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Pelosi To Proceed With Articles of Impeachment; Trump Aiming to Turn Tables on Dems in Senate Trial; Biden Confronts Voter at Town Hall; Democratic Primary Power Rankings. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired December 05, 2019 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, I'm Brooke Baldwin, you're watching CNN. Thank you for being with me. So, here's the story today. Right around eight o'clock this morning, President Trump issued this challenge to House Democrats. Here's the quote, "If you are going to impeach me, do it now, fast, so we can have a fair trial in the Senate, and so that our country can get back to business." Alright, so then about an hour later House Speaker Nancy Pelosi stepped before the microphone and granted his request.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): The President leaves us no choice but to act because he is trying to corrupt, once again, the election for his own benefit. Sadly, both confidence and humility, with allegiance to our founders, and a heart full of love for America, today I am asking our Chairman to proceed with articles of impeachment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And now, a day after the first hearing, and the House Judiciary Committee, the panel that will draft those articles of impeachment, the big question is what's next. Will Democrats keep the focus solely on Ukraine, or will they expand it to include the Mueller report. And once the House hands it off to the Senate, how long could that trial last?

And also, what exactly is the White House's strategy here? Let's start things off today with CNN Senior Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju, tracking all the fast moving developments for us up on Capitol Hill. And Manu, we know the next step is for House Judiciary and this hearing on Monday. Tell us more about that.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, that hearing is going to focus on the House Intelligence Committee's report that will detail the findings of the investigation that occurred over the past two months, looking into the President's handling of Ukraine matters that- what the Democrats believe is misconduct in office.

How he abused his office, in their view, by pursuing investigations into the Bidens. Asking Ukraine to do that, while withholding vital military aide, at the same time as withholding a meeting the President of Ukraine had sought. Also though, at that hearing, the House Judiciary Committee's counsels will also present it's findings from it's investigations regarding obstruction of justice.

That's going to be part of the discussion as well, going forward. Now, also going forward will be what those articles of impeachment actually look like. Nancy Pelosi has some decisions to make about exactly what to include in those articles of impeachment. She may have tasked her Chairman to do this, but ultimately it will be her call. And those articles of impeachment likely are going to focus on three topics: one abuse of power, two obstruction of congress, also obstruction of justice certainly on the table.

That would likely include some elements of the Mueller Report. Now, after those articles are formally introduced, that's when the House Judiciary Committee, who actually vote on those articles, and that's probably going to happen as soon as next week, Brooke, before we move on to the full House action the week after, and that would set up a pre-Christmas vote to make Trump the third President in history to get impeached. Before then-

Then of course it would go to the Senate where they're expecting January to be filled with the trial. Probably could take up to a month, if not longer, maybe shorter. All that still needs to be worked out, but we are moving quickly to some place that we have rarely been in American history. In the aftermath of Pelosi's announcement, something that most Democrats here I talk to are strongly supportive of, so there's virtually no doubt, Brooke, that President Trump will get impeached in just a matter of weeks. Brooke.

BALDWIN: Manu, thank you very much for that. The timeline as for this, for months, critics of the impeachment inquiry claimed this whole thing is nothing but a partisan exercise based on Democrats' hatred of President Trump. In fact one of Trump's biggest allies, Georgia Congressman Doug Collins, repeated that belief during Wednesday's hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP DOUG COLLINS (R-GA): The Chairman talked a lot about the founders from the quotes, and again this is why we have the hearing, about the founders concerned about foreign influence, but what he also didn't quote was the founders being really, really concerned about political impeachment, because you just don't like the guy. You didn't like him since November of 2016.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So here is what happened when a reporter from Sinclair Broadcast Group asked Speaker Pelosi this morning if that was true. Ok, so- I can essentially tell you and I'll bring in Senior White House Correspondent Pamela Brown because we saw Speaker Pelosi and, basically we don't have the sound, I just want to be totally transparent with everyone, but she's asking, "Do you hate the President?" She walks back over to that microphone and she basically says, you know, "I pray for the President, I've always prayed for the President. I'm a good Catholic and I don't hate anyone." This is a rough idea of what she said, and we'll get the sound in just

a second, but President Trump, Pamela, wasted no time saying that the Speaker had, his words, "a nervous fit." Earlier he claimed that Republicans have never been more united as he braces for a Senate impeachment trial.

Hang on one second, Pamela, I'm being told now we have the sound. So here was Speaker Pelosi today.

[14:04:53]

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you hate the President, Madame Speaker?

PELOSI: I don't hate anybody-

REPORTER: Representative Collins-

PELOSI: I don't have a (unintelligible), as a Catholic we don't hate anybody. Not anybody in the world. So, don't accuse me...

REPORTER: I did not accuse you.

PELOSI: You did. You did.

REPORTER: I asked a question. Representative Collins yesterday suggested that the Democrats are doing this simply because they don't like the guy.

PELOSI: That has nothing to do with it.

REPORTER: I think it's an important point.

PELOSI: I think the President is a coward when it comes to helping our kids who are afraid of gun violence. I think he is cruel when he doesn't deal with the- helping our Dreamers, of which we are very proud. I think he's in denial about the -- about the climate crisis. However, that's about the election. This is about the election, take it up in the election. This is about the Constitution of the United States, and the facts that lead to the President's violation of his oath of office.

And as a Catholic, I resent your using the word hate in a sentence that addresses me. I don't hate anyone. I was raised in a way that is a heart full of love and always pray for the President. I still pray for the President. I pray for the President all the time. So don't mess with me when it comes to words like that.

BALDWIN: Hmm, so, that was Speaker Pelosi. The question for you, Pamela, is how is the White House preparing for this?

PAMELA BROWN, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Look, this, in many ways, is what the President has been dreading, Brooke, but it's also an eventuality that the White House has been preparing for and it is now setting it's sights squarely on the Senate trial. President Trump today, he called on Democrats to vote quickly to impeach him. Now that Speaker Pelosi has said, Brooke, the House is proceeding with

articles of impeachment. And the President also, Brooke, is claiming to know the witnesses who would be called in the Senate trial including Speaker Pelosi, House Intel Chair Adam Schiff as well, and the Bidens.

But while that may be a White House wish list, it is up to Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to ultimately decide who will be called and, no doubt, the White House is looking forward to getting past the House Judiciary Hearings going to the Senate where it believes it will score more political points and distract from central allegations against the President, since, of course, Republicans are in majority in the Senate.

But the White House here, they've been focused on two different tracks, a communications strategy and the legal strategy. White House Counsel Pat Cipollone will take the lead in the Senate trial, he has been talking regularly with Republican lawmakers. The counsels office has spent that last few weeks mounting a robust defense of President Trump, researching what past president's have done, as they prepare to argue in the Senate that Trump was well within his rights to put conditions on a meeting with Ukrainian President Zelensky and hold up military aid.

And we're also told, Brooke, we should mention the White House will respond soon to Judiciary Chairman's letter inviting it to participate in the next hearing. The expectation is that the White House will turn down that invitation. Brooke?

BALDWIN: Alright, Pamela Brown, at the White House. Pamela, thank you, and please join us tonight. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi will take questions on the impeachment, the 2020 election, and more, in a live CNN town hall moderated by Jake Tapper. That is at nine o'clock eastern, only here on CNN.

We have so much more on this historic day, with House Democrats working to draft articles of impeachment. We'll break down what those articles could look like, with Allie Honig coming up. Also ahead, Rudy Giuliani keeps digging in on debunked conspiracy theories, making this surprise visit to Ukraine with a pro Trump news network. All the while he is under federal investigation so we're wondering, what's he up to. And, why did Joe Biden just go off on a voter at a campaign stop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I did not on any occasion, and no one has ever said it, not one.

UNIDENTIFIED: I didn't say you were doing anything wrong.

BIDEN: You said I set up my son to work at an oil company. Isn't that what you said? Get your words straight, Jack.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:08:55] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Back to our big stories, Speaker Pelosi announcing today that House Democrats will move forward with articles of impeachment. Now, the specifics could be hammered out as soon as next week as the calendar winds to a full House vote before Christmas, but what could those articles of impeachment actually look like?

Elie Honig is here, he's a CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor and so let's just dive in. What would they look like and what hints have we gotten in the last couple of days that could tell us?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, Brooke, so like you said, Congress has given us several really important clues as to what the articles of impeachment could look like, just over the last couple of days. So first of all, it's pretty clear their going to lead with Ukraine. Adam Schiff gave us some really powerful words in his intel report that he filed earlier in the week.

He wrote that, "The President placed his own personal and political interests above the national interests of the United States, sought to undermine the integrity of the US presidential election process, and endangered US national security." And I think what he was trying to do there was answer the question, why, why is this enough, why is it impeachable?

[14:15:00]

Now, I do not think he is going to phrase this as a crime. I think he is going to phrase it broadly as abuse of power, because if you look back at history it tells us you do not have to allege quid pro quo, bribery, extortion, anything like that.

BALDWIN: No bribery, no quid pro quo?

HONIG: I do not think we will see that. Alexander Hamilton gave us a clue there, he told us that impeachment is for political offenses. So it's broader than quid pro quo, it's broader than robbery (sic).

BALDWIN: How will Republicans, then, defend Trump on this?

HONIG: They're not going to just take it lying down, they certainly will raise a defense. So we got an important indicator here, in their intel report from the Republican side their first defense that they raised was that "President Trump has a deep-seated genuine, and reasonable skepticism of Ukraine due to its history of pervasive corruption." So they are going with Donald Trump, international corruption buster.

Now I think that is a really risky move, because if you think about it, what corruption cases has Donald Trump ever dug into other than the Bidens in 2016. He was actually asked that question a few months ago by a reporter, and here was his response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have you asked any foreign leaders for any corruption investigations that don't involve your political opponents? Are there other cases...

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.: You know, we would have to look...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HONIG: "We would have to look." I guess they're still looking.

BALDWIN: What about beyond abuse of power, what about obstruction of Congress?

HONIG: So, I think article two will be obstruction of Congress based on the President's policy of really fighting every subpoena. Schiff wrote, "Donald Trump is the first President in the history of the United States to seek to completely obstruct an impeachment inquiry undertaken by the House of Representatives." Don't let Adam Schiff tell you, let Donald Trump tell you himself. Here is Donald Trump's blanket policy when it comes to subpoenas.

TRUMP: We're fighting all the subpoenas... I have an article two, where I have the right to do whatever I want as President

HONIG: Article two does not give the President the right to do whatever he wants. But indeed this is diff- Richard Nixon even complied with some subpoenas, and even with that he still had to draft articles of impeachment for obstruction of Congress, so I think it's a sure thing that we will see that as article two.

BALDWIN: The other huge question has is, there's been this debate within the party about if they include, you know, some of the findings from the Mueller investigation. And, just bluntly, do you think they should?

HONIG: It's an important tactical debate, there seems to be maybe a little bit of a split. Jerry Nadler came on very strong in his testimony, he said, "President Trump took extraordinary and unprecedented steps to obstruct the investigation," referring to Mueller. Seems like he's leaning towards having it as it's own article. Adam Schiff seems to be perhaps taking a different tact of not having it as a separate article of impeachment, but using it as necessary background to explain Ukraine.

BALDWIN: What does that mean?

HONIG: In order to give the full explanation of what happened in Ukraine, the way Adam Schiff put it. Remember, by the way, the call with Zelensky happened the day after Robert Mueller testified, and the way Adam Schiff puts it, "the solicitation of new foreign intervention was the act," and this is a great phrase, "of a president unbound, not one chastened by experience." "A president unbound." In other words, he got fair warning, he got away with Mueller, but then he did it again the very next day. It's a good title for a book, The President Unbound. BALDWIN: President unbound. Again, House Judiciary meeting on Monday. Thank you so much for the explainer on the articles, potential articles. Elie Honig for us today. Joe Biden goes off on a voter at a campaign stop, challenging him to a push-up contest and calling him an, I quote, "A damn liar." Also ahead, Hillary Clinton finally takes up Howard Stern's offer, appears on his show, who she truly blames for losing the presidential election. We'll be right back.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Former Vice President Joe Biden had a pretty tense exchange with a voter in Iowa. During a town hall, a man told the former Vice President he's too old to run for President. The 82-year-old Biden challenged him to do some push-ups or run with him. The man also accused the former Vice President of sending his son Hunter over to Ukraine to work for a gas company, and it went on from there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Look, here's the deal, here's the deal...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like you don't have any more backbone than Trump does.

BIDEN: Any other questions?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not voting for you.

BIDEN: Well I knew you weren't, man. You think I thought- you're too old to vote for me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Just another day on the campaign trail. CNN Politics Reporter Chris Cillizza with me and, by the way, I think we aged Joe Biden, I think we wrote 82, I think he's in his late 70's.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yeah, no, 76.

BALDWIN: Thank you. He's showing that he's ready to rumble. What do you think of how he responded?

CILLIZZA: Yeah, I mean, look, the age thing and push-up contest are sort of the stuff of Saturday Night Live satire. But on the Hunter Biden piece, Brooke, I think what he did is smart, which is to say- The guy said, "You put your son in that job." - And say, "No, I had nothing to do with it," because I do think it is really important, you have to correct errors whether they are on purpose or on accident in the moment. We know these things grow lives of their own. Joe Biden is not going to change everybody's mind, but you have to, when the facts are on your side, remind people that they've got the facts wrong.

[14:25:00] BALDWIN: You also have some new power rankings, as of course the candidates battle it out for the top spot. So what's your- what position are you in?

CILLIZZA: Yeah, let me run through these. I do these with Harry Enten, we do it every two weeks. We do a top ten, so let's quickly, I'm unveiling them- these are our brand new ones, no one has seen them until right now- well, I mean, I've seen them.

Okay, so we had to rejigger this a little bit, Brooke, because we had obviously Kamala Harris in here until a couple of days ago when she dropped out of the race, but I think on that first slide there pay attention to Michael Bloomberg, we've moved him up three spots since the last time we did this. I think the reason is he puts his money where his mouth is, 57 million dollars in ad spending in states that vote March 3rd and beyond.

Let's see if that ad spending yields results. There's some early polling that suggests he's benefitting a little bit from spending that kind of money, but everyone below him is going to struggle to compete financially as we go forward, Michael Bloomberg will not. Now let's go to the top five, because I think that's where most people are most interested at this point.

And I would say we have Amy Klobuchar at five, Bernie Sanders at four, Elizabeth Warren at three, Pete Buttigieg at two, and Joe Biden at one. I want to focus on the last three there: three, two, and one. Warren has struggled a little bit in the last six weeks or so, she obviously surged over the summer, Brooke, she has faded back some. Buttigieg is ahead in Iowa and New Hampshire, if those races were held today he would win both. They're not held today, which is why he's not number one.

Joe Biden, who we just talked about. Man, he is taking a lot of hits but he keeps on ticking, he is now in a better place than he was a month ago without question, Brooke. His support among black voters continues to be the spine on which that campaign relies. He remains, as he has been, effectively, almost every time we've done these rankings, not every time, but the person most likely to be the nominee.

BALDWIN: What do you think of the John Kerry endorsement that he picked up today?

CILLIZZA: So, I'm a little bit skeptical of endorsements, cause I go back to 2004 when Al Gore endorsing Howard Dean before Iowa was supposed to be the final piece of the Howard Dean puzzle. And interestingly enough, it was John Kerry that came and beat Howard Dean in Iowa, won New Hampshire, and the race was over.

I think that Joe Biden's argument is bolstered, if you believe Joe Biden's argument, which is effectively, "I'm the one who can beat Trump, and the most important thing to do is to beat Trump." Every time you have someone who has been a nominee, like John Kerry has been the presidential nominee, saying "I know this guy, I trust him. I trust his judgement, and I believe he is our best chance of winning" it helps. But if you're an Elizabeth Warren supporter, and you see John Kerry support Joe Biden, is that going to change your mind? It's not.

BALDWIN: Good. Chris Cillizza, thank you.

CILLIZZA: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: As the President faces impeachment over foreign interference into a political rival, believe it or not his personal attorney is still traveling overseas to do that very thing. More on his secret mission. Plus Howard Stern finally has something he's always wanted, Hillary Clinton finally goes on his show. She did not hold back, talking sex, love, and what she really thinks of Republicans.

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