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Saudi National Opens Fire at Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Florida; American Freed from Iranian Captivity in Prisoner Exchange; Analysts Examine Possible Political Effect of Senate Impeachment Trial; Joe Biden Campaigns in Iowa; President Trump Criticizes Environmental Concerns for Water Inefficiency. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired December 07, 2019 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:19]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. It's Saturday, December 7th. I'm Victor Blackwell.

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Amara Walker. You're in the CNN Newsroom.

BLACKWELL: We're starting this morning in Florida. We're learning new details about the suspect in that shooting at Naval Air Station Pensacola. In an exclusive interview with CNN, his uncle says there was nothing that showed any signs that he would carry out such an act.

WALKER: Investigators are looking into whether or not there is a link to terrorism. Three people were killed and several others were injured. CNN's Natasha Chen has been following this story from Pensacola. Natasha, what's the latest?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Amara, we still don't have many confirmed details about the shooter. As of last night, the FBI did not want to get into the investigation details, but said that we could expect more to be released about him today. As you mentioned, the shooter's uncle spoke to CNN saying that there was nothing to indicate that his nephew might carry out this attack. He said his nephew is 21 years old, described him as likeable and exceptionally smart. He did also say to CNN that Saudi Arabia needs to get to the truth of this, and that if his nephew is guilty, he will be accountable before God.

Now, a couple of law enforcement sources did tell CNN that this is Saudi national Mohammed Alshamrani and that authorities did say that he used a handgun in this incident. He was killed by a couple of deputies who exchanged gunfire with him. Those deputies were injured themselves but are expected to be OK. They are among the eight people wounded in this situation being treated right now at Baptist Health Care. That's in addition to three others who were killed.

Now, the FBI wants to follow protocol in not releasing names or information about the victims until after 24 hours after next of kin have been notified. President Trump also spoke with King Salman of Saudi Arabia about

this. The king offered his sincere condolences to President Trump and the United States. He said he would order his security services to cooperate with U.S. investigators in this case. Here is what President Trump said about their phone call.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The king said that the Saudi people are greatly angered by the barbaric actions of the shooter, and that this person in no way, shape, or form represents the feelings of the Saudi people who love the American people so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN: This community is definitely shaken by what's happened, as you can imagine. It's very tightknit, a lot of families on base. The families are now allowed back home on base, and essential military personnel allowed back on base as well, but otherwise closed to the public. A tree lighting ceremony that was supposed to happen in an officers' club on base today, that has been cancelled. There has been an announcement about counseling services available to the community. So definitely this is something that people will be dealing with for a long time as they await more information. Amara and Victor, back to you.

BLACKWELL: Natasha Chen for us there in Pensacola, thank you.

WALKER: Let's break it all down with CNN counterterrorism analyst Phil Mudd. Good morning to you, Phil.

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Good morning.

WALKER: Can you take us behind the scenes of this investigation as much as you can. What are investigators doing right now to try to figure out whether or not this was terror-related, and how difficult or not is it to figure that out?

MUDD: That is difficult if you're dealing with somebody who didn't have co-conspirators. As soon as you add a co-conspirator, that is someone beyond a sole operator, you increase the likelihood that perhaps, for example, there were email or text exchanges you can get to. But if you look at what you have to do to determine motive in this case right now, there's the digital piece. I want to know everything from what YouTube videos the person watched, what they ordered off Amazon, what they searched on Google, who they emailed, who they texted.

But then there a more complicated piece. The interviews in Pensacola among, for example, the unit, if he has family or friends there are one piece, but you've got to go over to Saudi Arabia and interview family and friends there along with a unit. That's one of the reasons why the FBI is slow to come out with this. That's a lot of work to do in less than 24 hours.

BLACKWELL: Talk about, if you would, the obvious security challenge that happened here. We are expecting that these people would not have weapons on the base, but obviously he had one, and the review that must be happening right now.

MUDD: Sure. I think we need a reality check here, victor. I'm sure there are a lot of people across the country saying we can't let this happen across America. You ought to Google the number of foreign students in this country. There's tens of thousands of Saudis alone. In the case of foreign military sales, that is, sales to militaries overseas and the training of foreign military personnel in this country, you're talking about thousands of people. So if you want to take that risk, in every case you can look at things like whether the person has a criminal record overseas, whether there's any indication of things like drug use.

[10:05:06]

You want to look at their online activity, what's their email address, is that person communicating with a known terrorist. But if you're talking about multiplying that kind of risk to tens of thousands of people, the chance that one of them is going to be a bad apple is pretty high. This is risk mitigation. Eventually somebody is going to do what we saw yesterday in Pensacola.

WALKER: So quickly, do you agree or not agree with some of the Florida officials who we heard from yesterday who were calling for more scrutiny when it comes to this training program at the Department of Defense of Foreign Nationals?

MUDD: I don't agree. I think that that's an easy answer from people who don't realize that if we want to spend time training people after we sell billions of dollars of military material overseas, if we want to spend time training them, there's only so much you can do if you're dealing with thousands of people a year.

BLACKWELL: Phil, from, I guess, an investigative standpoint, I was covering this as it happened yesterday, and there was the first news conference in which local officials would say nothing about the suspected shooter. And in a short period of time, just about an hour or so, Governor DeSantis came out and confirmed that this was a Saudi member of the Air Force there. Do you expect that that is what local officials wanted to happen? They wouldn't say anything and then they gave us this detail.

MUDD: I don't think it's a big deal revealing who the identity of the individual. If you start to get into things like motivation, I think that's a problem. As soon as you go on the record saying, for example, I think it's a criminal act, I think it's a terrorism act, I think it's an act of someone who's mentally unstable, you're stuck with it. If you're in the federal system and you're talking to the media within an hour or two, you don't want to put anything on the table until you can confirm what you've got. And confirming what you've got, especially if you have a single shooter, is really difficult. That's getting in the mind of somebody by looking at things like their digital media. That takes a while.

WALKER: Phil Mudd, we're going to have to leave it there, but appreciate your expertise as always.

MUDD: Thank you.

WALKER: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Breaking news this morning. Just learned that the freed American graduate student has arrived at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany. He's been held captive in Iran for the past three years.

WALKER: The U.S. embassy in Switzerland tweeted out this image today, and it shows the ambassador presenting him with an American flag as he arrived in Zurich, Switzerland. Let's go now to CNN national correspondent Kristen Holmes at the White House. So Kristen, why stop in Germany before coming back to the U.S.?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Amara. This is fairly routine in situations like this. And in fact, this army base that's run by the U.S. army is a place that is frequently stopped at by prisoners or Americans who have been released and are heading back to America because they need to get a medical evaluation. And in fact, that is what we are hearing is happening right now with Xiyue Wang. He, as you said, was a Princeton University Ph.D. student who was in Tehran studying history when he was arrested on suspicion of espionage. He has been there for three years now. And of course, you showed that picture.

And one thing I want to note here, it wasn't just him. He was released. Also, America seems to have had a prison swap. We have not -- prisoner swap. We have not been able to confirm this with the State Department, with the White House, but here in Zurich we see pictures of both Xiyue Wang being hugged by the U.S. ambassador to Bern, which is in Switzerland, as well as the foreign minister of Iran who says that this was a prisoner swap and they in return got a stem cell scientist who had been arrested in the United States back in 2018.

Again, we have reached out to the White House on this. We have not heard back. The statement from the president simply said that he was being released from Iran, nothing about the fact that this might be some kind of exchange.

But big takeaway here is the fact that this man, who has been gone for three years, is now coming home to his family. I want to read to you a statement from his wife, because it's very moving. It says "Our family is complete once again. Our son Shaofan and I have waited three long years for this day, and it's hard to express in words how excited we are to be reunited with Xiyue. And we are thankful to everyone who made it happen."

And a couple of things to note here. First of all, there are still other prisoners in Iran, but this was -- many people were very skeptical as to whether or not this prisoner exchange or this release of prisoners in Iran would happen because the tensions right now between Iran and the U.S. are so incredibly high given those severe economic sanctions that we've placed on them as the United States tries to get them to abandon their nuclear program. So it will be interesting to see if this exchange softens the rhetoric in any way.

BLACKWELL: Kristen Holmes for us at the White House. Thank you, Kristen.

WALKER: Iran has just shared this picture of the scientist released from U.S. custody meeting with the country's foreign minister.

[10:10:02]

Masoud Soleimani is an Iranian stem cell scientist who was arrested in Chicago last year. And according to Iran's foreign minister, his release was part of a prisoner swap with the U.S. government, and the U.S. government is still yet to confirm that.

BLACKWELL: Earlier today CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger had a warning about this possible prisoner swap. He said that we should not jump to conclusions that this means better relations with Iran.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: It is a bit of an unusual case, and particularly interesting to note that the White House announcement both from Secretary Pompeo and then the one from President Trump mentioned the release of Xiyue Wang and did not mention the prisoner swap. So they didn't talk at all about the fact that the United States reciprocated with the case of a researcher who, as you heard, was working on stem cell areas who was arrested I think at an airport last year. And the Iranian position through all of this, as we've heard it from the Iranian foreign minister when he's been in New York, has been whenever these releases are going to happen, it's got to be on an equivalent basis.

So this may be part of an effort by President Trump and others to show that he's willing to do a little bit of give as well. Remember that they tried to set up a conversation with President Rouhani when he was at the U.N. in September and that failed. But I'm not sure I'd overread the fact that this particular swap happened to say that we would be on our way to a better relationship.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Wang was conducting research in Tehran when he was arrested on espionage charges, that was in August of 2016. He faced a 10-year jail sentence.

WALKER: Still ahead, Democrats grapple with what to include in the articles of impeachment and where to draw the line with at-risk Democrats.

BLACKWELL: Plus, former Vice President Joe Biden's roadshow ends after a big endorsement and a bigger blow-up at an Iowa voter.

WALKER: And the president holds court on water efficiency standards and on all manner of bathroom fixtures.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They take a shower and water comes dripping out. It's dripping out, very quietly dripping out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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WALKER: Welcome back, everyone. The White House will not participate in the upcoming impeachment hearings in the House. In fact, they have rejected an offer from Democrats to present any type of defense for President Trump during the Judiciary hearings this week.

BLACKWELL: In a strongly worded letter, the White House counsel called the proceedings baseless and a charade, went on to say "Adopting articles of impeachment would be a reckless abuse of power by House Democrats and would constitute the most unjust, highly partisan, and unconstitutional attempt at impeachment in our nation's history."

WALKER: Meantime, Democrats are staying in Washington this weekend. Sources say they are holding a mock hearing to prepare for what's to come next week. Joining me now is Laura Barron-Lopez, the national political reporter for "Politico," and CNN presidential historian Jeffrey Engel. He's written several books on American foreign policy and the American presidency, including "Impeachment an American History." Welcome to you both, good morning.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "POLITICO": Good morning.

JEFFREY ENGEL, CO-AUTHOR, "IMPEACHMENT, AN AMERICAN HISTORY": Good morning.

WALKER: Jeffrey, let's start with you. We're getting reporting that some Democrats, many of them in competitive districts, are starting to feel a bit uneasy about the impeachment vote. Just obviously you know a thing or two about the past two impeachments that the U.S. presidents have gone through in the past. How valid or not is the concern that this impeachment process could backfire on the Democrats, especially when it comes to 2020?

ENGEL: Oh, I think history suggests there's no doubt about it. We have to look back to the Clinton case, for example, in 1998 when Republicans impeached President Clinton and expected because of that to really go forth and have a landslide Republican victory in the midterm elections. Turns out the American people thought otherwise and actually returned a six-vote deficit to the Republicans, which really led to Newt Gingrich's ouster Ss speaker of the House. So there's a real sense in which the votes that people are casting now are in fact going to be votes that people when American voters go to the polls, that they are going to remember.

WALKER: But the Republicans who impeached Clinton in 2000, they got George W. Bush.

ENGEL: They did. So there's a really interesting -- you have to ask what is the longtime frame you want to look at. So in 74 Nixon was impeached and of course soon thereafter -- excuse me, Nixon resigned, and soon thereafter Democrats won with Jimmy Carter in 76, really with a backlash election against Republicans. But then they won the next several elections going forward, Republicans, with Ronald Reagan two terms then George W. Bush with one term. So Republicans and Democrats may want to look and ask themselves do we care about the next election or perhaps do we care about the next generation of elections, because this is going to frame the identity for each political party for years to come.

WALKER: Yes. Obviously, the difference is the time here, right. And with President Trump's almost but certain impeachment trial, that's going to happen right before a general election.

Laura, to you. We know that, as we've been watching these impeachment proceedings, have really united the Republicans rallying around President Trump. But when it comes to the impact on independents and voters in these battleground states, are we seeing it move the needle in any way?

BARRON-LOPEZ: The Ukraine investigation and the revelations that came from that certainly moved the needle in the last few months. Since the hearings have started, has it moved beyond 50 percent of Americans that say they think the president should be impeached? No, but the fact that it is at 50 percent is very high, actually, for this point in an investigation or in a proceeding. It was never that high for Bill Clinton during his impeachment.

So that's something that is bolstering Democrats as they move ahead to this. And when you also do look at independents, there are about 50 percent or so that do feel as though Trump should be impeached.

[10:20:00]

I've been on the campaign trail a lot, and I will say, though, that very few voters are talking about what's going on in D.C. at all. They're still very much focused on issues like health care and like gun control.

WALKER: Jeffrey, you mentioned in a note before we went on the air that it's important to mention that Chief Justice William Rehnquist, when he presided over President Clinton's Senate impeachment trial, he did make a ruling that senators were supposed to act as a court, not as jurors. Can you explain the significance of that and how it should apply to today?

ENGEL: Yes, this is a really, really important and key distinction, that as we go forward thinking about what the articles of impeachment are actually going to hold, we need to keep in the back of our minds that that's a political act. That's to suggest to the country and to voters here is what we as the people who are impeaching Trump or defending Trump think matter. The truth of the matter is Justice Rehnquist in the Clinton case ruled

that senators didn't have to act as jurors, because jurors, he said, only had to decide guilty or innocent. These were a court, the justice said, which meant that they could decide with judgment. They could decide other things. They could bring in any factor they wanted to make their decision. They weren't actually limited to the evidence that was presented at the trial because senators had the best interests of the country at heart. They need to ask themselves nod only did the president do something impeachable, but should the president also be removed before they decide to vote him guilty. It's really a fascinating moment that shows that the Senate ultimately is going to have the power to play this out however they want, despite what the lawyers say and despite what the articles of impeachment may actually have within them.

WALKER: That is a fascinating point, Jeffrey.

Laura, to you. We've been talking about this all morning, that moderate Democrats are getting quite frustrated because, as many people know, they backed the impeachment proceedings knowing that it was going to be narrowly focused on Ukraine. And now you're hearing that the Democratic leadership, they're signaling that the articles of impeachment might include Mueller's findings on obstruction of justice in those articles. Is this a good idea?

BARRON-LOPEZ: Well, I think that right now they're debating whether or not it is. This weekend as the judiciary members are gathered to talk about what articles exactly they want to draft up, and right now it's increasingly looking like it will be the three that we've heard all along, which is abuse of power, obstruction of justice and obstruction of congress. And if it is those three, then yes, that would include Mueller. We heard this week from a number of moderates that they really wish that leadership wouldn't go that route, but leadership really believes that it may be their best case when it comes to taking this argument to the people that by showing that this wasn't just an isolated incident but that in 2016 there was influence with Russia on the election, that Trump has repeatedly sided with Russia saying that it didn't happen, and now into 2020 with the president working with forces in Ukraine to try to dig up dirt on a political rival.

WALKER: They would say that points to a pattern of behavior. We're going to leave it there, Laura Barron-Lopez and Jeffrey Engel, thank you both.

BARRON-LOPEZ: Thank you.

ENGEL: Good to see you.

BLACKWELL: Former Vice President Joe Biden says he was right to call one Iowa voter a damn liar. CNN's Jessica Dean is with Biden as he wraps up his bus tour.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Biden taking a more aggressive strategy here in Iowa. What did that look like this week, and how are voters responding? I'll have more after the break.

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[10:27:35]

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Marge is going to be 100 years old on Sunday. Whatever you're doing, I want some of it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Peanut butter in the morning and beer at night.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: All right.

WALKER: Peanut butter in the morning, beer at night. All right, got that. That was former Vice President Joe Biden last night in Iowa during a stop on his "No Malarkey" bus tour.

BLACKWELL: So this eight-day swing through the state wraps up today with the former vice president taking part in a presidential forum in Cedar Rapids. He's one of six candidates who will answer questions from members of the teamsters' union. CNN's Jessica Dean joins us now. So he's had several stops, but of course that blow-up at a voter is the one that's getting most of the attention.

DEAN: Yes, Victor, Amara, that has gotten a lot of attention here in Iowa, and also all across the news media, that's for sure, when he was interacting with that voter, that back and forth.

Listen, this was 18 counties. This is more time, concentrated time, then we've seen Joe Biden spending here in Iowa. This is a more aggressive strategy that his campaign is taking here. As we saw in our last CNN poll in Iowa, that Pete Buttigieg was emerging as the clear favorite. So they're back in the state. The whole point of this tour was to connect with voters, go to a lot of places that he hadn't been to yet in this cycle. We were in a lot of rural towns across Iowa.

And the whole point, you guys, was to really drive home this message. There's a group of voters here in Iowa who believe and say that their top priority is beating Donald Trump, but they don't support Joe Biden. And the campaign sees those voters as persuadable. They think they can reach them. And this bus tour and its message was directed right at them in a variety of ways. One of those was going on the campaign trail with former Secretary of State John Kerry who also had a come from behind victory in 2004 here in Iowa. They hit the trail together yesterday. This was part of their message to voters. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: After four years of Donald Trump, we're wondering what happened. And if he gets eight years, they will be wondering what we really are. So, Iowa, when you caucus in February, don't just send a message. Send us a president. Send us a man who could put the world back together. Send us Joe Biden.

[10:30:02]

BIDEN: I promise you this. With John's help and yours, we will reverse all the damage this man has done.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: So again, driving home that message that Joe Biden is uniquely positioned to beat Donald Trump in this election, and also that he would have the experience to become president on day one, that is the message they're trying to get across to these voters.

And the thing about this race in Iowa right now, it is incredibly fluid. A lot of people still haven't made up their minds. I talked to several voters who were still deciding, and these people here in Iowa, they take this very seriously. They're going and seeing these candidates once, twice, three times. So we will see kind of how all of this plays out. But again, Joe Biden, two more stops today to wrap up the no malarkey bus tour. Amara and Victor?

WALKER: Jessica Dean, appreciate it, thank you.

BLACKWELL: When we come back, new pictures this hour of an American making the long journey home after President Trump secures his release from an Iranian jail.

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[10:35:06]

BLACKWELL: An American held captive in Iran for more than three years is now free after a rare prisoner swap with the Iranian government. Xiyue Wang is now at U.S. Army Hospital in Germany. The Princeton graduate student had been jailed on spying charges. This was since August of 2016. In return the U.S. freed an Iranian scientist arrested in Chicago last year. Joining me now to talk more about this, CNN political commentators Scott Jennings and Kurt Bardella. Gentlemen, good morning to you.

KURT BARDELLA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Morning.

BLACKWELL: So just in the last few seconds we got this update that a senior administration official, Trump administration official, is not disputing the characterization that this was a prisoner swap. You'll remember in that first statement from the president, it made no mention of what the Iranians got in return for this American coming home, saying folks can characterize it as they like. Scott, let me start with you. It's good news that an American is

coming home. That's a full sentence, and we should all appreciate that. The second half is, if this is a prisoner swap, what's wrong with hearing that from the U.S. government? Why do Americans have to hear it from the Iranians?

JENNINGS: Well, I guess the U.S. government will release information on this as they see fit and as they see that it's in their best interests to do so. I think we're in the initial hours since it happened. So I'm not going to pass judgment on that yet.

But I do want to hear how it all came to be. I do think what you said is vital, that We have an American coming home. And what the Iranians did to this poor university researcher is terrible, and it should be a good reminder to all of us that the Iranian regime is horrific. They do bad things to people. So I'm glad the Trump administration was able to make this deal to get this guy back. So I want to hear more about it, frankly, but I'm glad this guy is coming home, and I'm sure his family is too.

BLACKWELL: Kurt, we heard the characterization from the Iranian foreign minister, this was a prisoner swap. There were steps to actually craft a statement in the president's name to tell us, 100 words or so, of what happened and no mention of a swap. Your take on the differing characterizations of what happened.

BARDELLA: First, I think we all agree it's great that this is happening, it's great that an American is being able to return to his family. But I think this underscores the confusion that we see and the lack of process that exists between this president, the State Department, the Department of Defense. When you have a shadow government being run, this is the kind of stuff we see on something that should really be a layup and victory lap for this president. They still can't get their stories straight because we never know, really, what's actually going on within this government and who's really making decisions. This could be an illustration of why the process works when you abide by traditional diplomatic norms. But instead we're left, again, asking more questions than having answers, and it's an unnecessary self-inflicted wound by the president on what should be a complete layup and a victory for him.

BLACKWELL: I want to stay with foreign policy and what seemed to be a statement from the governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis, about a debt owed by Saudi Arabia after the shooting yesterday at NAS Pensacola. The suspected shooter, a member of the Saudi air force. This is what the governor said. This is just a few hours after the shooting. The victims' bodies still there in the classroom building on the base. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): The government of Saudi Arabia needs to make things better for these victims. I think that they are going to owe a debt here given that this is one of their individuals.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLACKWELL: Kurt, the Saudis owe a debt. And when I heard that, I immediately thought of the 9/11 victims' families who have been trying for some time to sue the Saudi government. What's your take on what the governor said here?

BARDELLA: My mind went right to Jamal Khashoggi and the lack of justice we have seen from that tragedy still and the lack of responsibility we've seen from the Saudi government. And it's a pattern that we're seeing here, I think, that's really frustrating for the American people that these terrible things are happening, and we have yet to see any measure of accountability from Saudi Arabia. And I think that's what Governor DeSantis is talking about.

I think I'd like to see more consistency from people like DeSantis when injustices like what happened with Jamal happens, they're silent on that for some reason, to the point where even this president, President Trump, has completely ignored all the facts regarding Saudi Arabia's and MBS's role in the murdering of Khashoggi. So I'd like to see more consistency from Republicans. If they're going to call out Saudi Arabia for this, I'd like to see them talk about Khashoggi more.

BLACKWELL: Scott?

JENNINGS: Yes, I think the Saudi government does owe a debt here. I think they owe us a bunch of answers here. Just before we went on the air to talk about this, "The New York Times" reported that six other Saudi nationals have been taken into custody, three of them apparently were seen filming the incident.

[10:40:02]

Something happened here, and somebody has to answer for it. If I were the governor of a state where this happened, I'd be outraged and demanding relief and answers as well. So I don't fault the governor for expressing the outrage that the people of Florida feel. I don't think what the Saudi government does frequently is moral, and I don't think what they do to try to violate the rights of people is good. I didn't like the way the Khashoggi issue was handled by, obviously, Saudi Arabia, and I didn't like the posture of the Trump administration on it either. When these regimes do things that violate our moral and our ethical and our values code, we have to call it out. And so I agree with Kurt on that front. And I want to know what happened here.

BLACKWELL: Scott, let me say here that the reporting you referenced by "The New York Times," that is, I just want for the viewer tell everyone that is "New York times" reporting. CNN has not independently confirmed those details. I want to just make that clear.

Let's talk now about domestic issues and the economy -- 266,000 jobs in the month of November, wages up, historically low unemployment. If the economy stays there, Kurt, and the train keeps moving, how do Democrats beat him?

BARDELLA: I think really you let Trump beat himself. The economy is doing so well, and yet we're spending half of our time talking about the president making some bizarre comment about flushing toilets 10 to 15 times.

BLACKWELL: Yes, but let me put this up. While you're talking, I want you to finish your answer. As bizarre as that toilet flushing, shower head, hand washing sound bite is, this is what voters care about, Republicans especially and other voters as well, the economy, 50 percent here care about the economy. They may tolerate some bizarre rants about flushing the toilet 15 times if they have got jobs and their wages are going up.

BARDELLA: My power point is this. The economy was doing well in the run-up to the 2018 midterms, and yet Republicans got waxed and Democrats took back 40 seats in the House. The economy has been doing good this year, and yet we just saw how Republicans lost governorships in Louisiana despite Trump going all in and very publicly getting behind the candidates in Louisiana and Kentucky. And so what we've seen is Trump's ability to constantly step on his own message and his own successes, his lack of clarity on messaging, his inability to let other people within his administration promote his agenda because he with his own tweets completely undermines that messaging, that's been the Achilles heel of this president. Imagine what this presidency would look like if he didn't do the things that he does and tweeted the things he does and create these unnecessary distractions from his successes. I think that's really one of the big reasons why the Trump presidency has been constantly in trouble.

BLACKWELL: Let me get to Scott on this. We've heard from Kevin Hastert who told Poppy Harlow that it would be unlikely not to have a recession over the next year, year-and-a-half potentially. Joe Biden said the same thing. If the numbers soften, and 50 percent of Republicans prioritize the economy, is he vulnerable? Is he in trouble?

JENNINGS: Well, of course. If the economy were to suddenly falter, any incumbent president would be in trouble. Of course, we were talking about this a year ago. Everybody was predicting this year would be the year the economy softened, and this last jobs report absolutely smashed all of that. Jobs, wages, you look at individual demographic sectors in the economy, African-Americans, young African- American men are making some of the biggest job gains in this economy. The president really does have something to run on here.

Kurt is right, some message discipline on this would be terrific. It would be very hard to beat an incumbent president if they ran an entire campaign on an economy this red hot. Now, other issues interfere in campaigns and people get off message sometimes, but any way you slice it, the economy is going great. So yes, to answer your question, sure, something catastrophic happened over the next year, it would be harder to win. But provided that this keeps going, that we do have a growing economy, folks can overlook a lot of things that they don't like, if their jobs are secure, their wages are going up, their 401(k)s are good and their 529s are growing.

BLACKWELL: Got to wrap it there. Scott Jennings, Kurt Bardella, thank you both. BARDELLA: Thanks a lot.

JENNINGS: Thanks.

BLACKWELL: We'll be back.

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[10:48:18]

BLACKWELL: We've got one weekend to go in the college football season. It's a question of who's in and who's out. We'll get some answers today.

WALKER: Yes, Coy Wire and the Tums Tailgate are holding it down at the SEC championship game in Atlanta. Should I first ask you about the po' boy sandwich? Maybe later.

(LAUGHTER)

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: The po' boy is all gone, long gone, Amara. Hello to you and Victor.

Nine of the last 13 national champions have come from the SEC. Today we have one of the best offenses in the nation in LSU against one of the best defenses in Georgia. It is a sellout here in Atlanta. But about 70 percent of the ticket sales went to Georgia fans, according to Vivid Seats. The bulldogs have beaten three teams in the top 15 this season. They're ranked fourth in the nation. And if they win, they are in the playoff. If they lose, though, they're going home. LSU hasn't won the SEC since 2011 but they have been one of the hottest teams on the planet all season led by the Heisman frontrunner, quarterback Joe Burrow. They are undefeated. And even if they lose, they probably still make the playoffs, but their coach, Ed O., wants none of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED ORGERON, LSU HEAD COACH: I'm not buying into that at all. We've got to win. I don't know if we've got to get to get in the playoffs or not, I'm not even talking about that. Our goal is to beat Georgia and win the SEC.

CADE MAYS, GEORGIA OFFENSIVE LINEMAN: It definitely helps our whole team. We've been in huge games before, so just not letting the moment get bigger than it is an just living in the moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIRE: Elsewhere, number five Utah got kicked clean out of playoff conversation last night. They got rolled up in the PAC-12 championship game by the Oregon Ducks, ranked 13th in the nation.

[10:50:02]

They got a huge game from sophomore C.J. Verdell, 200 yards, including this 70-yard score, three touchdowns overall for Verdell against the nation's number three scoring defense by the way. Ducks win 37-15.

But Conference Championship Saturday, Victor and Amara, very important for these players. The seniors, it's going to be a last game for a lot of them, so expect a lot of heart and emotion on display.

BLACKWELL: Absolutely. Coy, thank you.

WALKER: Thanks, Coy.

Next, President Trump targets new Obama-era regulations and promises to undo them or, rather, flush them away.

(LAUGHTER)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:55:21]

BLACKWELL: So President Trump, he was talking about toilets with business leaders at the White House yesterday. He was not joking around about a call for more water efficiency. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We have a situation where we're looking very strongly at sinks and showers and other elements of bathrooms where you turn on the faucet and you don't get any water. They take a shower and water comes dripping out. It's dripping out, very quietly dripping out. People are flushing toilets 10 times, 15 times as opposed to once. They end up using more water. So EPA is looking at that very strongly at my suggestion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: The president also blamed environmentally friendly light bulbs for giving off a certain glow. He says they make him look orange and he doesn't like that. The Trump administration has rolled back energy efficient rules on light bulbs.

WALKER: There's a lot of passion there.

That's our time. Thanks for watching.

BLACKWELL: Just let it sit. Just leave it in the air.

WALKER: Is there anything beyond that?

(LAUGHTER)

BLACKWELL: CNN Newsroom with Fredricka Whitfield is up next.

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