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Rep. Adriano Espaillat (D-NY) is Interviewed about Impeachment; Bloomberg Launches Campaign; Pro-Democracy Wins in Hong Kong; Ginsburg Home from Hospital. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired November 25, 2019 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT (D-NY): They have evidence to share with us. But, at the end of the day, I think we'll package the entire body of evidence and we'll send it to Jerry Nadler and the Judiciary Committee.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: But are you going to wait for Bolton and McGahn and -- I mean I want to get to the McGahn court decision today, but they could -- you know, the courts could drag this out for weeks.

ESPAILLAT: They may -- they may decide not to come in. So -- and this will take weeks and weeks. So I think that we will not wait, no.

SCIUTTO: OK. Do you think that's a mistake? I wonder. Because the key, you know, as you know from watching the hearings, because the key Republican defense at this point is that no witness has directly testified the president told me to delay this aid. Now, in fairness, all of the witnesses who could testify to that have been blocked by the White House.

ESPAILLAT: Correct.

SCIUTTO: But I wonder if you're concerned that that weakens your case and, therefore, you should take the time, wait.

ESPAILLAT: Well, look, I -- we'll leave it up to Adam Schiff, he's done a tremendous job at running these hearings. But we heard compelling evidence from Taylor, from Vindman, from Sondland, I think his back and forth was very telling. So there's enough there I think for us to really take a good look at this. But I'll leave -- I'll leave it up to Adam and Jerry Nadler to see where we go with this. For me, I am convinced with the evidence that has been presented.

SCIUTTO: You would vote -- you would vote to impeach the president today?

ESPAILLAT: I would do that, yes.

SCIUTTO: You're there. OK.

Let's go on to the broader scope of the investigation now because we've learned that a Giuliani associate, of course associate of the president's personal attorney, is willing to testify that Devin Nunes, the ranking Republican on the Intelligence Committee, met with a former Ukrainian official who wildly disparaged, by of our allies and the U.S., to dig up dirt on Joe Biden.

Should Nunes be investigated for that meeting?

ESPAILLAT: I think we ought to take a look at it. Meeting with a disgraced prosecutor, Poroshenko (ph), that not only the United States but the European Union and many countries across the world felt that he was very corrupt, leaves a lot to be desired, right? We ought to take a look at what that conversation was about.

And, in fact, this -- this -- this entire impeachment proceeding is about whether we twisted Ukraine's arm and forced them to handle an illegal investigation that will have an impact on an election. This is not about whether we do quid pro quo for national security or other matters that are important to America. This was for personal gain --

SCIUTTO: Right.

ESPAILLAT: For the president to have an edge, an advantage in next year's election.

SCIUTTO: Yes, Fiona Hill called it a domestic political errand in her phrasing.

ESPAILLAT: That's correct.

SCIUTTO: Of course the holidays are a time for you and your Democratic colleagues to go home and meet with constituents. The president was tweeting yesterday thanking Democrats, in his word, for the impeachment inquiry, saying, his own information is it's driving his poll numbers up. We haven't seen that necessarily. But we do know that many Democrats, voters are uncomfortable with this.

Are you hearing from your constituents that this is not where we want to be spending our time?

ESPAILLAT: That's not what I heard. I was out -- I was out and about last night in the community and people were not communicating that to me at all. In fact, they want us to push harder. I represent naturally a very progressive district, but I think across America people understand when they hear and see the truth and I think that the arguments and the evidence presented during this couple of weeks is compelling.

SCIUTTO: But you do have some, as you know, some nervous colleagues in less progressive districts than your own, particularly ones that won in swing districts in 2018 --

ESPAILLAT: That's correct (ph).

SCIUTTO: Flipping from red to blue. Do you hear from them concern that this -- this puts me in trouble?

ESPAILLAT: They're -- most of them, if not all of them, are already there. And they've been through this process already. Again, good -- good government is good politics. I think it was good government for us to engage in this impeachment process. It was (INAUDIBLE).

SCIUTTO: Final question. You're from New York.

ESPAILLAT: Yes.

SCIUTTO: There's another New York politician who is now officially in the race.

ESPAILLAT: I saw that.

SCIUTTO: Of course, the former Mayor Mike --

ESPAILLAT: It was all over the media last night.

SCIUTTO: Michael Bloomberg. What does that mean for Democrats in this race?

ESPAILLAT: Well, look, I think the American people are uncomfortable about somebody coming in with lots of money and so like throwing their money around. But, you know, he's had --

SCIUTTO: They elected one in 2016.

ESPAILLAT: That's correct but they -- he had a good record in the city with regards to gun control and climate change. But he didn't have such a good record with regards to criminal justice reform and how the city became so expensive that working-class people continue to struggle. So there's mixed views on it and let's see what develops.

SCIUTTO: Could he win the nomination?

ESPAILLAT: I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

SCIUTTO: OK. We'll be watching.

Congressman Espaillat, thanks very much, as always.

ESPAILLAT: Thank you so much.

SCIUTTO: Happy Thanksgiving to you.

ESPAILLAT: Same to you.

SCIUTTO: I know you're going to be serving meals later this week out there.

ESPAILLAT: That's correct. That's correct.

SCIUTTO: So good on you and I hope you get some time for yourself.

ESPAILLAT: Enjoy your turkey.

SCIUTTO: OK. I will.

We will have much more on Bloomberg's bid and a major ad blitz by Bloomberg kicking off today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:39:29]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike Bloomberg became the guy who did good and now he's taking on him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Michael Bloomberg has launched his first TV ad, this after kicking off his 2020 bid officially. It's not a small one. Part of a $37 million media blitz hitting states across the country. It helps to have all those billions.

I'm joined now by CNN national correspondent Jason Carroll, and our political analyst, Nathan Gonzales. He's editor and publisher of "Inside Elections."

Nathan, let me begin with you.

His essential pitch here is he is a moderate candidate who can beat Trump, but it seems that part of his drive for entering the race is fear that the current Democratic candidates cannot beat Trump.

[09:40:09]

Is that fear reasonable?

NATHAN GONZALES, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think there is some fear about not being able to defeat Trump, but I'm not sure that Mayor Bloomberg is the answer.

One thing that stuck out to me from that 60-second ad that he's unveiling is, you know, we're old enough to remember that in 2001 Bloomberg decided to run as a Republican because the Democratic primary would have been too difficult. But there -- there are just multiple reasons why I think this is a challenge for Bloomberg.

First of all, if money and ads were the big -- were the -- were what drove you to the nomination, then Tom Steyer would be doing better than 2 percent in the polls and I'm not sure where -- and also skipping the early states, that is not the traditional path for a Democratic nominee, which is what Bloomberg is planning on doing. I'm just not sure what part of the Democratic electorate is crying out for what he's offering.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I want to get to that strategy, but, Jason, first to you, what is a selling point here?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that -- it's a very big question. I can tell you what is -- first of all we'll start with what is a selling point. He's a moderate. He's a successful businessman. But what is not a selling point for him, and this is something he's really going to have to get at, stop and frisk. You think about that -- that policy, you go out to these neighborhoods in New York, this is a policy that ended, when, in 2014. To this day, it still resonates with people of color in these neighborhoods.

And then how --

SCIUTTO: Just in New York or more broadly?

CARROLL: It -- more broadly than that. I mean you go into places in the south, I mean this is something that really has been talked about. And this is a man, this is a candidate that is eventually going to have to reach these voters. He's going to have to reach African- American voters. Not sure how he's going to do that. He says he's apologized for this, that he's moved on from it, he's realized the mistakes of his ways, but not sure how that's going to play out when trying to reach out to those particular type of voters.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

And, of course, Nathan, when you're running in the primary, I mean he has apologized, we should note, for stop and frisk saying that it's a mistake, et cetera. But when you're running in a primary, obviously you have a more progressive voting base making that decision as to who's going to be the Democrat nominee. Can he thread that needle to make a credible run?

GONZALES: I'm skeptical. I just -- I think that there are -- even though the primary is crowded and there are multiple candidates and there is that fear of maybe not defeating President Trump with a few of them, I just don't know that Bloomberg is -- Bloomberg is that answer.

You know, Joe Biden -- Vice President Biden has proven that he, right now, has a lock on African-American voters. One of the key constituencies of this primary. And I don't see what would change.

Bloomberg -- one of the biggest challenges for Bloomberg is that he's entering the race with high name ID.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GONZALES: He's trying to reintroduce himself with this ad, but people already know him and a chunk of people don't like him already. And that's hard to break out of.

SCIUTTO: Well, let's talk about a strategy, just quickly, Nathan, because he's skipping Iowa and New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina and focusing on Super Tuesday states. Of course, from the math of this, that could, I suppose, work out if you have a big day on Super Tuesday, but he'd be well behind the pack by that point.

GONZALES: Right. And we -- it's tough to, I think, estimate the momentum that can be gained by the candidates who will win or finish first, second in those early states. There will be a media narrative that develops about the -- about those candidates that are winning and it's going to be tough for Bloomberg. SCIUTTO: Yes.

GONZALES: And we saw this with Mayor Giuliani, you know, a couple presidential cycles ago. He was all-in on Florida. And -- but -- it's just -- it doesn't -- it looks good on paper, but in reality it's hard to execute.

SCIUTTO: And, of course, Giuliani was a national leader for some time before he fizzled. So, Jason, he does run or own a news organization which has to cover him in the midst of this.

CARROLL: A large one.

SCIUTTO: How do they handle that?

CARROLL: Well, look, this is an ethical fine line for the news organization because, you know, some of the journalists there, there's a question that they're putting themselves in a position of self- censorship because the editor in chief has basically come out and said, look, we're not going to run investigative pieces on Bloomberg or any of the other 2020 candidates. He released a statement basically saying in part, no previous presidential candidate has owned a journalistic organization of this size. He went on to say, he says there's no point in trying to claim that this -- that it's going to be easy covering this particular type of candidate with this newsroom that's built itself on a reputation of being independent.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CARROLL: But, look, Bloomberg is the big boss. He very easily could have said, hey, I'm stepping away completely, cover me as you wish. That didn't happen. We'll see how it goes.

SCIUTTO: Where else did someone not step away from their businesses officially. Rings a bell.

Jason Carroll, Nathan Gonzales, thanks very much to both of you.

GONZALES: No problem.

SCIUTTO: Stunning wins for pro-democracy parties in this week's elections in Hong Kong. I mean this is really a remarkable stand. Will it be enough to end months of protests? How crucially will China respond?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:49:32]

SCIUTTO: Watch this story because it really is remarkable. In a stinging rebuke to Beijing, voters in Hong Kong handed landslide victories to pro-democracy parties this weekend. The so-called district council elections capped months of sometimes violent anti- government protests. The question now is, will these victories and that unrest, how will China respond? They certainly see it as a direct challenge to their authority. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh, he joins me now from Hong Kong.

I imagine it's a mood of celebration there.

[09:50:02]

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: You'd think so, wouldn't you, Jim? But what you're seeing behind me is, again, a scene of protests, a tense standoff, small numbers certainly, but this is a focus of where we've had issues over the past week. The Poly U university campus. You can see there, one of the younger protesters just pushing as fast as they can really, the elastic limits of the barrier that's been put up to keep the crowd back and police have recently reinforced their numbers.

Now, this is the way into the Poly U campus, the scene of intense clashes a week ago. Great peace and calm descended on here but also Hong Kong on the days in the run-up before that election because campaigners were very keen to be sure that nothing happened that could possibly disrupt voting. And, yes, oh, my gosh, the protesters got the message they wanted from those polls. Ninety percent according to local media of local council seats in the hands now of pro-democracy candidates and a 70 percent turnout, 71 percent, I should say. Imagine those numbers in U.S. politics. Starting to hear that kind of mandate.

But, Jim, that comes with a catch. This does not change the leaders of power, really, in Hong Kong. These are local councilors. They decide bus routes, trash collection, things that aren't going to change how Beijing feels it has control over Hong Kong here.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WALSH: So, instead, we have, I think, protesters on the streets again, conscious that despite the extraordinary disruption these protests have wrought on Hong Kong, pushing the economy into recession, tearing up roads, shutting businesses, tearing families apart, frankly. We just saw down the road here a police was thought to be having a wedding in a hotel and protesters rushed the doors, flashing lights in the guests' eyes to try and disrupt it. Real enmity here.

This mandate, though, makes these protesters feel that despite all of that chaos, they still have the vast majority of Hong Kongers on their side. So, again we have stand-offs like this and a bit to try and get the remaining students, that those protesters are still inside the Poly U campus out with councilors perhaps helping, but still great tension, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Of course the question, does Beijing look at this as a direct threat to their authority? Do they respond?

Nick Paton Walsh, good to have you on the ground here. We're going to stay on top of that story.

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg is out of the hospital now after another health scare. We're going to have an update ahead. A lot hangs in the balance. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:57:00]

SCIUTTO: This morning, Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg is home and resting, this after being hospitalized on the weekend. The Supreme Court says she checked into the hospital Friday after experiencing chills and fever. This came just days after she missed a day in court due to a stomach bug.

CNN's Supreme Court analyst Joan Biskupic joins me now.

Of course this is something that was watched very closely. She's had a number of health bouts in recent years. Do we know what her serious it now and is she out of the woods?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Right, Jim. And, yes, it is -- she deserves to be closely watched just because of what she represents to the court and the country at this time.

She's back. Her presence was seen this morning on an orders list that was released just about a half hour ago. She clearly participated in all the cases that the justices talked about in their private conference last week. She even wrote something separate in one of them. So she's feeling better, according to the court, and she's obviously doing the work of the court, according to this orders list.

But you're right that we're watching, you know, for a stomach bug, the chills that she had over the weekend, anything, because here's a woman who's 86. She has survived cancer four times. She's a senior liberal on the bench. If she were to feel the need to resign and give President Trump a third appointment to the Supreme Court, it would be highly consequential. In fact, this appointment, if it ever were to come to that, would be more significant than the first two.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I thought there were no appointments during election years, but we can get to that topic later.

On the Supreme Court is handing down some decisions just in the last few minutes and there are more to come. What can we expect on a morning like this?

BISKUPIC: OK. So this is what you should really watch for, Jim. The orders list essentially was the justices telling us which cases they weren't going to participate in, you know, literally scores of appeals have come to their doorstep that they were turning down. But the most important cases sitting up there right now that we're awaiting word on is what this court is going to do with disputes over President Trump's financial documents that the House of Representatives are seeking and also that a grand jury up in New York is seeking. So really watch this space. And I'm sure Ruth Bader Ginsburg will be an active participant in these.

SCIUTTO: And, just to be clear, will we get an answer on the court's decision or just the answer on whether they're going to take up the case on the president's taxes? BISKUPIC: OK, so let me separate the two. There's the grand jury one

out of New York and then the one right here in Washington, D.C., from the House of Representatives. For that one, which is the one that is more imminent, the request that's pending from President Trump's lawyers is just that they blocked the subpoenas that could be enforced at any moment.

SCIUTTO: Right.

BISKUPIC: But the -- so the president is first asking, block these subpoenas and then please take up our case on the merits. So right now it's more the sort of temporary but urgent stage on the part of the president.

SCIUTTO: All right, step one. We'll certainly stay on top of that.

Joan Biskupic --

BISKUPIC: It's a very important step, though. Super important at this point.

SCIUTTO: Yes, I hear you. Well, when it --

BISKUPIC: OK.

[10:00:00]

SCIUTTO: When it happens, I'll bet you we'll give you a phone call. So, stay where you are.

BISKUPIC: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Thanks very much.

BISKUPIC: Thank you.

[10:00:00]