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White House Review Reveals Justifying Trump's Decision on Ukraine Aid; Democrats Hope Impeachment Vote Before Christmas; Navy Secretary Ousted Over Navy SEAL Criminal Case; Overwhelming Historic Turnout in Hong Kong Elections; Young Elephants Captured In Zimbabwe For China's Zoos; Singer And Actress Goo Hara Dead At 28. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired November 25, 2019 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[02:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the United States and all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church and this is "CNN Newsroom." Let's get started.

Record turnout of the polls of Hong Kong and major gains for pro Democracy parties in local elections. We will take you there live.

Plus, caught between the White House politics and military protocol, the U.S. Navy's top official forced out.

And a heartbreaking trade of baby elephants. Our exclusive reporting from Zimbabwe.

Good to have you with us. So we start with the impeachment inquiry facing U.S. President Donald Trump. He's long insisted he did nothing wrong, blocking nearly $400 million in military aid to Ukraine.

But a new report by the "Washington Post" shows there was debate in the White House on whether it was legal after the fact. The "Post" cites a confidential White House review and three people familiar with the records. CNN's Jeremy Diamond has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The White House has been conducting an internal review of President Trump's decision last summer to withhold nearly $400 million in security aid to Ukraine. Now, according to the "Washington Post" that review is turning up hundreds of documents that suggests that White House officials and officials in the Office of Management and Budget were working to draw up a legal justification for that move after the fact.

Again, this reporting suggest that this was yet another instance of a scramble by officials to essentially catch up with another one of President Trump's decisions, the Office of Management and Budget though is denying anything that anything improper took place. Here's a statement from a spokeswoman for the Office of Management and

Budget, Rachel Semmel. She says, "To be clear, there was a legal consensus at every step of the way that the money could be withheld in order to conduct the policy review. OMB works closely with agencies on executing the budget. Routine practices and procedures were followed."

Now, a senior administration official also told me that the legal justification for this temporary freeze on the aid was provided in late July alongside the formal notification that this aid was being frozen.

This official suggested that perhaps the discrepancy involves the fact that this was something that was in the pipeline that was verbally communicated as early as late June but ultimately didn't actually make its way into a formal notification in late July.

There is also in this "Washington Post" an August e-mail exchange that is highlighted between the White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney and the Acting Director of the Office of Management and Budget Russ Vought, which suggests that Mulvaney was asking for an update on that legal justification, again, several weeks after that notification actually occurred.

Now, two senior administration officials who I spoke with said that their requests for an update did not necessarily mean that the rationale, the legal justification wasn't already in place. But what is clear is that this is leading to increased tensions inside a White House that is facing the potential for President Trump to be impeached.

We know that there have already been tensions between Mulvaney and the White House counsel, Pat Cipollone. Tonight, two senior administration officials were once again expressing frustration with the White House Counsel's Office.

One of those officials said that Mulvaney has not yet been informed of any of the findings in that internal review. And another official criticized the White House Counsel's Office suggesting that they were responsible for the leak of these e-mails.

That official said, seems like amateur hour in the White House Counsel's Office. Now, we have also reached out for comments to the White House Press Office as well as the White House Counsel's Office but have not yet received a reply.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Well, sources say the House could vote on impeaching President Trump by Christmas, but that is still a month away and lawmakers aren't finished yet. The House Intelligence Committee and two other panels are writing a report detailing their findings which will go to the Judiciary Committee and the intelligence chairman says there could be more hearings to come.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. ADAM SCHIFF (R-CA): We don't foreclose the possibility of more depositions, more hearings. We are in the process of getting more documents all the time. So that investigative work is going to go on.

[02:04:58]

What we are not prepared to do is wait months and months while the administration plays a game of rope-a-dope in an effort to try to stall. We are not willing to go down that road and what's more, the evidence is already overwhelming.

The remarkable thing about this and we have done this with almost, literally no documentary production from the administration, is the facts are really not contested. It's really not contested what the president did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: And for more I am joined by Natasha Lindstaedt in Birmingham. She is a professor of government at the University of Essex. Thank you so much for being with us.

NATASHA LINDSTAEDT, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF ESSEX: Thank you for having me.

CHURCH: So a report in the "Washington Post" revealing an effort to justify President Trump's decision to block aid to Ukraine coming after the fact and apparently spearheaded by Acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney, what do you make of this and what impact might it have on the impeachment inquiry going forward?

LINDSTAEDT: Well, it's just another piece to the puzzle as to why the military aid was being withheld. I mean, this is really the heart -- at the heart of the impeachment inquiry, that there was nearly $400 million in military aid being withheld from Ukraine.

And from all the testimony that we heard this past week, it seemed to be because Trump wanted the Ukrainians to publicly announce that they're investigating the Bidens and into the 2016 election, and there wasn't one national security official that agreed with why the military aid was being withheld.

Now, we've heard from Trump numerous times that there are all these different reasons, even recently on "Fox & Friends" he said the biggest reason was because all these other European countries were not giving enough aid to Ukraine and the U.S. was always the one giving all the aid. That of course is completely untrue.

But I think this report reveals that the administration was scrambling after they were alerted that the whistleblower was on to them or other individuals within the administration might even onto them and they needed to come up with a reason.

What they were told was that this could be legal if this was a temporary hold, but these e-mails might reveal more information as to what they were speculating that they could do about this. And of course, without a proper reason as to why the military aid was being withheld, most of the people that testified felt that this was clearly being withheld because Trump was trying to pressure the Ukrainians in order to investigate his political opponent.

CHURCH: Right. And we are also learning that Republican Devin Nunes dodged questions on an alleged meeting he had with former Ukraine prosecutor general Victor Shokin, failing to answer whether he did or did it meet with Shokin to discuss the Bidens. What's potentially going on here do you think?

LINDSTAEDT: Well, Nunes sounds like he has a conflict of interest and these reports have been circulating that he has been meeting with Ukrainians in order to get dirt on Trump's political opponents and also to look more into some of these false narratives that the Ukrainians were the ones that were interfering in the 2016 elections and not the Russians.

And this plays into what the Russians were hoping would happen, that the Republicans would take the bait here. But this is a huge conflict of interest if Nunes was taking part in all of these different meetings with the Ukrainians and meeting with representatives of foreign government in order to undermine a political opponent.

So, this explains why he was so adamant that the Republicans shouldn't be cooperating in the impeachment inquiry and that it was all a circus, I think that he may have some things that he is hiding that he wouldn't want to be revealed to the public.

CHURCH: Right and, you know, these are two significant issues, aren't they. Where do they leave the impeachment inquiry in terms of whether they move the needle forward, whether there is something here that the Democrats have been looking for, that smoking gun?

LINDSTEADT: Well, I thought that just the July 25th letter would've been enough, excuse me, the transcript would've been enough because it was pretty clear in that July 25th transcript of the phone call from Trump and Zelensky that he was trying to pressure the Ukrainians using some sort of mafia secret code language, you know, do me a favor though in order to get them to investigate the Bidens.

Since then, we have had evidence after evidence after evidence that has brought in more details about the State Department's involvement about all others individuals of the highest level including Vice President Pence and Acting Chief Mick Mulvaney involvement in the shadow diplomacy effort.

[02:10:00]

And we have a lot of testimony of people that were on the phone call that didn't -- that's going beyond the edited transcript of the phone call that felt that it was completely inappropriate. There has been enough evidence at this point.

But what the recent polls have shown is that independents are not in favor of impeaching the president and in fact it's a slit where it's now up to 49 percent of independents are not in favor impeaching the president and Republicans are stronger than ever in terms of being opposed to this process.

CHURCH: Yes, they are digging their heels in, there is no doubt. They don't think it's impeachable at all. Natasha Lindstaedt, thank you so much for joining us and adding your analysis to all of this. We appreciate it.

LINDSTAEDT: Thanks for having me.

CHURCH: Well, the top civilian at the U.S. Navy has been forced out of his job but the reason why depends on who you ask. While the U.S. Navy secretary is out, convicted Navy SEAL Eddie Gallagher gets to keep his rank and job for now. We get the latest from CNN's Ryan Browne in Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN BROWNE, CNN PENTAGON REPORTER: One of the senior most Pentagon officials fired Sunday night due to the fallout from a high profile war crimes case involving Navy SEAL Eddie Gallagher.

Now, Gallagher had been acquitted of several more serious crimes like murder, but had been convicted of posing with the body of a dead corpse. Now, the Navy's efforts to punish him and become the subject of a high-profile debate with President Trump weighing in saying that the Navy should not strip Gallagher of his status as a Navy SEAL, several times, something that defense officials felt was undermining the Navy discipline process.

Now, Navy Secretary Richard Spencer had said publicly that that process should go ahead, but the Pentagon is saying Sunday night that despite Spencer's public comments, he had actually arranged secret talks with the White House to strike a deal where Gallagher would be allowed to retain his membership in the Navy SEALs.

Now, the Pentagon is saying this is why Spencer was fired and that Gallagher will in fact retain his SEAL status upon leaving the Navy. Now, President Trump tweeting that he had been disappointed with how the Navy had handled the Gallagher case and he had even disappointed with the Navy's inability to reduce cost overruns, something that he said had led to Spencer's ouster.

Now, Spencer himself writing a letter upon being fired saying that he had -- was a strong believer in good order and discipline in the military, saying that's what sets America apart from its adversaries. And that he and President Trump just had a fundamental difference of opinion about the importance of rule law and the importance of good order and discipline, something that he says led to his ouster. Ryan Browne CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Hong Kong voters make their voices heard at the ballot box. When we come back, we will tell you which side came out on top and how the outcome could affect pro-Democracy protests.

Brexit is the top concern but Britain's prime minister is laying out other plans in his parties manifesto. We will have the details for you after the break.

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[02:15:00]

(WORLD SPORTS)

CHURCH: Welcome back everyone. Well, a record turnout in Hong Kong's local election has handed a pro-Democracy parties a landslide win. Local media reports that Democratic candidates have won almost 90 percent of the seats across the city.

Almost 3 million people showed up to vote. They overwhelmingly rejected the establishment government, which is seen as closely aligned with Beijing. Hong Kong chief executive Carrie Lam says she will reflect on the outcome and listen to voters. Meanwhile, a prominent pro-Democracy leader is celebrating the results.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you ever think this was going to happen?

JOSHUA WONG, PRO-DEMOCRACY ACTIVIST: It's a remarkable achievement and efforts of all of the Hongkongers that paid the price and sacrifices for the movement. I never imagine it would happen, but now we are the majority in the District Council to show our cause on freedom and democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: So let's bring in CNN's Will Ripley. He is alive this hour from Hong Kong. Good to see you Will. So, what's been the reaction overall to the results and just how significant were these local elections when it comes to the future of Hong Kong?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this certainly is a turning point for the pro-Democracy movement which has been in this ideological debate with the establishment here in Hong Kong over who has the support of the Hong Kong people.

The establishment has long maintained that there is a majority in this city, a silent majority that supports Beijing and supports the government that works so closely with mainland China. But what this election show it is that in fact the voice of the voters is at least at this point on the side of the Democracy movement itself.

When you have the huge numbers as we saw, you know, line stretching around the block at hundreds of polling sites across Hong Kong and the overwhelming results, you know, 90 percent or more of the seats up for grabs going towards the pro-Democracy lawmakers and, you know, unseating in many cases the establishment.

Well, it certainly is a message, a very clear message that millions of Hongkongers are sending to their government, a government that they say in many cases they no longer trust that has made them angry particularly the actions of Hong Kong police which are viewed by many on the streets here as excessive and disproportionate.

Even though the police have long maintained their only reacting to violent provocations by the protesters themselves including dozens of protesters believed to be still hiding inside the campus of PolyU, which was the battleground just over a week ago -- the scene of as dramatic confrontations between the police and the protesters.

The months of violence apparently have done little to erode the support of the public for those frontline protesters who are pulling out bricks and hurling petrol bombs at officers who then fire back with teargas, water cannon and non-lethal ammunition.

[02:20:00]

But where things go from here, Rosemary, that really is the open question. You have Carrie Lam saying that she respects the outcome of the vote and will listen to the voters, to the people who have spoken.

But then you have China's foreign minister saying that no matter what happens, any attempt to stabilize Hong Kong will not be successful saying that Hong Kong is a part of China no matter what the voters say.

And that is where we now are at a really kind of a turning point. We don't know if this newly energized pro-Democracy movement, which now has a greater number of seats on the local level will be able to actually affect a significant change on the actual, you know, legislative level.

Because remember, these elections, Hong Kong's only example of universal suffrage, they only pick the people who handle hyper local issues, the people who actually make the laws are selected by a system that overwhelmingly favors pro-Beijing voices and this election outcome as dramatic as it was, Rosemary, doesn't change that.

CHURCH: Interesting. Will Ripley bring in the latest on those local elections from Hong Kong -- many thanks.

Well, Holden Chow is among those pro-establishment counselors who lost their seats to pro democracy candidates. He is the vice chairman of the largest pro establishment party, the Democratic Alliance for rhe Betterment And Progress of Hong Kong, the DAB. Thank you so much for talking with us.

HOLDEN CHOW, VICE CHAIRMAN, DAB: Thank you.

CHURCH: So what's your reaction to these local election results and to your own loss?

CHOW: Well, of course, we need to admit that this is a sort of big frustration for us when we met the press this morning to carry out our concession speech. We will carry out and reveal on our work and see what has gone wrong and how we can improve ourselves to do better and serve better in our community.

So, this is a frustration for us of course, but as a political party we always have to learn lessons from elections and hope to improve ourselves to serve people better in the future.

But on the other hand, people express their views via this election and of course, there is a kind of resentment towards the government and as a political party, we are bound to press the government to do better or to sort of listen to the people.

So, that is one thing, but of course we also need to thank the people who supported us yesterday, the volunteers and everyone who support us yesterday in the election.

CHURCH: So, pro-Democracy candidates won almost 90 percent of the available seats driven by that record turnout, nearly 3 million people. Is it time to listen to the voice of the people in Hong Kong?

CHOW: Well, of course it's always, as I said, as a political party, as the government, we are bound to listen to the people. But of course as you might actually understand from the figures, the high turnout rate of course, there's a lot of people turning out to vote, there is also a significant rise of people who vote for the pro establishment camp too.

So, I think these all kinds opinions need to strike a balance between them and we need to listen to people's opinion, but of course we can tell the general atmosphere of the city right now.

CHURCH: Right. And Hong Kong chief executive Carrie Lam says she will sit listen to voters. What does that mean exactly though and we hear from China that it doesn't really matter what the voters say, Hong Kong is part of China and that's the end of it? Will Lam reach out to pro-Democracy protesters for instance and find a way to end hostilities on both sides?

CHOW: Well, of course, as I pointed out time and again, dialog is always important for both sides. I mean, after this election, I think it gave us an opportunity or gave the government an opportunity to reach out to people even on the opposition camp, to try to establish a dialog especially, or to figure out how to resolve the conflict within the city or how to mend the rift.

Because people have already expressed some views via this election, but of course, I have to point out the government, if they see there are some sort of setbacks in the government and see what they have done -- if their policy carry out does not satisfy the people, that it is time for them probably to listen to the people and see how they can strike a balance between the opinions between the two sides and then do better.

[02:25:00]

CHURCH: Right. I mean, I see how humbling this must be for pro establishment candidates, you know, and I see that you are trying to reflect on this, but the problem is that there hasn't been an outrage to these protesters and this has gone on for months, hasn't it?

And now it's really impacting Hong Kong's economy. Something needs to be done. There does need to be a recognition that the young people, particularly, want to have a voice here.

They want to have some sort of voice in where Hong Kong goes from here without feeling that China is going to come down hard and say, I don't care what you say you are a part of china and you as we tell you to do. Is that a message that you want to highlight?

CHOW: Well, I think some of the protesters probably have that sort of feel -- did they have a negative image upon the central government, but, you know, from my perspective I think the central government leads the one country two system principal to be robustly operated.

And I think it's time for us for example, in this sort of conflict, the government needs to reach out to the people who were against them and tell them more explain to them how to resolve this conflict.

And of course, for every move you need to also, you need to also understand under our constitutional framework we are under one country two systems. You can't go too far and say advocate something to which is against one country two systems principle.

So I think it's also a time for the government if they can establish a robust dialog with the protesters to sort of explain this sort of things. I think after all, going forward we do need to reach consensus at some point because otherwise violence or this all mayhem carries on. It will break the city, isn't it?

CHURCH: Yes. Holden Chow, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.

CHOW: Thank you.

CHURCH: We will take a short break here. Still to come, a group of Democrats vying for a shot at the White House just got even larger, more on Michael Bloomberg, the latest to throw his hat into the ring, still to come.

Plus, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu faces a new political headache and after his recent indictment, and it comes from within his own party, we will take a look.

[02:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Rosemary Church. I want to check the headlines for you this hour.

A confidential White House review has turned out e-mail, showing extensive efforts to justify President Donald Trump's decision to block aid to Ukraine after the fact, that according to the Washington Post, the delay in aid, along with a whistleblower complaint, is at the center of the ongoing impeachment inquiry.

The Post says that Acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney sent e-mails in August to the Office of Management and Budget, asking what the legal reasoning could be for withholding the aid. U.S. Navy Secretary Richard Spencer has been forced out of his position. President Trump says it was for the way the Navy handled the case of convicted Navy SEAL Eddie Gallagher, but the Pentagon offers a different account. A Senior Defense official says Spencer tried offering the White House a secret deal for Gallagher, to keep his SEAL status.

Hong Kong's pro-democracy candidates have made major gains over those who support mainland China in local elections. Local media report that they have won almost 90 percent of the district council seats up for grabs. The races are seen as a test of support for the anti- government movement, nearly 3 million people turned out to vote, a record for the city.

Well, former New York mayor and billionaire, Michael Bloomberg, wants to add another title to his resume, President of the United States. On Sunday, he officially announced he was joining the 2020 race, less than three months before the first voting takes place. Bloomberg adds his name to an already long list of Democratic hopefuls. CNN's Cristina Alesci has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN POLITICS AND BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Bloomberg is trying to beat the odds with a rush of money and effort. He is betting that his personal life story, his track record as mayor of New York, and as a philanthropist supporting liberal causes, as well as his role as a leading democratic donor, will help him win the nomination.

Now, let me give you some color on how he's positioning himself. Bloomberg describes himself as a doer and a problem solver, not a talker, in a letter on his website. Now, this letter frames the 2020 election as an existential crisis for the country, and suggests he's the only candidate that can meet those challenges.

He says, "I'm running for president to defeat Donald Trump and rebuild America. We cannot afford four more years of President Trump's reckless and unethical actions. If he wins another term in office, we may never recover from the damage. The stakes could not be higher. We must win this election."

Michael Bloomberg has many accomplishments to tout, but he faces some serious headwinds. Tactically, it's very late in the primary cycle to launch a campaign. Political analysts say no one who has entered the presidential race this late, has ever clenched the nomination in modern U.S. history. And the a few polling data points we have for Bloomberg, don't look great for him.

For example, only four percent of voters picked him as their top choice in a national poll. And there are more substantive hurdles to clear here, for one, he's a billionaire, at a time when the term is being used as an insult. Rising income inequality is a source of anger and frustration for many voters.

Progressive candidates like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are trying to capitalize on those feelings, suggesting that billionaires should be disqualified from running.

Now, Bloomberg may also struggle to win support among black voters, blacks and Latinos were the primary targets of a police tactic called stop-and-frisk, with the New York City Police Department employed while Michael Bloomberg was mayor. And it was only last week that he apologized for not stopping the use of that tactic sooner, but it's unclear whether voters believe it's a sincere apology.

All that said, Bloomberg's net worth is estimated at more than $50 billion according to Forbes. And it's hard to overstate the advantage that wealth gives him. He's also self-funding his campaign. So, sources close to him have told me that the campaign has no budget ceiling.

[02:35:08] He'll spend whatever it takes to beat Donald Trump and Bloomberg himself will spin that as a positive, that he can't be bought by special interests and will make decisions based on whether he thinks they're the right thing to do, free of outside influence. Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Thanks so much for that. Well, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg is back home after being hospitalized over the weekend. She has had a history of health problems during her service as one of the court's liberal voices. CNN's Ariane de Vogue has more now from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN U.S. SUPREME COURT REPORTER: Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was released from the hospital, Sunday. She started feeling ill Friday afternoon. She went to a local hospital, but then was transported by ambulance to Baltimore. That's where some of her doctors are.

She was treated for an infection with antibiotics and her symptoms went away. She is a four-time cancer survivor. Just before this term began, she had treatment for pancreatic cancer. She said that she'll serve as long as she can do the job. But this comes at an important time for the court.

It's currently considering a petition from President Trump who's seeking to block a House subpoena for his financial records. And when the Justices take the bench again on December 2nd, they'll hear a major second amendment case. Ariane de Vogue, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu faces a rare challenge from within his own party, just days after he was indicted on corruption charges. The party plans to hold a leadership vote with one Likud lawmaker challenging Mr. Netanyahu. Paula Newton has more now from Jerusalem.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu returned to work today to a cabinet meeting where he was absolutely silent on the indictment against him. Again, the charges are fraud, breach of trust, and bribery. He denies any of it.

Although, he did not say anything in this cabinet meeting, his rivals, both within his own party and outside of it, would like him to step down.

We get first to the challenge from within the Likud Party. There is one person, Gideon Sa'ar, who has decided that it is time for him to step down. He doesn't say or assume that Netanyahu is guilty. He just says that he should be turning his attention to, in fact, fighting these political charges, not leading Israel.

At the same time, Netanyahu's chief political rival here from the Blue and White Party, Benny Gantz, also again, reiterated his call for him to step down and allow a unity government with the Blue and White Party and the Likud Party to form, for Benny Gantz to become the prime minister.

And for Benjamin Netanyahu, if he wanted to, if he was cleared of these charges, could come in and then assume the role of prime minister again. One thing is clear, Netanyahu continues to fight on, saying he will deny these charges, that he will not resign, and that leaves Israel still in the political stalemate that they have been in now for months. Paula Newton, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: They were roaming in the wild in Zimbabwe, now dozens of baby elephants are in cages, waiting for life in circuses and zoos in China. The heartbreaking story, next, only here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Dozens of young elephants are being held in cages in China, after they were captured and sold by the Zimbabwean government. Officials say the elephants are sold to fund Zimbabwe's conservation efforts and that the practice is totally legal. All these come just days before a treaty goes into effect, blocking Zimbabwe and other countries in Southern Africa from exporting elephants.

CNN's David McKenzie went to the heart of elephant country to investigate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Thirty young wild African elephants, captured, sold, and sent to China. to fill amusement parks and zoos, but first, they will be broken here. This cellphone video is an exclusive look at the latest shipment from Zimbabwe.

In cage after metal cage, the signs of suffering are clear. Just weeks ago, they were among family groups in Hwange National Park.

And what they do when they come and capture this elephant, is they separate the youngsters -- not the very youngest, but the young elephant from the rest of the herd. And scientists say that elephants are incredibly social animals. They develop bonds for a lifetime. And by ripping them away from their families and sending them off to a foreign country, they say it's extremely traumatic for the elephants that go and the elephants that remain.

Despite these concerns, the trade until now has been legal. But that window is closing. New rules preventing overseas shipments from countries like Zimbabwe, come into full effect at the end of November. Zimbabwe park officials say they will abide by those new rules.

CHRISPEN CHIKADAYA, SENIOR INSPECTOR, ZNSPCA: There's no transparency anymore.

MCKENZIE: But animal rights inspector, Chrispen Chikadaya, says he's already seen a shift towards secrecy.

CHIKADAYA: Something is not right.

MCKENZIE: For the past year, officials blocked his team from entering the park, claiming they needed special permits that were not actually required. He fears that the already opaque sales won't end. They'll just go underground.

What was it like being pushed away?

CHIKADAYA: I'm a government-appointed inspector and it's our mandate to see the welfare of those animals. They don't belong to national parks. They belong to the people of Zimbabwe.

MCKENZIE: So now we've got the GPS coordinates of where we think these elephants have been kept. There's some 30 elephants that were shipped to China caused global outrage.

Animal rights activists and park sources told us that just beyond this boom gate, elephants were left behind and were getting prepped to be sent away.

But is it not possible to come in now with you, just to have a look?

CHIKADAYA: Yes, nothing we can do. You know, this space, for all the clients who come here, they are cleared by the manager.

MCKENZIE: We went to management and were repeatedly refused entry. They told us there was nothing to see, but they did agree to an on- camera interview.

Why is Zimbabwe selling elephants to China?

TINASHE FARAWO, SPOKESMAN, ZIMPARKS: As part of our management plan, we have rangers in this park who will spend 21 days in the bush, protecting these animals. They don't have uniforms. They don't have boots. They don't have tents, and they don't have food. As an authority, we believe that the elephants much pay for their upkeep. They must also pay for their protection.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is one of the elephant affected on the drought here.

[02:44:59]

MCKENZIE: But protection for Zimbabwe's wild elephants is far from assured. Elephants are dying, more than 200 in just the last few months. Succumbing to the severe drought that's hit the region.

In this lean season, elephants in the wild are suffering too. But ranger Oscar Sibanda says, better to let nature take its course.

And do you think it's good that some elephants are sent away to zoos in China, Pakistan, the U.S.?

OSCAR SIBANDA, HWANGE RANGER, ZIMBABWE: No, I don't think it's wise. We have to be proud of our country. These are our animals, our children, their children.

MCKENZIE: But these elephants taken from Zimbabwe remain trapped far from home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: And David McKenzie, joins us now live from Johannesburg in neighboring South Africa. And just so disturbing, I mean, for all the viewers I know, people want to see some sort of action here, protection of these elephants, and particularly the babies.

MCKENZIE: Well, that's right, Rosemary. And certainly, those rules might help the CITES treaty which governs the export of animal products internationally. They did come up with a ruling that is quite murky according to former CITES officials. That says that Zimbabwe and other southern African countries shouldn't send wild elephant outside of Africa.

But as I said in that report, there is a sense that this might continue in some shape or form, if not in Zimbabwe, but in other countries, further in east Africa and the rest of the continent. Where because of the weird nature of this treaty, they may still be able to do this.

I'm not -- I think another important thing to stress, speaking to scientists throughout reporting the story, they say that elephants are just not the right kind of animal because of their incredible intelligence to place in zoos and circuses.

They say while there is criticism of Zimbabwe, and China, and Pakistan, and other countries that are bringing elephants, they say, well, it's not that different from what is going on in the U.S. and U.S. and Europe. They say it's more question of degree, not in terms of the actual actions that are going on. And in fact, in that debate and that vote where they stop this, the U.S. voted against stopping this practice.

So, there is a general change in perceptions, as scientists learn more about elephants to try to stop them from being confined like this. Rosemary?

CHURCH: Thank you so much for shedding light on this story, very disturbing as it is. David McKenzie bringing us the very latest on this from Johannesburg, many thanks.

Well, the music world loses another voice, more on the death of the second K-pop star in two months. Plus a BBC journalist describes her recent interview with Prince Andrew, which has led to major backlash for the duke of York. Back with that in just a moment.

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[02:51:45]

CHURCH: Well, fans are paying tribute to beloved K-pop star Goo Hara, who was found dead on Sunday. She was reportedly discovered at her home in Seoul. So far, police have not commented on how she died.

The South Korean singer and actress debuted with the girl band Kara in 2008. She later left the band launching a career as a solo artist. Her last post on Instagram shared with her 1.5 million followers Saturday was a picture of herself in bed with the caption, good night.

In May, Goo was found unconscious in her home after posting the word goodbye on her Instagram. She was taken to the hospital and later apologized to fans for causing concern.

But the episode reignited debate over the intense pressure of K-pop stardom, which critics say is fueled by harsh online criticism of performers whose death comes just over a month after K-pop star Sulli was found dead in Seoul in a suspected suicide after struggling with online bullying. And in 2017, K-pop star Kim Jong-hyun was also found dead of a parent suicide.

Korean pop music or K-pop is one of South Korea's biggest exports in the past decade. Many of its stars known as idols are trained and groomed for years before they are allowed to debut their first song.

Well, the BBC's Emily Maitlis, says Prince Andrew seemed authentic during her interview that aired just over a week ago. It was the first time Prince Andrew spoke publicly about his friendship with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, and it was widely seen as a disaster.

The prince was viewed as lacking sympathy for Epstein's victims. One of Epstein's accusers claims he forced her into a sexual encounter with Prince Andrew when she was underage.

The prince has repeatedly denied the accusation in palace statements. He has stepped back from public duties and several organizations and companies severed ties with him. Maitlis told CNN's Brian Stelter, is she knew the interview would be closely watched?

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EMILY MAITLIS, PRESENTER, BBC NEWS: In one way, it was a very straightforward interview. I knew that we only had one shot at this. There were no previous interviews like it, there was nothing I could go to, to try and compare it with old answers. It was an interview about getting information.

And it was an interview that I knew would be watched by women who had been girls, whose lives had been turned upside down by Jeffrey Epstein. And whose lives in some cases have been damaged irreparably. And I knew that there would be answers that they were looking for.

So, the whole strategy as far as you can call it one of the interview was just to try and get information on every step of the way, understand the reasons he made certain decisions. Understand his presence or his absence. Understand why he'd agree to things when he'd last seen Ghislaine Maxwell. It was just about trying to get in the most forensic way possible, an understanding of the whole picture.

[02:55:00]

MAITLIS: Because we had scraps, we had the photograph, we had sightings, we had little bits of CCTV, we had witness accounts, and then, we had the deposition in court of the women themselves.

And for me, the most important thing was just to take all the information and try -- and try and get a narrative that actually people sitting at home could understand.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: At one point he said he used to not be able to sweat and that partly as part of his denial about these allegations. Did he seem truthful to you? Did he seem sincere?

MAITLIS: Do you know what it's for -- it's for other people to decide whether what they saw and what they heard made sense. And whether they think he was telling the truth in what he said.

But from my perspective, he seemed authentic. He seemed candid in his desire to engage with the questions. And as you well know as an interviewer that's all you can ask for.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Prince Andrew told Maitlis, he had never met the woman who made the allegations against him. He even suggested a photo of the two of them together was fake.

And thank you so much for joining us. I'm Rosemary Church. I'll be back with more news in just a moment. You're watching CNN.

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