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Democrats Extend Impeachment Deadline for White House; Several Wounded in Stabbing in Netherlands; Police Kill Suspect in Deadly London Bridge Terror Attack. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired November 29, 2019 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:02]

RYAN NOBLES, CNN HOST: Let's break down exactly what we know at this stage with Nic Robertson, who's our international diplomatic editor, and also Paul Cruickshank, who is an international terrorism expert.

Nic, let's start with you.

It's been two years since the last terror incident, and that happened right on London Bridge, similar in this respect, that there were stabbing involved in that as well. London recently lowering its threat levels. Is there anything we should take from that? And does it have anything to do with what we saw today?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, I think, obviously, this will feed back into the, outside a political, independent analysis that the intelligence agencies make in the U.K. about the threat levels that -- the intelligence that they have, the broader picture that they have, the number of cases of terrorists that they're tracking.

So, obviously, this will feed back into it. What did they learn from this person? Who's he connected to? Was he acting individually? Are there others that could be acting off the back of his attack? So that would -- that would change their view.

But, yes, it's now at the mid-level, which is substantial, which means that there's a strong possibility of an attack. If you go back a couple of years, Britain's very flexible in this threat level. Remember the Manchester -- the attack in Manchester at a pop venue there?

More than about 20 people were killed. And the threat level went up to the maximum level there, meaning another threat was imminent, but, very quickly, the authorities took it back down again that summer. And so when we saw it taken down earlier this year, that really recognizes the broader perception across intelligence agencies across Europe that the threat level was waning.

This concern about ISIS fighters coming back in numbers from Iraq and Syria, this was being adjusted to reflect that they were no longer coming back in big numbers.

NOBLES: OK.

So, Paul, it's interesting. The police say that the suspect was wearing a fake explosive device. What's the reason behind a terrorist wearing a fake explosive device? Is it to just scare people even more than they would, given the way the situation played out?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, we saw that in attack two years previously on London Bridge in June 2017, when the three attackers in that attack were actually wearing fake suicide vests.

And the reason was perhaps because they wanted to guarantee martyrdom, that they wanted to go to paradise. That's how the jihadis see it. So, we don't know whether this was a jihadi attack or there was some other kind of motivation.

But we have seen a number of attacks in Europe in recent years where the perpetrators have been wearing fake suicide vests. We saw that in Paris in January 2016, an attack on a police center there. We saw that in Catalonia in August 2017, with those attacks in Barcelona, and also a town nearby.

This is an M.O., I have to say, of ISIS-inspired terror attacks in Europe. Now, whether it is an ISIS-inspired terror attack, we don't know whether that's the case at this point. There's been no claim of responsibility so far by ISIS.

And the context here, as Nic has been talking about, is one where there's been a reduction in the threat level in Europe, really across the board of European countries, because ISIS has lost this territory in Syria and Iraq. A lot of its operational planners have been killed or are on the run.

They're not able to plan and instigate and inspire these attacks in the way that they have in previous years.

And then so, several weeks ago, the Brits reduced that threat level to substantial, but, still, that threat level at substantial meaning that an attack seen as likely. So, it's still an elevated threat level.

NOBLES: And I wonder, though, Paul, obviously, we have just seen al- Baghdadi killed. You have heard the Trump administration kind of crow about the fact that ISIS has been defeated.

This situation aside, because we don't know definitively if it is related to ISIS, has there been a concern within the international security community that there would be an attempt by ISIS to kind of reassert its presence on the world stage?

CRUICKSHANK: I think that there has been concern in the weeks since Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was killed that there would be followers in the West that would try to carry out revenge attacks.

But there's been a lot of efforts from the security agencies to go after ISIS to make arrests. Just in the last week or so, we saw a major, major operation online coordinated by Europol to take terrorist content off messaging sites, off places like Google and Twitter, and Telegram, a messaging site where ISIS was using a lot for its propaganda.

And that effort was very, very successful in the last week of taking down a lot of this ISIS propaganda. Has that caused ISIS sympathizers who can't get ahold of this propaganda anymore so easily to become angry, to want to kind of launch some kind of revenge operation? Who knows.

We do not yet know what the motivation was behind this attack.

NOBLES: And, Nic, you mentioned to me before about the way the police force in London responded to this. They seem prepared for it. They were almost on their heels, ready to swoop in as soon as this took place.

[15:05:00]

And, also, we saw an incredible response from the average everyday people that were also around this incident when it took place.

ROBERTSON: It is striking. It's really striking to me as, a Londoner, who is somebody who lives there, that people will step up and do that.

And I think it's really a reflection of the fact that people have seen these number of attacks before in the past, that they don't want to be intimidated by it.

Necessarily -- many people will be scared and will run away. And that's absolutely understandable. But some members of the public know that if they can take on this individual, then they can save lives.

And I think this shows you the mood and the attitude. The fact that the police were on the scene so quickly, I think, speaks to the fact that there was an attack there before, and the police have to know and be prepared.

We don't think about it often. They think about it every day. Where is the attack going to come? And one of the higher probabilities has to be somebody trying a similar copycat attack, which appears to be the case today. We don't know all the details.

So the city of London, which is right across -- which is right at one end of the bridge there on the north side of the river, the police there are on an even more heightened alert, if you will, because the city of London, the financial district has been a location for terror attacks in the past.

So I think you have a lot of things coming into play. And I'm just reading here. We're getting word now from the London

Ambulance Service, giving us some details on the number of casualties. They -- the London Ambulance Service says that they took three casualties to two different London hospitals.

NOBLES: OK.

ROBERTSON: So, now we get an idea that three people required hospitalization.

Their conditions, the last we understood from the mayor, some of them in serious condition.

NOBLES: I also wanted to make a point about the way the London police responded to this. The fact that they chose to shoot and kill this assailant is unique to London, right?

I mean, in the United States, that is a little bit more common. Does that indicate to us how serious they took this threat?

ROBERTSON: So, armed police are available. They're available very quickly because of the terror threat in London. And that's -- that will be stepped up around the Christmastime, because that's a known period where there's a heightened potential for attack, just because the threats have been laid on around the festive season in the past.

So what we saw -- and this is how one military expert described it to me, as a slow double-tap. We see the video, and we hear the shots from somebody recording the incident from a bus. And it's bang, bang.

We haven't aired the video of those moments. But I think it's -- this is -- this would be standard operating procedure for the military and the police. It's two shots to make sure that the subject is neutralized. And they will have taken no chances -- if they believe that this person had a bomb on them and that they didn't control the person and didn't control the trigger mechanism.

They just have to do that because members of the public are close by.

NOBLES: All right, gentlemen, stand by, because we do have some other breaking news that we need to report now, this coming out of The Hague.

We are hearing reports of a stabbing in a shopping area.

CNN's Bianca Nobilo is a following this story.

Bianca, what can you tell us about what's happening in the Netherlands?

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're getting reports in the last half-an-hour or so that there have been several people stabbed in The Hague in the Netherlands.

Now, that is the seat of the Dutch Parliament. It's a very important area of the country. This, of course, is resonating with everybody in the newsroom and I'm sure everybody hearing this information and following those stabbings that we had in the city of London today.

We're trying to gather information as soon as we can. But as of yet, all that we understand is that this stabbing incident happened on a big market street in The Hague. It's obviously near Christmastime. There are lots of people shopping later in the day at the moment, and that several people were wounded.

At the moment, we don't know more about the condition of those people who were stabbed. We don't have any more details either as to who perpetrated the attack.

(CROSSTALK)

NOBLES: All right, Bianca, thank you so much for that update.

Obviously, this is a new development now. We're learning of a stabbing in the Netherlands.

I want to go back now to Paul and Nic.

And I want to add to this reporting that we're just learning that two people are dead in the attack in London. And, Nic, that follows up with the reporting that you had learned about the number of people that had been taken to hospitals. We will talk about that in a second.

But, Paul, obviously, we don't know enough about the situation in the Netherlands to draw any kind of a conclusion. But there is a coincidence here that we had a stabbing in a prominent location in London, and now a stabbing in a prominent location in another part of Europe.

CRUICKSHANK: And Dutch authorities have not said there's any link to terrorism yet in the stabbing in The Hague.

But, obviously, one followed the other by a period of several hours. Any time you get a significant attack like you had in London earlier today, there's always concern about copycat attacks, that people will be inspired by what they saw to carry out their own attacks.

And so security agencies are always on the watch-out in the hours after an attack.

NOBLES: OK.

[15:10:00]

So, again, we don't know definitively what the root cause of this situation was in the Netherlands. But we did want to make that point.

Nic, back to you now.

Learning of two dead in the situation in London, this was always a possibility when this story first broke, but now we're learning that definitively.

ROBERTSON: And I think the prime minister hinted at that, that short interview that he did.

He spoke at the end. He said -- going back to thinking about the victims and their families. And I think we got a hint from him there that it was more serious than he could say. He was asked that question.

So I think this will certainly bring an added sense of solemnity. It will certainly take the fun of anyone's night in London tonight. And I think that we can see -- we can expect to see perhaps a period, because we're in this run-up to the general election, as we saw when the attacks happened in 2017, just before the election, that there will be a bit of a pause on the election campaigning.

The parties -- the principal parties have said they won't campaign in London tonight. But I think we may be able to see that stretch over the weekend.

NOBLES: All right, Nic Robertson, Paul Cruickshank, thank you for being here, reacting to the news as it was coming in. We do appreciate it.

We will have much more on these two breaking stories.

Plus, just in, breaking news from here in the United States, Democrats writing a letter to the White House involving a new deadline in the impeachment inquiry.

Stand by for that news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:27]

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

CRESSIDA DICK, COMMISSIONER, LONDON METROPOLITAN POLICE: ... terrible and mindless events.

The attack started at Fishmongers' Hall in the city of London. My understanding is that police were called at 13:58, two minutes to 2:00. And City of London police officers had bravely and professionally confronted the suspect by 14:03, just five minutes later.

If you are concerned about anyone who was there today, please try to contact them. And if you cannot, then get in touch with us.

I want to thank all the emergency service personnel who are currently working tirelessly to deal with this incident, particularly the police officers from the Met and the city who have worked so closely together to protect the public.

I also want to thank the members of the public who have helped, either by showing extraordinary courage and stepping in to tackle this attacker, or, indeed, by following the instructions they have subsequently been given by officers at the scene and in the area. This support from our public assists us much more than you could know.

In the coming days, you will see more police, both armed and unarmed, patrolling our streets to help reassure those who are understandably concerned.

Similarly, our counterterrorism detectives will be working around the clock to identify those who have lost their lives, to support all the victims and their families.

We are also working at full tilt to understand exactly what has happened and whether anyone else was involved. For this reason, we expect cordons to remain in place around the London Bridge area for sometime.

This afternoon, I met with the prime minister and the home secretary and also had a meeting with the mayor. I'm very grateful for all their support.

Indeed, we have been working closely with the government at every level and just as closely with our partners across London. This will obviously continue in the coming days.

This joint effort mustn't stop with the authorities. As you know, we are treating this as a terrorist incident. Fighting terrorism takes effort and determination from all of us.

If you have any information or, indeed, any concerns, please do contact us.

The empty ideology of terror offers nothing but hatred. And, today, I urge everyone to reject that. Ours is a great city because we embrace each other's differences.

[15:20:14]

We must emerge stronger still from this tragedy. In doing that, we will ensure that the very few who seek to divide us will never, ever succeed.

Thank you very much. I'm happy to take a couple of questions.

QUESTION: Commissioner, do you think, at this very early stage, that the assailant was in any way known to the police?

DICK: This is a very fast-moving, dynamic investigation. We will keep you updated as we learn things. I can't comment on that at the moment.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

DICK: Again, a very fast-moving inquiry. That's obviously a very important line of investigation for us. Was this person involved with anybody else? If so, who?

And, of course, we will be working to minimize any threat there may be out there.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

DICK: I'm afraid I can't. That would be a lead for the hospitals and indeed the LAS.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) gender of the two (OFF-MIKE)

DICK: I can't at the moment. I'm not prepared to do that.

Of course, it's an absolute priority for us to identify who they are and make sure that their families are informed. So I'm not going to say anything more, I'm afraid, about the two people who have sadly died.

QUESTION: So, you can't confirm that they were students? (OFF-MIKE) students?

DICK: I absolutely cannot confirm anything at all further at this stage.

But, rest assured, we will tell you as soon as we reasonably can what we know about these people. But, of course, you would understand our priority is, first of all, to make a categorical identification, and, secondly, to ensure that their families are informed as swiftly and as properly as we can.

Well, last one.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

DICK: I'm so sorry. I couldn't actually hear the question.

QUESTION: Are you looking to talk to any particular individuals outside the (OFF-MIKE) about the incident?

DICK: So, I think we have -- I have -- we have already put out an appeal.

I would repeat that appeal, that anybody who is in the area, anybody who has, for example, any video footage they think may be relevant, anybody who saw anything at that time, we would want to hear from them.

We will be working as fast as we can to understand who this man is, where he comes from, and whether there is anybody else that we need to find quickly who might be in touch with him.

Thank you very much indeed. Thank you.

NOBLES: All right, that is London's Metropolitan Police commissioner, Cressida Dick, giving an update on the terror situation there in London.

She did confirm that two are dead, in addition to the suspect, who was shot and killed by police there. Three others are injured, as London continues to investigate this incident that took place on the London Bridge.

We will continue to keep an eye on that situation as well and update you with any new information as it becomes available.

Meanwhile, there is also a separate stabbing incident being reported in The Hague.

Stay with us. This is CNN's special coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:20]

NOBLES: President Trump has been briefed on the attack in London, but he's now back at his Florida resort after spending Thanksgiving with troops in Afghanistan.

He certainly has a very consequential week ahead. Early next week, the House Intelligence Committee is expected to release its report on what we have learned so far in the impeachment inquiry.

And just in to CNN, we have learned that Democrats have extended a deadline for the White House to decide if it will take part in the next phase of the impeachment.

The Judiciary Committee holds its first hearing on Wednesday.

CNN congressional correspondent Phil Mattingly joining me now with that part of the story.

Now, Phil, the original deadline was this Sunday. So what has changed?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, believe it or, Ryan, I think the original deadline holds.

But the original deadline was specifically tied to that Wednesday hearing, the first hearing. And I think when you look at kind of this next phase, it's important to note this first hearing that comes on Wednesday is largely kind of a technical nuts-and-bolts hearing.

They're going to have constitutional experts coming in to testify on the panels, talking about the history and precedent behind impeachment, why impeachment has been utilized in the past, and kind of the shape of impeachment as they continue to move forward in this inquiry.

What this new letter is about is less about that first hearing and more about the impeachment inquiry on the whole, the impeachment proceedings as they are going forward.

They are specifically asking the White House not about just the Wednesday hearing, but all around. Do you want to participate? And if you participate, there are actual privileges that the House rules, laid out in late October, would give the White House or the White House counsel or whoever the lawyer is for the president, who they haven't named yet, to actually participate.

They can perhaps give a concluding presentation. They can question witnesses. They can even submit requests for specific witnesses. However, there's a rub to that. One, they have to participate. And, at this point time, as you know well, they haven't said whether or not they will.

And, two, they need to agree to whatever requests the committee brings their way. So, if the committee says, we want