Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Democrats Unveil Two Articles of Impeachment; Rep. Mike Quigley (D-IL) is Interviewed about Articles of Impeachment; Trump Slams FBI Director. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired December 10, 2019 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Looking at all of this. And to Pam's reporting there, Senate Republicans in -- in her reporting exceedingly unlikely to acquiesce to that expedited demand from the White House on a Senate trial starting right away.

You think this whole thing, both sides now, has just moved too fast?

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, the legacy of an impeachment isn't decided at the time of the impeachment. It comes later. One of the things that past impeachments have shown us is that very important material, very important information can come out after the Judiciary Committee votes on the articles.

The famous smoking gun transcript with regard to Nixon. That came out after the House Judiciary Committee had -- had approve three articles of impeachment. So the process continues. And it takes the country years to determine whether the impeachment was warranted or not, whether it was too partisan. So it's too early to say.

The more buy-in you get from people who are not the most partisan of the Democratic caucus, who might be the open-minded members of the Republican caucus, the more buy-in you have, the easier it is for the American people to understand why we're using this process over an election to determine who our president is.

I'll tell you, two things to look at right now, the issues right at this moment. As Congressman Schiff made clear and as Congressman Nadler made clear, Chairman Nadler made clear, it's not just the next election. It's the nature of Congress as an institution. Our institutions are not popular at the moment. President Trump has taken a risk that Americans have so little respect for Congress that he can say no to everything. He is the first president in history to have said no to every single subpoena sent to either him or members of his administration.

Just step back and think about that. Richard Nixon kept a lot of incriminating evidence to himself but he shared with Congress. Bill Clinton shared with Congress. Neither one felt that the American people would accept a complete stonewall. This president says, no, I can -- I don't have to give you anything if I wish. So Congress is -- the future of Congress' power, Republicans and

Democrats alike, have an interest in this, is at stake. And that is a key issue here. It's not simply whether our elections in 2020 will be more fair than the ones in 2016 or whether a foreign power will have an opportunity to mess with them again. It's also, what do we, as Americans, believe any more about the separation of powers doctrine. That's at stake. And I believe that as people begin to think about this, they'll think less about the fact that it's just the Democratic caucus that is writing these impeachment articles. But it's also the Democrats are making an argument for the future, for posterity.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: But that is one of the things that makes this whole thing so extraordinary. When we started at the beginning of this process back when Nancy Pelosi was opposed to impeachment, she was opposed because she said this is such an extraordinary step. It's so divisive. We need to make sure that we have buy-in. And yet here we are in December and the expectation is at the moment that the Republicans will remain largely united, that the president's strategy of stonewalling has been largely successful because he has not responded to a single subpoena and Republicans still remain united.

So it is, on some level, it's a referendum on this question that -- that you're raising here, which is, is this a moment where people will wake up and realize that the institutions are crumbling? And on the Republican side, the answer is very clearly no to that. They are not budging even one inch.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: To Tim's point, news moves quickly, history moves slowly.

HARLOW: There you go.

SCIUTTO: We will watch this over time. We've seen enormous amount of change in the last several weeks. Remember this started two or three months ago with a whistleblower complaint, just a whiff of that.

HARLOW: Of course.

SCIUTTO: And here we are today. Will it move forward beyond that? The fact is, we don't know yet, but we will bring it to you as it happens.

Stay with us. We're going to speak to a member of the House Intelligence Committee who's considering these very questions, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:38:53]

SCIUTTO: We have just learned this hour what is included in the House's articles of impeachment against President Trump. This is history on Capitol Hill. Only four times in the country's history have articles of impeachment been introduced against a sitting president. I'm joined now by Democratic Congressman Mike Quigley of Illinois. He's a member of the House Intelligence Committee, which, of course, has been central to the impeachment investigation. Congressman, thank you for taking the time this morning.

REP. MIKE QUIGLEY (D-IL): Thank you.

SCIUTTO: We heard Speaker Pelosi, Jerry Nadler, Adam Schiff there make the case that the president has violated the Constitution here. Have you made that case?

QUIGLEY: Oh, I think so. I think what they spelled out is the president of the United States averted foreign policy, undermined our national security. You know, I think our job now is to remind the American people why this mattered. How the Democratic process was endangered, and our national security. I think it's time to stress that Ukraine matters. Perhaps it's best to say what Zbigniew (ph) Brzezinski said some time ago, that Russia, without Ukraine, is not an empire. But with Ukraine subordinated, and controlled, it is an empire. That threatens our national security.

[09:40:08]

The president was willing to risk that by taking away critical military aid while they're at war, putting Russia at an extraordinary advantage. That's why it matters.

SCIUTTO: If that is true, why have you not been able to convince any Republicans to join in this mission, including Republicans such as Francis Rooney, who early on said that they would not rule out voting for impeachment, but also you now have two Democrats stating that they will not vote along to impeach the president.

If you've made your case, why have you not been able to bring the other party on board and indeed are losing a small number, granted, but losing members of your own party?

QUIGLEY: Look, we only lost one on the procedural vote. Losing one or two on the Democratic side is extraordinarily marginal.

I think what the president said during the campaign's instructed to be reminded of. He said he thought he could shoot somebody in the street and still remain -- maintain his popularity with his base. I think you add to the base the Republicans who are currently filing for their primaries. They have decided to put party above the rule of law. Party above what is right.

I would like to think that if the roles were reversed and the president, a Democratic president, had done this, we would do the right thing and move forward, as we are now. There are some things that transcend party. I'd like to hope that some of my Republicans will get there.

Unfortunately, all we're seeing with my Republican colleagues is they -- they get to the point of profiles in courage after they've left. I mean Speaker Ryan came out and started criticizing President Trump after he left. That's all too often the pattern.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this because listening closely to the proceedings just moments ago, Adam Schiff, Nancy Pelosi, Jerry Nadler made the case and said straight out the integrity of our next election is at risk, that the president is inviting foreign interference again.

I wonder, as you speak to the American people here, and if you hear that in the background, that is a -- that is a fire alarm test here in the studio, so no concern. But as you --

QUIGLEY: And we have some cargo going by right now, too.

SCIUTTO: Can you tell the American people that 2020 is secure as an election or are you concerned that it is not secure?

QUIGLEY: Look, I was the sponsor of the House measure to put $380 million toward election security. Last time our elections were -- the integrity was challenged was after Bush/Gore. The federal government spent $3.5 billion. We have the decimal point in the wrong spot. We are not ready.

Trump appointed DNI -- former DNI Director Coats said the lights are still flashing red. Director Comey said the Russians will be back. We are not ready. And the president of the United States is moving us in the opposite direction.

SCIUTTO: That was a remarkable statement to hear, we are not ready as a country to protect the next election. Concerning words.

Congressman Mike Quigley, thanks very much. We look forward to speaking to you again.

QUIGLEY: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:47:59]

SCIUTTO: Well, just under an hour since Democrats announced historic articles of impeachment against the president, interestingly, the president has not yet publicly commented or tweeted about that news.

HARLOW: At all.

SCIUTTO: He did just tweet about the USMCA trade bill, the replacement for NAFTA, and even had a line in there saying, looking like very good Democratic support for USMCA. That would be great for our country.

I don't know if you call that a thank you to Democrats, but notable that he has not made a public comment yet.

HARLOW: It's remarkable that Democrats struck a deal with the president on the day that they moved to impeach the president.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: I mean that's remarkable. SCIUTTO: That is the world we live in.

HARLOW: There you go.

SCIUTTO: No question.

HARLOW: All right.

SCIUTTO: Other news, the president is lashing out against his own FBI director this morning. This after Christopher Wray embraced the findings of the Justice Department's inspector general's report. The report, we should note, debunks the president's repeated claims over years that the agency engaged in a partisan, politically motivated investigation of his campaign. It says so explicitly in the IG's report. The president, however, unloading, tweeting, I don't know what report current director of the FBI, Christopher Wray, was reading but it sure wasn't the one given to me. With that kind of attitude, he will never be able to fix the FBI.

The tweet is in response to these comments from Wray.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: I think it's important for the American people to know that when the FBI opens an investigation, it does so with proper predication, with proper authorization based on the law and the facts and nothing else. And I think it's important that the inspector general found that in this particular instance the investigation was opened with appropriate predication and authorization.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the biggest takeaway and the most important takeaway from the report for you?

WRAY: Well, I think there's a number of takeaways that are important. One, that we fully cooperated with this independent review. Two, that we fully accept its findings and recommendations. Three, that the inspector general did not find political bias or improper motivations impacting the opening of the investigation or the decision to use certain investigative tools during the investigations.

[09:50:09]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Including FISA.

WRAY: Including FISA. But that the inspector general did find a number of instances where employees, either failed to follow our policies, neglected to exercise appropriate diligence, or in some other way fell short of the standard of conduct and performance that we and that I, as director, expect of all of our employees.

HARLOW: It was a very noteworthy interview because in addition to that, the FBI director also took on another conspiracy theory that has been peddled over and over again by the president himself, that Ukraine meddled in the 2016 election. No evidence of that. Listen to the FBI director on that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the government of Ukraine directly interfere in the 2016 election on the scale that the Russians did?

WRAY: We have no information that indicates Ukraine interfered with the 2016 presidential election.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And -- and we recently heard from the president himself that he wanted the Crowdstrike portion of this whole conspiracy and the Ukraine investigated. And I --and I'm hearing you say there's no evidence to support that as far as you know?

WRAY: As I said, we have no -- we, at the FBI, have no information that would indicate that Ukraine tried to interfere in the 2016 presidential election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That is important and notable, especially right now.

Let's bring in CNN justice correspondent Laura Jarrett.

Welcome back, Laura.

And Josh Campbell, CNN correspondent, former FBI special agent.

So, Josh, also, congratulations on the new book. Very appropriate right now. The title, "Crossfire Hurricane: Inside Donald Trump's War on the FBI."

Laura, let me begin with you.

So those words from the president knocking Wray because he spoke the truth, I guess?

LAURA JARRETT, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: And defend his team. It's --

HARLOW: It reminded me a lot of how the president attacked attorney general -- former Attorney General Jeff Sessions.

JARRETT: It's classic, right? Tweet about him and attack him publicly, deride him, and what is Wray going to say back? He can't -- he can't return fire on the president. The most sort of ominous part of the tweet to me is "current."

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes.

JARRETT: Look, I get that he's the current director, but perhaps not always. But he can't fire another FBI director.

SCIUTTO: Or --

JARRETT: Or could he?

SCIUTTO: Yes. JARRETT: But it seems like he'd rather just take it out on -- on Twitter. But it seems -- you know, Wray went out of his way to say, mistakes were made. He didn't just say, my team was perfect. He acknowledged that there were a series of problems, a series of failures, significant ones in how the FBI went about obtaining that surveillance warrant on Carter Page, the former Trump aide. But he defended his team by just saying simply, the deep state is a corrosive term.

SCIUTTO: Right.

JARRETT: And, definitively, Wray did not have a separate interpretation of the report. Wray quoted from the report, which said that there was not a political motivation to the start of this investigation, which has been the president's and his allies' repeated claim. The report debunks that. The president falsely, really, in the Oval Office yesterday said something different about the report.

Josh, I want to just make a point, because you served in the FBI. The reason the FBI, Justice Department, intelligence community have inspector generals, is it not, is to have a non-partisan arbitrator, as it were, to look and investigate without partisan motivation. So you have the non-partisan here come to these conclusions. Tell us about the significance when you have a Bill Barr, of course also appointed by the president, who publicly says he doesn't buy the report, right? Tell us about how folks at home should read that.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's quite unusual. There are obviously inspectors general in multiple government agencies, but it's very important in the Department of Justice because this is an agency and its components who have incredible power. The powers to deny people their liberty, the power to surveil U.S. citizens. And with that power comes oversight.

This is an independent entity that is charged with ferreting out waste, fraud, and abuse. And, historically, the findings of the inspector general have been highly credited by both sides of the political aisle, by people in and out of government. This is unusual, now, to see an attorney general come out and say that, look, these findings, I don't accept these.

And what I think it comes down to, as Laura was mentioning, you know, the different teams here. If you think of this equation in terms of sides, right now on one side you have the independent inspector general and the FBI director who were saying that, look, these are our findings. On the other side of that equation is the president and Bill Barr, the U.S. attorney general.

HARLOW: Yes.

CAMPBELL: We've seen Barr in the past, you know, seemingly run interference for the president.

HARLOW: Yes.

CAMPBELL: I will say that it is unusual to see Wray come out. He's someone who, you know, most people probably couldn't pick out if he was in a crowd, you know, walking by them. But he knows what he's doing, coming out, you know, defending this agency, coming out forcefully.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CAMPBELL: And I think he understands that's a role he has to play.

HARLOW: Yes, that's a very good point.

Thank you, both. Laura, Josh, we appreciate it.

CAMPBELL: Thanks.

[09:54:57]

SCIUTTO: Coming up, just minutes away, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, less than an hour after announcing impeachment articles against the president, she's going to speak on the USMCA trade agreement, in the same day, in the same hour, on the same morning, an agreement with the president on a trade deal moments after introducing articles of impeachment against that president. We're going to bring you Speaker Pelosi's comments live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]