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China Trade Negotiations; Republican Senate Leader to Coordinate With White House on Impeachment Trial; Judiciary Committee Votes For Impeachment Articles Against President Trump. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 13, 2019 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:01]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

When he was elected the 45th president of the United States, Donald trump became the latest member of a pretty exclusive club. And he is now poised to join another one, U.S. presidents who have been impeached.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JERROLD NADLER (D-NY): Today is a solemn and sad day.

For the third time in a little over a century-and-a-half, the House Judiciary Committee has voted articles of impeachment against the president for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.

The House will act expeditiously.

Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The House Judiciary Committee voting to advance articles of impeachment for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress to the full House.

Manu Raju is CNN senior congressional correspondent.

Manu, so there's the Judiciary Committee had its say, right along party lines. No surprise. Shall we just expect more of the same come next Wednesday?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's going to be a fiery debate that's going to take place on the House floor when that does happen on Wednesday.

And it will reflect what we have heard over the last several days in the House Judiciary Committee, a very bitterly divided House expected to vote ultimately to approve these two articles, making the president of third to get impeached by the House in American history. That will happen by Wednesday. There are some questions about how those votes ultimately will come down in terms of the ultimate vote count, because there are Democrats, particularly ones that came from swing districts, Trump districts, people who are freshman members in particular, who told me over the last several days they are still weighing the decision, weighing how to vote.

They're going to hear reaction from voters back home over the weekend before they ultimately decide what to do. Republicans, however, are on -- in lockstep with the president. We're not expecting any Republican defections right now.

And a number of them are still defending the president even on the basic ask that the president made to President Zelensky of Ukraine asking for an investigation into his political rivals.

Now, earlier today, I had a chance to ask one of those Republicans, Debbie Lesko, who sits on the House Judiciary Committee, about the president's ask of Joe Biden -- of Zelensky to investigate the Bidens and whether or not that was appropriate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Why is it ever OK for an American president to ask a foreign power to investigate rival? Why do you think that's OK?

REP. DEBBIE LESKO (R-AZ): He didn't. He didn't do that.

RAJU: He did ask Zelensky.

(CROSSTALK)

LESKO: No. He did not do that.

RAJU: He asked President Zelensky to investigate Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden. Why is that OK?

LESKO: That was because, I think, logically, more likely than the Democrat story, is because he wanted to vet out the corruption.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So I asked her about the corruption. Well, the president didn't mention corruption on that phone call. She didn't respond to that question.

Also, of course, the president did in fact to ask President Zelensky of Ukraine to investigate the Bidens. She said he did not do that. That is certainly not the case, if you look at the rough transcript that the White House itself put out.

But, nevertheless, you're hearing the Republicans offer a full- throated defense of the president's actions, and you can expect that to play out in the coming days, as we expect total Republican unity voting against those articles of impeachment next week -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Get your rest this weekend. You got a big week coming up next week as well. Manu, thank you very much.

The president lashed out at Democrats and the entire impeachment process in the wake of today's Judiciary Committee vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a scam. It's something that shouldn't be allowed. And it's a very bad thing for our country.

And you're trivializing impeachment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Michael Smerconish is the host of CNN's "SMERCONISH."

And it's always awesome to get to talk to you.

And can we just dive in on just underscoring how historic these events are? President Trump is now the third president in just the last 45 years to face impeachment. Before Nixon, Michael, it had been only used once in nearly 200 years.

So, my question to kick this off with you is, is this becoming the new normal in a polarized America?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Right.

I mean, third in my lifetime. I wasn't paying close attention when we went through it with Nixon, but the third in my lifetime. And so the argument that the president would make is, hey, we're normalizing this. We're making it so easy. There's nothing here that warrants my being impeached.

The response, however, is to say, wait a minute, if the conduct meets the description that was put forth by the founding fathers, then members of Congress are derelict in their duty not to pursue it, even if it seems a fait accompli in a Senate trial that he won't be found guilty.

So therein lies the dichotomy. What I find a little bit frustrating is that I think Americans have tuned this out to some degree. I take note of that new Marquette survey in Wisconsin that says 52 percent don't want to see him impeached.

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And I wonder if they are just putting this in the category of yet more partisan bickering, each side suiting up in their usual jersey. And so people are gravitating toward whether they're Republican, whether they're Democrat, whether they like the president or whether they dislike him, instead of scrutinizing the conduct.

BALDWIN: Well, to your point about it being a fait accompli, I mean, Americans also know he will be acquitted, and thus he will face no consequences. So what's the remedy? How do we fix that? SMERCONISH: Well, the remedy I think is bigger than this impeachment

process.

The remedy -- I will explain it, I think this way. I was watching last night's debate on CNN with my wife. And she said to me, I found it -- I find it unusual that no one steps out of their party.

All the Republicans see it one way. All of the Democrats see it a different way. How in the world can people line up so diametrically opposed? And my response is to say they're playing for different audiences. It's all the primary basis for each of these parties and self-preservation.

I hate to say it and be so cynical, but I think some of these members are looking at, how do I stay here for another term?

BALDWIN: Yes. And as they are, you're precisely right, thinking about, all right, well, how do I get reelected, I'm wondering, obviously, Donald Trump wants to get reelected.

SMERCONISH: Right.

BALDWIN: So if you play it forward and assume he's impeached next week, he's not removed by the Senate, today, when you watch Trump, he threatened payback in that post-impeachment era.

How do you think he will behave then?

SMERCONISH: I think exactly how he will behave. He will have a sound bite. It'll probably be, I told you no quid pro quo.

And in the same way that he repeated the mantra of no collusion, no obstruction post-Mueller, that will be the same playbook. And in about the third week of January, I think you will hear that from him.

He will hope that it emboldens him heading into the 2020 cycle as Americans begin to vote, and I guess the Democratic response will be, look, even if the Senate doesn't go along with it, we have now created a record. We hope it seeps into the conscious of voters and that they keep this in mind when they vote in November.

BALDWIN: Right.

That's exactly what a Democratic congressman just told me, how he how he's seeing it going into the vote next Wednesday.

What about Rudy Giuliani, Michael, the fact that he was back at the White House today on this day of all days? Just when you look at this picture, I mean, it just shows they don't care. And it's the very thing that Trump's being impeached over, right, I mean, they're technically still doing.

This is what Rudy Giuliani tweeted: "The American people have made up their mind on this #impeachmentscam. This is a smokescreen for the Obama-Biden administration's corruption. It will be proven."

All right? So let's say Joe Biden is not the Democratic nominee. Does this Ukraine push by the Trump White House continue?

SMERCONISH: I think that the lawyers, the full-time lawyers, Pat Cipollone and others who are around the president, are probably a bit frustrated -- this is my hunch, but I pay close attention -- the extent to which Mayor Giuliani has the president's ear, because the president is a receptive audience for those conspiracy-like theories.

And then, using his Twitter account or his access to the airwaves, he's inclined to often to spread them. I just don't think that, unless Rudy found something in Ukraine that's new, I don't think that they're grounded in fact.

BALDWIN: Michael Smerconish, thank you so much.

SMERCONISH: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: We watch you Saturday mornings right here 9:00 a.m. Eastern here on CNN.

SMERCONISH: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

President Trump is also saying today he doesn't mind if his impeachment trial is long or short.

But we do know that the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, is consulting White House lawyers on how it should all play out. And Democrats, by the way, say that's unconstitutional.

Plus, CNN has learned that the White House is restricting who can listen in on the president's calls with foreign leaders in the wake of this whole Ukraine controversy. We have that news for you.

And just into us: The White House is responding to criticism that the first lady didn't condemn President Trump's personal attacks on a 16- year-old climate activist -- why they say she is fair game.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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BALDWIN: We're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

As the next step in the impeachment case against President Trump moves to a full House vote next week, the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, is preparing for the Senate trial in January.

And so he's telling FOX News that he is preparing this full acquittal of the president. He's even coordinating with the White House counsel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): Everything I do during this, I'm coordinating with White House counsel. We will be working through this process, hopefully in a fairly short period of time, in total coordination with the White House Counsel's Office and the people who are representing the president in the well of the Senate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Today, some Democrats are outraged with that by McConnell saying he's choosing the president over his constitutional duties.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): That is a complete surrender of the constitutional duties and prerogatives of the Senate, essentially turning them over to the White House.

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Let's hope that there's sufficient clamor within the Senate and within the country to make him rethink this idea of coordinating strategy with the defendant in the case. The president is essentially a constitutional defendant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's discuss with two of my favorite people.

Ana Navarro is a CNN political commentator. And CNN contributor Frank Bruni is a columnist for "The New York Times."

And so, Frank Bruni, let me start with you, because I want to ask you about McConnell coordinating with the White House. But also, when you were listening to the president earlier today, he was like, I'm going to do whatever I want. And then he named-checked Senator Graham and Leader McConnell. And he says, I'm going to do whatever they want.

So that's the one thought bubble for you. The other is the fact that Leader McConnell says he is cooperating -- or coordinating with the White House counsel.

What is your reaction?

(CROSSTALK)

FRANK BRUNI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: And I'm not surprised at all. I think that's inevitable in this partisan moment.

I think it would be the same, by the way, if the parties were reversed.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BRUNI: We have said a million times during this whole process that impeachment is not really illegal process. It's not a criminal process. It's a political process. This is a perfect illustration of that. The Senate is not being

turned into a court of law. It's not being turned into a conventional courtroom. It's a political theater.

And the perfect illustration of that is that you have Mitch McConnell, who in a different kind of construct, would be the jury foreman, actually coordinating with the defendant, because this is a political theater and a political process.

BALDWIN: What do you think of how this is playing out?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Look, I think it's obvious that that's how it's played out in the House as well.

But it does take a lot of chutzpah to say it out loud, to not even try to pretend to have any sort of independence and do your constitutional duty and have co-equal branches of government that respect each other.

I mean, it's amazing to me that we have gotten to the point where there's not even an attempt to hide the obvious, right? Look, how do I see it? I think Mitch McConnell is a guy who's going to try to control the process. We have seen it, I think, get a little out of hand in the House.

Yesterday, when I turned on the TV, after three Christmas parties at 10:00 at night and saw that thing still going on, it's almost like Republicans have decided to make us forget the facts by putting us all into an impeachment-induced coma, out of the tediousness that this process became.

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: And I don't think you're going to see that level of spectacle in the sentiment.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you about that, because she had you...

(CROSSTALK)

BRUNI: I was way too angry to fall into a coma.

When you have people, Representative Gaetz, doing what he did with the way he brought up Hunter Biden, I mean, that to me is an illustration of just how low we've gone.

NAVARRO: Yes, but that was in the morning.

I was capable of full outrage in the morning. By 10:30 at night, my eyes were glazed over and it was like that Charlie Brown and the classroom.

(CROSSTALK)

BRUNI: Well, my blood was still boiling.

But the thing I think that hasn't been said often enough about what we saw yesterday, which was gross and ugly, they don't even believe everything they're saying. They were playing to an audience, and that audience is Donald Trump.

Donald Trump tweeted or retweeted, what was it...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: One hundred and twenty-four.

(CROSSTALK)

BRUNI: ... yesterday for a reason. That was a way of telling all those Republicans, I'm watching. I'm engaged. I care. Don't you dare do anything less than a full defense of me.

BALDWIN: But so what happens on the Senate side?

Because you have the McConnell -- and we talk about decorum in the Senate and how they want it to be quick, powerful and then keep him in office, vs. President Trump has threatened this spectacle and the theater and dragging these witnesses in, in person, which -- where's your money?

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: You know what? Careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.

The worst thing that could happen to Donald Trump is for some of those witnesses to be dragged in, in person. You want Rudy Giuliani, who's proven himself to be completely unhinged on TV interviews and this network, to go and testify in front of Congress?

Please, yes, give us that spectacle, why don't you, because it's going to wind up being a very bad thing for you. Look, I do think it's going to be a quick process. It's going to be a distracting process. I don't think you're going to be seeing the auditions for best supporting actor in a drama that we have seen come out of the GOP in the House.

And I do hope that we don't have moments like what Frank alluded to with Matt Gaetz yesterday, which I thought was a very shameful moment, and particularly hypocritical that he brings up Hunter Biden's substance abuse, when there are 20-foot-by-10-foot billboards all over Florida with his face and the DUI arrest that he had.

(LAUGHTER)

NAVARRO: And, look, no, I actually don't say that's funny, because, in my family, there's been substance abuse. And I think in most American families right now, there's been substance abuse.

And it is something that makes the entire family suffer. There's a hell of a lot of families this Christmas that are going to be missing a family member that's either missing somewhere or that's been buried because of substance abuse. So how dare you? How dare you pick on that? And how dare you make

light of that? And how dare you bring that up, particularly given, as the congressman from Georgia said, the fact that pot, don't call the kettle black?

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I appreciate you saying that. And I think you said it perfectly in just saying it was gross. It was gross.

BRUNI: It was.

NAVARRO: Just when you think they can't go lower, they win the limbo contest.

BALDWIN: Well...

BRUNI: And we're not done. And we're not done yet.

BALDWIN: That's my -- my last question is, your paper -- I was reading Peter Baker, Maggie Haberman, all the color about what to expect in a post-impeached non-removed President Trump.

And the quote was: "What Mr. Trump's advisers worry about is the snapback of his anger once the impeachment process is over. They predict he will be furious and looking for payback."

To both of you, finally, like, what does that look like?

BRUNI: Well, I don't have what it looks like but it is something we should all be braced for.

He -- of all of his delusions, I think none is more powerful than his delusion that he's a martyr, and that he's persecuted. And he's convinced himself of that. And this impeachment process has in his mind validated that for him.

So, yes, I think you're going to see Trump unplugged, and we thought he was unplugged already right? I mean, so I don't know. I mean, fasten your seat belt.

NAVARRO: I don't even know what that means. I mean, if 123 tweets in one day is not unplugged, God help us with what unplugged means.

BRUNI: How do you get the nation's business done if you're tweeting 120 times?

NAVARRO: Well, that might be the good thing about impeachment, that he's so preoccupied watching the process that he's not doing hurtful things for the nation.

Maybe if he's preoccupied tweeting about impeachment, he won't be tweeting against a 16-year-old who just won the "TIME" cover.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: We're getting to that.

BRUNI: Do you think it's odd that the most powerful person on the planet gets into a Twitter spat with a 16-year-old? Gee.

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: Not when he's got the emotional maturity of a 4-year-old.

(CROSSTALK)

BRUNI: That's the Trump presidency in a nutshell.

BALDWIN: These two available for your next holiday party.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: Frank Bruni and Ana Navarro, no, seriously, I appreciate every single bit of that.

NAVARRO: Well, he just said he can't cook. So, we got that.

BALDWIN: We got that.

BRUNI: I can't cook for 20 people. I didn't say I can't cook.

NAVARRO: Oh, OK.

BALDWIN: We will continue this in the commercial break.

Guys, I appreciate you. I -- can we just have them every day, please?

Coming up -- thank you both very much.

NAVARRO: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next: President Trump congratulating the U.K. prime minister for a landslide win in elections there. We will talk about why this may make some 2020 Democrats nervous.

And she was outraged when her son's name came up in the impeachment hearings, so how does the first lady explain her husband's personal attacks against a 16-year-old girl, as Frank was just alluding to? We will share the just-released statement next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:27:20]

BALDWIN: Barely two days before new tariffs were set to kick in against China, President Trump tweeting he has reached -- quote -- "phase one" of a trade deal with Beijing and slamming the brakes on Sunday's round of planned tariffs.

At the White House this morning, the president also predicting Beijing will buy $50 billion worth of farm goods.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think, in agriculture, they will hit $50 billion.

QUESTION: Next year or when?

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Pretty soon. They have already stepped it up. My deal with them was -- two months ago, we had it in pretty good form. I said, do me a favor. Start buying agriculture. And they started. If you look, I mean, they're already buying. Even before the deal is signed, they're buying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Farmers have been hit especially hard by these tariffs, but it's still uncertain if this really is the beginning of the end for the now-19-month tariff war between the world's two biggest economies.

Cristina Alesci is CNN's politics and business correspondent.

And I heard you say this. The phase one trade deal is like a Band- Aid.

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN POLITICS AND BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, because it doesn't address the underlying issues.

What this deal does is essentially avert a crisis that Donald Trump himself created. So we were going to head into a situation where we'd have additional tariffs going into effect this weekend. This deal cancels those new tariffs, and, surprisingly -- and this is not something that was widely expected -- rolls back -- or reduces, rather, the rate on tariffs for some existing goods.

Now, if that sounds like a concession to the Chinese, it is a huge concession. And in exchange, the U.S. might get some more purchases from China for U.S. goods, which China had stopped purchasing, because they were rejecting Trump's tactics of just ratcheting up the tariff war.

Now what happens is, Trump kind of painted himself into a corner in a way, because if the new tariffs and gone into effect, three things would have happened. The consumers would have been hit, farmers would not have gotten relief, and the markets would have crashed. And that would have all happened in the middle of an impeachment hearing.

You're just giving the other side more ammunition and more ways to attack you. One of the things that President Trump is doing is saying, why impeach me? The economy is gangbusters. We have low unemployment. Stock market is going well. He wasn't going to jeopardize that by imposing the new tariffs.

BALDWIN: Right.

ALESCI: China kind of sniffed that out and called him on his bluff.

BALDWIN: Yes. Well, he's thinking 2020. He's thinking next year.

ALESCI: That's right.

BALDWIN: And we will hear a lot more about that from him, I'm sure.

For now, thank you very much.

ALESCI: Of course.

BALDWIN: Also just into us here at CNN, we have learned that the White House is restricting the number of administration officials who are actually allowed to listen in on the president's phone calls with foreign leaders.

According to multiple White House sources, the

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