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At Last Two Killed, Shooter Dead At Naval Air Station Pensacola; White House Faces Deadline To Participate In Future Hearings; Trump And GOP Allies Set Sights On Senate Impeachment Trial. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired December 06, 2019 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: It's a busy day this Friday morning. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow.

I wish we had better news for you, but another mass shooting in America. We are following breaking news out of Pensacola, Florida. At least two people were killed when a shooter opened fire at the Naval Air Station in Pensacola this morning. Several others injured. We don't know the extent of their injuries. What we know is the shooter is dead and we do know the FBI, Jim, is on the scene at this hour.

SCIUTTO: That's right. The shooter is dead, two of his or her their victims dead, others injured.

Let's get straight to CNN's Victor Blackwell in Atlanta. Victor, what are we learning now, particularly about the condition of the others injured in that shooting?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: And so we know that there are three others according to a spokesperson there at NAS Pensacola who were injured. No details on the extent of those injuries. We are expecting in about 30 minutes from now a joint news conference between Escambia County Sheriff's Office and NAS Pensacola officials to paint a clearer picture of what happened this morning.

The first reports that we received from Escambia County Sheriff's Office officials, that was in the 8:00 Eastern hour that there was an active shooter there at the sprawling base, tens of thousands of military and civilian employees there. And about 9:00 Eastern, we got the information that the shooter was dead. We do not know if that was the result of gunfire between the shooter and law enforcement or others or if it was a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

We know several people were taken to local hospitals and the number we have now, at least two dead. In addition to that number, the shooter dead, so a total of three, and also the three who were injured. We know that the FBI, they're sending teams from other offices in Pensacola, in Jacksonville, in Mobile, Alabama as well, likely to collect evidence. The ATF telling us there are teams going through the buildings right now searching for other potential people involved or injured in this now mass shooting, as this would qualify.

So we know that the president has been briefed. We know that Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has been briefed and they're offering state support as well. But, again, as we've watched for several years now, Florida especially with another mass shooting, another shooting incident, this time, after what happened at Pearl Harbor at another military installation. Jim, Poppy?

HARLOW: Thank you very much. We appreciate it. Let us know when you get more.

Let's go to the Pentagon. Barbara Starr is with us again this morning. Barbara, what have you heard?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning. The military is going to have to figure out how it is that these types of weapons and attacks have happened aboard these military bases, two bases in one week, Pearl Harbor, of course, a couple of days ago, and this morning, Pensacola.

The military has struggled for several years now to try to figure out how to control weapons on bases. Obviously, bringing weapon, an illegal weapon on a base is not supposed to happen. Military bases are some of the most secure facilities in this country. But in Pensacola, in Pearl, in these places, tens of thousands of people may move on and off the base, go through those gates every day and it's just is not practical to search all of them.

They have tried to button them up a bit but it's been tough. So there have been rules about how and when you may bring a weapon aboard a base. You have to have approval. You have to have authority. If you want to store it in your house on the base, there's all kinds of regulations about how to do that.

Generally speaking, the only people that are supposed to have weapons on bases are security forces, M.P.s, people who need a weapon to do their jobs. Can you have a personal weapon? Yes, but this is very tough business now this week to see two shootings.

And this has been going on for several years. It dates all the way back 2009, Ft. Hood, the mass shooting here in Washington at the navy yard, Chattanooga, Tennessee, four marines killed at a recruiting facilities there and now Pearl Harbor and this. It's going to cause a lot of questions about what the military may be able to do if it can't to further tighten up on its gun policy if it is able to do so. Jim, Poppy?

SCIUTTO: Or what the country does, frankly, because it is from military installations to schools, to Walmarts, to the outsides of restaurants. I mean, we've been at each of these locations every other week this year. The it's a national phenomenon.

Barbara Starr, Victor Blackwell, thanks to both of you.

It is decision day for the White House as the impeachment battle brews on Capitol Hill.

[10:05:01]

The White House has until 5:00 P.M. Eastern Time to decide whether they will participate at all in upcoming hearings. The decision could have major implications as the House Judiciary Committee is drafting up those articles of impeachment.

HARLOW: In the next hearing, public hearing scheduled for Monday morning, House Judiciary members are staying in Washington over the weekend preparing. The committee could vote on articles of impeachment next week.

Last night, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi took part in a CNN town hall. She says the task of drafting articles has been a group effort.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We're operating collectively. It's not going to be somebody puts something on the table. We have our own, shall we say, communication with each other.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: OK.

PELOSI: But I'm not going to answer -- with all due respect -- I'm not going to answer one -- we're not writing the articles of impeachment here tonight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: With us now, David Gergen, he's former presidential adviser to four U.S. presidents, and Liz Wiehl, she's legal counsel to Democrats during the Clinton impeachment.

David, let me begin with you. And you've drawn your decades of experience, including through impeachment processes, like the one we're witnessing now. There was a back and forth as to who benefits politically from this.

I've spoken to Republican lawmakers who claim their internal polling shows they are benefitting in swing districts and you hear from Democrats that while they have no choice, but they expect that the American people might reward them for this. Where do you think it comes down, politically?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't think it has come down yet, Jim. I think they've got to play it out further. Right now, both sides have having to crow about, but both sides have disappointments.

If you are a Democrat activist, you really hope that the hearings in the House would have broken this open, that there would have been a clear momentum in favor of impeachment and removal. That has not happened. On the other hand, if you were a Republican, you were hoping the case would disintegrate by now, and that clearly is not happening either. The country just simply is split.

And I have to tell you, I think there may be more news and more developments before they get to a vote and even after they get to a vote in the House. There may be additional things that people are going to want to look into, what about the Giuliani trip, for example.

HARLOW: Yes. Well, that's why you heard Adam Schiff and others say they are continuing to investigate. But, Gergen, just really quickly to you, and then, Liz, we'll get you in here, but if you were advising this White House, because you've advised four others, would you tell them to play ball and to decide today by the deadline they will participate in the Judiciary Committee's hearings next week?

GERGEN: Absolutely. If they don't participate, they totally undercut the argument, the Republican argument that they've been shut out, that they haven't had a real voice. And by the way, there may be more surprises. Wouldn't you want to have your people in there for more surprises right there? We're coming into the momentous conclusion to this. And I would think the White House, it's a no brainer to me, that they ought to be represented.

SCIUTTO: Liz Wiehl, it strikes me that the sad fact is that nothing has changed in the last three years. In 2016, the Trump campaign sought political dirt on Clinton from Russia. Now, post-Mueller and in the midst of impeachment inquiry, the Trump campaign, via his personal lawyer, is seeking political dirt on Biden in Ukraine, and you have Republicans defending that. Is the fact that the standard now is that foreign help has become acceptable in U.S. elections?

LIZ WIEHL, LEGAL COUNSEL TO DEMOCRATS DURING CLINTON IMPEACHMENT: Well, it makes sense though if you look at it from the GOP perspective. There is a method to Giuliani's madness. If you look at it from the Senate trial perspective, he's going there to mount the defense from the Senate trial perspective. He wants to be able to put evidence from a corruption standpoint.

Now, following here just for a little bit to say, at the Senate trial, look, we found something so that we can go back to that phone call and say when President Trump was asking for a favor, he had something to explain that intent behind that favor.

Now, as crazy as it sounds, that's going to be the defense that the GOP is going to mount at the Senate trial. That makes really no sense from a Democratic perspective, but that is going to be the defense. I don't expect at any point that the White House is going to say that they're going to be -- they're going to be there at the Judiciary Committee today. They're not going to be there. They're not going to be at that. But they will mount a defense at the Senate trial and Giuliani is preparing that right now while he's at the Ukraine.

HARLOW: David. Democrat --

GERGEN: Yes, let's come back in.

HARLOW: Yes, go ahead.

GERGEN: Look, I think what he is doing, working with the person he's working with over there is so tainted that it poisoned the whole effect of what he's trying to do. I mean, to think the main point that's been reported, the main person he's talking to, his father was head of intelligence for the KGB in Ukraine.

[10:10:07]

The man himself graduated from a KGB school in Moscow. And the man himself was a member of French party in the parliament of Ukraine, a pro-Russian party. Are we now going to have impeachment turn on the word of a KGB agent? Come on, give me a break.

WIEHL: That's why though the Democrats on the other side have to use that in their opening statement, if you will, when they present this at the Senate trial. The managers at the Senate trial have to use that. They have to go on the offensive and say exactly that. Are we going to -- they don't have to wait for rebuttal. They have to use that in their offensive on the first count and actually use that in their obstruction count and say, look, Giuliani is over there right now. Is this part of the defense? And actually add that, if you will, not to the counts on the obstruction, but add that if to the defense and the obstruction right in the Senate trial.

HARLOW: We'll have you both back. Clearly, there's a lot to debate here. We'll know a lot more after 5:00 when we know if the White House is going to take part.

David Gergen, Liz Wiehl, thank you. Have a nice weekend.

SCIUTTO: Well, the political stakes certainly high, of course, on the impeachment fight. We'll be speaking to a congresswoman who sits on the House Judiciary Committee, which, of course, will be working through the weekend drawing up these articles of impeachment.

HARLOW: Dramatic moments in an Iowa town hall as Joe Biden gets into a heated exchange with a voter. You'll see that ahead.

Plus, alarming numbers from Uber's new safety report, what we are learning about the extent of sexual assault linked to the ride sharing company.

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[10:15:00]

HARLOW: All right. Welcome back. The next impeachment hearing is set for Monday. Members of the House Judiciary Committee are being asked to stay in Washington this weekend to prepare. One of those members is Congresswoman Debbie Mucarsel-Powell of Florida.

Good morning to you, Congresswoman, and let's just take a step back and begin with the tragic breaking news, the tragic shooting in Pensacola. This is in your state. You lost your own father to gun violence. I'm so sorry. What is your reaction? REP. DEBBIE MUCARSEL-POWELL (D-FL): Thank you. Good morning, Poppy.

My heart breaks to see yet another shooting in my home state in Florida. We've suffered from so many shootings. Just yesterday, there was a shooting in Miami. And this takes a huge emotional toll to the victims, to their families, to our community.

I wanted to say thank you to law enforcement who responded so quickly to the site of the shooting, at the navy base, and also to our healthcare workers who are right now dealing with the consequences of this shooting.

We just have to ask ourselves, Poppy, if we're doing enough to protect our communities from gun violence.

HARLOW: We saw some of those first responders and health care workers, doctors and nurses right outside of the hospital in the images we got in moments ago.

OK. Let's move on to the task at hand for you guys, why you're staying in Washington this weekend. A few -- just quick questions for you on that. What will we see on Monday in this hearing? Why is it important?

MUCARSEL-POWELL: I think that it's very important for the American people to hear directly from the counsel, from the House Intelligence Committee, which will be presenting all the evidence that they've found during the hearings. They received very clear and damning evidence showing that the president has abused the power of his office for his own private and political gain.

And I think it's important that we also, as Judiciary Committee members, hear directly from the counsel of the House Intelligence Committee presenting that evidence directly to us.

HARLOW: What will we see in the articles of impeachment that you guys are drafting and, importantly, will they include anything from the Mueller investigation?

MUCARSEL-POWELL: So, at this point, we're going to stay -- like you mentioned, we're going to stay here throughout the weekend to review all the underlying evidence that we saw during the House Intelligence Committee hearings in the past few weeks.

We haven't decided what we're going to be writing in terms of articles of impeachment, but the abuse of power is clear. It is damning. When we had the hearing this week, all the witnesses agreed that that was a clear abuse of power by the president.

HARLOW: Do you think that anything from the Mueller investigation should be included as a separate article of impeachment?

MUCARSEL-POWELL: I think, personally, what I have seen from this president is a pattern of behavior that shows that he is willing to obstruct justice, which is a violation not only of the Constitution, but it is also a violation of the law. And so we will be discussing that this weekend.

HARLOW: Is that a yes or no, in your personal opinion, to include a Mueller article?

MUCARSEL-POWELL: Personally, I think we should include obstruction of justice. That's my own personal -- but it will be up to leadership, it will be up to the chairman.

HARLOW: OK. I'd like to quote your fellow Democrat in Congress, that is Jeff Van Drew of New Jersey. He says he will vote against articles of impeachment, and he has a warning for his fellow Democrats, quote, "Be careful what you wish for." And he added, impeachment is, quote, "Tearing the nation apart."

What do you make of his argument?

MUCARSEL-POWELL: Look, I think this is a very difficult moment for all of us.

[10:20:02]

Believe me when I tell you, Poppy, that when I came to Congress, I wanted to work on gun violence issues and I wanted to work on reducing healthcare costs. That's why I came here. But now, I'm faced with this decision to make for not only my community, but for the country.

And I come from Latin America, Poppy. And it has been very clear to me to see a president that has abused the office inviting foreign interference. And we are right now in an imminent threat to lose the integrity of our elections.

So for me, and I think everyone has to make their own decision, but, personally, knowing that in my community, we have more than half of the people that have come from countries that are escaping corruption and violence that we can't allow this to happen in the United States of America.

HARLOW: So, Francis Rooney, your Republican colleague from Florida in the House, who you know has been critical of this president, he told me on this show that he's troubled by the phone call with Zelensky on July 25th. He has not ruled out voting to impeach the president. But listen to what he said yesterday about the process.

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REP. FRANCIS ROONEY (R-FL): I think they would be better serving the American people if they slowed down, fought the privilege, got the firsthand people, do the thorough kind of thing that's been done before instead of this rush to judgment.

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HARLOW: What is the harm, Congresswoman, in slowing down?

MUCARSEL-POWELL: That's a great question. And I can tell you that when the inspector general presented the report to us to Congress, it was an urgent and credible threat. We don't have much time. That's why we've been moving very quickly. Because right now, we are under this national security threat that we're -- that this president is inviting foreign interference into our election system. And that is exactly what the Constitution intends when they included article of impeachment, that we cannot allow a president to allow that.

So it's a national security issue, I think, for all of us here, which is why we can't waste our time.

HARLOW: Finally, Congresswoman, the chairman of your committee, Jerry Nadler, has been through this back in 1998 during the Clinton impeachment. You know that he was a fierce defender of the president. And I just want to remind everyone of his own words about the threshold for impeachment back then. Here he was.

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REP. JERRY NADLER (D-NY): The last thing you want, it's almost illegitimate to have a party line impeachment. You shouldn't impeach a president unless there's a broad consensus to the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Are you concerned that the threshold he set then has not been met?

MUCARSEL-POWELL: Well, I think right now, that the country is divided, right, Poppy? I mean, we've seen that about half and half. Half of the people support impeachment. The other half don't. And I think it's important for all of us, including my Republican colleagues, to make sure that we tell the truth, to make sure that we present the facts, the evidence.

In the hearing this week, I asked the witnesses, there was a video of the president in front of the White House asking China, which is one of our major adversaries. We all know that China is an adversary to United States. He's asking china to investigate his political opponent from his own words in front of the White House.

So I think it's important for us to make sure that we are clear and present the evidence to the American people. I have faith that Americans know and recognize when there's a man who will do anything to hold on to his power and --

HARLOW: You're betting. You're saying then that you're betting that the American sentiment will change, that those numbers that didn't move at all from the public hearings are going to change?

MUCARSEL-POWELL: Well, I'm betting that my colleagues will protect the Constitution. They will put our democracy, the integrity of our elections first. And, unfortunately, what I've seen is that many of my Republican colleagues don't truly represent the Republican Party any longer. I know that many Republican constituents have come to me and said they feel abandoned. I think that right now, they're becoming the party of Trump. And I think history will determine who was on the right side of freedom, democracy, equality and the people of the United States.

HARLOW: Congresswoman Debbie Mucarsel-Powell, I appreciate your help, your time ahead of a busy weekend for you. And, again, we're just so sorry about the tragic shooting in your state. Thank you very much.

MUCARSEL-POWELL: Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: Jim?

SCIUTTO: Yes, and from a sitting congresswoman who lost her own father to gun violence.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Well, things are getting heated in Iowa. Former Vice President Joe Biden clashes with a voter during a town hall. How is this moment playing out in that key state? Of course, we got a big vote there coming up. We'll have a live report next.

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[10:25:00]

SCIUTTO: As House Democrats move forward towards impeachment, Republicans are gearing up for what we're told will be an aggressive defense of President Trump in a likely trial in the Senate.

With me now, former Republican Congressman, as well as former presidential candidate in this cycle, Mark Sanford. We appreciate you taking the time this morning.

MARK SANFORD (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My pleasure.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. If you were still a sitting member of Congress based on what you've seen and heard here, would you vote to impeach the president?

[10:30:00]

SANFORD: No. I've consistently said, I think it makes a lot more sense to take a vote of censure. At the end of the day -