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Horowitz Testifies Before Senate Judiciary Committee; FAA Allowed Boeing 737 Max Despite Problems; Supreme Court Halts Federal Executions. Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired December 11, 2019 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[10:31:01]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: This is happening right now. It's a live look, an important hearing taking place in the Senate Judiciary Committee. This is the Justice Department's inspector general, Michael Horowitz. He's going to testify shortly before the committee. We're going to bring you his opening statement, live.
We should note that just yesterday when that report was released -- actually on Monday -- Horowitz concluded in his wide-ranging report that the FBI was justified to open the Russia investigation in 2016, and that there was no political bias in the opening of that investigation.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: It just couldn't have been more clear in the words that he used. The president, though, is continuing, despite that, to falsely claim otherwise. Listen to him at a rally last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have great people in the FBI, but not in leadership. You have not-good people in leadership.
The FBI also sent multiple undercover human spies to surveil and record people associated with our campaign. Look how they've hurt people. They've destroyed the lives of people that were great people, that are still great people. Their lives have been destroyed by scum.
HARLOW: Let's talk about all of this. Jessica Schneider is here, our justice correspondent, and Greg Brower, former U.S. attorney and former assistant director of the FBI's Office of Congressional Affairs.
I would just note, leadership at the FBI, a.k.a. Christopher Wray, hand-selected by the president. What is your reaction, as someone who has served, to the president describing members of the agency as scum?
GREG BROWER, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Well, Poppy, I guess I would say -- and I find myself saying this all the time -- it is stunning but not surprising. And most importantly, it's just plain wrong. It doesn't accurately reflect what the OIG found.
But, you know, once again, it's just over the top in terms of being inappropriate and unfair and any other number of adjectives you could use. It's just -- it's a further attempt to create a false narrative about what actually happened and what didn't happen, to suit the president's political purposes. And that's all it is.
SCIUTTO: Jessica Schneider, remarkable public airing of differences between the nonpartisan inspector general, Michael Horowitz, his report, and to have not just the sitting attorney general, Bill Barr, come out and say, hey, nice job but I disagree with you, but arguably more importantly, John Durham, the U.S. attorney that's been selected by Barr to look at this from a criminal perspective, saying, I disagree as well, but also noting that he has other resources he's looking into, specifically overseas sources of information here.
Do we know -- and I know some of this is reading tea leaves, but you cover this -- do we know that his investigation may or is likely to lead to criminal indictments? Is that where we're heading here?
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that it has become a criminal investigation, so he wields broader power because of that. We don't know a lot about what he's uncovered. We're understanding from Bill Barr's interview yesterday that we may get some more word in the spring or summer, but that's a long time away.
HARLOW: Right.
SCHNEIDER: And what we're really seeing here is this Republican onslaught of criticism, not just from the president there but you know, in the beginning of this hearing, the Senate Judiciary chairman, Lindsey Graham, really pressing the president's points -- it's really remarkable -- you know, asking, why wasn't the Trump campaign briefed about this? That's something that was addressed in the inspector general's report, saying that they didn't want to jeopardize this investigation --
HARLOW: Right.
SCHNEIDER: -- by tipping off anyone in the campaign and then, you know, Lindsey Graham, continuing to read those text messages --
HARLOW: Right.
SCHNEIDER: -- from Lisa Page and Peter Strzok. But again --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
SCHNEIDER: -- the bottom line from the I.G. is that there was no political bias that affected the opening of the investigation or the investigation itself.
HARLOW: Yes.
SCHNEIDER: So, you know, again, we have two different tracks here. The I.G. -- we'll hear from him in a minute --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
SCHNEIDER: -- then of course, Durham. And that's kind of a question mark. But you know, the president and the attorney general continue to say, we're going to see big things from this Durham report. We don't have details yet --
[10:35:02]
HARLOW: Well --
SCHNEIDER: -- but that's what they're -- that's what they're previewing.
HARLOW: -- I think -- I think Durham's less of a question mark now, given the statement that he put out, that they found other stuff that does not sit with what Horowitz is -- has said --
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: Or may have (ph) found. I mean --
SCHNEIDER: And he's faced criticism for that as well, for speaking out in the midst of this investigation.
HARLOW: That's true.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HARLOW: You --
SCIUTTO: Well, I just wanted to note because you had -- it's become a particularly -- a favorite talking point, Republicans reading those Page and Strzok texts. Interesting in the I.G. report, that they found and released other texts by other FBI agents involved that were celebrating Donald Trump's victory here.
I'll just read a couple here. On November 9th, the handling agent and co-case handling agent for human sources discussed the results of the election in an instant message.
Exchange that reads, "Trump," exclamation point.
"Hahaha. S-H-I-T just got real."
Another one, handling agent involved: "Yes it did."
I saw a lot of scared MFers" out there -- don't want to say what that stands for -- "[on my way to work] this morning. Start looking for new jobs fellas. Haha."
I mean, the point of this is that you've got a lot of folks in the FBI expressing political opinions, some critical of the president, some clearly favorable to the president. HARLOW: And, Greg, to the point that Jess made about Lindsey Graham
really echoing what the president has said and what Bill Barr said in that interview yesterday, if we could just play that sound and get your reaction to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): We know the Russians are messing in our election. And it was the Russians, ladies and gentlemen, who stole the Democratic National Committee e-mails, Podesta's e-mails and screwed around --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: I'm sorry. I think -- do we have the other?
SCIUTTO: We'll play that sound later. That's important as well, but Poppy had another -- another thought.
HARLOW: Do we have that other one, guys?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the defensive briefing issue?
HARLOW: OK, OK. I'm sorry about that, Greg. Just your reaction to Lindsey Graham and the complaint that Bill Barr made, saying they should have briefed the president on this sooner.
BROWER: Yes. Yes, sure. So this couldn't be more off-base. I was at the FBI at the time. As the OIG report indicates, the idea of potentially briefing the campaign about this apparent interference was --
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: Let's complete the Graham bite.
BROWER: -- discussed. The decision was to not brief the campaign for the obvious reason that at that time, the FBI did not know exactly who might be a subject of this new investigation. The president could be a subject, his senior campaign staff could be subjects.
And so it's basically just Investigations 101, that you don't brief potential subjects about the ongoing investigation. And that is clearly why it wasn't done. The OIG enquired, asked the FBI witnesses about that. And that's just a nonissue.
And so for -- and I heard a retired senior FBI official on this network earlier, suggest that that was a problem. You know, frankly, again, that's Investigations 101, that is a nonissue and I'm surprised that the senator would bring that up this morning.
SCIUTTO: Greg Brower, Jessica Schneider, thanks very much.
As we note here, these are live pictures from the Senate Judiciary Committee where the inspector general, Michael Horowitz, is testifying. We're going to bring you his comments, live. I just want to play --
HARLOW: Yes.
SCIUTTO: -- that sound bite for Senator Lindsey Graham, who is the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Just moments ago, on this question of whether Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election, something propagated by the president and his allies. Listen to this definitive comment on this from Graham.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM: We know the Russians are messing in our election. And it was the Russians, ladies and gentlemen, who stole the Democratic National Committee e-mails, Podesta's e-mails, and screwed around with Hillary Clinton. It wasn't the Ukrainians, it was the Russians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Notable comment there --
HARLOW: Yes.
SCIUTTO: -- something the president has differed with repeatedly.
[10:38:42]
Still to come this hour, a source telling CNN that the FAA knew that Boeing's 737 Max plane had serious problems. This, after the first deadly crash. But they didn't ground the plane, only after the second one. This comes as a Boeing whistleblower is on Capitol Hill right now, telling lawmakers that he raised concerns months earlier, concerns he says that could have saved lives.
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SCIUTTO: A whistleblower is testifying on Capitol Hill right now, telling lawmakers that he warned Boeing about problems with the 737 Max jets months before two deadly crashes that killed some 346 people.
HARLOW: This as CNN has learned from a source at the FAA, concluded after the first tragedy that the 737 Max was significantly more likely to crash than any other aircraft, but the FAA continued to allow the planes to fly and did not ground them until after that second fatal crash.
Let's go to our Rene Marsh. She joins us this morning from Washington. Wow, it's alarming. What more are you learning?
RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: It is. To put this very bluntly, this is another terrible day, not only for Boeing but for the FAA, particularly for the FAA. The head of the agency right now, as we speak, facing some tough questions from lawmakers on Capitol Hill, after a new document has surfaced this morning.
This document was just revealed at this hearing. It details the FAA's own internal analysis of this troubled plane, the Boeing 737 Max, following the Lion Air crash last fall. This analysis found that the plane is significantly more likely to crash than other aircraft. That's quite damning.
[10:45:00]
Despite those findings, the FAA did not ground the aircraft until after the second crash of the 737 Max, which was months later. If you remember, those two crashes claimed 346 lives.
So this document just released by the chairman of this hearing this morning. And I can tell you, this is what many people will be talking about after this hearing wraps up. He essentially said that the analysis concluded that if that MCAS system that we've talked so much about, that software on the plane, was left uncorrected, that that would result in as many as 15 future fatal crashes over the life of the fleet.
But here's the big caveat. That was assuming that 99 out of 100 flight crews successfully reacted to all of the alarms and alerts on the plane when things went wrong.
HARLOW: Jeez.
MARSH: We now know that pilots didn't know what to do, they didn't know how to react to all of those alarms. So it was a faulty assumption. And the bottom line is that the FAA knew that this was a troubled aircraft based on that internal analysis, but they did not ground that plane after that first crash.
This comes on top of those two whistleblowers we'll hear from today, from Boeing as well as an FAA whistleblower.
SCIUTTO: Listen, it's a different story than one of the first public explanations, both from the FAA and Boeing, which was that, well, foreign pilots, they couldn't quite --
HARLOW: Yes.
SCIUTTO: -- the jet here. I mean, these are just alarming findings, a systematic failure.
HARLOW: Rene, thank you. You've been on -- go ahead.
MARSH: No, it absolutely is. And to add to all of this, we just heard from the head of the agency today, saying that they will not clear this plane to fly this year.
HARLOW: Wow.
SCIUTTO: Wow.
MARSH: This will extend well into 2020.
HARLOW: OK.
SCIUTTO: That has enormous economic consequences as well. Safety first. Rene Marsh, thanks very much.
Keeping an eye on Capitol Hill, where the DOJ's inspector general will testify soon. These are live pictures, he's going to testify to lawmakers about his findings on the origins of the Russia investigation. We'll be on top of it, bringing that to you live when it starts.
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[10:51:43]
SCIUTTO: The Trump administration wants to restart executions by the federal government, this nearly two decades after courts stopped them, the hiatus due in part to the drug cocktail used for lethal injections deemed inhumane by some. Officials have since found another drug. But just last week, the Supreme Court once again put executions on hold.
HARLOW: This ruling, actually coming as a bit of a relief, comfort for some murder victims in Arkansas. They're trying to save the life of a white supremacist who took the lives of three of their family members. Our Sara Sidner explains why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Daniel Lewis Lee could become the first federal prisoner executed in 16 years.
SIDNER: How many people in your family did Daniel Lee kill?
KIMMA GUREL, VICTIM'S SISTER: My brother-in-law, my sister and my niece.
SIDNER: How much of a toll has this taken on you?
EARLENE PETERSON, VICTIM'S MOTHER: A lot, a lot. The whole backside of my heart is gone.
SIDNER (voice-over): Still, Kimma Gurel and her mother, Earlene Peterson, are pleading with President Trump to keep their family members' murderer alive.
SIDNER: Did you vote for President Trump?
PETERSON: Yes, I did.
SIDNER: Will you vote for him again?
PETERSON: Yes, I will.
SIDNER: So what would you like to say to him? Because you disagree on this point.
PETERSON: For one time in your life, lean (ph) to your inner self and know that this is wrong.
WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I jumped at the chance --
SIDNER (voice-over): The attorney general suddenly announced Lee's date with death along with four other federal prisoners in July, the move spurred on by President Trump's desire to resume and speed up the federal execution process. The A.G. said it would finally bring justice to victims of the most horrific crimes.
SIDNER: Do you think letting the government execute him will be final justice for you?
PETERSON: No, not at all. I don't think killing is going to cure killing.
SIDNER (voice-over): Lee and Chevie Kehoe were convicted in 1999 in a white supremacist plot to steal guns and money to help fund a white ethnostate in the Pacific Northwest. Prosecutors say to further their cause, they went to this home, then they robbed and murdered William Mueller, his wife, Nancy, and her 8-year-old daughter, Sarah.
SIDNER: Their bodies were found weighted down and tossed into this bayou. They had been shot with a stun gun, bound and suffocated with plastic bags secured over their heads with tape. In the end, the jury recommended life without parole for Kehoe, but death for Lee for the same crime.
You have no doubt that's guilty?
GUREL: Right.
SIDNER: Why are you fighting so hard to keep him alive?
GUREL: in this case, it just doesn't feel that justice was served, when Chevy Kehoe was the man that planned it.
SIDNER (voice-over): They say jury bias played a role. Lee, with his missing eye and swastika on his neck, looked the part. Kehoe did not. The prosecutor and trial judge called Kehoe the ringleader and agreed the sentence was arbitrary, Kehoe getting life while Lee received death.
RUTH FRIEDMAN, FEDERAL CAPITAL HABEAS PROJECT: In whose interest is it to execute this man when you have the victims, the lead prosecutor in the case, the judge who tried the case and oversaw the following -- the proceedings that followed it, why? They're all saying this should not go forward.
SIDNER (voice-over): But Lee has lost his latest appeal on the merits of his particular case. The thing now keeping him from lethal injection is the latest Supreme Court decision to temporarily halt all federal executions.
[10:55:11]
PETERSON: Could I inject him to die?
SIDNER: Could you? PETERSON: God, no. Then how can I put it on somebody else to do in my name?
SIDNER (voice-over): A family Lee made to suffer for the rest of their lives will continue their fight to let him live out the rest of his in prison.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SIDNER: Now, the family has no doubts, again, that Daniel Lewis Lee is guilty of murder. But they just think that the sentence he received was unfair, and they cannot stomach the idea of him being put to death by the government in their name.
Should also mention that the appeals court is now going through the process to see if the Trump administration's new policies are going to be legal -- Poppy.
SCIUTTO: Just a remarkable story. Sara Sidner, thanks very much.
HARLOW: I'm Poppy Harlow.
SCIUTTO: I'm Jim Sciutto. "AT THIS HOUR" will start right after this break.
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MICHAEL HOROWITZ, INSPECTOR GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE: -- 34- page report that we issued this week. I would encourage everybody to read the report, although I understand 400-plus page reports can be hard to get through. We do have a pithy -- I'll call it -- 19-page executive summary with it, which I'd encourage people to read at a minimum.
I want to commend also the tireless efforts of our outstanding review team for conducting such rigorous and effective independent oversight. It's exactly what we are supposed to do as inspectors general.
The FBI investigation that's the subject of this report, Crossfire Hurricane, was opened on July 31, 2016, days after the FBI received reporting from a friendly foreign government.
The reporting stated that in a May 2016 meeting with the friendly foreign government, Trump campaign foreign policy advisor George Papadopoulos suggested -- quote, "suggested the Trump team had received some kind of a suggestion," close quote, from Russia that it could assist in the election process with the anonymous release of information during the campaign that would be damaging to Candidate Clinton and then-President Obama. Following receipt of that information, the FBI opened Crossfire Hurricane.
Given the nature and sensitivity of such an investigation, we would have expected FBI personnel to faithfully adhere to the FBI's detailed policies, practices and norms. The FBI has developed and earned a reputation as one of the world's premier law enforcement agencies, in significant part because of its adherence to those policies and its tradition of professionalism, impartiality and nonpolitical enforcement of the law.
However, our review identified significant concerns with how certain aspects of the investigation were conducted and supervised, particularly the FBI's failure to adhere to its own standards of accuracy and completeness when filing applications with the Foreign Surveillance -- applications for Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act authority, known as FISA, to surveil Carter Page, a U.S. person who was connected to the Trump for President campaign.
We determined that the decision to open Crossfire Hurricane was made by the then-FBI Counterintelligence Division's assistant director Bill Priestap, and that his decision reflected a consensus reached after multiple days of discussions and meetings among senior FBI officials.
[11:00:00]
We reviewed department and FBI policies and concluded that Assistant Director Priestap's exercise of discretion in opening the investigation was in --
