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White House To Respond To Whether Or Not The President Intends To Call Witnesses Or Present Evidence In The Broader House Hearings; Tom Steyer (D), Presidential Candidate, Spent More Than $63 Million And Counting; Millions Of Thanksgiving Holiday Travelers Are Getting Hit With Rain, Snow, Or A Mix Of Both This Weekend From California To Maine; Iraq's Prime Minister Announced That He Will Be Submitting His Resignation To Parliament; Comedian Gary Gulman Makes Jokes About Depression. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired November 30, 2019 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:33]

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Alex Marquardt in for Ana Cabrera here in New York.

After his surprise trip to Afghanistan to spend thanksgiving with U.S. troops, President Trump is back on U.S. soil finishing out the thanksgiving holiday weekend at his Mar-a-Lago resort.

But there are very consequential hours looming ahead including a 6:00 p.m. deadline tomorrow night to determine whether or not Mr. Trump will send White House lawyers to participate in Wednesday's first impeachment hearing in the House Judiciary Committee. That is the committee which will determine whether to bring actual articles of impeachment.

The Judiciary Committee chairman Jerry Nadler has also imposed a second deadline, 5:00 p.m. next Friday, for the White House to respond to whether or not the President intends to call witnesses or present evidence in the broader house hearings.

And there are also two other major events coming up in week. We are expecting a report from the House intelligence committee with findings from the historic private and public impeachment hearings.

Plus, the President is on his way to London, a long-planned trip, to meet with leaders at the 70th anniversary of the NATO alliance. That summit is likely to be strained by the White House's decision to substantially cut U.S. contributions to the central NATO budget.

CNN White House correspondent Jeremy Diamond is with the President in Florida this holiday weekend.

Jeremy, I just listed everything that's going on. There's lots that the White House is watching and focusing on. In terms of their priorities, how much of a focus are those impeachment proceedings?

JEREMEY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Alex, the White House has very little choice but to focus on these impeachment proceedings. And for that to be kind of the top priority at the White House.

As you mentioned, there are two key deadlines coming up. One tomorrow as it relates to deciding whether to send White House attorneys to that first punishment hearing scheduled for Wednesday. And then the other deadline at the end of the week on Friday to decide whether they will participate at all in these impeachment hearings. And certainly this is a top concern for the White House, and they are currently debating and discussing whether or not the President or his attorneys will participate in these impeachment proceedings.

Again, Alex, the President has been so critical of these impeachment proceedings calling them a hoax and a scam, and so certainly he doesn't want to legitimize these proceedings. But at the same time, his top criticism of the impeachment proceedings thus far has been the White House's inability to actually participate. So now that they are being offered the opportunity, that is certainly something that the White House is looking at.

But as you mentioned, Alex, the President, he will not be here for part of this coming week. He is traveling to London, attending a NATO summit. And had is part of the White House's strategy also is to show the President busy doing other things right now that are not impeachment related.

The President himself recently met with Mark Penn, a pollster and strategist for former President Bill Clinton who advised Clinton during his impeachment proceedings. And Penn shared advice with the President that was focused on governing and travel. And that is what sources have told me Penn shared. And it seems the President at least to a certain degree is starting to follow that advice.

MARQUARDT: Yes. Heeding that. That trip to London will be the second international trip in less than a week. Of course, Jeremy, when the President went to Afghanistan, he made a little bit of news, quite a bit of news, in fact. He said this about the Taliban.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Taliban wants to make a deal. We will see if they want to make a deal. It's got to be a real deal, but we will see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: So Jeremy, he was saying that the peace talks had been restarted with the Taliban. Is that actually the case?

DIAMOND: It appears, Alex, that the President got a little bit ahead of where things actually stand. The President made very clear while he was in Afghanistan at several points that the U.S. was talking to the Taliban, that this was actually happening.

Now I spoke with a senior administration official who told me that while there have been sporadic contact between the U.S. and the Taliban, those peace talks have not yet formally restarted. And then when I reached out for comment on the story, another senior administration official reframed the President's comments saying that the President had said that they are -- they are in the process essentially of restarting those talks with the Taliban. So that is something the U.S. is moving toward. But again, hasn't quite yet happened, Alex.

MARQUARDT: All right. The White House reframing his comments.

Jeremy Diamond in a noisy West Palm Beach, thank you so much.

Now joining me to discuss all this are CNN political commentator Mark McKinnon who has served as an adviser for everyone from President George W. Bush to Senator John McCain, even Bono. He is also the co- host and executive producer of "Showtime: The Circus." And we will politics editor for "The New York Times" Patrick Healy.

Gentlemen, thank you both for joining me.

Mark, I want to start with you and this notion, this decision that the President has to make. If he opted -- ultimately opts out of participating in these House judiciary hearings, can he still credibly complain that he is not getting a fair shot in the impeachment proceedings?

[16:05:35]

MARK MCKINNON, CO-HOST, SHOWTIME'S "THE CIRCUS": Well, probably can't make that credible claim. But in the larger strategic picture it really -- it connects with the overall big picture strategy which is to make -- to send the message that these hearings are -- are not really practical for the purposes of the trial. That they are a sham. That it's -- there's an ongoing coup.

So if the President sends his lawyers, he's legitimizing the process. The overall strategy is to delegitimize the process. So don't send the lawyers because if you do, it legitimizes the process. That's the -- that's the bigger strategic point.

MARQUARDT: Right. And many in the Senate are looking ahead to the impeachment trial, thinking that the impeachment in the house is a foregone conclusion, the trial, then, moves to the Senate. And so, as the House moves closer to that impeachment vote, this is what senator Lindsey graham from South Carolina had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Well, if you have a trial, what are the rules of the trial? Here's a good rule to start with. The trial in the Senate should mirror trials all over America. Hearsay is not admitted unless there's a valid exception in any trial in America. So let's apply the federal rules of evidence to the trial of the Senate. And let the chief justice of the United States rule on whether or not evidence is admissible. My believe is that 90 percent of the testimony being used by the House violates the hearsay rule.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MARQUARDT: Patrick Healy, there's been a lot of discussion over this, whether it's hearsay or it is something that people heard. What will actually be allowed in the Senate trial?

PATRICK HEALY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. We don't have the equivalent of, say, the Nixon tapes here where you have President Nixon's voice on recordings essentially implicating himself in the cover-up of the Watergate break-in. What you -- what you do have is a number of people who are in the federal government with security clearances, with high ranks, who are in the White House, who are on telephone calls that President Trump was on.

And we have a version of that transcript with the call, who are saying to varying degrees this was a quid pro quo. This was an effort guided by Rudy Giuliani at the President's request. And that whether these people are being told directly by Giuliani, by others, to essentially carry out the President's orders, there's quite a bit of evidence there.

Now the reality is as senator Graham is indicating, the Senate is run by Republicans. Just like Adam Schiff and Jerry Nadler and some extent Nancy Pelosi have been able to create the rules for the impeachment hearings in the House, the Republicans will be able to do so in the Senate. Nd they will be judged in the cower of public opinion about whether they are doing that fairly or not. I think senator Graham is putting down kind of a far marker on that, the sort of notion that nothing will be admissible unless it's the President's voice on a tape.

MARQUARDT: Right. A lot of dramatic moments, more than a dozen witnesses in those historic hearings. And over the course of two weeks, there were some very intense moments back and forth between the witnesses and the House members up there. Let's take listen to one of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Now the President real-time is attacking you. What effect do you think that has on other witnesses' willingness to come forward and expose wrongdoing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it's very intimidating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Mark McKinnon, Marie Yovanovitch there saying that the President's words were very intimidating. And yet when we look at the polling that CNN has carried out, about these hearings, they haven't -- those moments haven't really swayed public opinion. So as we move into this next phase with the Judiciary Committee, does it put more pressure on Democrats, on Jerry Nadler in that committee?

MCKINNON: Sure it does. But on the other hand, the Republicans may be wary of what they ask for in getting the citizens. You know, they said that they didn't want the closed door hearings and asked for the witnesses to come forward.

Those witnesses when they came forward were credible witnesses. You know, they showed up in uniform. They showed up as not being partisan hacks as they had been described by members of the Trump administration and supporters. So we will see more of that in the Senate depending on the rules that they set up.

But the long run, is it probably won't change the equation much. We are not likely to learn a whole lot new unless maybe John Bolton comes forward. He could change the equation. But barring that, it's unlikely -- it really doesn't matter. At the end of the day the house is going to convict, the Senate -- the House will impeach, the Senate will not vote to convict, and we'll press forward. And I think for everybody's sake, it's better to get this done as quickly as possible.

[16:10:23]

MARQUARDT: Patrick, pick up on that. I mean, Jerry Nadler doesn't seem keen to make this very dramatic. And yet there is a case that must be made to the American people. So how do you think Democrats are going to fact these hearings?

HEALY: Yes, I think that's really important. What the Democrats want to do right now I think is stick very much to what they know to the evidence. They don't want to go overboard. I think going back into the Mueller report and sort of suppositions and sort of thirdhand information, I think they're very reluctant to do that. I think they know the outcome is probably along the lines of what Mark is saying, and that then they go back on the campaign trail.

You know, CNN polling, other polling has found that while there hasn't been a strong movement in -- in public opinion on this, you still have about two-thirds of women who are basically saying that Trump should be impeached and removed from office. There are basically strong demographic interests that Democrats have in -- in battleground states.

Voters that they can play to -- to say you know what, four years of Trump is enough. We're just going to have more of this abuse of power, you know, more of this kind of behavior that is extraordinary for a President. You know, we need to vote him out.

So I think what we are going to have is the Democrats that aren't going to want this to turn, you know, into its own kind of circus. They want to be able to take what happens in Washington and use it on the campaign trail to run against Trump.

MARQUARDT: Right. Some of the most frustrated people are those on the campaign trail who are having to run against the backdrop of these impeachment proceedings.

There was a funny and yet clever and smart analysis from "Axios." Take a look at this. They were highlighting how baby Yoda who, as you both know I'm sure, is the breakout character from Disney's "the Mandalorian." That's spinoff of "Star Wars." And baby Yoda is driving twice as many average social interactions as any of the 2002 candidates on the Democratic side.

Mark, when we have got these impeachment proceedings and the last debate overshadowed quite a bit by the hearings in the House, do you think that Democrats are feeling frustrated? They haven't been getting the attention that they would normally? Here we are just a few months out from the Iowa and New Hampshire caucus and primary.

MCKINNON: Sure. I think that particularly among the second-tier candidates, they are frustrated that so much of the attention has focused on Washington. On the other hand, we are seeing the equation as not set in concrete, things are changing. They are malleable. You know, it's not very often that the frontrunner in Iowa in September wins in January or February. We're seeing that right now. The Elizabeth Warren is, that's who place dropping. Buttigieg, rocket's got a little fuel. And things are malleable.

So we also know that in Iowa, people pay attention on the ground. They are kind of tuning out all the national noise. And we always intend to -- the media makes the mistakes as all of us do to sort of look at the national numbers, the national echo chamber, you know, the national notion that they are all talking about baby Yoda.

They are not talking about baby Yoda in Des Moines, I guarantee you. They are looking at candidates, looking at them carefully. And as it always does, Iowa's going to sets the bar for where this election goes.

MARQUARDT: And that's why we are seeing former vice President Joe Biden embarking on an 18-county no malarkey bus tour.

Mark McKinnon and Patrick Healy, thanks so much for breaking it down.

HEALY: Thanks, Alex.

MCKINNON: Kick it, Alex. Thanks.

MARQUARDT: All right.. Well, still to come, 2020 Democrats are on a blitz, spending millions on TV ads. But has it gone overboard? Our next guest is Tom Steyer. He has spent the most of anyone, topping $60 million. We will be asking him that question next.

You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:17:47]

MARQUARDT: We are 65 days out from the first in the nation Iowa caucuses. And there are some eye-popping numbers to report when it comes to political TV ads. Leading the pack is billionaire Tom Steyer who has spent more than $63 million and counting. Michael Bloomberg is at around $ 37 million so far. And the third billionaire out there, Donald Trump, his re-election campaign has spent around $7 million.

Tom Steyer joins me from Las Vegas. Welcome, Mr. Steyer. Thanks so much for joining me.

TOM STEYER (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Alex, please call me Tom.

MARQUARDT: Tom, I have seen a lot of these ads, as have many people all across the country. I want to ask you about some of the criticism that was highlighted in a recent report in "Politico." It says that members of your own staff in New Hampshire have actually privately acknowledged that the volume of ads across the state on TV has gone overboard.

And they quote a New Hampshire media analysts saying there is a point of no return in terms of visibility, at some point you become the uninvited guest. He uniquely is becoming dangerously close.

So Tom, how worried are you about burning people out?

STEYER: Well, Alex, my whole goal in this is simply to get across the message that corporations have bought our democracy, that it isn't working for the people of the United States, and that if we are going to get any of the progressive policies we want, we are going to have to take back the government.

And so I believe that that message will stand or fall, and I will stand or fall as the person bringing that message, as an outsider in politics, on its own merits. So to me, the question here is am I saying something differential and important, and am I trusted to actually be the person to solve that problem?

And that is the question that I ask all the time. And I think that's the same question every single person running for President should be asking themselves is what is the message I have that's different, how do I get across to people my history, I'm an outsider in politics. And for ten years, have been taking on corporations. And that's the question that I really ask myself.

MARQUARDT: But Tom, if you are looking at the polling and this is CNN polling, you are at three percent tied with Kamala Harris, Michael Bloomberg, and Andrew Yang. All of your ads that we were talking about really do focus on the President, on Donald Trump.

If you are trying to climb up the rankings and claw votes away, those percentage points away from fellow Democrats, are you going to be training your sights a bit more on them going forward?

[16:20:21]

STEYER: Well, I do think that it's important to have -- to be differential, if that's your question, Alex. But I think that what's really important is to be trying to tell the American people and specifically Democratic primary voters what I'm going to be doing differently from other people, how I'm different from other people.

So when I say that we are going to have to take back the government, I'm talking about structural change, about term limits for Congress people and senators of 12 years, about the idea of direct democracy, pushing power to the people, allowing the people, ourselves to pass laws.

And so I agree with you. This is not about why Donald Trump is flow good. This is a question about is what are you, what am I going to do differently and that's going to change American lives for the better.

MARQUARDT: You did talk about term limits quite a bit the last debate. Why do you think term limits in Congress would be a positive change for our democracy?

STEYER: Well, simply put, Alex, I think that if you want bold change, we are going to need new and different people in charge. And that's really what term limits is about. But all of the things I'm talking about structurally have to do with the idea of taking the power and pushing it to the American people as I have tried to do for the last decade.

And the question that people should be asking themselves, who can I trust to make that change? And do I really want the power to reside with the people or the politicians because I'm one of the people who absolutely wants to push power down, back to the people so we can take back our government.

MARQUARDT: I want to talk to you about another one of your core positions. That's putting yourself really -- positioning yourself at the fronts of the pack when it comes to the climate crisis. There was another report in the past week, the latest in a string of dire reports.

But what was different about this one is that it said that the earth is heading toward what they called a global tipping point if we continue on this current path. A tipping point that, of course, implies that it's irreversible. And the report said that those changes are already happening in nine locations around the world. So when you look at the plan that you have put forward and compare it with a report that's just come out, do you think that your stance is aggressive enough?

STEYER: Well, Alex, let me say this. I declare a state of emergency on day one of my presidency. That's where I think we are. That's amount of urgency that I bring to this problem, that I would use the emergency powers of the presidency starting on day one. I would make it the number-one domestic priority. And I would make it the number- one foreign policy priority of my administration.

So if you ask me do I think that I'm taking with the correct amount of seriousness, you can't be more serious than that. But beyond that, let me say this. I have worked on this problem for more than a decade. I have taken on the oil companies and beaten them. I have taken on the utilities and beaten them. I have stopped power plants, I've blocked pipelines, I have worked on this successfully for more than a decade. And I have a record that says I know what it will take.

And let me say this, too, we can do this. There is no doubt in my mind that the American people, if we choose to do this, that we can do this and we can do it while creating millions of good-paying union jobs and cleaning up our air and water, particularly in the black and brown communities where bad air and dangerous water is focused.

So can we -- am I taking it with the correct amount of seriousness? You can't take it with more seriousness than I'm talking about. And I'll say this, too. If f we want to pull this country together, everyone asks me, how are you going to pull the country together?

How about this. Take on the biggest challenge in history, and together, solve it, succeed, turn the biggest challenge into the biggest opportunity, that's what America's about. And that's what I'm talking about doing in climate.

MARQUARDT: All right. Tom Steyer, we have to leave it there. Thanks you so much for your time. Good luck on the campaign trail.

STEYER: Alex, thank you so much for having me.

MARQUARDT: All right.

Well, as millions make the often long track home from a joyous thanksgiving holiday, a very powerful storm is bringing heavy rain and snow and threatening travel from coast to coast. We will have a closer look at the danger that's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:28:46] MARQUARDT: Millions of thanksgiving holiday travelers are getting hit with rain, snow, or a mix of both this weekend from California to Maine. More than 40 million people are under winter weather alerts. And from New Mexico to Nebraska, more than 20 million people are under high wind warnings or advisories.

CNN's Natasha Chen has more on the dangerous weather that's proving deadly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NATASHA CHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's been a dangerous weekend for holiday travelers. In Arizona, rescue teams have now found the bodies of two children who disappeared after their vehicle was swept away in a flooded creek. A third child remains missing.

The (INAUDIBLE) county sheriff's office says they were part of a group of nine people, two adults and four children were rescued earlier. Deputies say they were in a military-style vehicle Friday afternoon that submerged in the town of basin area.

Another rescue team saved six people in San Diego, California. They were in a van driving down a flooded road near fashion valley mall on Friday. The swift water rescue team as seen in this video using a raft to get everyone out of the van.

Take a look at this semi-truck in Colorado springs. This is the moment high winds knocked it over as the truck sat on the side of a highway Friday night. A high-wind warning in the Colorado springs area lasts through Saturday afternoon local time. Heavy snow in parts of southern California closed six flags magic mountain on thanksgiving.

It wasn't all bad, though. Los Angeles county deputies responded to a few back up requests for snowball fights on Friday. And up in the San Francisco area, a huge rainbow appeared over the bay bridge after much-needed rain.

So this west coast system is now moving eastward. People in the northeast are going to get hit with a snowstorm starting tomorrow with places in Massachusetts getting up to a foot, places in New York state like the Catskills getting up to two feet of snow. Of course tomorrow is one of the busiest travel days of the year as people return home from thanksgiving. So some airlines are starting to offer travel waivers.

Natasha Chen, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[15:30:38] MARQUARDT: All right, Our thanks to Natasha Chen for that report.

Joining us now to discuss this is Patrick Burke. He is a meteorologist for the NOAA prediction weather center.

Patrick, what are you watching most closely right now?

PATRICK BURKE, METEOROLOGIST, NOAA PREDICTION WEATHER CENTER: Hi there, thanks for having me on. You know, we are looking at this very large storm, the one you that talked about affecting California a few days ago. It's now in the upper Midwest and the northern plains, producing blizzard conditions across the Dakotas and northern Minnesota. And that's the same one that will move into the northeast later tonight, into Sunday, producing both ice and snow, heavy snow like you mentioned over New York and parts of Massachusetts and adjacent areas.

We don't think this is going to be too, too bad for the big cities along i-95. But there will be some snow accumulation looking at generally about two to four inches in New York and Boston. With a changeover then to kind of a wintry mix and some rainfall later in Sunday and Monday. So it's going to be a prolonged event as it moves across the country.

MARQUARDT: So what advice do you have for people traveling and heading home this weekend?

BURKE: Right, of course, it's been a big travel week, right. And so if you are heading out on Sunday, you just want to check in with your local national weather service office, local meteorologists to see what the latest conditions are out there. The heavy winds and snow that are going on right now in the plains will be letting down as we get into Sunday. So it may be OK to travel, but you want to check the road conditions.

And then if you are in the northeast and you have flights, we don't think this is the kind of storm that would necessarily close the major airports. But there could be delays caused by the light snowfall accumulation and the change over to rain and wind. You want to be sure you give yourselves extra time to prepare and make it to your destination safely.

MARQUARDT: All right. Patrick Burke with NOAA, we know that you will be watching all of that. Thank you so much for joining us.

BURKE: Thank you.

MARQUARDT: And CNN is on the ground in Baghdad where after days of protests that left hundreds dead, Iraq's prime minister says he is ready to step down. So what will that mean for the unrest?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:36:47]

MARQUARDT: After almost two months of violent unrest and protests in Iraq, today Iraq's prime minister announced that he will be submitting his resignation to parliament. Now this comes after a top Shiite cleric criticized the government's response to the deadly protest.

CNN's Arwa Damon an has been on the ground in Baghdad where protesters have reacted to the news with celebration.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Demonstrators dance, shot off tiny fireworks in Baghdad's tahrir square as the news spread. Iraq's prime minister (INAUDIBLE) would resign. A celebration that came at an Unbearable, unnecessary price.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

DAMON: Wake up, wake up, a mother shrieks over her son's body. He one of more than 40 gunned down in 48 hours in the southern Shia city where eyewitnesses describe streets being turned into rivers of blood.

This young man also killed wears a t-shirt that says, we want a nation.

This is the scene at the morgue (INAUDIBLE), home to some of Shia Islam's holiest sites. Heavily influenced by Iraq.

And a heartbreaking post asks, does anyone know this young man? He's my son, (INAUDIBLE), is the first comment.

The square at the epicenter of demonstrations in Baghdad is lined with shrines for those who died. Nearly 400 countrywide. Deserters pray for the souls of people they never met.

For Sadib, it's her way of thanking them for the future she can now dream of for her two children who she brought here for the first time.

Yes, they are too young to really understand, she says, but I want them to come and experience this. There is a sense and a determination that this will be the chapter in

Iraq's bloody history that finally alters the status quo that has governed the population's lives since the U.S.-led invasion. percent-dictatorship for another form of percent- dictatorship for another form of captivity defined by chaos and violence, rampant corruption, rising unemployment, divisive sectarian politics, and Iran's looming shadow.

Iran wants to make us a part of Khomeini's Islamic republic, this man says, just like ISIS wanted to make us a part of their state.

Rare to hear such harsh words ex-pressed publicly Iraq's neighbor whose militias and political influence wield ultimate power here. But the barrier of fear is breaking. Iraqis want to control their own destiny and are willing to risk it all.

The prime minister's anticipated resignation is just a first step. For those who have taken to the streets, it's about reclaiming their country and up-ending the political system that has brought more destruction than democratic rights.

Arwa Damon, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUARDT: And our thanks to Arwa Damon in Baghdad.

Coming up, the comic who turned his struggle with depression into a standup special.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[15:40:08] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only anti-depressants we had access to in the 1970s and 1980s pretty much was snap out of it and what have you got to be depressed about?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:44:18]

MARQUARDT: Normally there's nothing funny about mental illness, unless you are Gary Gulman. CNN's John Berman met up with the comedian who turned his struggle with depression into a new standup special making people laugh and think.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY GULMAN, COMEDIAN: Over the years, I have tried Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Paxil, Abilify, Adderall, Zyprexa/ At one point my doctor said, let's just try drugs that rhyme. thank you, Dr. Seuss.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Comedian Gary Gulman makes jokes about depression because he has to.

[15:45:02] GULMAN: I was so clearly in discuss like my hands were shaking. I

acknowledged that I was sick, and I started to write jokes about it because that -- that's the most comfortable I am is when I'm being funny. So I started saying things like, have you ever gotten recognized in the psych ward?

BERMAN: So it is a true story, you were recognized in a psych ward?

GULMAN: Yes, yes, yes. The day I got there, a man came up to me, he said, I won't tell anybody, but you are Gary Gulman, right? Am I crazy or are you Gary Gulman?

GULMAN: I grew up at a time the definition of manhood was so narrow. You were either Clint Eastwood or you were Richard Simmons. There was nothing in between. There were no Paul Rudd's. No kind eyed Mark Ruffalo's. You have to be so hard.

BERMAN: His new film is a chronicle of his journey back two years ago from a near-fatal battle with treatment resistant depression.

You said you were afraid you would never get better.

GULMAN: Yes. I wasn't communicating. I didn't feel good about anything. There was nothing I looked forward to. And I spent a lot of time trying to think of painless suicides. Yes.

BERMAN: He was forced to step back from comedy, admitted himself to the hospital twice and more.

GULMAN: My psychiatrist is an advocate for and an expert in something called electroconvulsive therapy which used to be called electroshock therapy, but they felt electroshock was not quite horrifying enough. They said, yes, electroshock is disturbing, but I feel like we're soft-selling the convulsions.

BERMAN: How important is it to you to destigmatize these things? Like the hospital? Like electron convulsive therapy?

GULMAN: I think I have a responsibility and an obligation, but also I'm so grateful for feeling good that I want to share this. That if people feel the way I felt, can feel better, I would do everything in my power to get that information to them so they'll try it and so that they won't be afraid.

BERMAN: You actually joke about suicide notes.

GULMAN: Yes. Yes. And I was concerned about that.

I really feel in some way that my aversion to essays has saved my life again and again because any time I have contemplated suicide, I have thought, you got to leave a note.

I'm not spending the last hour of my life doing something I have dreaded throughout it.

I didn't want to trivialize people who leave suicide notes or are suicidal. So we actually checked that with the national foundation for suicide prevention --

BERMAN: Really?

GULMAN: To make sure it wasn't insensitive.

BERMAN: Was that the closest to the edge?

GULMAN: Yes, I think so. I think that was the closest to the edge. And also, there was one joke where I said that I would compare my childhood to Charlie Brown's if snoopy had died and I said, that's too dark and really sad. So I laughed at that joke. My wife went, aww, so sad.

The only anti-depressants we had access to in the 1970s and 1980s pretty much was snap out of it and what have you got to be depressed about? That was the second leading brand of anti-depressant.

BERMAN: Were you convinced that you could make mental illness funny?

GULMAN: I was convinced at that point that even if I didn't make a mental illness funny, it would be a valiant effort. Sort of a quick- sodic effort that even if I failed miserably, this was something that took some courage, and quickly it became not even an act of courage because it worked so well.

BERMAN: So well that he landed the HBO special so well that people aren't laughing a lot. And so well that he's having an impact on people's lives right before our eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My sister and brother both have severe depression, so I talk about you.

GULMAN: I'm sorry -- All right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're an inspiration.

GULMAN: OK, thank you. That's so nice. That doesn't happen every day. Yes, see -- occasionally.

BERMAN: You say the first time you watched the special once it was all cut together, you cried.

GULMAN: Yes -- it hit me that it was over, and I survived. And now I'm thriving.

BERMAN: How do you know you're going to be OK?

GULMAN: Well, I don't, but I am optimistic, and it doesn't dissipate. If anything, the work and the talks that I have given have given me more energy. And I can't thank God, the universe, the computer simulation that we are living in, whatever you -- whatever gets you out of bed. I can't thank that entity enough for saving me.

I am so glad -- are you kidding me -- that I stuck around for this?

(END VIDEOTAPE) [15:50:18]

MARQUARDT: Great conversation there between Gary Gulman and our John Berman.

Still ahead, the critical decisions that the White House is weighing on in the impeachment inquiry.

You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[15:54:11]

MARQUARDT: Priests abusing children, this may be a story you think you have heard before, but there's probably something you don't know. There are powerful institutions within the catholic church that are free to self-police. And a year-long CNN investigation reveals that one of those institutions, the second-largest catholic religious order in the world, has repeatedly failed to protect children from pedophile priests.

CNN senior international correspondent Noma Elbagir has traveled to Europe, Africa, and the United States for her Special Report that airs this Sunday, "abuse and scandal in the catholic church: the case of the predator priest."

Here's a preview and a warning that this report features themes that some viewers may find distressing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An anonymous victim, John Doe, 17, filed a lawsuit that was brought in 2003. John Doe 17 is Joey Piscatelli.

[15:55:04] JOEY PISCATELLI, VICTIM: I was kind of a happy child. I was an artist, I went to a catholic grammar school. I got straight as for eight years.

ELBAGIR: When did that start to change?

PISCATELLI: We were going to play pool, and the priest who was the vice principal, he is the down at the bench, and he said, you shoot. I said, OK, and I shot the ball. And I turned around and told him, it's your turn. And I looked at him and he was sitting there masturbating. And I remember I turned all red, I started sweating, the hair on my neck was standing up. And I just stood there frozen. I didn't know what to do. And he said, keep playing, I want to watch you. And then I turned around, and the head of the boys club, brother Sal, was watching this, and he just stood there watching. He did nothing.

ELBAGIR: Joey Piscatelli drew to cope with the abuse. His pictures becoming more vivid and violent mirroring the nightmare he was living, a nightmare that only got worse. (END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUARDT: Tune in for the CNN Special Report, "Abuse and Scandal in the Catholic Church," tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern time here on CNN.

We will be right back.

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