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House Panel Advances Impeachment Articles Against Donald Trump; Rudy Giuliani Visits White House On Day Panel Passes Impeachment Articles; Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-IL) Talks About Vote On Whether To Impeach The President Next Week. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired December 13, 2019 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KATE BENNETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: This is one of those times where people want to hear from her.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Kate, thank you so much. Kate Bennett. And that is it for me. NEWSROOM with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.

[14:00:09]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Brianna, thank you. Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN on this Friday afternoon. Thank you for being here.

You know, today will be remembered as a monumental day, not only in the history of the Trump White House, but in the history of the United States of America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JERROLD NADLER (D-NY): Today is a solemn and sad day. For the third time in a little over a century and a half, the House Judiciary Committee has voted Articles of Impeachment against the President for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.

The House will act expeditiously. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: It took less than 30 minutes to record that consequential vote in the House Judiciary Committee today, but the 17 hours of debate over the two days leading up to it, fiery, partisan and at times quite personal, something you can clearly see right here on the faces of Chairman Jerry Nadler and the Committee's top Republican, Doug Collins.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DOUG COLLINS (R-GA): This is a just travesty and a sham from day one. I could talk until I'm blue in the face, but nobody on the majority cares.

REP. TED DEUTCH (D-FL): We invited the President of the United States to the December 4th hearing to advocate for his views, to submit requested witnesses, but he chose not to attend and he chose not to suggest any witnesses.

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): Article 1 in this resolution ignores the truth, it ignores the facts, it ignored -- it ignores what happened and what has been laid out for the American people over the last three weeks.

REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND (D-LA): If President Trump wanted to investigate corruption, he can start at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, look in the mirror or he can look around the cast of criminals that have been indicted from his circle.

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): I heard earlier, my friend from California, Mr. Swalwell say, like list out all these crimes. And so if I'm watching at home, I'm thinking, well, where are they in the impeachment? That is just a Democratic drive-by to go and list crimes that you don't allege and that you don't have evidence for.

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Forget about President Trump. Is any one of my colleagues willing to say that it is ever OK for a President of the United States of America to invite foreign interference in our elections? Not a single one of you has said that so far.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll say --

JAYAPAL: I yield --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's start with Phil Mattingly. He is our CNN congressional correspondent who has been covering this thing around the clock. All right, so Phil, now we go from the 41-member Judiciary Committee to the full House. Tell us what happens next and when?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think probably most importantly, the 41 members of the Judiciary Committee could probably use some time away from one another over the course of this weekend and I'm sure that's going to occur.

Let's kind of walk through what happens next. Obviously, the Judiciary Committee voting to approve the two Articles of Impeachment today, essentially kicks it into gear for the House floor and for the full House to vote on those amendments -- or on those Articles.

How this is going to work going forward? On Tuesday, there will be a meeting of what's called the Rules Committee. Why is that so important? We know what's going to happen. It's going to end up on the House floor.

But it's in the Rules Committee where you will get a sense of the actual debate. How long the debate is going to be? How the debate is going to be divided through each side? Maybe get some idea of who is actually going to be speaking during that floor debate -- the lead up to that final vote. It is going to be really crucial, kind of how this all plays out, how this is dictated and how this is structured.

We expect right now, though it hasn't officially been announced yet that on Wednesday, there will be a full House floor vote on the two Articles of Impeachment.

The other thing to watch here is Democrats who haven't yet declared where they're going to vote and how they're going to vote. We know Democrats have the votes for this. Leadership is confident in that, but we also know there are several Democrats who haven't come out in favor of either or both of the Articles of Impeachment yet.

So we're keeping an eye on those Democrats, those frontline Democrats, those Democrats, Brooke, that is, you know, well, are probably wary of getting to this point given what they ran on, and often won on in 2018. So we'll see where they end up.

The other kind of parlor game going on in Washington, D.C. right now is kind of a side piece of all of this. And that is, who are the House managers going to be for this Senate trial? There's a lot of battling and jockeying going on between kind of the suspects you would expect, who could be selected by Speaker Pelosi to present this case as a manager in the United States Senate.

We don't have a firm idea of who that's going to be yet, but that will also be something to keep an eye on. Bottom line here, though is Brooke, probably by the end of Wednesday, the House of Representatives will have voted to impeach Donald Trump. It will be the third time in the history of the United States.

BALDWIN: All right, Wednesday is the day. We'll be watching you. We'll will be watching of course, the activity on Capitol Hill. Phil, thank you so much.

So that's one part of Washington. The other story of course is the White House. The White House is wasting no time ripping the House Judiciary proceedings today as a quote-unquote "desperate charade" while saying the President looks forward to due process in the Senate trial.

[14:05:06]

BALDWIN: And just a reminder that the White House was invited, but declined to participate in the House Judiciary hearings and that several key players -- Mick Mulvaney, Mike Pompeo, Rick Perry -- were either blocked or refused to testify to Congress. And so here is how the President has reacted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a scam. It's something that shouldn't be allowed and it's a very bad thing for our country and you're trivializing impeachment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Chris Cillizza is our CNN politics reporter and editor-at- large and you know, that is what, Chris, that's what the President is saying before the cameras.

You also have been scrolling and scrolling and scrolling through his Twitter feed. Tell me how busy he has been over the last couple of days.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER AND EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Yes, we could add a bunch more scrolling into that, Brooke, right? This number is -- take a minute here. Over the last -- yesterday, just yesterday, 124 tweets or retweets by the President. He said in that same availability that you played footage from. He said he had watched a lot of the House impeachment hearings. That number would suggest he has.

And this is the most he has ever -- the most active he has ever been on Twitter in a single day. The previous record was 105. I would just ask you, imagine any person who has just a regular day job sending out 124 tweets or retweets.

I tweet a lot, and I don't think I've ever gone over a hundred. This is the President of the United States at 124, which shows you, despite, I think the public is going to be fine. I'm not worried about it. It could be a long trial. It could be a short trial. So if --

It's clearly on his mind, right? His Twitter feed is, I always say, the best window into understanding what this President is thinking at any one minute.

BALDWIN: Yes, no, it's a tell.

CILLIZZA: Yes.

BALDWIN: And we also, as we have had reporting from the White House, you know, he doesn't want to be part of that exclusive club of Presidents who've been impeached.

You also today, Chris Cillizza have written about how President Trump is making history not in the way that he had hoped.

CILLIZZA: Yes.

BALDWIN: Explain what you mean.

CILLIZZA: Well, to your point about he doesn't want to be part of an exclusive club, well, he is now part of an exclusive club. I know that we all knew that this was going -- these two Articles of Impeachment are going to be approved by the House Judiciary Committee. Right?

BALDWIN: Yes.

CILLIZZA: But that doesn't -- let's not lose the historic facts here. OK, so this is what you're looking at. These are Articles of Impeachment announced against these folks.

Now, Andrew Johnson here and Bill Clinton here -- both impeached by the house and acquitted by the Senate. Nixon -- he resigns before a full House vote although the Articles of Impeachment did pass out of the Judiciary Committee as they did today. Johnson, actually just went straight to the floor. Now Trump's name is in this list. He is a historical figure whether

he likes it or not for this, no matter what happens next. And I'll remind people, look, yes, I know because of the closeness of these two dates, closed-ishness, 21 years. There's a tendency to assume, well, that's all we do know.

It isn't. There's only been four ever. Now, it might be different going forward. But no matter what happens, Phil just said, Wednesday, obviously the House is going to vote to impeach him. They have the Democratic majority.

BALDWIN: Yes.

CILLIZZA: No matter what happens in the Senate, and I assume he winds up like here and here, Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton were impeached by the House, not acquitted and not removed by the Senate.

BALDWIN: Acquitted by the Senate. Yes.

CILLIZZA: No matter what happens, my kids when they're studying history going forward, this is going to be the quartet of people. It was three until today.

And I think it's really important not to lose that amid all the back and forth, all of the spin. This is history, and its history that you can't just go back and repeal it later. It's history that is now written, for better or worse for Donald Trump and for Democrats.

BALDWIN: Yes, it has happened. Full stop. Chris, thank you so much.

CILLIZZA: Yes.

BALDWIN: And you know, Chris talked about the scrolling and the scrolling of all the tweets. There was another -- there was a visitor at the White House we also need to talk about here.

Francesca Chambers is the White House correspondent from McClatchy D.C. Gloria Borger is CNN's chief political analyst. And so ladies, let's talk about this other factor in the day's news.

Rudy Giuliani -- Giuliani, President Trump's personal attorney made this trip to the White House today. Here he was just this morning before that important House Judiciary Committee vote.

And Giuliani's visit comes as "The Wall Street Journal" is reporting the following on his recent trip to Ukraine. Here's a quote from the paper, "When he returned to New York on Saturday, the President called him as his plane was still taxiing down the runway, Mr. Giuliani said, 'What did you get?' Mr. Trump asked. 'More than you can imagine.' Mr. Giuliani replied. He is putting his findings in a 20-page report."

So Francesca, you know, despite as Chris just solidified, like this historic impeachment over the exact same thing Rudy Giuliani is doing right now. This behavior continues. It's flagrant. It's in plain sight. What do you make of this? FRANCESCA CHAMBERS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, MCCLATCHY D.C.: The

President was really clear when he spoke to reporters today, Brooke that because he believes he didn't do anything wrong and because no matter what happens in the House of Representatives, in the Senate where Republicans control it, they believe that he will come out of this without, you know, being convicted in the Senate.

[14:10:15]

CHAMBERS: What reason is there in his mind for him to change his behavior? Why shouldn't we have Rudy Giuliani over? What will ultimately happen to the President? And I mean, the answer to that, obviously, will be in November of next year, if he's not removed from office, that it will be up to voters to decide.

But the White House feels very confident that he will win that election, too. And that House members who vote for impeachment in districts that the President won could lose their seats and Republicans could even take back the House.

BALDWIN: Again, Gloria, the question, you know, Trump's like, what did you find? You know, as Giuliani strolls into the White House on the very day House Judiciary is voting on his impeachment. What say you?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: It's completely bizarre, and if I were the President's attorneys or some of his chief defenders, I'd be quite nervous right now, because the President could conceivably -- let's just play this out a little bit -- the President could conceivably get this so-called 20 page report and say, you know, this is really important stuff, and I want to talk about it at my Senate trial.

I wanted -- I want the public to know more about this, which we all know are baseless, debunked conspiracy theories that have been promulgated by basically corrupt people.

And so if the President says, yes, you know, Joe Biden did this. His son, Hunter Biden did this and I want to put this into the record. Well, do you do it at the trial? Where do you -- how do you do that? Does the President just announce it? And what do his lawyers do?

It's a problem for them. And remember, there's been reporting that the Attorney General whom as we know, is pretty close to Donald Trump has said to Trump, Giuliani is trouble. Stay away from him. He is not good. Well, he's not staying away.

BALDWIN: Well, he went over to the White House today.

BORGER: Yes.

BALDWIN: Francesca, tell us, we know how the President is projecting outwardly in front of cameras. Confidence, bring it on. What -- tell us more about what you're hearing about his mindset behind closed doors? CHAMBERS: Well, there's a real question right now about who is in

control of this Senate trial, right? The White House aides have tried to put it on Mitch McConnell and say, well, he'll make the decision about who is going to have the -- whether there's going to be live witnesses, right?

But then last night, Mitch McConnell was like, oh, no, no. This is going to be the President's lawyers who will make the decision. And then we heard from President Trump today who said, you know, I'll do whatever I want.

Then he of course said, well, it'll be up to Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell, but I think there was a key quote, "I will do whatever I want." And so what he wants now is the question, does he want to have a parade of live witnesses? Does he still want Joe and Hunter Biden to testify? And is that something that Lindsey Graham is going to give him?

And if he is not, who is going to tell the President he can't have those things? And that's what we've been exploring.

BALDWIN: OK. Huge question marks around what the Senate trial looks like. I want to play it even more forward, Gloria with you, because I'm wondering about a post impeached and probably acquitted Donald Trump.

Today at that, you know, when he was speaking in front of the cameras, we heard the President say, you know, he threatened payback, Gloria. So what would that President Trump look like? Angry? Vengeful? Perhaps emboldened?

BORGER: First of all, I think he'll come out and say he is completely vindicated and that they tried to get him -- the Democrats -- meaning they. They tried to get him. They didn't, because he is completely innocent, and that the Senate did not convict him.

And so, as Chris Cillizza pointed out, yes, he is going to be among those mug shots of people who have been impeached, Presidents who have been impeached, but he is going to say the Deep State tried to get me and in the end, they failed. So he'll use it to his advantage.

Now, on the question of payback, you know, Donald Trump, what do you think? I think Donald Trump is keeping his Republicans in line. I think in many ways, because many of them are afraid of him with this upcoming election, and if he decides to payback the Democrats, the question is, could that hurt him? Could that boomerang on him in terms of policy, for example? We'll just -- we'll just have to see.

BALDWIN: Right. We saw what happened with the election in the post Clinton impeachment.

BORGER: Yes. Sure.

BALDWIN: Those are big questions that we will all be discovering down the road.

BORGER: Exactly.

BALDWIN: For now, historic day. The House Judiciary voted to impeach and next Wednesday is the big day. Gloria and Francesca, ladies, thank you both very much.

BORGER: Sure.

BALDWIN: Democrats are raising concerns about the Senate impeachment trial as well. Can the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell run a fair and impartial trial while working hand-in-hand with the White House? We'll talk to Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi.

Plus, the White House wants to keep you from finding out what the President says on calls -- phone calls -- with foreign leaders. We will tell you about the action they're taking right now.

[14:15:01]

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. All right, so now that the House Judiciary Committee has passed those two Articles of Impeachment against the President, next step is the full House vote next week.

[14:20:05]

BALDWIN: And then if that passes with the Democratic majority, an impeachment trial for removal begins in the Senate in January. But Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell says that he has already met with White House lawyers and he says they have all agreed to coordinate on a strategy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): Everything I do during this, I'm coordinating with the White House counsel. We will be working through this process, hopefully in a fairly short period of time in total coordination with the White House Counsel's Office and the people who are representing the President and as well as the Senate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Democratic Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi sits in the House Intelligence and Oversight Committees and he will be casting his vote on whether to impeach the President next week. So Congressman Krishnamoorthi, welcome back. Nice to have you on.

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: So not only are you a Congressman, you are a lawyer. So when you hear Leader McConnell saying, yes, I'm coordinating with the White House counsel on all of this. What's your reaction to that? KRISHNAMOORTHI: I think that violates our separation of powers. I

think that the Senate should be devising its own procedures. He should be coordinating with Chuck Schumer, the Minority Leader.

And at the end of the day, Mitch McConnell is a juror. And so for the juror to be coordinating with the defense counsel doesn't make any sense. And I hope -- I hold that hope that he does end up devising procedures with Chuck Schumer that are fair and that allow for both sides to present their cases in full.

BALDWIN: Do you think McConnell should recuse himself because of this?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I wouldn't go that far. I think that at this point, you know, I think that the Senate Majority Leader should do everything he can to work with the Minority Leader to devise a fair process and you know, the Chief Justice at the end of the day presides over this particular trial and it is incumbent on him to also make sure that the procedures are fair.

BALDWIN: Given what we're hearing from senators, they will likely acquit the President and so this worry is that now impeachment is just becoming another partisan ritual.

Congressman, how concerned are you that impeachment just isn't as effective as our Founding Fathers intended?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, you know, hopefully the senators, if this goes to a trial, look to the Constitution and their conscience and put country over party and politics. This is one of the most serious duties that they have to fulfill.

And, quite frankly, it is a somber time in our country when we have to even deal with this particular issue. But Brooke, I was a part of the Impeachment Inquiry.

BALDWIN: But what if they don't, Congressman? What if they don't?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, I think that at the end of the day, the voters will hold them accountable as well, and I think that it's up to us. If this goes to a trial, the House will present its case and I think that the senators will have to vote their conscience and voters will have to watch the proceedings and make sure that they are also informed about what happens.

BALDWIN: But the Congressman Krishnamoorthi, when you look back in the not so distant past, and you think about the Mueller investigation and how it ended with the Special Counsel, you know, sitting there warning that Russia is already interfering with our next election and then the very next day, Trump had that phone call with President Zelensky of Ukraine, you know, ask him for that favor.

Play it forward. When he is acquitted, he is already threatening payback. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: It's a scam. It's something that shouldn't be allowed. And

it's a very bad thing for our country, and you're trivializing impeachment.

And I tell you what, someday there'll be a Democratic President and there will be a Republican House, and I suspect they're going to remember it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Just Congressman, your thoughts on what the President has said. He talks about payback. What do you fear the most about a post impeached Trump?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, look, we're not there yet. We have to first vote next week and then it goes to a Senate trial and we'll see what happens.

That being said -- and after that, there's also an election. And, you know, we, in Congress have to always remember that we need to hold the Executive in check and conduct oversight accordingly. And I think that going forward, I don't want to speculate on what he may or may not do. But we have to fulfill our constitutional duty -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: I hear you. I guess, I just keep thinking, what about the consequences? I mean, let's say like -- you're a dad, right? You have what? Three kids, Congressman? Is it three now?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: That's right.

BALDWIN: So you have, you know --

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Yes. I have a teenager and a toddler, I'm ready for Congress.

[14:25:03]

BALDWIN: So, let's say, you know, when your kids are really old enough to appreciate the role that you're playing here as this first- term Congressman, you know, impeaching the President of the United States and the lesson at the end of the day, is that Trump did X, Y, & Z and yet there are no consequences.

I hear you on ultimately, it's up to the American voter. But you know, when you think of what's happening on Capitol Hill, there could be no consequences. What is the lesson you want your kids to take from this?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I personally think that, you know, being the third President potentially impeached is a strong warning sign to future Presidents.

Imagine what would happen if we did not do this? I mean, this conduct -- there was so much evidence, it was overwhelming, Brooke, with regard to the wrongdoing that was committed, and it was the type of wrongdoing that the framers of the Constitution and the founders of this country anticipated would be impeached -- impeachable -- and it would be subject to the procedures we're going through right now.

If we did not do anything, I think that would send the absolute wrong message to future Presidents, and we have to do what we have to do right now. I think this is extremely important. It's not something that anybody is taking lightly. It's a somber time, quite frankly. But it's a vote that unfortunately we have to take.

BALDWIN: Last question for you, Congressman Krishnamoorthi, and that is when you think ahead to the Senate trial, will you be an impeachment floor manager?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, Nancy Pelosi has done a great job of arranging the proceedings up to this point and she will select the impeachment managers.

I think quite frankly, she is going to select a team that is very knowledgeable about the facts of the case and will bring credit to the House.

BALDWIN: Has she approached you?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I don't want to talk about this, I think, at this point.

BALDWIN: OK.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: She is -- she is conducting the process in her own way.

BALDWIN: OK, I got you. We will follow up with you when a bit of time has passed. I got it. I had to ask. Congressman Krishnamoorthi, thank you so much. Good to have you on.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you. President Trump is taking action after the whistleblower's complaint that led to today's impeachment vote. Who was allowed to be on the phone when he talks to foreign leaders?

And breaking news out of New York City, an arrest in the stabbing of a college student just blocks from her school. We will talk to a former colleague about this young talented woman who was killed.

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