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Polling Stable After Public Impeachment Hearings; Philadelphians Split on Impeachment Pacing; New Fire in California. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired November 26, 2019 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: -- looking at Giuliani for criminal activity.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Well, this is what's unclear. We know that prosecutors are looking at Giuliani's businesses, relationship with these men. Whether it crosses the line into criminal activity has yet to be seen.

SCIUTTO: Understood, OK.

So Fruman and Parnas, they've already been charged. They have interest in cooperating to lessen their sentences. What should Giuliani's concern be, that they flip on him?

SCANNELL: Well, you know, these two men have been working with Giuliani on his campaign in the Ukraine to find dirt on the Bidens. They've introduced him to Ukrainians. So to the extent that prosecutors are looking down that road, they would have a lot of insight into what Giuliani was doing, what he was thinking, you know, what orders he was taking.

And the -- one of those men, Parnas, his lawyer has been pretty active, talking to the press, trying to offer up, you know, give a taste of what story Parnas could tell. He's trying to get congressional investigators interested in that. So at least as far as the impeachment inquiry goes, you know, they look like they want some information that they want to share to the public.

SCIUTTO: Right. Kara Scannell, we know you'll stay on top of the story. Thanks very much.

Joining me now, CNN's senior political analyst David Gergen, former advisor to Presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton. Lots to talk about today, David. Let's start, if we can, just briefly on Giuliani here. You know, his associates, already charged. Clearly, the investigation at least looking into Giuliani's own involvement in this business here. What is your sense of the legal dangers for the president's personal attorney?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think we need to start by saying, he's not been charged with anything. Actually (ph), we have no hard evidence. So we have to start there. But we do know the investigators are circling. And they seem to be

closing in on his business, certainly, Giuliani associates. And it becomes increasingly unclear just what business he's in. He's got his -- he works as a lawyer, you know, and he works as, in effect, as a lobbyist, but he also wears the presidential hat. And so that is confusing for people.

Just -- Jim, as you know, just as we were going on the air, this second, the Washington Post has published a piece, saying that Rudy Giuliani went to -- was -- had as a client, then (ph) a very rich Venezuelan energy baron. And met with him in Madrid, and then went and represented him to the Justice Department to make sure he didn't get indicted on some charges that the Justice Department was looking at.

So we don't know all the facts in this, but it's one more example of, who does he represent when? And it's very murky, and it's not what I think is very appealing. I do think that Rudy Giuliani, at some point, he's going to be held more accountable, whether it's in the context of this impeachment or it's something else, but there is -- he's -- definitely looks like he's facing some hard questions.

SCIUTTO: No, fair enough. And this is a story, again, from the "Post." Wealthy Venezuelan hosted Giuliani as he pursued Ukraine campaign, then Giuliani lobbied the Justice Department on his behalf. And it, you know, gets to this issue, which we've heard before, which is pay-to-play. So let's --

GERGEN: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- we'll set that aside for a moment as we learn more about it.

I do want to talk about what the latest steps in development in the impeachment inquiry. You saw CNN's latest polling, showing that public support for impeachment stands at 50 percent -- we should say impeachment and removal, that is key -- 50 percent.

GERGEN: That's important, important.

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: No -- no small number at any time, but unchanged from October, prior to the public impeachment hearings. And I wonder from your perspective, does that mean the Democrats, in effect, failed to make their case to the public?

GERGEN: Well, it certainly falls below what the Democrats hoped they would mobilize through the hearings. You know, they -- Nancy Pelosi has made it clear right from the beginning, they would like more public support because that public support could translate into votes in the Senate.

Republican senators will be watching these polls carefully. And if the national polls really haven't changed very much -- and it appears -- apparently they moved a little bit in favor of the Democrats. That's a disappointment for the Democrats, they won't want to talk about it but that's the way they'll see it.

And very importantly, Jim, as you know, if the national numbers are stable or just moving a little bit, there is concern also among Democrats about the swing states. There was a poll out of Wisconsin a few days ago, that really set off some alarm bells, where it showed in a very pivotal state that the president has actually taken a lead in a head to -- one-on-one contest with Biden and with other Democrats.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And there was some -- there was some New York Times reporting in just a couple of weeks ago, again in those swing states, showing the president with strength in those states.

GERGEN: Yes.

SCIUTTO: We seem to be hurdling, then, towards a party-line vote on impeachment. We didn't see any wavering among Republicans following the public hearings, and might even have some Democrats who peel over. What are the political consequences for Democrats if that vote proceeds purely on a party-line basis?

GERGEN: Well, I don't think you can blame the Democrats for Republicans not coming over. You know, the Republicans themselves, I think, are playing with fire, being -- refusing to acknowledge anything even went wrong. I mean, they're making it all up to be a hoax of some sort. And I don't think that's going to sit well with the public.

[10:35:11]

I do think, Jim, in the next two, three, four weeks, there is still the possibility that public opinion will move. We're going to be -- we're going to have documents that are going to come out, and we're going to have written statements, we're going to have a trial. And there are several key star witnesses who are still hiding behind, you know, the stone wall the president has erected.

If they can get -- they can flush those out. And I think the public is going to say, wait a minute, you guys -- to the Republicans, you guys are not letting the people who know anything, talk. And then you claim that, well, we don't have any evidence. Well --

SCIUTTO: True, but --

GERGEN: -- the evidence is, you're suppressing it.

SCIUTTO: But the White House has been blocking those witnesses --

GERGEN: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- for months, and they haven't paid a political consequence for it.

GERGEN: Yes they have. Yes. Well, we don't know whether the McGahn -- you know -- well, let's just see what happens with Bolton in the next few days. I don't think we know for sure.

But I think the absence of star witnesses, their refusal to turn over documents, I -- but from my point of view, the Democrats ought to be raising much more hell about that. They ought to be really, really coming down hard on it because it is handicapping their investigation.

SCIUTTO: Yes. You could say obstruction is working. David Gergen, always good to have you on --

GERGEN: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- thanks very much.

GERGEN: OK, Jim. Take care.

SCIUTTO: Well, CNN heads to a key state ahead of the 2020 election. Hear from the voters themselves on that issue of impeachment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:41:10]

SCIUTTO: The impeachment process is still under way. But in one key battleground state, some Democrats wish it was already over. CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich is live in Philadelphia.

Pennsylvania, as we know of course, Vanessa, went for Trump by slim margins in 2016. It's a key battleground in 2020. What are you hearing there from Democratic voters?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Jim. Well, you would be hard-pressed to find a more Democratic part of Pennsylvania than right here in the heart of downtown Philadelphia. We spoke to Democratic voters who say they want to see this impeachment process play out, but they also want to see it wrapped up and finished sooner rather than later.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

YURKEVICH (voice-over): it's the holiday season in Philadelphia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have a nice Turkey Day.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): But hanging over the thought of Thanksgiving dinner? Impeachment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My family's all Democrat, so I'm excited to talk about it with them because we're all on the same page.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'll still be talking about impeachment when he's already president for a second term.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): Democrats, sounding off in the city, one of the bluest parts of Pennsylvania, a state President Trump won by a slim margin in 2016.

MARTA LAFFERTY, PHILADELPHIA DEMOCRAT: Both Republicans and Democrats need to get this behind them.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): Even a strong cup of coffee can't shake Democrat Marta Lafferty from her impeachment fatigue.

LAFFERTY: I am tired, I really am.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): Tired of it all?

LAFFERTY: I am tired of it all. I really am. I didn't think I'd ever say that because I'm such a political animal.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): Across the breakfast diner, fellow Democrats Richard (ph) Kaser (ph) and Rhett (ph) Evans (ph) want to see the process play out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think he'll be convicted, but it all needs to be laid out and the American people need to hear the full story. It's not going to affect the elections. I think he's going to remain in power --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- and the Republicans are going to remain in power. And --

YURKEVICH: Well, what is the point of an impeachment inquiry that ends in the Senate, where you think that he will be re-elected again?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hear what you're saying. I'm not sure I have an answer to it, other than we should be in search of truth.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): On her morning walk --

JENNIFER RYSHAK, PHILADELPHIA DEMOCRAT: Give me a big high five, yes.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): -- Jennifer Ryshak, also in search of the truth.

RYSHAK: Would I much rather everyone's time being put towards growing the nation, making the economy better? Yes. But, you know, at the same time, you can't just have somebody in there not being accountable and conducting themselves the way that it's happening.

GEORGE JEVREMOVIC, PHILADELPHIA IMPEACHMENT SUPPORTER: OK.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): George Jevremovic makes furniture at his shop, Material Culture. He also makes these.

JEVREMOVIC: So you've got the button that says, "Lock him up," and you've got the shirt that says, "Lock him up."

YURKEVICH: What kind of a statement are you hoping that these make?

JEVREMOVIC: Iconic, memorable, direct.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): Jevremovic, a die-hard Obama supporter -- JEVREMOVIC: But, yes. Here's -- this is Barack Obama.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): -- thinks Trump should have been out of office long before the impeachment inquiry.

YURKEVICH: Is this completely distracting from the Democrats' opportunity to find a frontrunner that could beat President Trump?

JEVREMOVIC: It's not more distracting than anything else that's been going on the last three years. It just happens to be the distraction of the moment.

YURKEVICH (voice-over): But like every Democrat we spoke to here, he doesn't think the president will be removed from office.

JEVREMOVIC: That's not going to happen. But the fact that we've done this process is, in and of itself, enough.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YURKEVICH: And as this impeachment process plays out, Democratic voters here are now turning their sights on 2020, especially for the undecideds. They're still looking for that frontrunner that they think can take on Donald Trump.

But as these late entrants get into the race, like Michael Bloomberg, Deval Patrick, it is making it even harder, Jim, for these Democrats to figure out who may be able to take on Trump as this race is very much still fluid --

[10:45:02]

SCIUTTO: Yes.

YURKEVICH: -- and very much still wide-open -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: No question, it's going to be tight. Vanessa Yurkevich, thanks very much.

Harrowing escapes in California as a new wildfire races towards homes there. Let's look at those pictures. We're going to be live, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Back now with just this terrifying video out of California. Visibility nearly zero, this is Highway 154, drivers rushing for their lives, fleeing these heavy flames in and around Santa Barbara. Officials there, now saying the fire simply out of control.

[10:50:16]

CNN's Nick Watt, he is there with the latest on what's known as the Cave Fire. Nick, you know, I feel like we've talked about this every week. You know, another out-of-control fire in California, tell us the situation as you see it there. NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're right, Jim. It is Groundhog Day

once again. We've just been told 4100 acres have burned. Officially, this fire, zero percent contained. At this point, there were 600 firefighters working overnight to try and contain the flames. Right now, they're pretty much just letting it burn this hillside up in the Santa Ynez Mountains, couple of fire trucks stationed up there just to make sure it does not jump this 154 highway and head down towards the populated -- more populated areas.

Now, as always, Jim, the crucial thing is the wind. The wind has been blowing, pretty slim now. It's not even blowing my little bit of hair around that much. But that is what they have their eyes on. The wind will drop this afternoon, pick up again overnight. But we are also forecast for a little bit of rain, one or two inches, coming in later this evening and continuing over the next few days.

Now, that might help douse some flames, but it's not going to be enough to end California's fire season. This will continue on, as we see every year now at this time of year, these fires popping up.

So right now, this is where the flames are. No structures have been destroyed yet. But as I say, 600 firefighters trying their hardest, coming from all over Southern California and trying their hardest to keep it that way, to keep this fire as under control as they possibly can -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Nick Watt, we know you'll be on it. Thanks very much.

Another story we're following, back-to-back winter storms will wreak havoc for tens of millions of people this busy holiday week. Really, the last thing you want to hear but it's the facts. Look at that there. This is Denver right now, heavy snow, snarling traffic there, hundreds of flights cancelled, 500 at this point -- of course that's a big hub airport, that's going to cause a lot of trouble for travelers going around the country.

Meteorologist Chad Myers in the Weather Center with more. So, Chad, give us the bad news. Any good news, please?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good news is, if you want to make a snowman, it's out there. It's Denver. Right now, Estes Park, now 31 inches of snow in 24 hours. This is zoomed in on Denver right there. Denver, that little spot right there. But it's snowing across Nebraska and Kansas.

I-76, I-70, all really shut down at this point in time. And we will have a severe weather event later on this afternoon across Memphis and Paducah, maybe all the way down to Louisiana.

Now, alter on today and into Wednesday, the storm does pull away from North Platte and Omaha and on up into the U.P. of Michigan. But the eastern half of this storm is wet. And in fact, it will be lightning and maybe even thunder and the potential for a tornado or two.

This is not the cold side. We have big storms that could pop up here in the yellow and the orange, and that could slow down airports, slow you down if you're driving as well.

Back out here to the west, you talked about, Nick -- you heard him talk about those two inches of rainfall that are possible here. There's 40 inches of snow possible in the Sierra, with a very big storm going to affect that area over the next 24 hours.

Travel over the Sierra will be nearly impossible with white-out conditions. You're going to have to wait for the plows to get through that and for the wind to die off. Eastern half of the country, all wet. Western half, all white.

And we're going to have slow travel tomorrow. Big day traveling at the airports. Northeast are going to be slow, Cleveland, Chicago going to be slow. And the wind in San Francisco could maybe close and -- or shut down as many planes as the show did in Denver. So it's going to be tough getting out tomorrow. Better on Thursday, but tomorrow's the big day.

SCIUTTO: Thanks, Chad. Always good to talk to you around the holidays.

MYERS: I know.

SCIUTTO: Now, thanks for bringing us the latest. We appreciate it.

MYERS: You bet.

[10:54:20]

SCIUTTO: Coming up, time to talk turkey. Meet Bread and Butter. Which lucky bird will get the official presidential pardon? Somehow, they've scored themselves a five-star hotel room in Washington. Pardon's coming up soon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Just moments from now, the online voting for which turkey gets pardoned today by President Trump will end. Your choices today are Bread or Butter.

TEXT: Meet "Bread." Birthday: July 11, 2019; Weight: 45 lbs.; Favorite music: Bluegrass; Favorite sport: College basketball; Goal: Mastering aerial yoga

SCIUTTO: Bread, we're told, likes Bluegrass music and college basketball, weighs in at 45 pounds.

TEXT: Meet "Butter." Birthday: July 11, 2019; Weight: 47 lbs.; Favorite music: Bagpipes; Favorite sport: NASCAR; Goal: Turkey trot personal best

SCIUTTO: Butter is a fan of the bagpipes and hopes to hit a personal best in the turkey trot.

Since arriving in Washington on Sunday, the two birds somehow have been relaxing at the Willard Intercontinental Hotel near the White House. But regardless of which bird gets pardoned, don't worry, both are going to retire to the Gobblers Rest farm in Virginia.

Thanks so much for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciutto. "AT THIS HOUR" with Kate Bolduan starts right now.

[11:00:05]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR, AT THIS HOUR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. Thank you so much for joining me. We are watching and waiting for --