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Hong Kong Voting in Local Elections; Colombia Protests; Impeachment Inquiry; Pence Visits Troops, Bypasses Baghdad. Aired 3- 3:30a ET

Aired November 24, 2019 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello and welcome everyone, live from Studio 7 here at CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Michael Holmes.

On CNN NEWSROOM, going to the polls after months of protest, voters in Hong Kong having their say.

Outrage in Colombia: more than 100 people arrested. There have been days of protests.

And new questions about Rudy Giuliani in the impeachment inquiry.

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HOLMES: Welcome, everyone.

In Hong Kong, mass protests have been put on hold for now as voters head to the polls for local elections. So far, more than 1 million people have turned out to vote for district councilors. The election was considered a referendum on protests which have rocked the city for months.

You're looking at live pictures now as voting continues. Activists say they're going to be voting to voice their frustration with Mainland China. Let's go now to Hong Kong, live now, Paula Hancocks is standing by.

OK, so they say it is a referendum on the protest. Tell us about the turnout and what the voters are telling you.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Michael, the turnout is high; 42 percent of people who are eligible to vote have voted by 2:30 this afternoon and, in fact, in the first six hours of today, there were more people voting than in the entire day at the last district council election, that was back in 2015.

So that gives you some idea as to how important people in Hong Kong see this vote. Now we have been seeing across the territory, long lines of people patiently waiting to cast their vote.

And then for the pro democracy movement, they believe this is extremely, important the first time really in six months they have been able to show their displeasure with what they say is going on.

And it will also be interesting to see what the final numbers are and how many seats the pro democracy movement does have. Up until recently, there has been a vast majority, if not all of these district council seats, have been taken by the pro Beijing, the pro government contingent, because they really have not been contested too, much.

These local district council elections and they have not had the turnout that we have seen today but that just gives you some indication of how important people feel that this is and there have not been any protests and the violence this weekend.

The pro democracy camp saying they wanted to make sure that this went ahead because Carrie Lam, the chief executive said if there were protests and violence that they could be postponed.

We have seen the police presence. We knew this was going to happen. Not long ago, about a dozen police walking past this polling station. There is one inside, according to officials, but they are at pains to say they are not visible as people are voting.

HOLMES: Yes and of, course as you pointed out, both sides can be voting in this as well, those who are opposed to the protest.

Do you get the sense from those you're talking to that, whatever the result of the election, the reality is the mainland is still in charge?

Is it enough for the protesters to just send a message today?

HANCOCKS: Well, this is really the first chance that the pro democracy movement has had to show what kind of support they have within Hong Kong or at least to find out what kind of support they have in Hong Kong.

The government has been saying there is a silent maturity here that is fed up with a protest, the violence, the chaos, the disruption. The daily life. And we have had no barometer for that.

Neither side have had any kind of indication when it comes to cold, hard numbers and facts as to what the support for the pro democracy movement is and what the support for the government and a pro China- Beijing movement, is.

So this is really going to be an indication for both sides to see whether or not then they do have the support they claimed to have, because both sides are claiming that they have the moral high, ground that they had the support of Hong Kong, so, this will be a referendum, a barometer of exactly what the overall feeling when it comes to these protests is.

HOLMES: Indeed, keeping an eye on it for. Us Paula Hancocks live in Hong Kong. Appreciate it Paula, thank you.

Now the United Nations is welcoming the Colombian president's offer of a national conversation to try to end days of violent unrest in the nation's capital.

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HOLMES: At least three people have been killed, 169 arrested after tens of thousands of demonstrators started taking to the streets of Bogota on Thursday.

They say they are angry over many things, really but the way the government is run is one of them. Rising unemployment as, well. The president now promising to fight corruption.

And Brett Bruen joins me now. He is the president of Global Situation Room and spent 12 years as a U.S. diplomat, including in Latin America.

Always good to have you with us. Let's start with this. You had 250,000 people marching in the national strike on Thursday.

How widespread is the discontent and how do you see the momentum flow?

BRETT BRUEN, FORMER U.S. DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL ENGAGEMENT: Well, I think it is widespread for the moment. But unlike what we've seen in Chile, in Bolivia, it's not a unified effort and there is not one issue that they're protesting against.

So the question that looms over these protests is how long such a disparate group of people can stay out in the streets and whether or not this really will have an impact on the Duque government.

I think quite frankly what we're looking at is an effort by various groups to just express some discontent and try to get more attention from the Colombian government.

HOLMES: And it does seem that President Duque is listening. He says he wants dialogue and let's face, it he is a fairly new president, 15 months in office or so.

Why the intense pressure on him?

Is it just a confluence of issues, as you say, a bad timing?

BRUEN: Well, he has faced a number of challenges since taking office. One, obviously, he has a very technocratic government. They are not necessarily the best communicators.

In addition, there are a number of challenges that he inherited from his predecessor; not least, a peace accord, which comes with its own shortcomings and trying to implement it and trying to ensure that the stability that Colombia has achieved, especially with everything going on in Venezuela, is not jeopardized, is no easy task.

HOLMES: Yes, he talks about a national conversation that will, as he put, it close gaps in society.

Will that conversation -- I suppose it depends on the content of it -- but will that placate the people -- as you point, out, there are so many different elements of the protest, placate enough people to dilute the protest?

BRUEN: I think that is the key issue. If he can peel off a couple of significant groups within this overall movement, that will be enough to take the air out of the sails of these protests.

And again, there is not a common message that all of them are rallying around, so it makes it easier for the Colombian government to offer some enticements to certain groups and to encourage them to come back into the fold.

HOLMES: You touched on -- you mentioned other nations earlier and I want to get your thoughts on this. It just seems to be there is a wave of discontent across Latin America.

Why are so many countries with such disconnect?

You have anti-austerity marches in Chile. You have vote tampering allegations in Bolivia; Evo Morales had to leave. Then you have Ecuador, you have Nicaragua, you mentioned Venezuela, it seems there is a lot going on.

Why is that?

BRUEN: We have the Arab Spring, now it seems we have the Latin American fall. And indeed, there is discontent due to some of the economic downturn in the region. As well, I think American neglect plays a large role.

The U.S., perhaps with the exception of Venezuela, has been pretty disconnected and disengaged when it comes to trying to work on democracy, work on economic development in the region.

President Trump's economic attacks, political attacks on Central America have reverberated around the region. And I think there is the sense that the United States is no longer playing a stabilizing role, ensuring adherence to certain norms it did in the past and that has contributed to some of these protests.

HOLMES: Brett Bruen, always good to get your expertise, appreciated so much.

BRUEN: Absolutely.

HOLMES: We will take a short break here on the program. When we come, back Rudy Giuliani pushing back on documents showing the White House coordinated his interactions with the U.S. secretary of state.

Giuliani's response, "I know how to use the phone."

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HOLMES: Plus, vice president Mike Pence makes a surprise visit to Iraq, meets with Kurdish leader but the vice president bypassed Baghdad. We will explain why.

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HOLMES: Welcome back.

Rudy Giuliani, President Trump's personal attorney, is disputing reports the White House helped coordinate his interactions on Ukraine with the U.S. secretary of state Mike Pompeo.

But here's the thing, documents in the U.S. State Department show the White House helped put him in touch with Pompeo last March. Giuliani, though, insists he did not need help calling Pompeo. He also says he's not worried about becoming a fall guy in the Ukraine scandal.

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RUDY GIULIANI, ADVISOR TO DONALD TRUMP: You can assume that I talked to him early and often. I have a very, very good relationship with him and all of these comments, which are totally insulting and I see things written like, he's going to throw me under the bus. When they say, that I say he is not but I have insurance.

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HOLMES: Also, Republican congressman Devin Nunes is pushing back on allegations that he traveled to Europe in order to dig up dirt on Joe and Hunter Biden on the taxpayer dime.

An attorney for Lev Parnas, one of Giuliani's indicted associates, says that Parnas is willing to testify before Congress how Ukrainian prosecutor, the disgraced Ukrainian prosecutor, Victor Shokin, claims he met with Nunes in Vienna last December. Nunes refused to comment to CNN but did tell a right-wing news outlet the story was quote, "demonstrably false."

Joining me now, CNN legal analyst Ross Garber.

Always good to see you, sir. Let's talk about impeachment. You have the Democrats moving to get that impeachment vote.

I'm curious, what is your take on why so quickly?

Why not go harder when it comes to these court challenges for people like John Bolton, the acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, Energy Secretary Rick Perry, others who have been stonewalling?

Why not wait and get them to give evidence after the court hearing?

ROSS GARBER, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the big difficulty is timing. These court proceedings can drag on for months or even years. And we're coming up on a presidential election.

The early primaries and caucuses for the Democratic Party are starting in February and so the Democratic-run House wants to get this whole process done by then. HOLMES: Right, now, the president said, he said publicly, he said, I want a Senate trial, I'm fine with that. Procedurally, though, the Republicans make the rules.

Is it conceivable they could vote to not have a trial?

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GARBER: Yes, indeed. As you know, in the country's history, we've only impeached two presidents, so very limited experience as a country trying these impeachment cases but in the last trial, President Clinton, in that case, there was a motion to dismiss all of the charges that was taken up by the Senate.

The Senate at that point recognized they could do that. They could just dismiss the charges. They decided not to do it in that case. But it could happen here.

HOLMES: If they have a trial, how does it operate?

In a trial, the senators cannot talk, right?

So we will not get those partisan monologues from either side.

What will it look like?

GARBER: Historically, also, they have resented being called jurors. They view their role as being more expansive than that. They are sort of judge and jury. Again, the Constitution just does not provide very much. It says the Senate shall have the sole power to try impeachments.

Our Supreme, Court in one case says the Senate can handle it however they want. Historically, how it will probably work, assuming there is not a motion to dismiss, is that the first thing the Senate is going to do is decide whether they want to hear testimony from witnesses.

Again, in the last impeachment trial of President Clinton, the Senate actually decided they did not want to hear actual witness testimony. And what they decided to do was have the lawyers depose witnesses, take private testimony and then play excerpts as part of closing arguments before the Senate.

That could happen here, too, or there could be live testimony before the full Senate.

HOLMES: Fascinating, the different ways this could go. Now Donald Trump's defense, I, suppose would be based on his own witnesses and defenders.

How strong is that defense when it comes to the merits of the case, the testimony we have heard, the evidence given so far?

GARBER: Remember, this is not a legal case. There is a law that sort of puts the guardrails, in this very political and right, now the Republicans have the majority in the U.S. Senate and to get a conviction we need two-thirds of the senators are present.

That probably amounts to about 20 percent of the senators having to vote against the president very unlikely. So the defense is whatever works with the senators. I think what we are going to hear is that there was sort of nothing wrong here.

To the extent that there were imperfections, it did not rise to the level of an impeachable offense, which, under the Constitution, is treason, bribery and other high crimes and misdemeanors.

One additional thing to look out for is a trial within the trial. The president is probably going to want to put on evidence that his theories related to this were valid, notably and particularly, this theory that this company called Burisma paid the vice president -- former vice president's son and that that was improper.

HOLMES: Yes, which is being widely debunked that there was anything illegal done by either Biden.

It is really interesting what you say, there and you're, right it is a political process, it is not a legal process. So in essence, you see a fairly broad swath of people saying, the evidence is overwhelming, that he at least abused his office and there was perhaps bribery involved.

But because it is a political process and the Republicans control the Senate, the strength of the evidence in a way does not matter.

GARBER: Well, it may not matter unless it is communicated to the American people in a way where the American people decide it matters and they put pressure one way or the other on the senators.

I think one of things you also will start hearing in the White House is they have not put on the defense yet and they will not put on a defense in the House and the defense will be in the Senate. I think they're going to caution us all to not jump to conclusions based on what we've heard so far.

HOLMES: Fascinating months ahead. Ross Garber, always good to get your thoughts.

GARBER: Good to be with you.

HOLMES: And the U.S. vice president Mike Pence made an unannounced visit on Saturday to Iraq where he stopped at a military base in western Iraq and served a Thanksgiving meal to American troops based there.

But he conspicuously bypassed the capital, of Baghdad, out of security concerns. We get more now from CNN's Arwa Damon.

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ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: His visit was unannounced, a surprise visit, seemingly at least on the surface, as an early Thanksgiving celebration for U.S. forces stationed in Iraq. [03:20:00]

DAMON (voice-over): Vice president Pence and his wife arriving to the Al-Asad airbase in Anbar province to thank the troops for their service, highlighting victories in the fight against ISIS and serve troops stationed there a Thanksgiving meal.

But this trip comes against a backdrop of a very turbulent Iraq and a very turbulent region, for that matter.

Iraq has been embroiled in deadly protests that have seen a fair level of criticism being leveled by the United States and others towards the government in Baghdad and Iraqi security forces for their handling of these demonstrations.

We do know that the vice president did not visit Baghdad; instead, speaking by phone to the Iraqi prime minister. We don't know the details of that conversation. The vice president and his entourage did then travel to Irbil, the capital of Iraqi Kurdistan, meeting with the president of Iraqi Kurdistan there, something that may be viewed as a snub to Baghdad.

But perhaps it was an attempt to try to emphasize to the Kurds, not just in Iraq but in Syria as well, that the U.S. still views them as being a key ally. Vice president Pence making a clear point to say that the Americans and the Kurds share blood ties.

But at this stage it is unclear if that sort of rhetoric is going to be successful when it comes to any sort of damage control that the U.S. does in terms of repairing its image in Iraq, Syria and across the region -- Arwa Damon, CNN, Istanbul.

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HOLMES: We'll take a short break here on the program. When we come back, a historic visit to Japan, Pope Francis asking the world to remember the past and learn from its mistakes. What he says needs to end in order to obtain peace -- when we come back.

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HOLMES: Welcome back.

Pope Francis held mass in Japan earlier, calling for peace and an end to nuclear weapons. He is visiting Nagasaki and Hiroshima, where the U.S. dropped atomic bombs at the end of World War II.

He says having any nuclear weapons offers a quote, "false sense of security" and investment in the global arms race is a waste of resources. The pontiff is set to meet with the emperor and prime minister of Japan. He was, in fact, the first pope to visit the country in nearly four decades. And on Saturday, climate change activists stormed the field at a U.S.

college football game between two well-known Ivy League schools. For nearly an hour at halftime, Harvard and Yale students joined together and demanded that both schools divest their endowments from fossil fuel holdings.

They also want to cancel holdings in Puerto Rican debt.

Police eventually escorted the protesters off the field, allowing the second half of the game to begin, Yale topping Harvard 50-43. A lot of support for those protesters, though, in the stands and by the teams as well, the players.

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HOLMES: Australia still has at least, what, 66 bushfires still going on; France is dealing with flooding.

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HOLMES: Thanks for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Michael Holmes. I'll have your headlines in just a moment.