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Shooting at Pensacola Naval Air Station; House Moves Closer to Impeachment Vote, GOP Prepares for Senate Trial; Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired December 06, 2019 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

MAYOR GROVER ROBINSON (R-PENSACOLA, FL): ...and we appreciate all of your thoughts and prayers. Please continue to keep thinking about Pensacola, and the people there and we will bounce back from this. Thank you.

GOV RON DESANTIS (R-FL): I think we have time myself or some of the others if there's any questions.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Governor as a former member of the Navy Jag Corps former officer who served in the Middle East. How do you expect this investigation of play out?

DESANTIS: Well, I think that I think the FBI is probably going to brief you guys in due time and I think they're leading for it. But obviously when you have a foreign national involved, you know, particularly in that part of the world, the investigation is obviously going to be different than if it were just somebody from a local community, and and I think you'll see that as things go on.

REPORTER: Governor or Captain Kinsella, can you maybe help people understand the background nature of what this training program is, and why someone from Saudi Arabia was training there?

DESANTIS: Yeah, I'll let the captain if he wants to weigh in on that.

CAPT TIM KINSELLA, COMMANDING OFFICER, NAVAL AIR STATION PENSACOLA: We have a international training service. We have students from several different countries that come here. They learn aviation. They become Naval aviators while they're here. It's something that we've been doing for quite a while and it's with our partner nations, it's important that the cross pollination cross training that we do with our allies is something that's that we don't for a long time. I mean World War II, we had Royal Air Force folks there were training here. There's always been International students training. Because it's a good place to trade was a good quality training.

REPORTER: So how many students do you have, international students?

KINSELLA: I can't speak to the exact number of international students.

REPORTER: Roughly?

KINSELLA: A couple hundred second.

REPORTER: What was he trained to do, sir?

KINSELLA: Say again?

REPORTER: What was he training to do?

KINSELLA: He was used in the aviation pipeline. So we'll just say he was he was training in aviation.

REPORTER: At the time of the shooting, was the suspect a member of the Saudi Arabian Air Force?

KINSELLA: I don't want to get into that. That's up to the FBI to complete their investigation to see exactly. It would be speculation on my part to say if he was.

REPORTER: How far was he in the pipeline?

KINSELLA: I'm not going to speak to where he was in the pipeline or his exact training right now. I'll leave that.

REPORTER: Was he authorized to have a gun on base?

KINSELLA: Weapons are not authorized on base. You can't bring a weapon on base unless you're part of the security forces.

REPORTER: Sir, can you talk a bit about the security measures? I think that is one of the biggest questions. What type of measure are in place to keep something like this from happening?

KINSELLA: That's something that's difficult for me to speak here because our security measures. Well there, we keep them to ourselves for a reason. If I talk to you about our security measures, but I will say that we practice for this. This is part of our training our master-at-arms and our civilian DoD along with Escambia County and sheriff's department and with Pensacola Police Department. We trained to active shooter scenarios regularly, we just did one recently. So this is- we never expect it, but we train for it and we remain ever vigilant for it.

REPORTER: Do you expect there is going to be more changes to the security?

KINSELLA: I'm not going to speculate.

REPORTER: How are you confident that he was acting alone?

KINSELLA: I'm not going to speculate on the particulars of the investigation, or exactly what happened. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thank you everybody

REPORTER: Sheriff Morgan, I want to talk about the heroism of your deputies. How, you know, their training prepared them and the quality of their character. They rushed in when a lot of people would not do so and risked their lives for that. I thought you'd like a chance to talk about that.

SHERIFF DAVID MORGAN, ESCAMBIA COUNTY, FL: I appreciate that. We've been to the hospital, of course, to see the officers and their families, and to kind of reinforce what Captain Kinsella just said. We do active shooter training. It's both on site training and also computer simulations that we trained with the dod police and the master-at-arms program in the Navy and so this was an actual example of where all that training comes into being.

How do we react to this? And how do we coordinate and communicate with each other? And unfortunately that training was put to the test today. I'll tell you it's hard to speak to that without tearing up. I could not be prouder of the men and women of the Escambia County Sheriff's Office. They ran to the fight not from the fight. And even though they knew there was an active shooter. And again the chances of putting your life in danger are great. Guess where they went. They went inside. So let me tell you the best of our community was on scene today, and that's why I turned out the way it did.

REPORTER: Sheriff, as time has gone by you've learned more about what happened. Can you walk us through what happened today, please?

MORGAN: Well, just very briefly. You know, we have a precinct not too far off the base, you know, thank God the call came in we had officers that were available. It was about a three to five minute response. The call came in at 10 minutes to 7:00 this morning. I won't get into a lot of specifics on that because of the FBI investigation and here's let me explain why we don't do that folks.

There's a whole lot of witnesses out there that are listening to these programs that are on social media texting each other. The worst thing, in law enforcement, that can happen to you is for me to get a second third and fourth and story from an eyewitness. From someone who was there who has a clear understanding of what occurred this morning, but now they're reading all the texts that they've sent people and people have sent back to them and what they see on the television tonight. And so that memory which is very distinct right now becomes clouded and now we begun to tell a blended story wasn't really what I observed, it's what you observed and I observed and now we shared it with 10 other people.

So we want to be very careful with that and that's why I really think, as Captain Kinsella has told you unfortunately many times, we don't want to get into that because if you were a witness, I would want to know where you were at in the building. What time you were there. When did you hear the first shot? You know, what did you do with your actions there? Did you ever get eyes on the shooter? Et cetera. Did you help evacuate the building? Those are things that are critical for developing timelines even to the point of angles of trajectory where students are running from.

REPORTER: I appreciate that, I was just wondering if there's been some facts that have already been established, that we-

MORGAN: The facts have been established that we have unfortunately now four dead, eight injured. REPORTER: What type of weapon?

MORGAN: It was a handgun.

REPORTER: Are you able to address whether or not the shooter's room was raided?

MORGAN: I will not.

REPORTER: Was his name Muhammed Al-Sharami?

MORGAN: I will not confirm that. And folks, I know the answers to your questions. I'm not answering it or confirming it, not because I'm attempting to be trite. It's because I'm not the cognizant authority for this investigation. What that means is the FBI the ATF and NCIS on base are the lead agencies on this. We are a support element. And so while I have the answer to your questions, I'm not at liberty to answer them.

REPORTER: Can you clarify the numbers, please? I'm a little confused, I think this morning-

MORGAN: We now have an additional person. Yes, yes.

JASON BORTZ: Hey folks, I'm Jason Bortz the public relations officer for the air station. We're going to stop the press conference right now. More information will come out later, we will be sure to share those with everybody. Thank you very much for your time.

MORGAN: Thank you.

[14:06:35]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, so we'll jump out. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN. Let me just bring you up to speed as far as what has happened today in Pensacola, Florida. This is the breaking story about this deadly shooting on a US Naval Base. This is the second one this week this happening at the Naval Air Station Pensacola.

You just heard the numbers there from the sheriff four now, four dead, eight injured. Officials say the lone gunman was a member of the Saudi military who was training at the facility, he specified that he was training in aviation. He shot 11 people including two sheriff's deputies who are at the hospital, they are expected to survive.

Barbara Starr is all over this. She's our CNN Pentagon correspondent. So Barbara, let's just begin with you on who this individual is- who the shooter was. We learned he was a member of the Saudi military. What else do you know?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's fair to say that law enforcement does know who he is, but they are not saying that name yet, and obviously because they know who every the Navy knows who every military student is at the Naval Air Station Pensacola. The person was there to have aviation training which is a very typical

activity foreign students have been coming to Pensacola for decades for Naval training. So now they are going to be looking at this person, what their contacts were, did anybody else on the base notice anything about his behavior, his social media contacts who he might have been talking to. All of that is going to be looked at, even as they try and still determine, Brooke, a motive.

One, our David Shortell has been told that they are looking at the possibility that, we want to emphasize possibility, it could be terrorism, but nobody really knows yet. It's really way too soon in the investigation. So FBI very much taking the lead, the Navy telling them everything they know. The sheriff, the local sheriff there, going his own way a little bit at one moment, saying that the public will be told what it needs to know. I think you can count on the news media trying to explore what has happened here.

There have been so, you know not just mass shootings across the country, but we saw one at Pearl Harbor earlier this week. We've seen the number at military installations, and the Navy Captain there made the point that personal weapons, the shooter by the way, they said used to handgun, weapons are not allowed aboard the Pensacola Naval Air Station. You are not allowed to bring your personal weapons on board. The only people that have weapons are military security forces, so it will also be a question how this Saudi got a handgun, how it came into his possession, whether it was legally purchased, given to him, how he got it and how he brought it into a classroom.

BALDWIN: Here's another for you because the one of the officials was saying, you know, yes, we get these international military students. Can you just give the viewers an idea, Barbara, of how these training programs work with foreign nationals? And what's the background check system for them?

STARR: Well, look. It is foreign military personnel that come into the United States for military training, like others they go through a series of checks, obviously, for any connections to terrorism or illicit activities. There might be any number of things that would red flag them not being admitted into the United States, but, I mean, I think it's important to say hundreds, if not thousands, of foreign military students have come to the United States very honorably, had their training and returned to their military forces in their home countries.

And it's a really important program because the US wants well-trained military personnel around the world, and they want to offer this training when and where they can. For example, there's a very long tradition of the US trying to train foreign military personnel in human rights and the laws of war so they go back to their countries and conduct themselves in their military forces in a manner commensurate with what the US would want to see. Aviation is very interesting. For decades now, foreign military personnel have been coming to the United States. In-flight training is very significant because the US has a number of very- US military large widespread training ranges across the United States that pilots from other countries. They may not have access to that kind of wide geographic area that

they can conduct realistic in-flight in the air training. It always starts, of course with classroom training. That's what that's what goes on at Pensacola. But this is a very well understood well known program and so it really does go to the question of what was the motivation? Behind this really terrible attack, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Right. Still too early to say, as you point out. Barbara Starr, thank you so much. We're going to continue our special coverage here of this shooting at the Naval Air Station Pensacola in Florida. Again, the numbers four dead now, eight injured. Special coverage continues right after this.

[14:11:45]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:16:34]

BALDWIN: Welcome back, I'm Brooke Baldwin, back to our breaking news. Officials say a member of the Saudi military, who was training at the Naval Air Station down in Pensacola Florida, was the shooter responsible for this deadly attack this morning that killed at least three people and hurt many more. With me now, Jonathan Wackrow, he's a CNN Law Enforcement Analyst, and a former Secret Service agent in the Obama Administration. So Jonathan, let's just start with as Barbara pointed out motive is still unknown, right? This is still in the in the early going. How do they figure out if it was a criminal act or it was an act of Terror?

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, that's what the FBI is doing right this moment, they have to see was this an act- this targeted act of violence, was it criminal in nature or an act of terror? How did they get there? What they are going to do is it's a challenge right now.

The suspect is dead. We can't interview him. So beyond that we look at who was he training with? Was he with other members of his of his unit? They're going to interview all of them. They're going to look at other people who are part of the training program everyone that this Newell you had connection to both on the base and off the base. They're going to look at all of this communication. They're going to have to see it.

Was there some sort of ideology that he was trying to follow? And this is this it's critical right now broken. We said this just a couple moments ago because if it is an act of Terror and this person is on a base. Is this something that is going to happen at other bases right now. So the FBI has to look at this quickly to get the warning out that you know, are we under attack? Is this just a phase one attack are there more to follow? So, you know timing is critical.

BALDWIN: And then also I imagine they're running down the handgun, right? Because you're not supposed to have weapons on this particular Naval base, and the fact that this person had a handgun, according to the sheriff. Did he get it legally? Did he get it illegally? Right? They're looking into that.

WACKROW: Exactly. So that just says that this person didn't act alone, you know, even though the act itself was by himself, you know, were there are other people who had supported him? Whoever gave him that weapon, whether it was purchased you legally or he stole it, we need to know that. That means that, you know, is this part of a larger group? Again, what law enforcement is doing right this second is they're looking at all of these things. They're trying to find all of the data that they can collect to make that assessment, whether it's criminal or is this an act of terror, and its timing is tough for them right now.

BALDWIN: Is of the essence

WACKROW: Of the essence.

BALDWIN: Jonathan Wackrow, thank you very much.

WACKROW: Thank you

BALDWIN: Much more on this ahead. Also, time is running out for President Trump. The White House has just hours to decide whether or not they will participate in this house impeachment inquiry. Will the president's team take part? Also, new details on Rudy Giuliani's global conspiracy theory tour. What he's telling CNN about his latest trip to Ukraine and how the Russians may have listened in on conversations with the White House. We'll be right back.

[14:19:26]

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[14:24:11]

BALDWIN: Today President Trump and his White House have a decision to make, and it's a big one. Whether or not they will participate in the House Judiciary Impeachment Inquiry. The deadline for that very decision is now just a couple of hours away, as Democrats are expected to work through this weekend deciding what those articles of impeachment will look like.

And while we still don't know the specifics here, potential charges could include abuse of power, bribery, obstruction of congress, and obstruction of justice. So let's go to our Senior White House Correspondent, Pamela Brown, with more. So Pamela, do we have any sense whatsoever as to which way the White House will go on this?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well at this point, Brooke, all indications are that the White House will be responding to Jerry Nadler's letter by the deadline of 5pm today, and likely will not be participating in this next hearing that is expected to happen on Monday, with four lawyers from two different committees.

So, that is the expectation. As of now we're being told there are no big surprises in this, and there is no indication, Brooke, that Jerry Nadler has reached out to the White House directly to answer some of those questions that the White House had put in the previous letter from Sunday night, when it said they wouldn't be participating in that first hearing.

The White House had asked for information like which specific rights the President would have, and his legal team, which witnesses, and so forth. Now it is true that Jerry Nadler had put out that press release yesterday outlining some of the basics for this upcoming hearing on Monday, but here at the White House the view seems to be that it is not satisfied with the response so far from Jerry Nadler. But at the same time, Brooke, this also comes down to the fact that the White House doesn't want to legitimize this process by participating.

As you know, it's continually called the impeachment probe and the House a sham, baseless, partisan, and so the concern is that if it did participate and accept this invitation from Jerry Nadler that it would legitimize it. Of course, the Democrats say this a legitimate inquiry, this has to do with the Constitution. Democrats believe that the President abused the poser of his office.

But the White House is very much looking ahead to the Senate trial, Brooke, where it believes it can more effectively make it's case in a friendlier venue with a Republican majority. It believes it'll score more political points and be able to distract from the central allegations surrounding the President. I do also want to note here, Brooke, that the President just recently tweeted about something else that's happening today, and of course that is the shooting at that base in Pensacola where the suspect is believed to be a Saudi national who was there for Saudi military training.

The President, as you see here on the screen, Brooke, tweeted that, "King Salman of Saudi Arabia just called to express his sincere condolences and give his sympathies to the families and friends of the warriors who were killed and wounded in the attack that took place in Pensacola, Florida. Brooke?

BALDWIN: Alright Pamela, thank you. Back to what's happening there in Washington, and just a reminder, the full House vote on impeachment is only the first step, then, of course, there is the Senate trial. And while the republican-led chamber is expected to vigorously defend the president, how will they do that is still up for debate. At least one top Republican, John Cornyn of Texas, is pushing back on a White House suggestion that live witnesses be part of the process, saying that it could turn the impeachment trial into, in Cornyn's words, a "three- ring circus."

Let's discuss all of this Melanie Zanona is a congressional reporter for Politico, and Stephen Griffin is a professor of constitutional law at Tulane University. So welcome to both of you, and Melanie let's start on the Senate side.

So Senate Republicans, they don't just have to manage expectations for the Trump Administration. There's also their counterparts in the House and your latest piece, that the headline is "Senate Republicans Puncture House Republican Dreams for Impeachment Trial" and you write, in part, that "House Republicans recognize that some of their Senate colleagues might not be comfortable with the kind of scorched-earth defense tactics that they practice in the lower chamber." So what are some of those house tactics or demands that have these, you know, some of these Senators saying "we're not going there".

MELANIE ZANONA, POLITICO REPORTER: Yeah. Well Trump and his allies have been calling the following witnesses that they think will be friendly to them or it can help build their case and they want to haul in Adam Schiff.

They want to bring in Hunter Biden. They want to bring Joe Biden. They want to bring in The Whistleblower. But reality check for them, that's not going to happen in the Senate because GOP leaders don't want this to turn into a circus. Mitch McConnell is defending a very tough map in 2020, these vulnerable members don't want this to look like a spectacle.

They need a very thoughtful and serious proceeding before they cast this historic vote. And the other reality here is that even if they wanted to follow the hardline tactics of the House, they probably don't have the votes to do that because they can only lose three Republican Senators for anything they want to do so, it's going to be very tough for them to fulfill this Trump wish list of witnesses.

BALDWIN: Now, and the Steven this is directed to you. Let's, again this is all in hypothetical world, let's say Senate Republicans do decide to call the Bidens as witnesses. Walk us through what would have to happen for the former vice president and his son to actually show up and testify.

STEPHEN GRIFFIN, PROFESSOR OF CONSTITUTIONAL LAW, TULANE UNIVERSITY: Well, I assume that they would show up to testify, that they would comply with any subpoena, but I think the thing that House Republicans might be overlooking is that that gives or should give the house managers the equal right to call their own witnesses and, after all, the House Intelligence Committee report had a list of 12 witnesses that the Democrats still want to hear from and I assumed they would be perfectly happy to call those in the Senate and I think Republicans have to think about that if they want to get into calling witnesses.

[14:29:52]

BALDWIN: Again, that's looking ahead to the to the trial in the Senate. What about now?