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Interview with Mark Sanford; Joe Biden Campaigns in Iowa; Updates on Active Shooter in Pensacola, Florida. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 06, 2019 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MARK SANFORD (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I've consistently said I think it makes a lot more sense to take a vote of censure. At the end of the day, you know, an impeachment is a political process and I think, given how close we are to the election -- if you look at the last two impeachments, they occurred both at the beginning of second term of the presidency, not at the end of the first term.

I think it is a far wiser choice to say, look, we find things disturbing here, we don't like them, and I would certainly agree to that. But we trust the American public to get it right, and therefore you all decide in November. I think that's a far wiser course, and that's the course I would push for.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: Well, the Democrats' argument counter to that is that the president's behavior here relates directly to the upcoming election, that he was seeking a political favor against a possible rival in that election.

And we should note, his personal attorney was still in Ukraine just yesterday, meeting with pro-Russian politicians there, digging up -- attempting to dig up dirt on Biden. Does that argument hold, in your view, that impeachment is necessary because otherwise you OK behavior that could influence the election.

SANFORD: Well, but I mean, Giuliani's presence in the Ukraine is not going to be a part of the impeachment proceedings. I mean, we don't hear any of that. That's all getting ready for, quote, what might or might not happen on the Senate side.

So I think you go back to the basic issue, which is, right now, we have a country very much divided. When I talk to Democratic friends, they tell me, absolutely, this needs to move forward, he needs to go. And on the Republican side, they say, absolutely not, this is exactly what we thought was going to happen. He was elected to upset the apple cart, he was elected to upset the elites in Washington, D.C., and now they're coming after him. It plays completely into the conspiracy theory --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

SANFORD: -- that I think plays to his hand.

SCIUTTO: So how do you respond to that, right? I mean, if you're calling it a conspiracy theory, I presume you believe that that view doesn't have a basis. So what's the proper way to respond, in your view? Is it, just let it hang out there, in effect?

SANFORD: No. Again, a censure is not letting it hang out there. It's saying, based on the evidence that we have before us, we think that there's something disturbing, wrong and we want to take a vote that registers our indignation and our upset with what's transpired.

SCIUTTO: Right.

SANFORD: But at the same time, we don't want to usurp and throw out, in essence, the 2016 election, which is one of the Republican talking points. And therefore, we do trust the American public to get it right rather than taking us through a process that will very much continue to divide this country, very much play into the president's hands.

I mean, think about this. We've not seen a president actually impeached. We've seen them impeached in the House but acquitted on the Senate side. And what you don't want to do is to -- for -- allow the president to run ads, come next fall, that say, see? I did absolutely nothing wrong. The Democrats in the House had a hoax trial, they impeached me but the Senate knew what was going on, they went through the process, I was acquitted --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

SANFORD: -- I did nothing wrong. You do not want to lay that down. If you're a Democrat, you don't want to lay that down as a foundation, going forward, whether we're looking at a Republican or a Democratic president.

SCIUTTO: I get -- listen, I get the political argument there. But let's look at the facts for a moment. In 2016, the Trump campaign sought help, political dirt on their rival, Hillary Clinton, from Russia. You remember the Trump Tower meeting, you remember the president calling on Russia --

SANFORD: Sure.

SCIUTTO: -- to find Hillary Clinton's e-mails, you had a Mueller investigation. You now are in the midst of an impeachment inquiry. And today, the president's personal attorney, he's back in a foreign country -- and by the way, the people he's meeting with there are not, as you know, honest brokers in this. One of these is a pro-Russian politician, as David Gergen noted on our air, his father --

SANFORD: Sure.

SCIUTTO: -- was in the KGB. You know, that's the kind of information he's going to come back with. I just wonder if the bottom line is that, now, foreign help, regardless of where it's coming from, is the new normal in American politics, with an election 11 months away.

SANFORD: It can't be the new normal. I mean, our founding fathers -- I mean, they laid out a number of different careful prescriptions to make sure that we didn't have foreign influence. You can't have a foreign contribution. And when -- back when I was a member of the United States Congress, you couldn't take a foreign contribution.

So I get it, that it's wrong. But what you said at the beginning, the phrase of what you laid out was, I get where you're coming from politically, but let's go on to the substance. That's what we can't do with an impeachment. It is a political operation, it is a political movement.

And for all the talk -- and I mean, I suspended my presidential race because this was sucking all the oxygen out of the room on other issues that we might be discussing, chief among them for me would be debt, deficit and government spending and where we're going on that front. But what you can't say is, let's forget the political because this is political. It's consuming all the oxygen in the room.

[10:35:07]

And for all the talking that's been done on this subject, I mean, an intense amount of conversation across all the national airwaves, it has not moved the needle in terms of people's perceptions. So if you're a Democrat, you're very much for it. If you're a Republican, for the most part, you're very much against it.

And given that lock that we're at right now, and given the fact that the numbers haven't moved, it would therefore seem to me to be wise to say, OK, we therefore trust the American public to get it right.

SCIUTTO: Right.

SANFORD: We'll move a censure rather than impeachment.

SCIUTTO: I get your point. Of course, one of the -- another issue hasn't been talk about or action on, of course, is gun violence, and then we're experiencing today another instance of that in America. Mark Sanford, it is a pleasure to have you on the show this morning.

SANFORD: (INAUDIBLE). Thank you.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: All right. And to Jim's point about gun violence, again, another mass shooting in America on another morning. We will have an update from officials in Pensacola, Florida about the Naval Air Station shooting there in a moment. Stay right here for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:41]

SCIUTTO: Well, John Kerry is back on the campaign trail for president -- no, he's not running again himself, but he is joining up with someone who is: fellow former Obama cabinet member Joe Biden, in Iowa.

HARLOW: Yes. That show of support, coming hours after Biden's clash with an Iowa voter that many of you have seen. If you haven't, you will now. Our Jessica Dean was in the room, she's live this morning in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Quite the exchange, Jess.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good -- yes. Good morning to you guys. Yes, if you haven't seen it, we're going to show it to you. This happened in New Hampton yesterday. And what happened is, a voter stood up and -- and started asking and repeating some of these false conspiracy theories we've heard from President Trump and other Republicans. Here's some of that exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're selling access to the president just like he was. So you got...

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You're a damn liar, man. That's not true. And no one has ever said that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't say you were doing anything wrong. I said --

BIDEN: You said I set up my son to work in an oil company. Isn't that what you said? Get your words straight, Jack (ph).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: And interestingly, I talked to some people at a Biden event after that one. One woman was undecided. I asked her what she thought about that exchange, and she told me, look, I think Biden has to stand up for himself, that's what she said. And that was kind of how it was playing in the room last night. And you can hear, in some of the other clips, the audience kind of clapping for Biden and booing that man.

But certainly, an interesting exchange between voter and candidate here in Iowa, and definitely marking where we are in American politics right now for sure.

Something else, guys, that I want to tell you about is, we're about to start seeing a new ad from a super PAC supporting Vice President Biden here in Iowa. It's going to hit the airwaves soon. He's a look at that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The right to be educated, the right to marry who you choose, the right to live free from the threat of violence and fear, these --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: And there's your look at it, Jim and Poppy.

SCIUTTO: All right, stand by. We are getting an update from Pensacola, Florida on the shooting at the Naval Air Station there. Let's listen in.

TIMOTHY KINSELLA, CAPTAIN, NAS PENSACOLA: -- we got the call there was an active shooter in one of our buildings. The base is currently shut down. The active shooter has been neutralized. We are working with local law enforcement and with the FBI in our actions afterwards.

As I said, the base is shut down. It will be shut down until further notice, until we can really understand the situation. But the important thing is that the -- it is no longer an active shooter situation. We do have several deceased and several wounded. My heart goes out to those families of the deceased and of the wounded. They're part of the Navy family. They are our -- they're part of us. And our heart goes out to those of you who have -- who may be affected by this tragedy.

As I said, we're working with local county law enforcement and federal entities. And right now, I'd like to pass it over to the mayor, see if he has anything further to add -- Sir.

MAYOR GROVER ROBINSON, PENSACOLA, FLORIDA: Captain.

Certainly, this is a tragic day for the city of Pensacola. NAS is incredibly -- an important part of our community. For 200 years, this has been a part of the city of Pensacola. And our -- we're a military town. Our hearts and prayers are connected to all those that serve us every day, and certainly the expectation that this would happen here at home was unexpected.

But I can tell you that all of our sympathies are with the men and women who are out here on this base. And we are -- we are currently in a support role, we will continue to do that. We are certainly thinking about all those individuals who are still hospitalized and our thoughts and prayers are with them.

I will say, this is a resilient community, we will overcome this. But today, this is certainly a tragic day and our thoughts and prayers are with all of them.

Let me say, for those of you locally, if you have no business over on this part of Warrington, please do not come over here. Everything is closed down. We will continue to have our police officers with the sheriff's officers, keeping people from over here at this particular time. So if you don't have business over here, please do not come over to this side of town.

But, again, thank you very much for the opportunity to be here and just express how -- our condolences and our sorrows for those here at the Naval Air Station.

SHERIFF DAVID MORGAN, ESCAMBIA COUNTY, FLORIDA: Well, good morning, everyone. I'm Escambia County Sheriff David Morgan.

[10:45:01]

At approximately 6:51 this morning, the call went out to the Escambia County Sherriff's Office Central Dispatch, that there was an active shooter on Naval Air Station Pensacola. We had two units immediately respond, you know, many to come behind, of course.

While we would love to do a full disclosure with you this morning about everything that we are aware of, quite obviously, we cannot do that. There are things that we are now in the investigative process, that are required to be held back by not just the Escambia County Sheriff's Office, but our lead federal agencies, which of course are the FBI and the ATF and the associated federal partners that we have, and the U.S. attorney's offices also present.

As the mayor said, I want to assure our community that the -- the threat has been negated. Our community is secure at this time. We have no reason to believe or are (ph) we looking for any additional shooters within Escambia County, not just within the parameters of NAS Pensacola.

I will tell you, this strikes home particularly hard for me as a retired military member. Walking through the crime scene was like being on the set of a movie. And as the mayor eloquently put, you just don't expect this to happen at home. This doesn't happen in Escambia County, it doesn't happen in Pensacola. It doesn't happen to our friends and neighbors, who are members of the United States Navy. But it did, and it has.

And so for now, we're here to pick up the pieces. We have two officers at the Escambia County Sheriff's Office in the initial response that negated the threat that are now in a local hospital. We expect them to fully recover. It was a member of the Escambia County Sheriff's Office that did negate the threat, I will share that with you. It was one of our officers that did that.

As the captain said, we have -- to date -- excuse me. As of right now, we do have four deceased and approximately eight total -- that includes the ones that have deceased, by the way -- that are injured.

The crime scene processing continues under the auspices of the FBI and the ATF. We are lending all local assistance that we have to this effort, everything from command buses to, you know, crime scene techs if they are so needed.

We ask for the prayers of the community, and we ask for the assistance of the press. Please be patient. These things are ever-evolving. You may hear a misstatement from one of us at this juncture. Why? Because we've got a lot of moving parts in this machine, and we're all trying to get it in sync.

And so if something comes back later that we have to correct, I would ask that you not be overly critical. The reason why I say that is this. Is, we have grieving families at this moment that the Navy now, with their grief counselors and with ours at the Escambia County Sheriff's Office, are going out to handle the human side of a police action.

We need your assistance with that. We need your partnership at this point. And we have enough critics in our community, and we ask that you assist us. So if we reach out to you as a member of the press and ask for that assistance, I ask that you come forward with it.

At this juncture, I will stop and I believe Captain Kinsella wants to open it for questions? All right, we'll answer any questions that we can. KINSELLA: Before it opens for questions, I just want to say publicly

how grateful we are of the assistance from the Sheriff's department. As the Sheriff said, it was a couple of his deputies that neutralized the active shooter. It could have been a lot worse if we didn't have the response that we did from our local partners. So, sir, thank you. Thank you.

And, Mayor, thank you for your support and thank you to the county for your support also. This is a -- this is a community effort.

And so, any questions?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, was the shooter a military person? Can you say that?

KINSELLA: I don't want to talk about the identity of the shooter at this time, I'm sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we talk about where on the base it happened?

KINSELLA: Yes. It happened in one of our classroom buildings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which classroom?

KINSELLA: It was in -- I don't want to say at this time, because it's -- that -- there's a lot of worried folks out there that don't know if it was in -- where their people worked, and I don't want to unnecessarily worry folks at this time.

(CROSSTALK)

KINSELLA: So that will come out in time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How's the process of notifying the families right now?

KINSELLA: Again, I -- we're working through it, we're working through it. I appreciate the question, but we're working through it as best we can to make sure that the right people know at the right time. And we don't do it through the media, but thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do we know where the officers were shot or anything?

KINSELLA: We sure do, yes, we do. They were -- if you want to take that one, chief?

CHIP SIMMONS, CHIEF DEPUTY, ESCAMBIA COUNTY, FLORIDA SHERIFF'S OFFICE: Yes. The two deputies that initially engaged the suspect, one was shot in the arm and one was shot in the knee. The one that's shot in the arm is being treated at a local hospital, and the one that was shot in the knee is currently in surgery. Both expected to survive. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the response time from when the shots first rang out to, you know, when the deputies engaged -- KINSELLA: Sir, I think you should be able to answer that.

[10:50:00]

MORGAN: OK, Go ahead.

SIMMONS: Well, I can tell you we have a precinct nearby. We got the call, as Sheriff Morgan mentioned, about nine minutes before 7:00 and we had officers here within just a couple of minutes. They quickly went to the location, as the captain said, the building in which the active shooter was.

And it covered a couple of different floors, this is a rather large building. The deputies and those assisting agencies from the Pensacola Police Department, FHP, FTLE and all that you see around here, all worked in conjunction to neutralize the threat, and that's why there was not more loss of life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is your name, sir?

SIMMONS: Chip Simmons, CHIP, S-I-M-M-O-N-S. I'm the chief deputy from the Sheriff's Office.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How long was the engagement, the total time?

SIMMONS: Again, I don't have the exact numbers, but I can tell you that it did cover two floors from that one building.

As Sheriff mentioned, when you get into a scene like that, it is a bit like a movie because you have spent shell casings all over, but the first thing you want to do is make sure that the threat is no longer a threat. You neutralize that threat, and then secondarily what you want to do is, you present aid to the injured.

And that's why what we have is, we have eight individuals that were transported to a local hospital. One of those later succumbed to the injuries, and then we have three others that remain at the building and that is part of the active crime scene.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this being regarded as an act of terrorism?

KINSELLA: I don't even want to speculate on that at this time. I appreciate the question, but it's nothing we want to speculate right now. It's -- we're taking care of what we need to take care of, and --

MORGAN: I'll speak for law enforcement too. At this time, as the captain said, it's inappropriate to discuss that issue. And again, that would be more appropriately coming from our federal agencies. And when they're prepared to give you an update on the -- on the conduct of the investigation and those sorts of questions, they'll release that information.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sheriff, can we get a little clarification on the numbers here? You said there were a total of eight people affected by this?

MORGAN: Yes, that is correct.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many victims are deceased?

MORGAN: We have four deceased -- Chief? Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Including the shooter?

MORGAN: Yes.

SIMMONS: That is correct. There are four people right now, deceased. One is the shooter. And there are eight people currently at Baptist Hospital. One of them have deceased, and then there are three -- three remain at the crime scene.

MORGAN: So you have --

(CROSSTALK)

SIMMONS: So it was a total of 11 people, four of which have deceased. One of those four is the -- is the active shooter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And two deputies are included in the wounded?

SIMMONS: That's correct.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

SIMMONS (?): Go ahead, sir.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Now how about NAS Pensacola, the security exercises throughout the year? I understand they may be -- they train for these exact types of situations?

KINSELLA: Yes, you bet. We -- and we work with our local law enforcement partners to do that. We train on this regularly. Active shooter is something that's very in the front of our minds for our security department when they train. So yes, yes we do. We train pretty regularly for it.

MORGAN: We -- we have an MOA with NAS Pensacola, of course, where we do joint training. And also part of that MOA is that we are a response unit to assist NAS. And of course, that's what was put in place this morning.

KINSELLA: It was our security forces, they were the first responders there. And then the sheriff's department came and backed us up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you tell us what kind of weapon the shooter was using?

KINSELLA: I cannot, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell us about the -- you said it's a classroom, I believe? What building (ph)? KINSELLA: Well, this is a -- it's a training base, so almost all of

our buildings are classroom buildings. So it would be hard for something like this to happen and not be in that type of environment. But I don't want to say which building it was, due to the sensitivity, still, of releasing information.

MORGAN: And if I could, I'll expand on what the -- the reason why folks were reluctant to give some specifics, notification have not been completed. So if I or the captain speak any more specific and you're a mother or father that has a son or a daughter that's in the Navy and they're assigned to the Navy base and they're assigned to this particular training area, families know that.

And so now you're going to create, again, panic within these families. And that notification needs to be measured, it needs to come from us -- or the appropriate agency, I should say -- at that time. So we're not trying to be evasive. There's a point to that. It's for our families.

KINSELLA: Yes. Thanks for that, Sheriff.

And, sir, you had a --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was the shooting confined to that building or classroom?

MORGAN: That is correct.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you foresee this changing security protocol, going forward?

KINSELLA: I will say security is an ever-changing, ever-evolving. And while we look at lessons learned from this -- and if necessary we will, we're not an organization in stasis. We learn from events like this to ensure that we do it better. But I will say that I'm very, very proud of the response that my security department had, and I'm very proud of the sheriff's department, what they did. So it's -- I think it could have been a lot worse if we didn't -- if we don't train the way we do, to try and minimize casualties in events like this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I know you're not able to say that much about the shooter, but did he have business being on the base? Was he supposed to be there?

KINSELLA: Yes, I don't even want to -- I don't want to say. I'm sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How heavily armed was he? What was he armed with?

KINSELLA: I leave that to --

MORGAN: We're not -- again, we're not going to answer any of those specific questions. A press conference should be planned later on this afternoon. And I will also tell you, it's part of our protocol, stepping outside the Navy side of it.

[10:55:10]

We have a governor and elected officials that we need to also brief to ensure that they're aware of what occurred at NAS Pensacola, so there's -- again, there's a lot of moving parts in this machine, that you will get the information. It's just you won't get all that information right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Captain, how -- and speaking to (ph) the (ph) governor and maybe even other federal officials up to president, have you heard from any of them?

KINSELLA: I sure have. I've heard from multiple officials who have called to -- both the governmental, state and local, to offer their support in any way they can. It's been very comforting to have all levels of government reaching out to us to offer both comfort and support.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of support's going to be given to the victims and their families?

KINSELLA: We have procedures in place. We have things that we do to ensure that it is -- and again, I don't want to get too far into that. But we have procedures in place. We -- we are the military. We go through this, unfortunately, more often than we'd like for combat casualties or whatever it may be.

So our casualty assistance officers will be following the necessary protocols to ensure that we take care of those people within our Navy family and beyond.

MORGAN: Look, the mayor can update that question too.

ROBINSON: I do wish to say that the Governor's Office and the White House have contacted us, the city of Pensacola. I know they've contacted Escambia County as well, and said any assets that they have would be available to us.

At this particular time, I think that we are -- we told them we're all assessing, we're supporting and we will -- we will inform them as soon as we know what those requests would be. But they haven't been in touch with us. And I know I talked with Commissioner Bender, he said they've also been in touch with Escambia County as well.

MORGAN: Yes, I've received two calls from Senator Scott's office this morning. So I -- you know, trust me, the -- you know, the relationship runs deep here. And I would -- this is one of those times, anything we need, we're going to get. So.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For families who are split up right now -- there was a mother who had a three-month-old who's on the base, who was trying to get -- what information do you have for when people will be allowed back on-base?

MORGAN: Again, the base is secure, the number of people that have been injured, transported, have been reported to the community now, not names specifically. But I would assure everyone that if you had a family member that's directly involved with this, that is local, you're going to be notified very quickly.

And again, I want -- that's why we want to allay most of those fears. Those, again, who have suffered, you know, the deceased, if you will, and the victims, that will take a little bit longer. But I'd let Captain Kinsella speak specifically to --

(CROSSTALK)

KINSELLA: Thanks for asking that question. As I mentioned, the base is -- excuse me -- the base is shut down for -- until further notice. Sorry.

The personnel that are on-base now, we're working at getting them off- base in an orderly manner. They are going to stay in place or remain in place until we can get them off the base in an orderly and safe manner, and we will be notifying those people building by building, using the appropriate chain of command to ensure that we have an orderly evacuation of the base so that those personnel that we need to get off, need to get home to their loved ones.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, your two deputies who were hurt, were they shot?

MORGAN: That is correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. By the active shooter?

MORGAN: We're not prepared to release that information at this time. Shots were exchanged.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About how long will the museum on base be closed?

KINSELLA: Until further notice. Yes, I can't say. OK?

I think that'll wrap it up, anything else?

SIMMONS: I think that -- I think in relation to a question you asked about the deputies being shot. As horrendous as this event has been, and as much as our thoughts and prayers goes out to those victims, I think that it's also important to note the heroism that took place this morning, and that was from the Navy police, the DOD police, the Escambia County sheriff's deputies, again, two of which got shot doing this response.

But also our partners with the Florida Highway Patrol, the Pensacola Police Department, obviously our state and federal partners.

So again, I don't want to lose sight of the fact that they got here in short order, they neutralized the threat. And again, as I mentioned before, so that there's no further loss of life. So let's just keep that in the back of our mind, as well as the thoughts that -- to those that are injured, and certainly to the family of those who lost their lives this morning.

KINSELLA: (INAUDIBLE). UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was also a mother back there who has a three-month-old still on the base that she was trying to get to.

MORGAN: Yes, he just asked that question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had a three-month-old she was trying to get to.

KINSELLA: We'll -- I can talk to you after this and we will take care of that. Yes.

MORGAN: Any other questions? All right. Thank you all very much.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR, AT THIS HOUR: All right. Hello, everyone, I'm Kate Bolduan. Thank you so much for joining me. We've just been watching this press conference that's been playing out in Pensacola, Florida. And we are following the breaking news out of Florida, where the U.S. Navy is dealing with a second on-base shooting in three days, including one just this morning at the Naval Air Station in Pensacola.

[11:00:02]

Three people killed, several others were injured. The shooter is dead as well, according to, as we just learned -