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Justice Ginsburg Hospitalized; Giuliani In Fox Interview; Biden Speaks With CNN; Biden To Senator Graham: "I'm Embarrassed By What You're Doing"; Graham Now Going After Biden Despite Prior Emotional Praise; Yang Demands Apology From MSNBC; Dems Battle For Spotlight Amid Impeachment Hearings. Aired 8-9 ET

Aired November 23, 2019 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Good evening, you are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

We begin with breaking news. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg is in the hospital tonight. We've learned she was admitted late Friday to John Hopkins hospital in Baltimore and we just have a few details about her condition. A statement from the court only says that Justice Ginsburg experienced chills and a fever, and she was transferred to John Hopkins from a hospital in Washington.

Let's get right out to our Supreme Court Reporter Ariane de Vogue. Orion, Justice Ginsburg is 86 years old. She missed oral arguments 10 days ago because she was sick. What are you hearing about her condition and how concerned are people close to her?

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: Right. A four-time cancer survivor, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. As you said, yesterday afternoon, she started feeling chills and a fever. She went on her own to the local hospital. But once she got there, the doctors thought that she should be transported to Baltimore, about a half hour away, because that's where her physicians are who have treated her in the past.

She got there. They treated her for what they think is an infection, and they gave her antibiotics. And then, they say in this court statement that her symptoms abated. And they say that maybe even she could be released as soon as tomorrow but that's not clear.

Worth noting, Ana, she was in court yesterday. And she participated in a closed-door conference with the justices. And that was an important closed-door conference, because we think that they discussed President Trump's emergency petition to block his financial records. That's an ongoing dispute. But it was after that that she began to feel ill and went to the hospital. The court right now is on a brief recess. They're not sitting. They won't take the bench this week.

And as you said earlier in the month, she did miss one day of oral arguments. She had the stomach flu. But I have to say, I have been watching her carefully, since the beginning of this term. And she has been such an active participant. She's often the first one asking questions and she follows up. And, keep in mind now, the court has been hearing big cases, DACA, LGBT rights. So, we're right in the middle of a really momentous term.

CABRERA: And this is the latest now in a series of medical problems she has been experiencing as of late. She's also recently been on a speaking tour. Tell us more about that.

DE VOGUE: It's unbelievable. If you look at it, in August, she was treated for pancreatic cancer. Last term, it was lung cancer. In 2009, a bout of pancreatic cancer. And, in 1999, a colon cancer.

But moving back to August, after she had been treated for the pancreatic cancer, and before this big term was start -- was about to begin, she went on this multi-state speaking tour. And she -- basically, she was asked about it. And she said, I don't like to stay at home and feel sorry for myself. I feel fine. And so, she gave these long talks which is pretty extraordinary.

She has said, in the past, that she will serve as long as she's able. She said, at her age, sometimes that's year by year. And other times, she said she'll serve until she's 90. So, this is a very strong woman who's had frail health at times. But, boy, she's a strong woman.

CABRERA: She's been through a lot. The epitome of resilience. Ariane de Vogue, thank you. We know you will keep us posted on her health. We wish her the best.

DE VOGUE: Thank you.

CABRERA: After two weeks now of stunning public testimony in these impeachment inquiries, new bombshells. They involve the president's lawyer, Rudy Giuliani. They involve one of the president's staunchest defenders in the House, Congressman Devin Nunes. They involve a man named Lev Parnas, a Giuliani associate who was arrested while trying to leave the country last month.

And all of it involves Ukraine. Today, Giuliani went on the offensive, making it clear he won't be anyone's scapegoat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PERSONAL ATTORNEY: You can assume that I talk to him early and often.

ED HENRY, ANCHOR, FOX NEWS: Yes.

GIULIANI: And have a very, very good relationship with him and all of these comments which are totally insulting.

HENRY: Yes.

GIULIANI: I mean, I've seen -- I've seen things written like, he's going throw me under the bus.

HENRY: Right.

GIULIANI: When they say that, I say, he isn't, but I have insurance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: In a social media post Giuliani later said he was being sarcastic when he made that comment. But now to Devin Nunes. Point man for House Republicans during the impeachment proceedings. As Ranking Member of the Intelligence Committee, Nunes has repeatedly, and sometimes angrily, sparred with witnesses. But there are new allegations that Nunes, himself, traveled to Vienna last year to dig up dirt on Joe Biden. Allegations, Nunes says, are demonstrably false.

CNN's Senior Reporter, Vicky Ward is joining us now. Vicki, you have much of this exclusive new reporting, this breaking news, this hour.

[20:05:00]

Tell us more about what you've learned. Exactly what Devin Nunes the Congressman, the chairman -- rather ranking member in the House Intel Committee, is alleged to have done, as it pertains to this Ukraine scandal and the impeachment inquiry?

VICKY WARD, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Right, Ana. So, Devin Nunes went to Vienna last December to meet with former disgraced Ukraine prosecutor, Viktor Shokin. Viktor Shokin is the man who claims he had evidence of corruption by Joe Biden.

Now, remember, he has an ax to grind against Joe Biden, because Joe Biden, along with western leaders, had him fired in 2016, basically for not doing his job. After that meeting, Devin Nunes returns and he and an aide get in touch with Lev Parnas, Rudy Giuliani's business associate, and also the guy that Rudy has enlisted to help him with his investigations in finding dirt on Joe -- on the Bidens in Ukraine. And this other theory that, you know, Ukraine interfered somehow in our election which has been widely debunked.

Nunes and an associate enlist Parnas to help them. They ask Parnas who, remember, speaks Russian, Ana, to make calls for them, to introduce them to Ukrainian investigators who they think might have knowledge and evidence on the Bidens. And Parnas even sits in on the phone calls that a Nunes aide makes with two Ukrainian prosecutors.

CABRERA: Now, this was last year is when the alleged meeting took place, right?

WARD: That meeting is in December and the timing of it is very important and significant because it takes place deliberately at the beginning of December, when the midterms had happened. The Republicans knew they'd lost the House, but before the Democrats actually took over in the new session. And the significance of that is that Devin Nunes knew he would not have to disclose the details of the trip.

The only thing that is in the congressional record is that he, and three of his aides, took a trip on the taxpayers' dime to Europe. And we know that it was deliberate because his aide, a man called Derek Harvey, told Lev Parnas, whose lawyer is talking to us, and says that Lev Parnas would like to say all of this to Congress.

CABRERA: And so, is there any reason to question Parnas's account? Is there evidence to back up his claim, given now we have, you know, Nunes just denying it all together?

WARD: Well, we do know because we've reported, remember, that Lev Parnas uses social media. There have been many photographs that have put him in rooms with the president. We reported last week, they were at the White House together having a secret meeting, while there was a Hanukah party going on.

When Lev Parnas was arrested, it was reported that all his electronic devices were taken and now in the possession of the government. Remember, he is facing indictment by the southern district of New York. His attorney has told me that he would not be making these claims were he not able to back them up with text messages, videos, photographs that are currently in the possession of the government.

CABRERA: So, it sounds like he wants to testify. He wants to talk about this. Why hasn't he?

WARD: He's been -- well, he has been subpoenaed. His lawyer wants him, basically, to -- wants Congress to give him immunity so that he can speak freely, without it, basically, affecting his Fifth Amendment rights.

CABRERA: OK. So, we'll see. There is, obviously, much more to this reporting. Thank you very much.

WARD: Yes.

CABRERA: Now, for the past two weeks, CNN approached Devin Nunes on two occasions and reached out to his communications staff to get comment for this story. He declined.

Joining us now with more on the constantly evolving story here, CNN's Senior Political Analyst Ryan Lizza. He's also Politico's chief Washington correspondent. Ryan, in the interests of transparency, first, we need to point out that you and "Esquire" magazine are currently being sued by Devin Nunes for a piece you wrote a year ago, digging into why Nunes' family moved their California dairy business to Iowa. Nunes says he's going to sue CNN, too, over these Vienna allegations, telling a right-wing Web site that the entire report is, quote, "demonstrably false." Just need to put that out here.

So, Ryan, I want to get, first, your response to Vicky Ward's reporting.

RYAN LIZZA, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: By the end of this, he'll have sued just about anyone that's ever written about him. You know, I think it's fascinating. I mean, look, the problem with Parnas, the more that he can document this, right, obviously the better. He's clearly interested in telling a story. [20:10:02]

And he's, also, clearly interested in gaining some kind of immunity. Right? So, you know, the fact that there is some corroborating evidence that Nunes was, according to Vicky's reporting, in Europe at the time, right, and that, as far as I've seen, he has -- Nunes has not specifically addressed what Parnas's allegation is here. He, sort of, offered this, like, blanket, oh, it's false.

But without really detailing what he says is false, specifically what is inaccurate. And that's something Nunes does with just about anyone that writes about him. He dismisses it all out of hand without actually addressing the substance of what reporters actually report.

So, we have to hear from Parnas. And I think we have to hear from Nunes. And get all of the -- their two stories ventilated.

CABRERA: But if the allegations are true, Nunes continues to serve in his role on the House Intel Committee as the ranking member and he never disclosed any of this.

LIZZA: Yes.

CABRERA: Even though there are ongoing impeachment hearings in which he is questioning witnesses --

LIZZA: Yes.

CABRERA: -- and basically calling what they're saying -- saying what they are saying is not, you know, to be believed.

LIZZA: Yes. I mean, if it's true, I mean, that means that he sat in those hearings and repeatedly alleged, falsely I might add, that the chairman of the committee, Adam Schiff, met with the whistle-blower when he did not. And aired that false allegation repeatedly, as did other Republicans on the committee. And never disclosed that he, himself, was involved in this caper, allegedly, to meet with this disgraced prosecutor, Shokin, who has been shown was, you know, sort of, making up stories about Joe Biden.

Now, it might -- there might be nothing wrong with Nunes going and meeting with this guy. Right? Congressmen do that all the time. But to not disclose it in an Intelligence Committee investigation of that subject matter is really unusual. And it might -- there -- it might lead to an ethics committee investigation against Nunes.

And, look, he's been through this before. He had to recuse himself from the Russia investigation --

CABRERA: Right.

LIZZA: -- when he was chairman of that committee, before the Democrats took over the House, because there was an ethics committee investigation. But I believe he was cleared, ultimately, in that investigation. So, he knows, you know, the, sort of, sensitivity of what you personally do and how that can affect your business on that committee and whether you need to recuse yourself or not. So, --

CABRERA: Meantime, let me ask you about Rudy Giuliani. Because, as you heard earlier, --

LIZZA: Yes.

CABRERA: -- he says he has insurance, when asked if he's worried about Trump throwing him under the bus. Tonight, Giuliani says he was just being sarcastic. Far from being a joke, though. Would Rudy Giuliani have any expectation of loyalty from Trump? I mean, look what happened to Michael Cohen and Jeff Sessions.

LIZZA: Manafort. I mean, a lot of people who have worked for Trump at a pretty high level, you know, and ended up under the bus. So, no. I think it's very interesting that he's so aggressively backtracking from this insurance line. He said it more than once.

And then, all -- and I do wonder if someone -- you know, why is it that he suddenly had to retreat from that? Because it was very clear what he was saying. I mean, there's no ambiguity when you say, I have insurance. You know, the president can't throw me under the bus. You know, we all know what he meant. And for him to retreat, I think, is very interesting. And why did he -- why did he think that that was, suddenly, not a smart thing to have out there?

And, look, you know, Giuliani -- obviously, this guy, Parnas, was -- you know, was an associate of his. And he's also tried to throw some cold water on Parnas's activity. Tried to argue that Parnas is just, kind of, you know, puffing himself up. Right? So, you know, the problem with Giuliani, Parnas and Nunes, frankly, is they all have a history of saying things that are not true. And that makes it a little bit difficult, as an outsider, to, really, you know, judge, you know, where the facts are here.

But, clearly, Nunes has to tell his side of the story on the record and in full, and hopefully will get the same account from Parnas which is what his lawyer wants him to do.

CABRERA: Well, I think, at the end of the night tonight, we're left with more questions than answers, showing there is much more to this investigation.

LIZZA: Yes.

CABRERA: Ryan Lizza, thank you very much for being there --

LIZZA: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: -- and helping us sort it out.

Hear what some of the military's top officials are saying tonight, after President Trump tweeted he won't allow them to oust a Navy SEAL from their elite force. That's next.

Plus, back in April, so long ago, Joe Biden wasn't even running.

[20:15:02]

I hosted a town hall, here on CNN with a, then, virtual unknown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW YANG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When I was in Iowa, someone came up to me and said he cannot wait to see me debate Donald Trump, because I'm laser focused on the problems that got him elected but I'm his polar opposite. And what I've been saying is the opposite of Donald Trump is an Asian man who likes math.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Well, seven months later, Andrew Yang is still very much alive in the race and he joins us live right here in the CNN NEWSROOM. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: The secretary of the Navy tonight pushing back against a "New York Times" report that he threatened to resign if President Trump halts the Navy's review of Navy SEAL Eddie Gallagher. And here's a reminder who Gallagher is. The Navy demoted him after he was convicted for posing with the dead body of a 12-year-old ISIS prisoner. The president reversed the demotion and tweeted he wouldn't let the Navy punish Gallagher.

Here's what Navy Secretary Richard V. Spencer is being said tonight about the reports he threatened to step down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Contrary to popular belief, I'm still here. I did not threaten to resign. But let us just say that we're here to talk about external threats and Eddie Gallagher's not one of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: CNN Military and Diplomatic Analyst, retired Navy Rear Admiral John Kirby is here with us now. Admiral, "The New York Times," by the way, stands by its reporting. What's your reaction to all of this?

REAR ADMIRAL JOHN KIRBY (retired), CNN MILITARY AND DIPLOMATIC ANALYST: Yes. Well, whether -- I mean, it's certainly hard to square "The New York times" story with what the secretary is saying, as well as spokespeople for Admiral Green, who also is denying that he has threatened to resign.

[20:20:09]

And I -- so, I think, you know, it's, obviously, not clear exactly where this is, although they've been very vocal. In fact, (INAUDIBLE) issued yet another statement tonight, a more emphatic statement saying never threaten to resign. The real issue here is not so much this resignation piece, it's about what's going on here. And what's going on here is an administrative review about whether now Chief Gallagher is going to be able to keep his SEAL qualifications.

CABRERA: Yes.

KIRBY: And it's not based on the murder charge or the acquittal. It's based on the fact that he was convicted of posing for photos with war dead which is absolutely against regulations in the military. It is a crime. And that's what is going on there. It's an administrative process.

And so, that's what makes this so unusual for the commander-in-chief to get involved. It's not unusual for commanders and chief to get involved in legal proceedings. And we've seen that in the past. I mean, President Obama, you know, commuted the sentence of Chelsea Manning, for instance.

But to get involved in something so specific, like the qualifications of an individual to do their job, which is something that is very -- you know, considered very low down in the chain of command for a commanding officer to handle, not necessarily the president of the United States.

CABRERA: So, if the president does have it his way then, does Eddie Gallagher just return to his old posts, his old job? And even though, you know, some of these Navy SEALs he'd be serving alongside were the ones who expressed concern about his actions?

KIRBY: Well, I mean, so, if the president does intervene and Chief Gallagher is allowed to keep his trident, his -- designation, I mean, he'll remain in the Navy SEALs. Now, what he does after that is up to him. I mean, there's rumors he might retire. Certainly, if he didn't retire, he would be within his rights to stay in the Navy.

CABRERA: But what's the impact of that then with the rest of the people who are (INAUDIBLE)?

KIRBY: The SEALs are, as I think most of America know, they are incredible professionals. They are war fighters. They believe in their mission and nobody does it better in the world. They will continue to do that mission.

And I think the American people can take a measure of confidence that the Navy SEAL community is still going to be out there, doing bad things to bad people on their behalf and in their defense, professionally and capably. They're not going to let this distract them from that mission. I'm sure that inside the SEAL community some people have different feelings about Chief Gallagher and what happened. They can speak to that.

But in terms of their capabilities and what we, the American taxpayer, can depend upon, there should be no worries about that.

CABRERA: Rear Admiral John Kirby, good to have you here. Thank you. KIRBY: Thank you.

CABRERA: In a CNN exclusive interview, former Vice President Joe Biden opens up about the impeachment inquiry. Why he says he's now embarrassed for Senator Lindsey Graham.

Plus, you're looking live now at the crowd in Sioux City, Iowa waiting for Andrew Yang. The man behind the $1,000 pledge will join me live from the campaign trail. He's not happy with some in the media and he wants to tell you all about it. But it might surprise you to find out just who has Andrew Yang upset enough to demand an apology.

[20:23:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Joe Biden believes President Trump should be impeached by the House, but says history will really be made when the case gets to the Senate. The former vice president, and Democratic candidate for the White House, sat for a long conversation with my colleague, Don Lemon. Biden also says he knows why some of his former colleagues have aligned themselves so closely with this president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: I want to talk to you about impeachment.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes.

LEMON: Do you think Democrats have made their case? Do you see an impeachable offense?

BIDEN: I think it's clear on the record that Donald Trump went in, in addition to the violations that have been uncovered relative the Mueller report. I think Donald Trump, there is no doubt he has asked foreign countries to interfere in our electoral process. Period. It's been established.

Now, Republicans are trying to make it that that has nothing to do with anything. The truth is it's a violation of the Constitution to do that. So, I think the case has been made clear. What the Republicans do when it gets over to the Senate, where the actual trial begins, impeachment, indictment. That means an indictment.

So, I believe he should be impeached and have the Senate try whether or not they are high crimes and misdemeanors that would cause him to be thrown out of office. That's a decision for them to make. I hope they have the courage. I hope they remember this is a moment, a moment when their record is going to go down in history as whether they played it by the rules.

LEMON: But the Republicans are still trying to make this about you and your son.

BIDEN: Sure, they are. But you know, look, there is not a scintilla of evidence that I did anything wrong. They're -- the -- If you notice, what's happened is the entire spectrum of people involved, from our folks in the E.U., our friends, to the IMF, International Monetary Fund, to our allies, to the Ukrainians, not a single shred that I did anything other than my job and really well.

LEMON: But that has to anger you, because they keep bringing you up over and over. You say there's not a scintilla of evidence.

BIDEN: Sure, it does.

LEMON: Let me ask you, because Lindsey Graham now, who you've worked with, who was a friend, and I know this video of him saying oh, you are the nicest person he's ever met. You're the greatest man. And now, he's asking the State Department for documents for you and your son. What do you say to Lindsey Graham and folks like him?

BIDEN: They're asking Lindsey Graham, they have him under their thumb right now. They know he knows if he comes out against Trump, he's got a real tough road for re-election. Number one. I am disappointed. And, quite frankly, I am angered by the fact he knows me. He knows my son. He knows there's nothing to this.

Trump is now, essentially, holding power over him that even the Ukrainians wouldn't yield to. The Ukrainians would not yield. To, quote, "investigate Biden." Because there's nothing to investigate about Biden or his son. And Lindsey is about to go down in a way that I think he's going to regret his whole life.

LEMON: What do you say to him?

[20:30:00]

BIDEN: I say, Lindsey, I just -- I'm just embarrassed for by you're doing for you. I mean, my Lord. And it's just -- I mean --

LEMON: Have you watched these hearings?

BIDEN: I've watched some of them because I've been on the road.

LEMON: What do you think of the defense when you hear them questioning the witnesses and the patriotism of these people who have come forward?

BIDEN: It angers me. It angers me. Especially Trump trying to intimidate witnesses while they're testifying. What kind of man is this? That alone is enough for him to be viewed as a pariah. I mean, think about it.

LEMON: But it seems you talk about always healing the part and working with people on the other side. You've worked -- I don't know if this is the same party as when you were senator and when you were a vice president.

Can you work with this party? Can you heal this divide?

BIDEN: With Trump defeated, yes, I can. And where we can't work with them, we go out and defeat them. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got to ask you. This is a grueling process.

BIDEN: Yes.

LEMON: You're 77 years old. You and Bernie Sanders, the oldest. Why are you the guy? Do you have the stamina? Why are you the guy?

BIDEN: Come out and run with me, man. Come to the gym and lift with me. I am, thank God, I know it can change in a moment. I know that. You never can take for granted your health. But I'm in great health. I'm in physical health.

And, again, just sort of watch me like I was doing a parade and there were some Trumpites there, you know, with the -- it was a 4th of July parade and they said Sleepy. I said, come run with me, Jack. Come run with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: You know, back in 2015, politics was a lot different. And the now hostile relationship between Biden and Senator Graham used to be a lot more friendly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): If you can't admire Joe Biden as a person, then it's probably you got a problem. He's the nicest person I think I've ever met in politics.

SCOTT CONROY, INTERVIEWED GRAHAM IN 2015: Is that right?

GRAHAM: He is as good a man as God ever created.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: The story behind that Lindsey Graham video, the man who spoke to him then talks to me, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:35:11]

CABRERA: Senate judiciary chairman, Lindsey Graham, is asking the State Department for documents related to Joe Biden, Biden's son, Hunter, and their dealings in Ukraine. This despite the fact there is no evidence of wrongdoing by either of the Bidens.

And before the break, you heard Joe Biden tell CNN's Don Lemon in an exclusive interview that Senator Graham will, quote, regret his whole life doing Trump's bidding on Ukraine.

It wasn't too long ago when Graham was running to be the 2016 Republican candidate for president, but he had quite a different opinion of Joe Biden than he seems to have now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GRAHAM: If you can't admire Joe Biden as a person, then it's probably you've got a problem. You need to do some self-evaluation. Because what's not to like? Here's what I can tell you. That life can change just like that. Don't take it for granted. Don't take relationships for granted. I called him after Beau died.

And he basically said, well, Beau was my soul. We talked for a long time. He came to my ceremony and said some of the most incredibly heartfelt things that anybody could ever say to me, and he's the nicest person I think I've ever met in politics.

CONROY: Is that right?

GRAHAM: He is as good a man as God ever created. And we don't agree on much, but I think he's been dealt a really gut blow. I think he focuses on what he's got to do not what he lost. His heart's been ripped out, but he's going to make sure that the other members of his family is well taken care of, and he started talking about his grandkids.

More worried about them than anything. We just talked about the future. He started talking about the future. The future of his family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Scott Conroy was the man behind the camera that day with Lindsey Graham and is joining us now. We appreciate you making the time to be with us tonight, Scott.

This is a remarkable moment you captured even without the context it has now. What led Graham to offer such kindness back then?

CONROY: Yes, I mean, it was part of the series that we did at "The Huffington Post" called "16 and President" in advance of the 2016 presidential campaign.

And we went out with nine or ten, I think, ultimately of the candidates running for president that year. And we really just tried to get them to open up in a way that they don't usually in interviews and in more formal setting, just kind of let the cameras roll, let them talk about whatever is coming to mind as they, in this case, barnstormed across Iowa.

And I think, you know, what you just saw there is the real Lindsey Graham, the Lindsey Graham that I got to know pretty well, over the course of that campaign.

And I think, you know, I remember that video resonating even at the time because it was so rare for any politician to speak about another politician from the other party in such a visceral, you know, emotional, and flat out real way.

I mean, I don't think anyone could watch that video and think that he wasn't being genuine there. And so, it's been all the more startling to see this transformation. CABRERA: Right. Graham was a fierce critic of the Obama administration. He was still willing at that time to make bipartisan deals. And he was no fan of Donald Trump back in 2015, was he?

CONROY: No. I mean, he called him, I think, a race baiting xenophobic religious bigot, an idiot. Someone who is unfit for office. That's what he really thinks. I'm sure that's what he still thinks as well.

You know, I mean, look, Lindsey Graham is a conservative. There's no doubt about it, and he alluded to that in the video. But I think there's a difference between disagreeing with someone politically and, you know, having a certain amount of respect and camaraderie with them.

And so I think for a lot of people that are trying to decipher, quote unquote, what has happened to Lindsey Graham these last few years, it's especially tough because they see in him someone who is genuine and in a city, and in an environment where you don't get a lot of that.

[20:40:13]

CABRERA: He's been asked about his shift toward the president who has famously and repeatedly attacked his late friend, Senator John McCain, even in his death. But Graham has said of himself, "What happened to me? Not a damn thing." Ask somebody who has covered him up close. I mean, what do you make of that?

CONROY: Yes. I mean, I think that that was from an interview that he did with Mark Leibovich from the New York Times. It was really fascinating profile. I encourage people to read it from earlier this year.

At the end of the day, this is the best that I could make sense of what happened with him. You know, he ran for president in 2016 trying to co-op the John McCain model his, of course, his good friend and comrade.

He wanted to go out and speak truth to power. He wanted to go grind it out vote by vote, mainly in New Hampshire. Tell it like it is. And really capture some of that McCain magic. That didn't work out for him. Not by a long shot.

And so when that didn't work out and his campaign didn't get any traction, he decided, well, the best thing I can do now is be the truth teller when it comes to Donald Trump. That's when he -- you know, I think he said that trying to choose between Trump and Cruz was like being -- trying to choose between being poisoned or getting shot.

And so, you know, that didn't resonate at all either. And so Lindsey Graham, at the end of the day, I think decided, well, I can either continue to do this kind of one-man show that no one seems to be paying much attention to or I can be relevant. And I think that was the word that he used in that p-- in that profile in the "New York Times. At the end of the day, he decided that he wanted to be relevant and that was more important to him than saying what he actually believes.

CABRERA: Relevant as a politician, I suppose.

Scott Conroy, good to have your insight. I appreciate you taking the time. Thanks.

CONROY: All right. Thank you.

CABRERA: 2020 democratic presidential candidate, Andrew Yang, is angry at how he's being covered and you might be surprised at who he's demanding an apology from. He joins us live next in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:45:09]

CABRERA: The impeachment election is upon us, but if November of 2020 becomes a referendum on whether President Trump deserves to be impeached and removed, who wins politically?

Andrew Yang joins us now from the campaign trail in Sioux City, Iowa. Thanks so much for being here.

ANDREW YANG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's great to be here. Thanks for having me on, Ana.

CABRERA: Let me ask you, even after everything that came out this week, you've said the impeachment proceedings are probably not going to work for the Democrats.

Earlier today, I spoke with Democrat, Andrew Gillum, who lost a down- to-the-wire race for Florida governor in 2018. He's now a CNN political commentator and he disagrees with you. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW GILLUM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I find, you know, Mr. Yang's comments a little bit unfortunate. And I'm glad to see that Democrats are quite frankly standing on the side of the constitution and are gearing up to hold this president accountable.

And I have to tell you, I don't think by the time we get around to October of next year that the conversation is going to be about impeachment or removal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Why is Andrew Gillum wrong?

YANG: I am onboard with impeachment. I think that Democrats are right to move forward. But, Ana, we have to face facts that not a single Republican has crossed party lines to support these impeachment proceedings and we need literally dozens of Republican senators to join the Democrats in the Senate if impeachment is going to be successful.

So we have to be realistic about what the prospects are. To me, my focus as a candidate is solving the problems that got Donald Trump elected in the first place and helping move the country forward. When we're talking about Donald Trump, we are losing, and that includes in the context of impeaching Donald Trump.

We need a new positive vision that Americans can see themselves in, a new way forward.

CABRERA: You are with us tonight but I'd be remiss if I did not mention that you are also invited on MSNBC this weekend and you turned down that invitation, and instead took to Twitter to slam the network, a decision that could be seen as risky during a democratic primary.

We're showing one of those tweets here which reads in part, was asked to appear on MSNBC this weekend and told them that I'd be happy to after they apologize on air. What exactly do you want an apology for?

YANG: Well, Ana, Americans tuned in to the debate earlier this week and they saw that I got called on less than any other candidate including candidates that I'm polling higher than. And the questions I did get had virtually nothing to do with the core ideas of my campaign.

And if this were an isolated incident that would be one thing. But if you go back over the last number of months, MSNBC has literally omitted me from over a dozen fundraising and polling graphics which is not about me. It's about the 300,000 plus Americans who donated to and support my campaign and the millions of Americans who know we need to rewrite the rules of the 21st century economy to work for us.

Think about those people donating $10, $20 of their hard-earned money to put a candidate on the stage and then have MSNBC virtually ignore me for 32 minutes. Or when they tune in to MSNBC to see how we're doing in the polls. It's like I don't exist.

And you can go through the records. You can see they've done it to me over and over again. And I'm not the kind of guy who takes offense easily. But at this point, you have to call it like you see it.

CABRERA: Do you think there's a specific reason you're not getting the coverage you feel is fair on a network so popular with the left?

YANG: It's a bit of a mystery to me, Ana. And I hope that when they come clean and acknowledge that they have been suppressing and ignoring me and my campaign for months, maybe they'll actually share with us what the rationale is.

All I know is that I'm fighting for the American people. I'm here in Iowa. There are -- I'm going to say hundreds. I actually lost track. Hundreds of Iowans right behind me, as you can see, who know we need to actually work on solving the problems that got Donald Trump elected.

[20:50:08] I have no idea why MSNBC does not want to have this conversation.

CABRERA: So far, there are six candidates who have qualified for the next democratic debate in December which will air here on CNN. You're not one of them who's qualified so far. You've yet to miss a debate. But the bar keeps getting higher to qualify.

Do you have any concerns about missing this one?

YANG: You know, Ana, you can see right now we've already blown past the donor threshold. I'm one poll away from qualifying for the December debate. So we'll be on that stage in December.

And I want to give a shout-out to you and your colleagues at CNN, where I said to Wolf Blitzer, just yesterday, I missed having you all moderate the debate, because you called it right up the middle. You gave a substantive questions. We have real conversations and exchanges about automation in the 21st century economy.

So really, just full credit to CNN for your professionalism and journalistic integrity.

CABRERA: I want to ask you about Michael Bloomberg's $37 million ad buy. Senator Sanders blasted him and accused him of trying to buy the election. How do you see it?

YANG: You know, it's going to be really fascinating seeing how the Bloomberg campaign unfolds. I don't think it's possible to replace thousands of face-to-face interactions in Iowa and across the country with ad buys. I just don't see it. I think that he's going to find that spending money in advertising. It's like pushing on a string where you get lower and lower returns as you spend more and more money.

And you can't buy passion. If you have to put people against money, I will take people every day of the week.

CABRERA: Andrew Yang, I appreciate you joining us tonight. Thank you and good luck on the campaign trail.

YANG: Thank you, Ana. Appreciate you having me on. Thank you from the Yang gang. Thank you. We'll see you soon.

CABRERA: OK. There's that passion.

All right. I do want to get to our breaking news this hour. Supreme Court Justice, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, has been hospitalized. We'll have an update on her condition, next.

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[20:55:47]

CABRERA: Before we go this hour, a quick update on our breaking news.

Supreme Court justice, Ruth Bader Ginsburg spending a second night in a Baltimore Hospital tonight. She was admitted after experiencing chills and a fever.

Justice Ginsburg is 86 years old. Known for her vitality, but she has been through a string of recent health issues. She missed a day of arguments earlier this month because she was sick.

A Supreme Court statement says Justice Ginsburg expects to be released from the hospital tomorrow. We'll keep you posted.

That does it for me tonight. I'll be back tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Eastern tomorrow night.

A CNN special report, "On the Brink: When a President Faces Impeachment" is next.

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