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Trump Slams France's Macron Ahead of Meeting; House Intelligence Members Reviewing Impeachment Report; Rep. Karen Bass (D- CA) is Interviewed About the Impeachment Inquiry; President Trump Meets with French President Macron at NATO Summit in London. Aired 9- 9:30a ET

Aired December 03, 2019 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:18]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Very good Tuesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Poppy Harlow.

Another big week post-Thanksgiving. In minutes, the president will meet with French President Emmanuel Macron just hours after he called Macron's comments on NATO, quote, dangerous, nasty and insulting -- taking aim at a key ally while seeming to stick up for the organization that he himself has criticized for years.

Trump and Macron set to speak in front of cameras. You all see it live right here.

SCIUTTO: Yes, that bromance didn't quite last.

And while the president is on the world stage, the impeachment threat ramping up back home. The inquiry casting a shadow over the president's overseas trip as he keeps up his attacks on the process from abroad. Today, the House Intelligence Committee will release the report that builds the case in their view for impeachment. Then a vote is set for tonight ahead of the next key hearing tomorrow.

HARLOW: All right. So, let's begin this hour in London where President Trump is already slamming the French president ahead of this morning's bilat between the two.

Our White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins is there.

Good morning. Good afternoon to you, Kaitlan.

A lot to digest already from what the president has said so far today.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Poppy, it did not take long for the tough talk to start here in London. It was the president's first meeting of the day, a breakfast meeting. Even before they had breakfast the cameras were inside the room and the president took questions for 15 minutes where he went after the French leader after making those comments last month to a magazine saying he believed NATO is experiencing a brain death in part because of decisions from President Trump to withdraw U.S. troops from Syria.

Essentially, President Macron is making the argument you could not rely on the United States to be this unwavering ally like other NATO allies had in the past.

Well, the president just responded. He did not like those comments. He believes they were disrespectful and nasty.

And listen to the words. And when you listen to the president here, remember this is the person who once said NATO was obsolete and triggered an emergency session when he was threatening to withdraw the United States from the group.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I heard President Macron said NATO is brain dead. I think that's very insulting to a lot of forces, including a man that does a very good job at running NATO.

You just can't go around making statements like that about NATO. It's very disrespectful.

When France makes a statement like they made about NATO, that's a very dangerous statement for them to make.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: So pretty interesting seeing Trump stand up for NATO. And, of course, this is likely going to be something that comes up when the two of them sit down in a matter of minutes here, his first one-on-one with a world leader.

But, Poppy, something else to consider in the background here is that threat from the Trump administration yesterday for those retaliatory tariffs on French products after the Trump administration said a French digital tax was unfairly taxing American companies. The president said he's fine with taxing American companies but he wants to be the one to do it, not somebody else.

SCIUTTO: Kaitlan Collins in London.

HARLOW: There you go.

SCIUTTO: For the latest on the impeachment process, let's go to Capitol Hill where congressional correspondent Phil Mattingly is.

Walk us through for folks at home what happens next. You got this hearing tomorrow and then what follows?

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so let's start with -- here's what's about to happen and why it matters. Starting tonight, as you guys noted, the House Intelligence Committee will vote to transmit their intelligence committee report, essentially all of the investigation they've done up to this point into the president's actions. And it's a lengthy report. At this point, only a handful of members and a select few staff

members have been able to see it. They're not allowed to remove notes or the report itself. It's held in a compartmentalized room in the basement of the capitol right now.

And that report is, I'm told, lengthy and really a narrative laying out the conclusion the president misused his office in an abuse of power to target a political opponent by withholding U.S. aid. It's largely going to track with what you saw in the public hearings.

Now, once that vote occurs it moves over to the House Judiciary Committee and that's essentially the starting gun for the final vote to impeach the president. That's where articles of impeachment will be drafted.

The first hearing on Wednesday will largely be kind of a nuts and bolts constitutional dialogue back and forth. Four constitutional experts will be up to testify. Three Democratic witnesses, one Republican witness.

Why this all matters, guys, is the president being sent to the Judiciary and Judiciary starting as the official kickoff. This is going to lead to a sprint that will likely end with the president being impeached by the U.S. House.

HARLOW: One thing that I think is really interesting, Phil, as these mock hearings are going on, among Democrats is that even Democrats sitting on the House Judiciary Committee can't agree on or haven't agreed on the scope of the articles of impeachment and what they'd be.

You've got Pramila Jayapal, for example, saying going into the Mueller report. The broader it is, the stronger it is.

You've got Congresswoman Escobar saying, you know, it could be broad, but that will weaken our case among the American people.

[09:05:03]

Keep it focused on Ukraine.

How problematic, or is that problematic for them?

MATTINGLY: Look, the split is real, and I don't think there's any question about that. It's largely divergent based on the different pulse of the Democratic Party.

Remember, there were people like Pramila Jayapal and others who are for impeachment long before Ukraine ever was an issue. They've been pushing for this. There were a lot more, particularly front line Democrats in districts that perhaps President Trump won in 2016 that they flipped in 2018, they're very late to the game, only decided to back this idea, this inquiry once Ukraine came to the forefront.

They have been clear with Speaker Pelosi and her leadership team behind closed doors, I'm told, keep it narrow, keep it focused on Ukraine. And so, that difference is going to have to be worked out. That's why

the judiciary committee is important. We'll see the public hearings but how they decide what the shape and scope of the articles of impeachment will be is still very much in the air and still an open question for debate inside the caucus. One they'll have to figure out.

But, guys, not just figure out but figure out in a very quick time period given the timeline they're working on.

SCIUTTO: So, Kaitlan, before the president went -- left for Europe we heard from people such as Secretary Pompeo saying it's disrespectful for the president to be facing an impeachment hearing at home while representing the country abroad. But it seems the president hasn't lost a step. He seems confident in the way he's speaking in these various bilats.

From covering him and you've covered him for some time, is this weighing over him as he meets with world leaders?

COLLINS: Well, this has been a pattern of the Trump presidency. He's had multiple scandals following him when he's embarked on big summits overseas. And right now, there's an ocean of between him and Washington but it's still very much at the forefront here even for President Trump.

And he says he doesn't believe that it's casting some cloud over his meeting with world leaders. He said he doesn't think it's going to diminish his stances with them while they are talking. But, of course, the president said he believes if it does cast a cloud he thinks it's Democrats doing a disservice by holding this while he's here.

Of course, you just heard from Phil about how Democrats are essentially trying to stick with this timeline and maintain their momentum, while also trying to appear fair to the president. So, even if it wasn't scheduled for tomorrow, it's still something that's looming over all of this. It's something that's very much on the president's mind and something he's continuing to discuss with aides and allies even while here.

But this happened before. It happened with the Mueller investigation. Remember, he was overseas when Michael Cohen was testifying. The president would go and have these meetings with Kim Jong-un and watch that hearing play out. Catch up on it.

So, this is not a new thing for the president we should note.

HARLOW: Good point. Kaitlan, thank you, reporting from London where the president is. Phil Mattingly on the Hill, we appreciate it.

SCIUTTO: Let's speak about more of this with one of the Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee, the site of tomorrow's impeachment hearing, Congresswoman Karen Bass from California.

Congresswoman, we appreciate you taking the time this morning. REP. KAREN BASS (D-CA): Thank you.

SCIUTTO: So we're about a month into the formal impeachment process here. If you look at the polling, support -- public support for impeaching and removing the president from office did not budge an inch from before and after those public hearings. If we put the numbers up, it was 50 percent before the public hearings. It's 50 percent after.

I just wonder, does this show us that Democrats failed to make the case convincingly to the American people?

BASS: Oh, I don't think so at all. And we are still in the middle of the process. However, 50 percent of the people feel that the president should not just be impeached but removed. That is a profound number.

You know if you look back to the Clinton impeachment that it never got above 30 percent of the American public. So the fact that we are starting with 50 percent, I think it's huge.

SCIUTTO: Well, to be fair -- to be fair, and I do take your point, but to be fair, during the Clinton impeachment, parties -- some members of the opposing parties changed sides. You had Democrats vote along with a majority of Republicans to impeach --

BASS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- even for some of the articles of impeachment.

And based at least on public statements, this if it does come to a vote in the House, is going to be a purely party line vote. You may very well as you did on the first vote laying out the ground rules for the impeachment hearing, lose some Democrats.

How concerning is that to you?

BASS: Well, I think it would be most important that it is bipartisan. And if you look back to the Clinton impeachment, it was a handful, four or five Democrats that voted for it. If we had a few Republicans, I think that that would be a very powerful situation.

And I just think it's sad because they do know this is a serious problem. They know that, which is why they only argue about process. They can't argue about content.

They -- several of them as you know even came forward and said they don't think what the president did was right. And then he blasted them. So they are left with nothing but to defend him. And I think that it doesn't look very good for them because they know the facts are there.

[09:10:03]

The facts are very, very loud and for them to just focus on process, I think is really pathetic. SCIUTTO: Given that that's the reality, though, and again, based on

public statements, you are heading for a party line vote, would it make sense for Democrats to consider a step short of impeachment, perhaps a censure vote where you could get, possibly, again, and this is no guarantee, but get some Republican votes on board?

BASS: I think until the Republicans decide that they have the power amongst them to stand up to this president, I don't see why it would make a difference whether it was censure or impeachment. And that's one of the things that is profoundly different. We have never had a president before that was abusive, that was a bully, that would threaten.

And I just wish that my Republican colleagues would have more courage. You know, I recall a time in California when the Republicans had to vote for taxes. And they knew if they voted for taxes that they would never be an elected official again.

But we had a $40 billion deficit and they voted anyway. I want to see my Republican colleagues have a backbone and say, is this seat that I hold so important that I would compromise the national security, and I would compromise the next election? I think what's at stake here is so much more important than their individual elections.

And one final point, if all of them stood together, or even 20 or 30 of them stood together, and voted the right way, voted the way they know is right, he can't defeat all of them. So I think at the end of the day, you have to make a decision in your conscience. What's more important, my individual seat or the health of our election process?

SCIUTTO: Question before I let you go. After this impeachment process is over, as you know, it is not high. Impeachment is not high on the list of concerns of American voters. Polling shows that consistently.

BASS: Right.

SCIUTTO: Health care, et cetera.

Name one piece of legislation that you feel Democrats should focus on and work with Republicans on to get passed after the inquiry is over.

BASS: Well, I could tell you several, but if you want one, lowering the price of prescription drugs. That is an issue in everyone's district. And Republicans should work with us on that.

You know that we have passed over 200 pieces of legislation. So the question should really be asked to McConnell, why won't he even look at some of the legislation that was passed here in the House? And some of it has been bipartisan.

SCIUTTO: Congressman Karen Bass, I should note, you're also the chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus. Thanks for joining the program this morning.

BASS: Thanks for having me on. HARLOW: And Mitch McConnell is welcome on any time.

SCIUTTO: Absolutely. Open invitation, Senator.

HARLOW: To answer those questions.

Moments from now from what could be a very -- excuse me -- intense meeting between Presidents Trump and Macron, President Trump launching attacks on the French president just a few hours ago.

SCIUTTO: Trump called Macron's previous comments about NATO insulting and nasty. Of course, remember, President Trump himself has called the military alliance obsolete and leveled his own broadsides at the alliance.

Stay with us for all the breaking news coverage that's happening as we're on the air.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CO-ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: President Trump set to meet with a key ally on the sidelines of the NATO Summit, but just hours ago, he was very publicly criticizing that same ally on the world stage. Any moment now, Trump and French President Emmanuel Macron will speak with reporters in London.

POPPY HARLOW, CO-ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: This should be interesting, the president just earlier -- a few hours ago slammed Macron's comments when he described NATO as, quote, "brain dead". But President Trump, of course, has also had some choice words for the alliance over the years. Let's bring back CNN White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins.

Also joining us, CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson, and "New York Times" national security correspondent David Sanger. Great to have all of you as we wait and of course, we'll carry the comments from Macron and the president live here. Take a listen to how the president responded, Kaitlan to Macron's criticism of the NATO alliance, specifically referring to the Syrian -- the Turkish incursion into northern Syria.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I heard that President Macron said NATO is brain dead. I think that's very insulting to a lot of different forces. Nobody needs NATO more than France. And, frankly, the one that benefits really the least is the United States. That's why I think that when France makes a statement like they made about NATO, it's a very dangerous statement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Kaitlan, he also said at one point that he sees France breaking off from NATO. That's a huge statement to make. KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And it's a pretty

stunning role reversal because normally it's President Trump making comments like that, and other leaders here at a NATO gathering criticizing the president for threatening the alliance. And of course, now, we're here marking the anniversary, the 70th anniversary and you're seeing this role reversal with President Trump is instead the one who is making those comments about something the French leader said.

But of course, a lot of this has to do with two things. One, Macron's criticism of NATO had to do with President Trump. He was saying that it was in part because of President Trump, and you can no longer rely on the United States to be this unwavering ally in the NATO alliance. So, it's less of a direct -- or less of a criticism broadly of NATO and more one that was focused on the United States and on President Trump.

[09:20:00]

But two, you also cannot ignore these tariffs that are looming in the background. Something that the Trump administration was threatening just yesterday, saying that they conducted this review and found that this French digital tax they say discriminated against American companies, and now they're considering responding by levying their own tariffs, a 100 percent tariffs of their own.

So, that's also something because, of course, President Macron made this comment about NATO and brain dead over last month. Something that he and the German leader have been engaged in this tit-for-tat over, and now President Trump weighing in just moments before their meeting happening any minute.

SCIUTTO: Nic, it struck me as most notable in the president's comments there, is him again saying, you know, that the U.S. does not benefit from NATO --

HARLOW: From NATO --

SCIUTTO: Just repeating his very transactional view of really every alliance. I mean, he's said similar things about other key decades- old alliances here. And I just wonder as you cover the NATO conference there, what is the degree of concern about President Trump's commitment to NATO?

There's been talk, a threat that if President Trump is re-elected, he might pull out of the alliance entirely. An alliance which of course, the U.S. benefits from enormously as a counter-balance to Russia as it becomes more aggressive in Europe.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: And this is really to President Macron's point. Is that he believes that President Trump, whether he gets re-elected or not, has set the United States ultimately on a course that disengages it from NATO. And this is why President Macron thinks that there should be a European defense pact. And this Europe should handle its own security regardless of the

United States. You know, I think what we've heard today from President Trump saying I used to be angry at NATO, but now saying I don't feel that way. They're flexible. It's done really well. I've done really well raising an additional $130 billion.

Well, NATO says since 2016, President Trump actually says it's every year, annually is what he said, which is stretching the facts so far. It's predicted to go up $400 billion over the next four years. But I think, you know, this is -- this sort of mocking of President Trump saying something different and more positive about NATO really speaks to the diplomacy of the NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg who's basically seen President Trump come into the alliance, demand more money.

It's been down to Stoltenberg to try to raise that, and now, he's been able to do --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

ROBERTSON: This ahead of this --

HARLOW: Yes --

ROBERTSON: Leaders meeting, saying, look, we've been able to do this, President Trump, you should take credit. President Trump is now bought in to NATO, you know, as we talk about in transactional, he's now -- you know, Stoltenberg's transacted him into being --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

ROBERTSON: Being a supporter it seems for today at least.

SCIUTTO: That's a good, you could say Stoltenberg deserves an enormous amount of credit for kind of keeping it together in these sort of challenge --

HARLOW: A 100 percent --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HARLOW: Pretty effective at his job. David Sanger, let me ask you about something that you're an expert in, and that is China. Comments from the president this morning that maybe better to wait until after the 2020 election for U.S.-China trade agreement. We'll see what the markets think about that in about seven minutes. How significant is that from the president on the world stage today?

DAVID SANGER, NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, it's fairly significant, Poppy, because it means that all of the issues that are coming to fore for American farmers because of the tariffs that Chinese have put on and so forth --

HARLOW: Yes --

SANGER: Would carry through, through to the election. And that's -- HARLOW: Yes --

SANGER: Pretty dangerous for the president. He's been busy basically funneling money, federal money to the farmers and others --

HARLOW: Yes --

SANGER: To make up for their -- for their lost business. You know, I think on our earlier conversation about Macron's statement, you know, what's fascinating about this, is they're talking about different things. The president's focus on NATO is all about how much money the Europeans are paying into it. An issue that goes back to the Bush and Obama administrations.

They all complained about that. I think that Macron is complaining about what the NATO mission is, and whether the United States --

SCIUTTO: Right --

SANGER: Would really come to their defense.

HARLOW: Right --

SANGER: And he's got good reason to question that.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and --

HARLOW: Yes --

SCIUTTO: There's genuine concern about that. Before we go, it struck me that you have -- while you have this division between the U.S. and its allies, say France and a very public rhetorical back and forth, the two folks who are on message today are Trump and Putin. Actually, Trump telling reporters that it's important for NATO to speak to Russia.

No mention of Russia's continued illegal occupation of Ukraine and Putin, minutes later, saying that NATO -- oh, Russia rather is ready to cooperate with NATO. Kaitlan, in your reporting, is there any substance to this? Are the U.S. and Russia talking about NATO and Russia talking?

COLLINS: Well, the question would be if the president and Putin have discussed that, and what they've said about NATO. And of course, when the president makes comments essentially undermining NATO, you'd seen this working in their favor. And that's another interesting point going back to what David was saying about how Macron's criticism was about --

SCIUTTO: Kaitlan, hold your thought --

[09:25:00]

COLLINS: What the president has done here in abrupt --

SCIUTTO: Hold your thought, Kaitlan, we have live pictures now on the president speaking. Let's listen in.

TRUMP: Helicopters was -- they said I've gotten new report on it. We talked about it, and please give my condolences to the families and to France. A great pleasure, you've done a fantastic job in that whole area. It's a tough area, so we appreciate it very much.

We'll be talking about a lot of things, including NATO and including trade. We do a lot of trade with France and we have a minor dispute, I think we'll probably be able to work it out. But we have a big trade relationship, and I'm sure that within a short period of time, things will be looking very rosy. We hope. That's usually the case with the two of us. We get it worked out.

We've had a lot of good -- a lot of good things. We've done a lot of good things together as partners. Our countries have been partners in many good ventures, including some having to do with radical Islam and others. And it's always worked out. So, I look forward to our discussion.

We've made a lot of progress in our first 25 minutes, and we intend to make a lot of progress in our next hour, maybe hour and a half. So, thank you very much.

EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT, FRANCE (through translator): Thank you. Thank you, Mr. President, I'm very happy to answer the president in London, thank him for -- and what he said for our soldiers. And in Paris yesterday and what happened in Mali, and thank you for the solidarity and also the participation on the territory.

The president said we've started our discussions, first of all, on the bilateral plan, economic trade, and we've started to talk about things in Biarritz once again, we're talking about the digital world, trade and the measures we've taken for our economies. There is also NATO.

And once again, we've talked about international affairs and, clearly, during the summit, that concerns also, the different members of NATO within the heart of the international coalition. And what we are doing, the talks I've said repeatedly, the cooperation between our two countries, either military, economic, diplomatic are important.

Sometimes we're not always in agreement such as climate change. But on the fight against terrorism and the basic commitments of our soldiers, our teams work hand-in-hand, and I think I can say, we share the objective, and we've been able to find a solution for the problems that were faced. I'm very happy to have this exchange and to shortly progress about things during this summit.

Final questions for our -- which have not been discussed so far. Europe, the problems of threats on the borders and how also to act more effectively when faced with our enemies such as terrorism because everyone must be very clear on the objectives. That's it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump, do you have a better understanding of what President Macron was saying about NATO?

TRUMP: Well, we just began discussing NATO. And what I'm liking about NATO is that a lot of countries have stepped up -- I think really, at my behest. And to also, yourself, you're close to the level, but they've stepped up and they've put up a lot of money. I told you it was $130 million -- $130 billion, and that's a lot.

And they're now stepping up again. It's going to be $400 billion. Well, we're very sure we have commitments for $400 billion. And we just left the Secretary-General, and he's got some things that are very important. And I discussed with him the flexibility so that we have it not just with one area of the world.

You and I discuss this all the time. We have all areas of the world because NATO is a lot different than it was, and now it's certainly a lot different over the last three years. So, we have a lot of countries stepping up and putting up a lot of money. The number as of this moment is exactly $131 billion. That's a year.

END