABRERA: -- that perception --
(CROSS TALK)
CUPP: -- he wouldn't have been there, had his dad not been vice president.
CABRERA: (INAUDIBLE.)
CUPP: He's going to have to confront that. We're allowed, as journalists, to ask that question. Was it appropriate for your son to be on this board? Again, has nothing to do with anyone doing anything wrong or illegal.
But this is the -- this is politics. And the political reality-- I mean, you mentioned the Trump kids. Every presidential candidate's families are scrutinized and their decisions are scrutinized. Some of that is just baked into the political cake. Is it unfair that he's going to be associated through this impeachment with some fictitious scandal? Yes.
CABRERA: You talk about politics.
CUPP: But I think he's a big boy. He's going to have to get -- you know, he'll handle it.
CABRERA: I mean, S.E., it's your party, though, when you talk about Lindsey Graham.
CUPP: Yes.
CABRERA: And, you know, him, you know, taking the helm here, in terms of really --
CUPP: Yes.
CABRERA: -- carrying Trump's water in all of this. But he, John McCain, Joe Biden, as a Democrat, they were, kind of, cut, as politicians, in a different time. Right?
CUPP: Yes. Joe Lieberman, they were --
CABRERA: And you don't have to take -- don't take my word for it.
CUPP: -- friends.
CABRERA: Because I want you to listen to the Lindsey Graham of past.
CUPP: Oh, yes.
CABRERA: This is him in 2015, when he was campaigning for the GOP nomination.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): If you can't admire Joe Biden as a person, then it's probably -- you've got a problem. You need to do some self-evaluation. He's the nicest person I think I've ever met in politics.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that right?
GRAHAM: He is as good a man as God ever created.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: As good a man --
CUPP: Yes.
CABRERA: -- as God ever created. And now, he's willing --
CUPP: Yes.
CABRERA: -- to go after Joe Biden on behalf of Trump, invest it -- do an investigation that even Ukraine and China --
CUPP: Yes.
CABRERA: -- balked at.
CUPP: I think Joe Biden's right that this will haunt Lindsey Graham for a long time. Anyone that remembers that era, where Lindsey Graham and Joe Biden and John McCain and Joe Lieberman were friends and even when they disagreed, they did it agreeably. They stood up for one another. They knew their characters. This is, actually, really heartbreaking to watch and disturbing to watch.
But I think Joe Biden is right. This is embarrassing for Lindsey Graham.
[17:10:00]
So, too, Jeff Sessions. I mean, they're -- you know, you can cast a wide net, when it comes to the total emasculation of the GOP by Donald Trump. It's embarrassing. And they should be embarrassed.
LOCKHART: Listen, I think Lindsey Graham has a history here. He's a political parasite. In 1998, he wanted to be known among the leadership, and he did Tom Delay's dirty work. He got over to the Senate, and he decided he wanted to be a moderate. And he lived off of John McCain's reputation.
Now, he's got another tough re-election. He's going to be Donald Trump's guy. It says a lot about -- I think he was being genuine, when he was talking about Joe Biden.
CUPP: He was.
LOCKHART: It's -- but it says a lot about Lindsey Graham, that, at this point, you know, you just can't trust anything he says.
CABRERA: Let's talk about another one of the president's men, Rudy Giuliani. A lot of the impeachment hearing testimony led to him, right. Here he was today, and he had a message for his boss.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PERSONAL ATTORNEY: You can assume that I talk to him early and often.
ED HENRY, ANCHOR, FOX NEWS: Yes.
GIULIANI: And have a very, very good relationship with him and all of these comments which are totally insulting.
HENRY: Yes.
GIULIANI: I mean, I've seen -- I've seen things written like, he's going throw me under the bus.
HENRY: Right. GIULIANI: When they say that, I say, he isn't, but I have insurance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Giuliani just went on social media to say he was being sarcastic there. But, hey, this was not the first time that he has --
CUPP: Yes.
CABRERA: -- said, I've got insurance. And, again, here he is on the president's favorite network. Do you think Donald Trump was laughing at that, Joe?
LOCKHART: No, I don't think he was at all. And I think, you know, they're sending messages to each other. And, you know, it's -- they are akin in their lack of character, Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump. And I think both of them now have a well-earned reputation for being willing to throw anyone under the bus. And I have no doubt he has insurance, and I have no doubt that Donald Trump is aware of that and will take that into consideration.
CABRERA: It is really interesting to me that Donald Trump has not tried to distance himself from Giuliani, --
CUPP: Oh, it's coming.
CABRERA: -- like he has done with Sondland, for example, this past week.
CUPP: It's coming. You know, I think the writing on the wall has been clear that Rudy Giuliani will be a fall guy in some capacity. I don't even know if he has insurance. I mean, in reality television, we call this receipts. I don't know if he actually has receipts and insurance. Because if he were smart enough to, sort of, collect all of that, I don't think he would have found himself in this current mess.
I mean, he has not been smart, as he's gone about broadcasting what he's been doing and getting himself into these messes. You know, to the point where he's been, you know, filing things away in the case that this comes back to bite him. I don't know.
CABRERA: I think to say something like that, and given what happened to the president's other, former personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani's predecessor you could call him, Michael Cohen, --
CUPP: Michael Cohen. Yes.
CABRERA: Who's sitting now in prison.
CUPP: Yes.
CABRERA: Giuliani doesn't seem worried.
LOCKHART: Well, you know, again, I don't think he's the mastermind of some international complicated conspiracy. CUPP: No.
LOCKHART: But I do think he was doing the president's dirty work at the direction of the president.
CUPP: Yes.
LOCKHART: And if all he does is says, here's what I've been up to the last six months, at the direction of the president, that's a big problem for the president.
CABRERA: All right, Joe Lockhart, S.E. Cupp, thank you both.
CUPP: Yes.
CABRERA: Good to see you. And S.E. Cupp's show, "UNFILTERED," starts in just under an hour right here on CNN. Make sure you stay with us for that.
As Washington is split down partisan lines on this issue of impeachment, we'll hear from voters in one key swing state what they make of this week's stunning revelations.
Plus, former Trump national security adviser, John Bolton, says he is now liberated from White House suppression and making big claims on Twitter, but will he testify on Capitol Hill?
And, tonight, questions surrounding Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and his involvement in the Ukraine scandal. Details ahead.
[17:14:52]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: Former national security adviser, John Bolton, has officially resurfaced on Twitter since stepping down from his position in September. And he's making waves, to say the least. Bolton is accusing the White House of blocking access to his personal account and also teasing a new project he's been working on, a PAC (ph).
CNN's White House Correspondent, Jeremy Diamond joins us now. Jeremy, how has the White House responded to Bolton's allegations?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, after a two-month hiatus on Twitter, following his resignation or firing, depending on who you ask, as national security adviser, John Bolton is back. And now, he is accusing the White House of having suppressed his access to that Twitter account, saying that they blocked him from accessing it after he left the White House.
The White House, though, is disputing that claim. The president, himself, said, no, of course not, when he was asked whether or not he had or his White House had blocked John Bolton's access to the Twitter account. And listen to this explanation from the White House press secretary, Stephanie Grisham.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANIE GRISHAM, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I don't know a whole lot about it. But, sometimes -- I'll use my father as an example, somebody who is of an advanced age may not understand that all you have to do is contact Twitter and reset your password if you've forgotten it. So, I'll just leave it at that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIAMOND: Ultimately, it was by directly contacting Twitter that Bolton was able to gain access to his account. But he also said that Twitter told him that some kind of software had been attached to his Twitter account. It's not clear if that may be something in relation to preserving records of those tweets in according with the Presidential Records Act.
But the big question, though, is how John Bolton will use his Twitter account. Of course, we know that John Bolton, his lawyer, has teased the fact that Bolton knows more about this Ukraine scandal than is already publicly out there. However, a source is telling CNN that Bolton will not be using his Twitter account to reveal more information about that issue -- Ana.
CABRERA: Jeremy, a different story here. There are new signs tensions are growing between the president and his defense community. At the center of it all is Navy SEAL Eddie Gallagher. What can you tell us?
DIAMOND: Well, we know, Ana, that the president has already previously intervened in the case of Navy SEAL Eddie Gallagher. And earlier this week, he threatened to do so, once again, amid reports that the Navy was preparing to, essentially, kick Eddie Gallagher out of the Navy SEALs. The president tweeted on Friday that the Navy will not be taking away his trident, which is a sign of his membership in the SEALs.
[17:20:00]
We're now learning, according to an administration official, that there has been a lot of concern among military and defense officials, to the point that they actually conveyed those concerns to the White House. That is that the defense secretary, Mark Esper, and the chairman of the joint chiefs, Mark Millie, conveyed concerns to the White House, in the last 48 hours since the president made that tweet.
We also know that there's this report from "The New York Times" that the Navy secretary has actually threatened to resign over this issue, if the president intervenes. He actually denied that report today. He said, contrary to popular belief, that he is still here. I did not threaten to resign. And he also said he's here to talk about external threats. And he said, Eddie Gallagher is not one of them -- Ana.
CABRERA: All right, Jeremy Diamond at the White House for us. Thank you.
What is the impact of President Trump's lies? Join Jake Tapper as he investigates the truth. CNN's special report, "ALL THE PRESIDENT'S LIES," airs tomorrow night at 9:00 here on CNN.
We have heard stunning testimony, over the past couple of weeks, in the impeachment inquiry. Some witnesses implicating top White House officials, including the president. So, how are voters responding?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN DIBONAVENTURA: It's a big show and I think we're just wasting taxpayers' money.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just think you have to hold the president to a higher standard. And I think it doesn't look good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[17:21:23]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: Thursday, the House wrapped up two weeks of marathon public hearings for its impeachment inquiry into President Trump. While politicians in the nation's capital decide what happens next and when, CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich headed to Pennsylvania, a state that went for Trump in 2016. And she asked those all-important suburban voters, in particular, outside Philadelphia where they stand on impeachment.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And good morning, everybody. Talk a little politics. Want to know what you think about the impeachment hearings.
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): The morning rush to Philadelphia with impeachment on the mind.
STEPHEN DIBONAVENTURA: It's a big show. And I think we're just wasting taxpayers' money.
YURKEVICH: No matter their political party, voters here in the suburbs are paying attention. From the airwaves, --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be thrown out in any courtroom, put it that way.
DOUG STIRLING, HOST, WCHE RADIO: Nothing there there, huh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
YURKEVICH: To the railways.
LINTON STABLES: I'm totally convinced that he's committed a crime.
YURKEVICH: A narrow victory in Pennsylvania helped deliver the White House to Donald Trump in 2016. Democrats here now on offense, with strong voter turnout in local elections earlier this month, helping them score victories in three suburban Philadelphia counties.
STIRLING: Now that we are a thoroughly blue county for the first time in 150 years, that may portend trouble for the president next year.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, there we go.
YURKEVICH: Jane Young and her friends have been glued to the hearings for the past two weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For the opening statements.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're not talking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, that's not going to happen. You invited the wrong person.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shh.
YURKEVICH: At her watch party in Delaware County, four Democrats and one independent, all believe the president has committed a crime.
ADRIAN MILLER: And we're talking about acceptance of law and what, we're determining what our laws are now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
MILLER: So, are we going to accept it, that this is practice now? Or are we not going to accept this is practice now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that we are ahead of the Congressional hearings. We believed it before they walked in the room and produced the witnesses.
YURKEVICH: Twenty-five miles away in Chester County, Ken Tesh watches the hearings every morning.
KEN TESH: I think a defining moment for our republic.
YURKEVICH: While his wife, Sandi, is more focused on the morning crossword.
SANDI TESH: You know, whatever's going on that is -- you know, gets him stirred up, I'm not going to let myself spend energy on it.
YURKEVICH: Ken, a Republican-turned Democrat, wants to see Trump removed from office, but he doesn't think it'll happen.
KEN TESH: And the longer it goes on, the more names you've got keep track of. And who was this and who said what. And it, sort of, loses its urgency I think.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
YURKEVICH: Across town, Alexo and Valerie Bell.
VALERIE BELL: It's not supposed to be a few people picking the leaders of the country.
ALEXO BELL: Right. YURKEVICH (voice-over): Alexo, a staunch Trump supporter. His wife, Valerie, an independent who's not a fan of the president.
(on camera): Have you discussed the impeachment inquiry?
ALEXO BELL: I know where she's stands, you know what I mean? She would like to see him get the boot, you know? And I wouldn't. So, it's kind of a moot point to even talk about it.
YURKEVICH (voice-over): While respecting each other's opinions is key to their marriage, there's no love lost on their distinct views on impeachment.
ALEXO BELL: I think the Democrats are grasping at straws wherever they can.
VALERIE BELL: I just think you have to hold the president to a higher standard. And I think it doesn't look good. It doesn't have good optics.
YURKEVICH (on camera): The vast majority of voters we spoke to here in Pennsylvania say they don't think the president will be impeached, but that the 2020 election will determine his fate. But we only found one voter here who say they know who they'll be voting for. It's a Republican who says they'll be voting for President Trump. Everyone else still very much undecided. Vanessa Yurkevich, CNN, Swarthmore, Pennsylvania.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CABRERA: A look inside a smear campaign. New documents revealing details about phone calls between Rudy Giuliani and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. That occurred as Giuliani handed over documents with unproven claims about the Bidens. So, what does that mean for Mike Pompeo?
[17:29:20]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:33:22]
CABRERA: In two weeks of a public impeachment inquiry hearings, we saw several ambassadors and State Department officials on Capitol Hill under oath.
But so far, the secretary of state himself, Mike Pompeo, has declined to speak at length about what he saw and heard in President Trump's dealings with the president of Ukraine.
One of Pompeo's own officials in his testimony threw some light on the secretary of state's role.
CNN's Kylie Atwood has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER (voice-over): It's a subject the secretary of state has repeatedly dismissed.
MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: Even while all this noise is going on, you all are fixated on this.
I'm not going to get into the issues surrounding the Democratic impeachment inquiry.
ATWOOD: But now one of his own ambassadors has placed him squarely in the middle of the story.
GORDON SONDLAND, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE E.U.: Everyone was in the loop.
ATWOOD: Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the E.U., told lawmakers Pompeo knew about the quid pro quo with Ukraine and claimed he did nothing to stop it.
SONDLAND: We kept the leadership of the State Department and the NSC informed of our activities and that included communications with Secretary of State Pompeo.
ATWOOD: Sondland came with proof, multiple emails he sent to Pompeo. In one, he laid out a plan to get President Zelensky to commit, quote, "on those issues of importance to POTUS and the U.S.," meaning investigations that would politically benefit President Trump.
Sondland hoped, he told Pompeo, that this proposal could, quote, "break the logjam."
Pompeo replied, "Yes."
SONDLAND: -- and the White House.
ATWOOD: While Sondland delivered testimony in Washington, Pompeo was in Brussels, expressing disinterest.
[17:35:02]
POMPEO: I didn't see a single thing today. I was working. Sounds like you may not have been.
ATWOOD: A State Department spokesperson put out a statement, denying Sondland's allegations. "Gordon Sondland never told Secretary Pompeo that he believed the president was linking aid to investigations of political opponents. Any suggestions to the contrary is flat-out false."
But in October, Pompeo admitted he was listening in on the now- infamous Trump/Zelensky call on July 25th, where Trump made that ask.
Pompeo, an ardent defender of President Trump, saw nothing wrong with that call and has alleged election interference by former Vice President Joe Biden based on no evidence. POMPEO: America cannot have our elections interfered with. And if that's what took place there, if there was that activity engaged in by Vice President Biden, we need to know.
ATWOOD: Last month, when asked about holding up foreign assistance for a political initiative, the exact thing that Sondland believes Pompeo knew about, Pompeo said this.
POMPEO: I never saw that in the decision-making process that I was a part of.
ATWOOD: Pompeo has made the decision not to defend career foreign service officers by name, even after Trump smeared Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch with a tweet erroneously claiming that everywhere she went turned bad.
POMPEO: I don't have anything to say. I'll defer to the White House about particular statements and the like.
ATWOOD: One possible off-ramp for Pompeo --
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (voice-over): They love him in Kansas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CABRERA: Our national security reporter, Kylie Atwood there.
Also today, more information emerging about what Secretary of State Mike Pompeo knew and when. Documents released late last night by the State Department revealed that the White House helped arrange a phone call between Pompeo and the president's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani.
Now the timing is important because this phone call happened the day after Giuliani handed over to the State Department a packet of information about Joe Biden and his son, Hunter, claims that were unproven.
CNN Political and National Security Analyst, David Sanger, is with me. He also covers national security for the "New York Times."
David, Mike Pompeo had previously distanced himself from that info handed over by Rudy Giuliani. How does this change his account of things?
DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, the first thing it does is it establishes that he received the data and presumably that's what they were talking about. The documents that got turned over by the State Department did not indicate the content of the call, only that the call happened.
But if you go and look at what we know now versus a week ago, basically the secretary was informed by e-mail, phone calls, and so forth, at each of the major steps along the way. And I think you could fairly say that he was aware of and may have
actually aided in this effort to link the aid that went to -- that was suspended to Ukraine with whatever it was that President Zelensky was going to launch in the way of investigations.
His other side evidence, as well, in Greece earlier this fall, the secretary actually mentioned the Ukraine theory that the servers were in Ukraine himself even though, as CIA director a year and a half ago, he said this all came from Russia.
CABRERA: Right. So why do you think that Pompeo has largely been able to fly under the radar in the past eight weeks of impeachment investigation, that he's been able to kind of escape really answering the tough questions? Escape the spotlight?
SANGER: By great message control when he's out talking to us and by declining to turn over documents or testify in front of the committees.
I think this past week made it tougher for him to hold on to that position. You saw Gordon Sondland who was the -- is the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, say that everyone was in the loop including Secretary Pompeo, that he talked to him frequently and told him what he was up to.
We saw a that's right went from the acting ambassador to the Ukraine, Bill Taylor, to Secretary Pompeo at the end of august saying that it was crazy to hold up the military aid just to get a -- a domestic political agenda under way here.
So there's very little question after the testimony that the secretary knew. They question is, what did he do with the information.
CABRERA: What did he do with the concerns that were flagged?
Let's talk about who did meddle in the election. The president's own former Russia expert in her testimony, very firmly urged members of the Intelligence Committee to stop giving weight to this unsupported theory that Ukraine played a part in the election meddling. And yet Republicans wouldn't have it. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[17:40:09]
REP. DEVIN NUNES (R-CA): It's entirely possible for two separate nations to engage in election meddling at the same time.
REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): We all know that Russia meddled in the election, but that's not to say Ukraine didn't try to influence the election.
REP. SCOTT PERRY (R-PA): Why is as long as Russia does it is it mutually exclusive only to Russia? Russia is doing it, but other countries are, as well. REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): And we know that Russia's involved in our
elections, but we have credible information that Ukraine was meddling and engaged.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: And again, for our viewers, there's no credible information that Ukraine was doing what Russia was doing in 2016.
Now listen to Congressman Denny Heck. He, too, sits on the Intelligence Committee and says it's widely known among he and his colleagues, including the Republicans in Congress, that it was Russia, and Russia only. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This briefing that the "New York Times" report and CNN reporting that members of Congress were briefed by the Intelligence Committee, that this is a Russian effort to blame Ukraine. Were you aware of these intelligence briefings?
REP. DENNY HECK (D-WA): Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Yes. He was aware.
So do you think that Republicans have in effect fallen into Putin's trap here?
SANGER: Well not only Republicans have but the president himself. He went on "FOX and Friends" on Friday morning, the day after Fiona Hill had said that this was a completely unsupported theory, and he repeated the theory.
And you know, if he's looking for the server, at least the primary server, there were probably more than 100 that -- that the Democratic National Committee rented some space on.
But the primary server we saw in the basement of the Democratic National Committee in December of 2018. It was on exhibit next to a filing cabinet that had been broken into in the Watergate break-in. So there's not a lot of mystery about where the server is.
The president has said that CrowdStrike was owned by a Ukrainian. It's not. It was founded by two people, one of whom was born in Moscow and emigrated here as a young boy.
So there's a lot of smoke being thrown up here. And this doesn't hold water.
The real evidence is that, in July -- sorry, June of 2018, the Justice Department indicted 12 Russian GRU officers and other Russians for hacking into the DNC and similar activity, the Internet Research Agency activity. And if you go through that indictment, there's not a mention of Ukraine. CABRERA: Such a good point.
Thank you for bringing us the facts. And thank you for staying up so late for us where you are. We appreciate it.
SANGER: Thank you.
CABRERA: David Sanger, thank you.
Tentative 2020 contender, former Mayor Michael Bloomberg, is making a massive television ad buy ahead of his possible run. One fellow candidate says he is disgusted. But should Dems be welcoming the spend against Trump? We'll discuss ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:47:03]
CABRERA: What would you do if you had more than $50 billion in personal wealth? Michael Bloomberg is spending at least $37 million of his dollars on television advertising over the next two weeks.
That's more than what the entire Democratic field has spent in the race so far, excluding billionaire, Tom Steyer. And the surest signal yet that the former New York City mayor plans to formally enter the race for the Democratic presidential nomination.
Bernie Sanders says he's disgusted by this idea and accuses Bloomberg of trying to buy the election.
I want to bring in Van Jones.
And we'll talk about "THE VAN JONES SHOW," at 7:00 with Deval Patrick and Jane Fonda in a second.
First, Van, should the Democrats welcome Bloomberg's billions?
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR & CNN HOST, "VAN JONES SHOW": Well, that's tough to say that they should. Here's reality -- there's still I think some hunger, some concern in the Democratic Party, do we have somebody that can beat Donald Trump?
If you're a progressive, you love Warren, you love Bernie Sanders, you finally got two extraordinary progressives in the race. People don't know can they beat Bernie Sanders. A bunch of moderates in the race, but none of them have really caught fire. You know, bind's hanging on in there. There's some disquiet.
But can Bloomberg get through this primary? You know, his track record, when it came to Stop and Frisk, when it came to the African- American community, is very, very bad. So you can't go to the black part of this party, and the progressives can't stand the idea of a moderate billionaire.
It's kind of like, what are you doing -- it's very, very difficult and becomes yet another distraction. I see Deval Patrick very percent_-_ he does have a natural home in
the Democratic Party as -- as has developed. At least he's got the African-American card to play. Plus, he has achieved things when it comes to health care. Let's be part of the conversation --
(CROSSTALK)
CABRERA: OK. Hold your thought. I want to play a clip from your conversation with Deval Patrick, which airs tonight at 7:00 on the "VAN JONES SHOW."
Let's watch a preview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: You know, Obama gave a little bit of a warning I think to Democrats saying, you know what, you can get a little too activist, a little too Twitter focused. Do you think that there's a danger for this party in that regard? How do you feel Obama's most recent kind of cautionary note --
DEVAL PATRICK (D), FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, the last thing I'm going to do is be a pundit on my friend, the former president.
Look, I am -- I'm excited that the party is -- feels to me sort of fearless about big ideas. You remember in the, I think it was in the 2012 convention when I had a couple of minutes at the podium, one of my points was that Democrats needed to grow a backbone and stand up for what we believe. I think that's important.
As we've grown that backbone, I don't think it means we have to, you know, cut off our ears.
We have to be open to the idea that others have something to contribute to how we accomplish those good ideas because if you want change to last, you have including people who may not agree with you. And that's been my experience in the public, private sector. And I don't think the range of experience is, can be said of any of the other candidates.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[17:50:22]
CABRERA: So, Van, your program tonight will be an introduction for a lot of people who don't know who Deval Patrick is. It's a crowded 2020 field but there was plenty of room in Morehouse College. Patrick ended up cancelling an event after two people showed up. What does that really tell you?
JONES: He's got a long way to go to introduce himself.
A couple of things going on here. I don't think that the moderate wing of the party feels like it has a champion yet. Again, Biden is doing a good job kind of holding down the black vote. The fundraising numbers are not there. You don't see people lining up to volunteer. His events are also weak.
That's why you're seeing somebody like a Deval Patrick, who isn't a household name, but a beloved governor of Massachusetts, who had a real strong track record working with business as a progressive, saying, I should get in there.
That's also what's with Bloomberg. I think Bloomberg trying to buy his way through is really going to actually energize the progressive base against him in a way that Deval Patrick won't like him.
CABRERA: Van Jones, thank you.
Make sure you watch tonight at 7:00 Eastern. Van Jones sits down with Deval Patrick, as well as actress, Jane Fonda, right here on CNN.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:55:24]
CABRERA: Domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to women. Many of these women have pets they love and don't want to leave them behind if they flee abuse. And only 3 percent of domestic violence shelters accept animals. One of this year's top-10 "CNN Heroes" came up with a groundbreaking solution keeping women and their pets together. Meet Stacy Alonzo.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BARKING)
STACI ALONZO, CNN HERO: Noah's Animal House is built right on the campus of the women's shelters.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good boy.
ALONZO: So that women fleeing an abusive relationship don't have to choose between leaving and leaving their pets behind.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
ALONZO: We have had clients from 21 states. They're driving thousands of miles. That tells you the need and that tells you the power of the relationship between the woman and the pet.
When you watch the woman come through the door and then they see their pet --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I missed you.
ALONZO: -- everything's right in the world for a little while.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Stacy housed more than 1500 animals for women who traveled from all over the country to find safety. Go to CNNheroes.com to vote for hero of the year or any of your top-10 heroes.
CABRERA: I'm Ana Cabrera, in New York.
Join me at 8:00 Eastern tonight when I'll be joined by Andrew Yang. He's angry at how he's being covered. And you may be surprised with who he wants an apology from. Any questions you want Andrew Yang to answer, tweet me at @anacabrera.
First, it's "S.E. CUPP UNFILTERED" right after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
