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Boris Johnson Dodges Question On Shocking Emergency Room Picture; Long Held Voting Loyalties Shift In U.K. Election; Justice Department I.G.: FBI's Russia Probe was Justified; Aung San Suu Kyi at Hague to Defend Myanmar. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired December 10, 2019 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John Vause, live from Studio 7 at CNN World Headquarters.
Coming up this hour CNN NEWSROOM, we're just hours away now from Democrats announcing articles of impeachment of the 45th President of the United States. For another day public hearings, it is clear, Republicans see no evil, hear no evil.
The presidents of Ukraine and Russia face to face for the first time say they are ready for cease-fire after years of war.
And, no signs of, life a recovery operation is underway New Zealand after a deadly volcano eruption on White Island.
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VAUSE: We begin with breaking news out of Washington. Just a few hours from, now Democrats plan to announce the articles of impeachment against the U.S. president Donald Trump. Sources tell CNN at least two are being considered, abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.
This comes after the House Judiciary Committee's impeachment hearing on Monday turned into a shouting match between Democrats and Republicans. CNN's Jessica Schneider begins our coverage.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: The diametrically opposed Democrats and Republicans repeatedly at odds during what was likely the final public hearings on impeachment.
REP. JERRY NADLER (D-NY): The President welcomed into foreign interference in our elections in 2016, He demanded it for 2020, then he got caught. The evidence shows that Donald J. Trump, the President of the United States has put himself before his country.
REP. DOUG COLLINS (R-GA): At the end of the day, all this is about is about a clock and a calendar because they can't get over the fact Donald Trump is president of the United States.
SCHNEIDER: The hearing spotlighted counsel for both sides arguing they're clashing cases. Democrats council Daniel Goldman described President Trump's efforts to convince Ukraine to investigate the Biden's as a threat to American democracy.
DANIEL GOLDMAN, COUNSEL, HOUSE DEMOCRATS: President Trump's persistent and continuing effort to coerce a foreign country to help him cheat to win an election is a clear and present danger to our free and fair elections and to our national security.
SCHNEIDER: While Republicans counsel Steve Castor portrayed it all as a ploy to remove a president Democrats don't like.
STEVE CASTOR, MINORITY COUNSEL, HOUSE REPUBLICANS: To impeach a president whose 63 million people voted for over eight lines in a call transcript is baloney.
SCHNEIDER: The day-long debate often erupted into disputes over process and the witness list.
REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): Is this one we just hear staff ask questions of other staff and the members get dealt out of this whole hearing? For hours, you're going to try to overturn the result of an election with unelected people giving --
NADLER: The gentleman will suspend.
GAETZ: We got a problem.
SCHNEIDER: Republicans railed against Democrat's refusal to call House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff as the main witness since Schiff authored the 300-page impeachment report sent to the Judiciary Committee last week.
COLLINS: Where's Adam? Where's Adam? His report, his name, Mr. Goldman, you're a great attorney, but you're not Adams Schiff and you don't wear a pin.
SCHNEIDER: Republicans press their own competing narrative, blasting Joe Biden and drilling into a disproven claim that Biden push to get a Ukrainian prosecutor fired to stop an investigation into Burisma where Biden's son served on the board.
COLLINS: So Joe Biden, of everybody that we discuss, but he's the only one that's done a quid pro quo. He's the only one that has use taxpayer dollars to actually threaten the foreign government. And we're sitting here pretending that this is not happening?
SCHNEIDER: And Republican Counsel Castor tried to validate claims Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election.
CASTOR: Contemporaneous news articles in 2016 noted how President Trump's candidacy lead Kiev's wider political leadership to do something they would never have attempted before, intervene however indirectly in the U.S. election. SCHNEIDER: Something the Intelligence Community concluded these not true. Republicans also seized on the speedy pace in which the impeachment inquiry has proceeded, saying it's rushed.
CASTOR: Obviously, we all wish there was an easy button, but Congressional investigations of consequence take time.
SCHNEIDER: Democrats though urge, time is of the essence.
NADLER: The integrity of our next election is at stake. Nothing could be more urgent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: On the second day of public hearings by the Judiciary Committee, Republican lawmakers seem to have made a very conscious choice when it comes to President Trump: see no evil, hear no evil.
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VAUSE: With a rapid-fire pace which added a perception of urgency mixed with outrage, Republicans vigorously defended Trump, claiming he was the victim of a three-year long conspiracy by Democrats trying to force him from office. He didn't do it, they said, and if he did, it still wouldn't have been wrong.
And if Joe Biden wins in 2020 or presumably any other Democrat, they will impeach him for doing the same thing, even though he didn't. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. LOUIE GOHMERT (R-TX): We've already got the forms. All we have to do is eliminate Donald Trump's name and put Joe Biden's name in there because he's on video, he and his son. He basically has admitted to the crime that's being hoisted on the president improperly.
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VAUSE: And just to add further confusion to chaos, Republicans continue to spin Kremlin conspiracy theories, accusing Ukraine of meddling in the 2016 election. But in reality, the CIA, FBI, NSA, they all say with high confidence, Russia conducted a sophisticated campaign to sway the election results.
So if Ukraine was actually trying to influence or impact the election, it was really a pretty woeful attempt.
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VAUSE: Joining us now is Michael Genovese, president of the Global Policy Institute at Loyola Marymount University.
MICHAEL GENOVESE, POLITICAL ANALYST: And in politics, facts don't matter as much as perception. And whoever can control the narrative and create the perception of what the truth is, they win the argument.
And Donald Trump is a master at that. He's a salesman and he's a master salesman. And he is painting a picture that is in direct opposition to what is true.
We know that it was the Russians. Everyone knows it was the Russians. And yet you paint the picture and the Republicans in the Congress are willing handmaidens for Donald Trump, that it really is the Ukrainians.
VAUSE: This could be a perfect storm in a sort of a post-fact world that there is so much information out there. It's just hard to know exactly what is true and what is not as true and there's just tidbits which just muddy the waters.
You know, for example, "The Washington Post" put together a list of more than 60 countries -- 60 countries whose leaders made negative comments in public about Donald Trump either as a candidate or was a president.
Comments like this one from Ecuador's president at the time. His discourse is so dumb, so basic. The Danish prime minister also noted, he changes opinions like the rest of us change underwear. And you know, Mexican president at the time, that's the way most Mussolini arrived and the way Hitler arrived.
You know, so Republicans keep pushing this line about you know, Ukraine being anti-Trump and pro-Hillary, you know, whether it was true or not, it doesn't actually matter. Because what does matter is that a lot of countries said mean things about Donald Trump and Ukraine was the only one to lose their military aid?
GENOVESE: That's right. And I mean, you saw it at the NATO meeting where people were openly laughing. Leaders were opening laughing at Donald Trump and mocking him. And so I think the world has a much better sense of Donald Trump than we do because we see him every day.
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GENOVESE: And every day, he paints the picture, in words and he's a master at that.
And so you know, the perception is created that the world is very different than the one you read about. And he even said, don't listen to what you hear, don't read what you read, listen to what I say only. And so as long as we do that, the president has the advantage.
He has the bully pulpit. And as long as he has the bully pulpit, he can shout louder than anyone else, get their attention and he's very good at convincing you of things that you know -- you must know aren't true.
VAUSE: OK, you know, the President continues to do you know, what's been described as the Kremlin's work by repeating a lie, even though he was told by his former Homeland Security Advisor he's likely to get this Ukraine thing. It was a conspiracy theory, he said, which has been totally debunked.
Last week, Fiona Hill, the senior advisor on Russia or the former White House Senior Advisor, I should say, she lectured republicans telling them, this is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves.
Explain the calculation here for me among the Republican lawmakers, you know, justifying this line which is clearly wrong. They know it's wrong. They've been told it's wrong. There's no evidence to support it over and over and over again. I mean, I know this is the political winner for them. They want to see Donald Trump protected. But what are the long term consequences?
GENOVESE: Well, you're right and then the 9.5 hour -- it only seemed longer than 9.5 hours -- snooze fest today. They kept on ironically, not defending Donald Trump but attacking everyone else.
What are the long term implications of such a thing?
It debases the truth, it debases our democratic argument. It allows us to be manipulated because we will let ourselves be manipulated.
And the Republicans are basing I think their strategy on the Donald Trump notion that the people aren't smart enough to figure it out. They'll follow me.
They'll follow the pretty pictures and they'll follow the shiny objects and I'll paint a beautiful word picture, I'll say it over and over again, repeating things matters and he'll keep repeating it and people will just get worn down and they'll believe it.
And so, if debases democracy and it debases the rational choices that people are supposed to make in a democracy.
VAUSE: You know, if anyone who was part of the high school debate team knows the easiest way to destroy an argument essentially is to take each point one at a time, take them out of context and discredit them. Republicans have done that repeatedly over the last couple of weeks, over the last couple of years, actually.
So that brings us to Democrat Eric Swalwell who's on the committee. He had these questions late in the day. Listen to this.
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REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): Who personally asked President Zelensky to investigate his political rival, Joe Biden?
GOLDMAN: President Trump.
SWALWELL: Who stood on the White House lawn and confirmed that he wanted Ukraine to investigate Vice President Biden?
GOLDMAN: President Trump.
SWALWELL: Who stood on that same lawn and said that China should also investigate Vice President Biden?
GOLDMAN: President Trump.
SWALWELL: As to anything that we do not know in this investigation, who has blocked us from knowing it?
GOLDMAN: President Trump and the White House.
SWALWELL: So as it relates to President Trump, is he an incidental player or a central player in this scheme?
GOLDMAN: President Trump is the central player in this scheme.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: I just wondering, what should be the strategy here for the Democrats, just keep focusing on those core issues, the facts. It's very hard to, you know, ignore facts when the other side has a clown show which is going on.
GENOVESE: Ronald Reagan used to say, facts are messy things and I think he was right. You have to articulate a message. You can't just rely on throwing the facts out.
And I think the exchange who just presented is very clear, very to the point, but is it very relevant?
It should be relevant.
But the question that you have to ask is, are the people listening?
The hearings that we had today did not move the needle, did not change views, they just hardened views. And so you have to be in an environment where people are willing to listen and willing to be persuaded by the truth, or by version of the truth.
We aren't in that world. We're in a hyper-partisan world where we take sides and my tribe is attacking your tribe. Whatever my tribe says, I'll accept, whatever your tribe says is a lie. And so in that kind of atmosphere, rational argument, it just goes by the wayside.
VAUSE: Yes, we're out of time, Michael, but we had those articles of impeachment possibly being unveiled the next couple of hours. I thought there would be some movement on the Republican side, but it's gone the other way.
Republicans have hardened their defense around Donald, which seems kind of bizarre from everything that we've heard.
Good to see you, Michael. Thanks for being with us. Michael Genovese live from Los Angeles, thank you.
GENOVESE: Thank you, John.
(END VIDEOTAPE) VAUSE: The Ukrainian president had more pressing concerns Monday in Paris. Vladimir Zelensky had his first face-to-face meeting with the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, for talks on ending the conflict in Eastern Ukraine. They agreed to work toward local elections in the separation zone, though no timing was set, and they also agreed to a cease-fire.
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VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): Ukraine insisted the solution is not possible without achieving the most important goal which is the security in the east and part of Ukraine.
And when the security is achieved, we could start a political solution.
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ZELENSKY (through translator): Today, Ukraine, Germany, France and Russia Federation discussed some very important matters. First of all, it's urgent measures to secure peace in Ukraine and complete ceasefire in the Eastern part of Ukraine, which should start before the end of 2019.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: The conflict began five years ago when Russia occupied and annexed Crimea, then backed pro-Russian separatists in Donbas. About 13,000 people have been killed in the fighting.
A criminal investigation has been opened into the deaths of at least five people after volcano explosion in New Zealand. Officials say at least eight more people are actually missing and presumed dead, part of a group of 47 tourists who were on White Island at the time of the eruption.
The blast happened while tourists from a cruise ship were visiting the island. Video shows people fleeing as the eruption happened. The emergency crews have evacuated dozens of injured to nearby hospitals. First responders described what was a terrifying scene.
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RUSSELL CLARK, INTENSIVE CARE PARAMEDIC: It was like -- I've seen the "Chernobyl" miniseries and there was just -- everything was just blanketed in ash. It was -- it was quite an overwhelming feeling. There was a helicopter on the island that I see being there at the time. It was -- three of the blades were off it. It's quite a -- it's quite a -- it's quite a shocking experience.
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VAUSE: For the very latest, let's bring in journalist Donna-Marie Lever, who is in Tauranga in New Zealand.
Thank you for being with us.
What is the basis of this criminal investigation?
DONNA-MARIE LEVER, JOURNALIST: Well, look, this is a criminal investigation just announced in the past hour here by police. And of, course this will be to make sure that no human error played any part of this tragedy. And we need to let that play out.
And probably can't speculate on exactly what that will entail. It is not unusual for the police to launch such an investigation, with such a large-scale incident. The numbers here, 47 were on White Island when it erupted, five have been confirmed dead, eight still missing and presumed dead, 31 people treated at hospitals around New Zealand for various injuries and burns.
Police say it is unlikely there will be any more survivors. We know the tourists caught up in this were from the U.K. Germany, Australia, New Zealand, China, Malaysia and the United States of America.
Drones were launched out at sea late this morning so that emergency services could have a look around as well. But they are sticking with the very somber line that there is no signs of life.
VAUSE: Yes, this is a tragedy all around for so many people.
But what about those who are in hospital right now?
Any word on just how seriously they have been hurt, whether they will be released anytime soon?
LEVER: We are starting to hear a little bit about that now, the sad thing about this tragedy is the death toll is likely to go into double digits. And of course, some of those people, we've been warned by health authorities, could well die from their injuries. Some are in a very critical and serious condition tonight.
VAUSE: Donna, we appreciate the update, even if the news is not what people were hoping for. But thank you.
Donna-Marie Lever joining us from New Zealand.
In another story we are following, Chile reports its air force has lost communication with one of its planes about an hour after takeoff. The Hercules C-130 had 38 passengers and crew on board. It left a base at the south of the country and was headed for an air base in Antarctica. A search and rescue team has been activated.
Still to come, as the British election looms, political loyalties have been turned upside down, even for a former Labour MP.
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IAN AUSTIN, FORMER BRITISH LABOUR MP: I've never been a member of any other political party. I've never voted for anybody else. Until this, year I could never have imagined this would happen.
VAUSE (voice-over): So why is this year so different?
That's up next.
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VAUSE: Also, she's got support at home but faces international criticism for her defense of Myanmar on genocide charges. Nobel Prize laureate Aung San Suu Kyi's appearance at The Hague.
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VAUSE: In the final days of the British election campaign for Boris Johnson, a man known for his ability to make the most of a TV image. Along with Brexit, the National Health Service is a major point of contention.
So when an ITV journalist trying to show Mr. Johnson a picture of a sick child lying on the floor of an overcrowded hospital, the prime minister took the reporter's phone, put it in his pocket, at first refusing to even look at the photo.
Here's part of that exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: No, I think most people do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm talking about this boy, Prime Minister.
How do you feel, looking at that photo?
JOHNSON: Of course. Let me tell you, let me tell you that (INAUDIBLE) --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- looking at it now, Prime Minister.
Look at it now. (INAUDIBLE).
JOHNSON: If you don't mind, I'll give you -- I'll give you an interview in an hour. What we are doing is we are taking this country forward and we're investing in the NHS. And what would be the worst thing possible would be to have a government that mired in more debunk, more disarray and unable to move forward.
So I have very simply --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You refuse to look at the photo. You've taken my phone and put it in your pocket, Prime Minister. His mother says the NHS is in crisis.
What's your response?
JOHNSON: It is a terrible, terrible photo, and I apologize obviously to the family and all those who have terrible experiences in the NHS.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Later the British Health Secretary visited the hospital in question, trying to smooth things over. Opposition Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn responded to all this with Boris Johnson. He tweeted out this, "He just doesn't care."
As British voters go to the polls this Thursday, what have been long- held political loyalties are shifting. We sent CNN's Matthew Chance to find out why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Welcome to Dudley in the English Midlands, where ancient traditions are being overturned and where the old town crier is still going strong but the overwhelmingly Brexit supporting locals are questioning long-held political allegiances, thinking of voting for the other side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would possibly vote Conservative.
CHANCE: Conservative?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
CHANCE: Because this is a traditionally Labour place.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I know it, is but I would vote Conservative at the moment --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've always voted Labour.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've always voted no but now I don't know.
CHANCE: What is making you -- you've always voted Labour?
What is making you hesitant for voting Labour this time?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know if Jeremy Corbyn is up to the job.
CHANCE (voice-over): And it is not just the voters here turning their backs on Labour. In a local pub, we met the area's former Labour MP, now urging the people of Dudley to vote Conservative.
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AUSTIN: For the first time in my life, I've decided to vote for the Conservatives and I did that because I think that Jeremy Corbyn is not fit to run our country. I do not think he can be trusted to defend our country. I don't think he's a patriot.
CHANCE: It's a big step to take, for people around the world watching this.
(CROSSTALK)
CHANCE: Changing support from Labour to Conservative is huge.
AUSTIN: It is almost unthinkable. I joined the Labour Party at the age of 18, 35 years ago, here in Dudley. I've never been a member of any other political party. I've never voted for anybody else until this year, I could never have imagined that this would happen.
CHANCE: What is happening in this constituency of Dudley is also taking place across the country: Brexit, disillusionment with politics and politicians, are turning traditional party loyalties upside down, making this British general election particularly tough to fight but hard to predict.
CHANCE (voice-over): And of course, the changes cut in all directions. Take the suburb of Chingford (ph) outside London, where a mixture of disillusionment and anger at Brexit among Remain-voting locals like Rick the barber is threatening a long-held Conservative Party majority.
RICK, BARBER: I'm not going to vote. I won't be voting, no.
CHANCE: Why?
RICK: I won't be voting because I don't agree with any of them. I think it's all corrupt and whoever we vote for, it doesn't even count anyway. That's my view.
CHANCE: Are there any politicians in Britain that you think deserve your vote?
RICK: No.
CHANCE: No one?
RICK: No.
CHANCE: Boris Johnson?
RICK: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's here. I am changing because I heard what has happened (INAUDIBLE).
It's a mood a local Labour candidate hopes she can turn her way in an area once represented by Winston Churchill himself, the doyer (ph) of British Conservative leaders. She admits she's facing an uphill struggle to engage voters at all, especially in the dark winter months of this election campaign.
CHANCE: To what extent are you hearing that on the doorstep? FAIZA SHAHEEN, U.K. LABOUR PARTY CANDIDATE: Here a lot, a lot of people are disillusioned with politics right now and I don't blame them. You know I think there is a lot of mistrust and there's been so much information and lies that people are really struggling to see who they can trust in this world.
CHANCE (voice-over): And who in this most consequential British election deserves their vote?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, folks, how are you?
CHANCE (voice-over): Matthew Chance, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Still to come, another Trump conspiracy theory bites the dust. An inspector general's report finds no political motivation in the origins of the FBI's Russia investigation
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VAUSE: Welcome back. I'm John Vause with an update on the top news this hour.
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Democrats are planning to announce at least two articles of impeachment against the U.S. president in the day ahead. Sources tell CNN they'll be abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. This comes after a very contentious House Judiciary Commission [SIC] impeachment hearing on Monday.
The presidents of Ukraine and Russia held their first face-to-face meeting in Paris. Volodymyr Zelensky and Vladimir Putin agreed to a ceasefire in Eastern Ukraine by the year's end. They also pledged to work towards local elections in separatist regions but did not mention a time table.
Police in New Zealand opening a criminal investigation after five people died while touring an active volcano which suddenly erupted. Eight others are missing, presumed dead.
It has been a favor Trump talking point for two years now, a huge applause line at campaign rallies. You may have heard it. The deep state controls the FBI, and the Russia investigation all part of a huge conspiracy against the U.S. president.
But now, an internal investigation of the FBI by the inspector general has found none of it's true. A 435-page report by the inspector general refutes Trump claims that the FBI illegally spied on his campaign, but it also found significant errors in how the FBI carried out surveillance warrants and targeted former Trump campaign advisor Carter Page.
In his comments before the report, the president offered his own take on the Russia investigation. Here we go. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This was an overthrow of government. This was an attempted overthrow, and a lot of people were in on it. And they got caught. They got caught red- handed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: For more now, I'm joined by CNN law enforcement contributor and retired FBI special agent Steve Moore.
Hey, Steve.
STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Hey, John. How are you?
VAUSE: I'm good. It's hard to know what part of the report the president was actually reading when he came to the conclusion about an attempted overthrow of the government. To be fair, the FBI comes into some criticism. One of the most serious concerns aren't made until page 417. And it regards handling a mobile surveillance request on the former campaign advisor, Carter Page.
It says this, "That so many basic and fundamental errors were made on four FISA applications by three separate, hand-picked teams, on one of the most sensitive FBI investigations that was briefed to the highest levels within the FBI and that FBI officials expected would eventually be subjected to close scrutiny, raised significant questions regarding the FBI chain of command" -- it goes on.
OK, all this disarray (ph) seem to be borne of careless work, not following proper procedure, but nothing out of a systemic bias or political bias against the president or anything about a deep state.
MOORE: Well, you know, while -- while this doesn't reek of deep state, while this doesn't -- while this doesn't appear at all to be an attempted coup, I don't come down as far as these were simple errors.
These were agents who wanted a FISA so badly that they were willing to intentionally conceal information that they knew they should provide. These people were at the assistant director level. They don't have an excuse of saying, we didn't know we should -- this wasn't a mistake.
VAUSE: Let me put this to you. When the -- when the inspector general comes knocking, and there's an investigation, the inspector general is going to find something.
MOORE: Yes, but John, I worked with getting FISAs when I was working al-Qaeda for years and years, and -- and before we would take something to FISA, we all but sat down and got on our knees and swore that everything was -- was correct.
When you -- when you omit something like the person we're investigating for talking to Russians has been a source to another intelligence agency for years and giving information on those Russians he's talking to, when you omit something like that, that's not an error.
VAUSE: OK.
MOORE: At least it's -- it's not a simple error.
VAUSE: OK. Here's a quick recap of Trump insults and accusations directed at the FBI.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, it's a shame what's happened with the FBI.
It is very sad. When you look at those documents, and how they've done that is really, really disgraceful.
And our FBI have to start doing their job and doing it right, and doing it now. Because people are angry.
Have you seen what's happened at the FBI? They're all gone, but there's a lingering stench, and we're going to get rid of that, too.
This is somebody that said we have information on your opponent. Oh, let me call the FBI. Give me a break. Life doesn't work like that.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: The FBI director says that's what should happen.
TRUMP: The FBI director is wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: You know, as a former FBI guy, I imagine that's not easy to listen to. But I also imagine it's not easy to listen to, because when you read the report, there are parts there where the I.G. details how the FBI went above and beyond normal operational procedures, like when it came to confidential human source. The department guidelines that required approval from a first-level superior supervisor, although throughout this investigation, an FBI assistant director approved all operations with CHS.
[00:35:10]
MOORE: Right. And -- and as the son of an FBI agent and a 25-year FBI agent, yes, those are painful to hear.
I think, though, you have to make sure in the FBI, more than ever, that you are not even appearing giving the appearance of any type of being unbiased -- or of being biased.
If you have a referee in a game in some big match calling -- calling plays, and people can't understand why he's calling plays; and you find out later that he's a fan of one of the teams, it doesn't matter whether he was crooked or not. It gives an impression.
And so I think right now what's happening is the FBI, because they didn't follow these rules scrupulously, and I don't think it was all these three big teams. I think it was some lower-level people keeping it from these three big teams, because they wanted the FISA so bad. I think we -- we set ourselves up for unfair criticism and fair criticism.
VAUSE: The rules are there for a reason. Often, you don't know what the reason is, but it's there for a reason. And the one man who was on the receiving end of most of the anger from the president was the former director, James Comey. He spoke to CNN a few hours ago. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: When you heard what the report said, did you -- do you think this is vindication?
JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: It is. I mean, the FBI's had to wait two years while the president and his followers lied about the institution. Finally, the truth gets told. I hope it's not too late. But on all the important things, it tells the truth.
People have internalized the lies they've heard. Good people believe when a president says something. So they've heard treason. They've heard spying. They've heard informants in the campaign for two years. Are they going to pay attention now?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Any expanse on that point? In an op-ed for "The Washington Post," he writes, "The painful part is that millions of people -- good people believe what they heard. My 89-year-old mother-in-law, watching FOX News in her Iowa assisted living facility, became convinced I was going to jail. I repeatedly assured her there was zero percent chance of that. 'It's all made up,' I would tell her. But I couldn't say that -- because publicly because the investigation was not done yet. Like the others accused of treason by the president, I respected the process and cooperation with the inspector general" -- cooperated, rather, with the inspector general.
Talk to the damage which has been done here, not just the damage to the FBI, but the damage and the harm done to the people who work there. And it seems it was done for nothing more than a talking point on FOX News and a laugh and a cheer at a campaign rally.
MOORE: It's -- it's painful. You know, the agents -- 99 percent of the agents aren't at this airless level where we're talking about assistant directors investigating a presidential campaign. They're not there. They're investigating kidnaps -- kidnappings. They're investigating all sorts of things: terrorist attacks. And so they don't get involved at this point. But it is painful to hear this kind of criticism.
And it is also painful when they're -- when they follow, scrupulously, rules for FISA, and we see that people at the assistant director level are not following those same -- same rules.
So it's a double-edged sword. The people in the field are -- are hurting from the criticism, and at the same time, they're bothered that there seems to be a little bit of a double standard. How can they do that at headquarters, when we in the field would get fired for it?
VAUSE: Yes. We're out of time, Steve. But clearly, damage has been done. But it can be repaired. I guess, it's just a question of how long and how they fix it at this point.
But as always, good to see you. It's been a while. Thanks for coming in.
MOORE: It's good to see you.
VAUSE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Well, we'll take a short break here on CNN NEWSROOM. Back in a moment.
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VAUSE: U.N.'s top court will begin open hearings in a few hours on charges that Myanmar's military carried out genocide.
Hundreds of thousands of Rohingya Muslims fled the country in 2017 during a military crackdown which the U.N. called at the time, it was carried out with genocidal intent.
Myanmar's one-time champion of democracy and human rights, she'll testify in defense of those who are accused of genocide.
Rosemary Church reports.
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ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT/ANCHOR (voice-over): At the top court of the United Nations, a rare legal test unfolds. A Nobel Peace Prize laureate and former human rights icon fights accusations of genocide.
Myanmar's de facto leader, Aung San Suu Kyi, defending her country and its military. She leads a legal team denying allegations leveled by Gambia, charging Buddhist majority Myanmar with mass murder, rape, and destruction of minority Rohingya Muslim communities, in a brutal military operation one U.N. leader has described as likely tantamount to ethnic cleansing.
It's the first case of its kind in decades, initiated by Gambia's justice minister, who heard from Rohingyas now living in a refugee camp after fleeing the violence in their home country.
BA TAMBADOU, GAMBIAN JUSTICE MINISTER: I saw genocide written all over these stories. I have spent a decade of a half interacting with the victims of the 1994 Rwandan genocide. I could tell that these stories were very, very similar to the stories that I have heard in the past. And so I thought this was not right. Something has to be done about. CHURCH: Gambia's submissions cite United Nations investigators --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The greatest crimes under international law --
CHURCH: -- who found the 2017 actions of Myanmar's military to be genocide. Those investigators saying Aung San Suu Kyi's involvement was an open-ended question in a campaign that drove more than 700,000 Rohingyas from their home to neighboring Bangladesh, where they now watch this provisional trial unfold.
JAMALIDA BEGUM, ROHINGYA REFUGEE (through translator): We left Myanmar because the army tortures our mothers and sisters. Three military personnel raped me. They detained hundreds of our women and raped them in front of their children and husbands. We have been demanding justice for all of this.
GULFARAZ BEGUM, ROHINGYA REFUGEE (through translator): I have lost eight members of my family, including my sons and grandsons, who were all butchered by the military. I demand justice for these killings. I demand Aung San Suu Kyi's trial.
CHURCH: Aung San Suu Kyi has long denied any ethnic violence against the Rohingya and describes her government's actions as a legitimate response to terrorism.
She was once known for her resistance to the military junta, winning a Nobel Peace Prize in 1991, after 15 years spent under house arrest. But Suu Kyi has recently drawn ire from some human rights leaders, who say she has gone from being a voice for the oppressed to siding with the oppressors.
Rosemary Church, CNN.
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VAUSE: Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm John Vause. Stay with us. WORLD SPORT is next.
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