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Former Navy Chief Says Trump Doesn't Share Military's Values; CNN Poll Shows No Change in Views on Impeachment After Hearings; Pennsylvania Democratic Voters Weigh in on Impeachment; Three Wrongfully Convicted Men Freed after 36 Years; Manhunt Underway in Historic Haul of Stolen Treasure. Aired 3:30-4p ET
Aired November 26, 2019 - 15:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:30:00]
RICHARD DANZIG, FORMER NAVY SECRETARY, CLINTON ADMINISTRATION: Good order and discipline in the military depends on notions of
procedure that are well established of respect for a hierarchy of officers and respective for an effective rule of law. And what he said is, I'll do away with all that. I'll essentially make the decisions in this particular case. I don't want to await what the Navy had proposed to do, which is allow a group of SEALs, highly trained and well-regarded officers, and enlisted men and women to make decisions about whether a particular member should remain in good standing with them. Instead he said, I've decided that he should remain.
And that is, I think, extraordinarily disruptive and undermines in the end the important dependence the troops have on trusting one another and their sense of honor. Making decisions about one another and respecting senior officers who make judgments in regard to what's proper. So in that sense I don't think he has their back. I think he's undermining the military institution.
BALDWIN: So as a result of that thinking, you know, as you write, you say the military is not an extension of White House. But before his firing then Secretary Spencer himself made the point that the President is still the Commander in Chief. You know, he does have the final say. So what do you mean by the military is not an extension of the White House?
DANZIG: Well, the President is Commander in Chief, and if ultimately the military processes lead to a result and he thinks it's a wrong result he has the power to overturn it. What we see here, though, is his usurping the system by saying, I will at the outset of a procedure with respect to determining whether someone should remain honored in the SEALs, I will make a determination and it's done and over. And that in the end undercuts the authority of the leaders of that community.
The individual concerned was charged with a variety of serious things. The issue that remains is whether his conduct having been acquitted of murder and the like but nonetheless convicted of having boasted about his knife skills in front of a corpse of -- BALDWIN: A dead ISIS fighter.
DANZIG: Someone he had been fighting.
BALDWIN: Right. Right.
DANZIG: That conduct, yes, that conduct is condemnable under all our procedures. And the question is how do punish him? And the President has made his determination.
BALDWIN: Understand, and you know, we're having the conversation because of Eddie Gallagher. And I was reading "The Daily Beast" this morning and they are reporting that the President is telling allies that he wants absolved war criminals like an Eddie Gallagher to campaign for him for President for 2020. What's your reaction to that?
DANZIG: My reaction to that is that we pushed a bad situation into a worse one if that's where the President takes it. You know, our allies are an important part of this, our senior Republican retired official wrote that one of the problems with the President's action is that he undermines the credibility of our judicial system, our military judicial system, in the eyes of our allies. And agreements that we have with foreign countries that they will allow U.S. officers to be adjudicated within the U.S. military system and not in their own country's system when acts occur abroad. They depend on the good faith of our system, and its credibility. The President undermines that and, in that sense, also he jeopardizes our troops.
BALDWIN: Secretary Danzig. Thank you very much. Nice to have you on.
DANZIG: You're welcome. Thank you.
BALDWIN: Coming up next, a new CNN poll shows no change in public attitudes towards impeachment despite those five days of public hearings. We are in the battleground state of Pennsylvania to hear from voters and find out why.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VENESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: What is the point of an impeachment inquiry that ends in the Senate where you think that he will be reelected again?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hear what you're saying, I'm not sure I have an answer to it. Other than we should be in search of truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: One week after the public hearings of the House Democrats impeachment inquiry into President Trump, public opinion over whether this President ought to be impeached and removed from office remains exactly the same as it was last month. According to a new CNN poll, 50 percent of voters remain in favor of impeaching and removing him, 43 percent against it. But when you look a little further at the numbers, more than 60 percent of women now say Trump should go, and there is slight uptick in the number of men who want him to stay.
And when you look at it by party lines still very partisan as expected. You see 90 percent of Democrats say yes, 10 percent of Republicans. But when you look at the steady change in the numbers over time, eight months ago back in March the country was at 36 percent impeachment compared to now.
Support for impeachment coming into focus among Democrats in Pennsylvania. The state is historically blue but President Trump inched out a very slim victory there in 2016.
And Venessa Yurkevich is our CNN business and politics correspondent and she talked to voter there about how the impeachment hearings have impacted or not. What'd they think?
[15:40:05]
YURKEVICH: Hi, Brooke. Well, you would be hard pressed to find more Democrats in Pennsylvania then right here in downtown Philadelphia. We spoke to Democratic voters who say they want to see this impeachment process through but they also hope it gets wrapped up sooner rather than later.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YURKEVICH (voice-over): It's the holiday season in Philadelphia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have a nice Turkey day!
YURKEVICH: But hanging over the thought of Thanksgiving dinner, impeachment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My family's all Democrat. So I'm excited to talk about it with them because we're all on the same page.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'll still be talking about impeachment when he's already President for a second term.
YURKEVICH: Democrats sounding off in the city. One of the bluest parts of Pennsylvania. A state President Trump won by a slim margin in 2016.
MARTA LAFFERTY, PHILADELPHIA DEMOCRAT: Both Republicans and Democrats need to get this behind them.
YURKEVICH: Even a strong cup of coffee can't shake Democrat Marta Lafferty from her impeachment fatigue.
LAFFERTY: I am tired. I really am.
YURKEVICH: Tired of it all. LAFFERTY: I am tired of it all. I really am. I didn't think I'd
ever say that because I'm such a political animal.
YURKEVICH: Across the breakfast diner fellow Democrats Richard Kaser And Rhett Evans who want to see the process play out.
RICHARD KASER, PHILADELPHIA DEMOCRAT: I don't think he'll be convicted. But -- it all needs to be laid out and the American people need to hear the full story. It's not going to affect elections. I think he's going to remain in power and the Republicans are going to remain in power.
YURKEVICH (on camera): Well, what is the point of an impeachment inquiry that ends in the Senate where you think that he will be re- elected again?
KASER: I hear what you're saying and I'm not sure I have an answer to it, other than, we should be in search of truth.
YURKEVICH (voice-over): On her morning walk. Jennifer Ryshak, also in search of the truth.
JENNIFER RYSHAK, PHILADELPHIA DEMOCRAT: Would I much rather everyone's time be put towards growing the nation, making the economy better, yes. But, you know, at the same time, you can't just have somebody in there not being accountable and conducting themselves the way that it's happening.
GEORGE JEVREMOVIC, SUPPORTS IMPEACHMENT: OK.
YURKEVICH: George Jevremovic makes furniture at his shop. Material culture. He also makes these.
JEVREMOVIC: So you've got the button that says, lock him up. And you've got the shirt that says, lock him up.
YURKEVICH (on camera): What kind of a statements are you hoping that these make?
JEVREMOVIC: Iconic. Memorable. Direct.
YURKEVICH (voice-over): Jevremovic, a diehard Obama supporter --
JEVREMOVIC: But yes here's -- this Barack Obama
YURKEVICH: Thinks Trump should have been out of office long before the impeachment inquiry.
(on camera): Is this completely distracting from the Democrat's opportunity to find a frontrunner that could beat President Trump?
JEVREMOVIC: It's not more distracting than anything else that's been going on the last three years. It just happens to be the distraction of the moment.
YURKEVICH (voice-over): But like every Democrat we spoke to here, he doesn't think the President will be removed from office.
JEVREMOVIC: That's not going to happen, but the fact that we've done this process is in and of itself enough.
YURKEVICH (on camera): As impeachment continues to play out Democratic voters are now turning their sights on 2020. Undecided voters are still looking for that front-runner that can take on President Trump. But with new entrants into the race like Michael Bloomberg and Deval Patrick, it's making that decision even harder in this wide-open field. Vanessa Yurkevich, CNN, Philadelphia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Nice to hear from voters. Vanessa, thank you.
This Thanksgiving will be the first in 36 years that three men from Baltimore will get to spend with their families. They just walked out of prison after their wrongful convictions were overturned. We have the whole story, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW STEWART, FREED AFTER 36 YEARS IN PRISON ON WRONGFUL CONVICTION: I didn't know how to stop crying until a friend of mine came to me, hugged me and said, man, your journey is coming to an end. But it's not. My journey is just beginning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: On Thanksgiving Day, 36 years ago, there were three men in Baltimore who were arrested and charged with the murder of a 14-year- old teenager over a sports jacket. And 36 years later, just days before Thanksgiving, these same three men are free, released from prison because it turns out they were wrongfully convicted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANSOM WATKINS, FREED AFTER 36 YEARS IN PRISON ON WRONGFUL CONVICTION: This journey for us has been rough. We all inside them walls but on the inside, hate to put it like this, we went through hell. It wasn't easy. You see us out here we smiling, we happy that we're free but we got a lot to fix. This should have never happened. Us three standing here should have never happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Brynn Gingras is our CNN national correspondent with the story behind this stunning change of fate. I mean, --
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Speechless, right?
BALDWIN: I'm furious. GINGRAS: I know. I know and they're not. That's the amazing thing.
They're grateful and now they want to pay it forward in some aspects. We'll get to that in a second. But first, you gave pretty much a good back story there.
[15:50:00]
But you talk about that sports jacket. That at time was the smoking gun according to police. They basically said they found a sports jacket similar to the one the victim was wearing in the home of Alfred Chestnut and that's despite at trial his mother saying, I have a receipt for this jacket. There was no evidence of blood stains or gunpowder residue or anything, yet they still were convicted and sentenced, all three men to life in prison.
OK, so, set that aside. Now, move forward, and they are in prison, they're maintaining their innocence and the same Alfred Chestnut, he files an information request about his case. This was under seal by the judge but he was able to obviously get information about his case. Uncovers all this unseen evidence including the fact that some of these witnesses were interrogated in groups and told to get your stories straight allegedly by police.
The fact that an anonymous phone call came out saying, hey, we actually saw the shooter wearing that jacket and actually confessing to this murder, and all of that was kept from the defense of the three men at the time.
So then this Chestnut along with his lawyers, the two men's other lawyers, they bring it to the State's Attorney's office, the Baltimore Conviction Integrity Unit. This is a unit that's being sort of revamped in Baltimore by the State's Attorney and they overturned this conviction and now they have a voice. I want you to hear more from them and their families.
BALDWIN: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALFRED CHESTNUT, FREED AFTER 36 YEARS IN PRISON ON WRONGFUL CONVICTION: Oh, man, I'm telling you, it is out of this world. Oh, whew, man. I've been always dreaming this for this day. I've been dreaming of this day.
MARY STEWART, MOTHER OF ANDREW STEWART: This is the first time I have been able to hug my son in about 20 some years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GINGRAS: I mean you can't help but feel so good for that mother. But I mean there is another one of those men that his family all passed away, the immediate family passed away while he was in prison.
But other good side, one of the other men, his fiance who he has been was dating since before he went to prison, as teenagers, they got engaged while in prison and now they get to spend Thanksgiving together. So there is a bright side but all them are vowing to, you know, pay it forward, help those who are wrongfully convicted, serve as mentors and so we -- I expect to see more of them.
BALDWIN: Gratitude, gratitude, gratitude but at the same time, man, I mean that's a lot of lost years. I would love to -- love to talk to them. Brynn Gingras, thank you so much for that.
GINGRAS: All right.
BALDWIN: Any moment now the President leaves the White House for a rally in Florida. We'll be watching to see if he answers any questions on the impeachment hearing set for next week. Also ahead, more than a billion dollars worth of jewelry stolen in a brazen heist in Germany. We have details on the suspects who are still on the run.
[15:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: The manhunt in Germany continues today following this massive and stunning jewel heist. Dresden police say thieves broke into one of Europe's oldest museum making off with priceless treasures and artifacts. Security video shows two of the suspects breaking into the castle vault using an ax to smash through the glass and steal the treasures. The value of the stolen items is apparently so
great authorities say the worth is simply incalculable.
Melissa Bell is in Dresden for us. And Melissa, what else do you know? They haven't caught them, have they?
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They haven't caught them, Brooke, and what we've had again this afternoon is a second appeal from local police really urging people to bring forward any information they might have. They have created a special portal so that people can upload pictures or video, anything to help them find these thieves. And I think what's remarkable and what that tells really, Brooke, is that so far, they really are no closer to working out who was responsible or where the treasures are tonight.
And as you say, these are treasures of inestimable value. First of all inherently in their monetary sense but also historically and culturally. These are jewels, these are treasures, that are really part of the history of this world. A collection that was begun in the 18th century by the ruler of Saxony house here in the Dresden Museum behind me, in the Dresden castle, taken by the Red Army to Moscow after the Second World War and only returned to this restored museum and put on display in the last 15 years, Brooke.
Tonight, we don't know how the perpetrators who clearly carried out a fairly elaborate scheme to be able to get into this building and out in just a few minutes carrying all that treasure. We have no idea where they are, who they are or where that treasure is this evening, Brooke. So the police continue that manhunt, 20 officers on the case trying to work out both how the men got in and out that quickly and apparently that easily, and where they could have gone from there. We know that they used an Audi to flee the scene, that car was later
found burned out nearby and beyond that they appear to have vanished into thin air -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: You always here people say a million dollars was stolen, half a million dollars, and you hear them say it is inestimable is something I've never heard before. I hope they catch them. Melissa Bell, thank you, in Dresden.
And before we go, some congratulations are in order for 32 college students. This year's Rhodes Scholars have just been announced. They'll be studying at the University of Oxford starting next year. And in a political climate, where the contributions of immigrants have been denigrated, it is noteworthy that nearly half of this year's recipients are first generation Americans.
This class is also the third consecutive year that the majority are minorities. Among them the first black female president of the Harvard's newspaper, "The Harvard Crimson" and the very first transgender woman selected for the program. So to all of the scholars, congratulations. Go get them.
I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me. "THE LEAD" starts right now.
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