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Naval Air Station Shooting; House Drafts Impeachment Articles; November Jobs Report. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired December 06, 2019 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:31:28]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we have really unfortunate news to bring you on this breaking, developing story of this shooting in Pensacola, Florida, on the Naval Air Station there.

Another confirmed fatality. Jim, that brings the number of fatalities here up to two.

In addition to that, we know that the person who was the active shooter is also dead. So that shooter has murdered two people that we know of so far. Potentially more. And still an unknown number of injured.

Victor Blackwell, I believe we have covering all of this with more details for us.

Victor, what can you tell us?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: So we just received the update from an official at NAS Pensacola. As you said, the two victims in this shooting, so that's two dead. In addition to those two, the shooter. Again, we don't know if that person's death is the result of gunfire from law enforcement or others or if it was self- inflicted.

And according to this public information official at NAS Pensacola, three injured. Now, we had received the number of five injured from Baptist Health. So we're getting -- and people who have unfortunately followed this type of incident, these mass shootings now, and this qualifies as one, understand that in the immediate minutes and hours after an incident like this, the information is coming in quickly from several different sources.

But I'll tell you, the latest we have from NAS Pensacola, two victims killed, the shooter dead, and three others injured. Of course, we know that ATF, according to that agency, there is a search of the buildings on this base right now. And the FBI has sent teams from Pensacola, Jacksonville, Mobile, Alabama, to assist in this investigation. Those are the latest numbers we have from law enforcement, Jim and Poppy.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And that would put the casualty figure at six, shooter dead, two others killed. In addition to that, three injured and, again, no word on their condition yet.

HARLOW: Yes.

BERMAN: Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon.

Barbara, do we know yet if any of the wounded or killed are service members here? I know the information is coming in -- coming in slowly.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: We do not know that at this time, Jim.

Look, on these large military bases, a number -- large numbers of people go in and out of the gate every single day, contractors, people who perform services on board the base, thousands of family members perhaps.

This is part of the problem for the U.S. military. Thousands of people have legitimate access to military bases around the country. They have very strong security measures, but they are simply not able to search every vehicle, every person coming in and out. It can be tens of thousands at one base alone and search them for illegal weapons or contraband.

The military has struggled with this problem for years. We saw the shooting several years ago at Ft. Hood in Texas. Thirteen people were killed there. A mass shooting right here in Washington at the Navy Yard. Chattanooga, Tennessee. Pearl Harbor earlier this week. And now this.

And so where are we? The gun policy, how do you get a gun aboard a military base that is under such strict controls? We all know you can get a gun in somewhere if you want to perform an illegal act. So this is a very tough thing.

There are rules. If you are going to bring a weapon aboard a base, you have to have authority, you have to have permission. If you're going to store it at your home on a base, there are very strict rules about storing it.

[09:35:04]

But, still, the U.S. military, for years now, has been very concerned about the number of weapons on bases that people do have that are not part of their own military security duties. They're not military police necessarily. They are people who have the right to bear arms in this country, but a lot of concern in the Pentagon about this gun policy.

So now seeing another two incidents this week. We don't know the circumstances. We have to emphasize that. But it just is making the issue come up again about gun policy and getting guns aboard military bases in this country, which are supposed to be highly secure.

Jim. Poppy.

HARLOW: Thank you very much. Please stay there.

We have Cedric Alexander, one of our experts on all of this, joining us on the phone.

And as I understand, you lived there for a matter of years as well, is that right?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN COMMENTATOR (ph) (via telephone): Not only lived there. I live here now, Poppy. So this is home for me.

HARLOW: Yes.

ALEXANDER: Here in Pensacola. So I'm currently residing here in Pensacola itself.

HARLOW: What is your reaction to this, and what can you tell us? Again, I mean the headlines are horrific.

ALEXANDER: Well --

HARLOW: You've got two murdered, at least -- at least three injured. The shooter dead.

ALEXANDER: You know I could -- yes, absolutely.

You know -- you know, myself being a former law enforcement person and having had the unfortunate experience of responding to these types of events over the years is very -- it's very saddening.

But what -- what is more touching not only to me, but also to the residents here in Pensacola, throughout Escambia County --

HARLOW: Yes.

ALEXANDER: And throughout this entire region, that Naval Air Station means the world to all of us. That is the cradle of aviation. It is an economic engine in this community. It's a community out there, that naval base, which we all have a great deal of respect and love for.

So it is very touching, very sad for us this -- today. And I can tell you, for the residents that are here in northwest Florida, we are all very hurt and disturbed by this. And we're all on alert. We all are paying attention. And our hearts and prayers go out to those who lost their lives that were injured.

So this is very painful to watch when it occurs right here in your own backyard.

HARLOW: Yes.

ALEXANDER: And I know the wonderful residents here throughout this community, throughout Pensacola, throughout the county and the region. We're just really touched by this, this morning.

SCIUTTO: Yes, I mean, here we are again, multiple American families will have to say good-bye to relatives as a result of gun violence. Let's hope the figures stay where they are.

Cedric, let me ask you this. Americans imagine military bases are unusually safe installations. What are the rules when you're driving on the base with a gun? Is it easy to hide a gun? Do they check for people as they come on? What are the rules?

ALEXANDER: Well, I think, for most of us, whether you've been military or not, any time you go onto a military installation, certainly there's a vehicle stop to determine where you're going, who you're going to see or whatever the case may happen to be.

But just like in any other situation, this -- weapons can get up on a base and -- as they can get anywhere else.

But the bigger issue to me, quite frankly, is that in spite of that, they are -- they are -- I think we're going to have to create some new opportunities in this country for us in terms of how we're going to make sure that citizens and communities stay safe as best that they can. And that is a very challenging and tough issue. But when it hits you right at home, I think it's something for all of us to begin to step back and begin to continue to think about.

No one has no one particular answer to this. I think there's arguments on both sides of the aisle around this issue around guns. But the issue is here for me, being a member of this community and for those that are in this community, and there's great law-abiding citizens in this community, they are good patriots and Americans that live in this community, and we're all very hurt and disturbed by what just occurred on this military base because it is representative -- that base is representative of us as a nation and who we are and got (ph) strength and we're going to get past this. But this morning is really very painful for us. But we're going to get past this event itself.

But as a nation itself, this can happen anywhere. These shootings happen anywhere.

SCIUTTO: Sure.

ALEXANDER: We see this occur on a more frequent basis than what we care to.

[09:39:52]

But for all of us as American citizens, we're going to find a way to defeat this and try to do as best we can to keep our military bases safe, to keep our communities safe, so that when these type of events do occur -- and hopefully we can prevent them, minimize them -- but should they occur, as you're going to see in this community, you're going to see communities come together, and we're going to be supportive of those who have lost their lives and those who have been injured and those who are going to be traumatically affected that were on that base when this shooting occurred, because there's going to be trauma associated with that.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, some people have lost relatives. Yes, not much you can say to people who have lost people to death, right? Hard to -- hard to tell -- give them an answer that's satisfying after violence like this.

We appreciate having you on the ground there.

Again, you're seeing the law enforcement response. This is just moments ago there. Our knowledge at this point, shooter dead, two additional killed, three injuries in addition to that. And I can imagine, Poppy, in that hospital we were showing earlier, that the herculean efforts are underway to possibly save the lives of others who were injured in this.

HARLOW: Yes, no question. We're going to stay on top of this.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:46:00]

SCIUTTO: Impeachment is moving forward. Right now House Democrats drafting articles of impeachment ahead of another major week in the process. One big question, will the committee take a broader approach by including elements of the Mueller report in those articles? Remember, Mueller found some ten instances of possible obstruction of justice by the president. The next hearing set for Monday. House Judiciary Committee members asked to stay in Washington over the weekend to get to writing those articles and prepare for those hearings.

HARLOW: At the White House, it is deadline day. The White House has until 5:00 Eastern Time today to decide whether or not they will take part in the upcoming hearings in the Judiciary. A pivotal decision, of course, as the Judiciary Committee sets the stage to vote on articles of impeachment very soon.

SCIUTTO: We're joined now by Brittany Shepherd, the national politics reporter for "Yahoo News," and Kim Wehle, she's a former federal prosecutor. Kim also author of the book, "How to Read the Constitution and Why." The Constitution somewhat important in this process as we go forward.

Let me ask you, if I can, first, Kim, being the constitutional expert you are, the focus of Nancy Pelosi in making her announcement yesterday and other Democrats on the relevant committees since then has been really to turn attention to the Constitution, say that based on how the Constitution defined impeachable offenses, that, in effect, Democrats have no choice. Based on your reading of the law and the history here, is that correct?

KIM WEHLE, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I would say, yes. The experts this week that testified in favor of impeachment made clear that the problem here is about interference in the election. If the next election is the only way to hold a president accountable, then we would -- could potentially have a presidency where the president manipulates election after election after election and never actually is -- the wrongdoing isn't addressed. The framers of the Constitution included impeachment in the

Constitution precisely for this kind of situation, to stop a president from manipulating elections because voting really is the heart of our democracy and it's not something that people enjoy across the globe. We are very privileged in America to have that right and impeachment in this moment is really about preserving individual right to vote and, therefore, individual liberties from an overbearing government.

HARLOW: Brittany, in terms of the White House deadline today to decide are they going to take part at all in the Judiciary Committee's hearings starting on Monday, you -- your read is it they are in a lose/lose situation here, why?

BRITTANY SHEPHERD, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, "YAHOO NEWS": Well, essentially the White House's defense has been that we're not going to even give the impeachment inquiry much daylight at all because it's a sham. But allies of the president, and the president himself, have also said, look, I have -- should have the right to a fair trial --

HARLOW: Right. Right.

SHEPHERD: And should look my accusers right in the eye. Well, if you'll not going to come up to The Hill, you won't have an opportunity to look those accusers in the eye or at least testify to your understanding of the facts and of reality. So they're kind of stuck in a -- what exactly is my defense playbook. It's why they haven't actually had a formal war room. So why don't we -- why do we have a war room if we have nothing to defend? So it's kind of a tricky negotiating position for them.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Kim, before we go, just briefly, the -- you have something of a debate now. It has to be decided this weekend. Do Democrats include in articles or in additional article elements of the Mueller investigation, specifically regarding obstruction of justice one constitutionally sound in our view?

WEHLE: Sure. Yes, I mean we saw both with Nixon and Clinton articles for obstruction of justice that included witness intimidation and here we will see obstruction of Congress/obstruction of justice. And given the Mueller report, as you indicate, the very series of acts bearing on obstruction of justice, it would make sense to include that in that impeachment article.

HARLOW: Thank you both very much. Sorry it's brief. But, obviously, we've got a lot of breaking news today and we'll keep a very close eye on that. We appreciate your time, Brittany and Kim.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

[09:50:02]

HARLOW: So, the November jobs report is out and it is a blockbuster number. We'll have that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right, so the November jobs report is out this morning and it's really good. The U.S. economy add 266,000 jobs last month. That is up. And it is up from 156,000 jobs added in October.

[09:55:02]

Largely this is because those GM workers returned back to work after the six week strike. Unemployment still at a 50-year low, 3.5 percent.

Kevin Hassett is with me, former chair of the president's Council of Economic Advisers, now a CNN economic analyst.

This is great, great news, Kevin. How much of it is real, especially in the manufacturing bump, and how much of this is because GM folks went back to work?

KEVIN HASSETT, CNN ECONOMIC ANALYST: You know what, I looked at the number and I was very surprised that it was this big. But I really kind of thought that it was ironic because what happened is the president kind of blamed the Fed for making the economy weak and the Fed kind of blamed the trade policy uncertainty for making the economy weak.

And what's happened is that the Chines trade talks have moved in a good direction and the Fed cut interest rates. So those two negative effects have gone way and now we're seeing it really in the jobs numbers. And so maybe they were both right a little bit.

HARLOW: OK, but Janet Yellen, as you know, former Fed chair, is worried. So is Jerome Powell.

HASSETT: Sure.

HARLOW: Janet Yellen said, quote, the odds of a recession are higher than normal, this was last month, and at a level I'm frankly not comfortable with. There is good reason to worry.

Do you share her concern?

HASSETT: Yes, I think that definitely over the next year and a half or so it would be unlikely not to have a recession, you know, right around after an election. It's pretty common in U.S. history. And I think that's one reason why the Fed has gotten ahead of the curve now and started cutting rates again. And I think that the big news is that, you know, looking at the November jobs numbers, that the Fed policy seems to be working and we definitely saw a slowing along with the rest of the globe maybe back in September and now that seems to have reversed itself, which suggests that the Fed's moves have been a positive effect -- had a positive effect.

HARLOW: I would just not that it's very notable that you, just a few months ago, the president's top economist, just said that in a year and a half we're going to have a recession. That -- that's where your money is? HASSETT: Yes, that would be pretty typical. The relative odds of recession starting around the November of a presidential election year are about double. And I think what happens is that as you get closer to the election, people tend to hold off, you know, big ticket purchases --

HARLOW: Right.

HASSETT: And factories stop their expansion a little bit because they're waiting to see who wins. And it only takes a couple of negative quarters to get a recession. And so once you've had sort of a bad fourth quarter because people are worried about the election, then, you know, you're only -- you're halfway to a recession. And so it would be pretty common then.

HARLOW: All right, well that -- that's new and you still don't have a China trade deal. Hopefully we're moving in the right direction. But you heard what the president said this week, on Monday, that totally freaked out the markets. The Dow fell, you know, 400 points when they heard that he said it, that maybe it's better to wait until after 2020 to get a trade deal with China, Kevin.

HASSETT: Yes.

HARLOW: And December 15th is when, in a week, when more tariffs are supposed to kick in on China. Is the president going to do that and what would the impact be on the economy?

HASSETT: I think the tariffs are not going to go in. I think that they're going to come up with some kind of a relatively small phase one deal before December 15th. And then, after that, I think they're probably going to put everything on hold until the election. So I think that we're almost done with the China trade drama for a while.

HARLOW: Let's see.

Kevin Hassett, sorry to make it brief. A lot of news today.

HASSETT: Yes, of course.

HARLOW: But you made news. We appreciate your time. Thank you.

HASSETT: Thank you.

Of course we're following the breaking developments in the tragic situation, the shooting in Florida at the Naval Air Station Pensacola. Two fatalities confirmed. The shooter is dead. Much more right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]