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All Qualified Candidates Threaten to Skip Next Democratic Debate; CNN Poll: Biden Leading in Delegate-Rich Texas, California; Warren Campaign Waning Relative to Summertime Highs; Ex-"Breitbart" Editor Says Stephen Miller Is a White Supremacist; Does America Have Impeachment Fatigue; Backlash Erupts over Trump Campaign's Thanos Ad; The Partisan Clashes Coming To A Head As A New Poll Shows Americans Remain Split On Impeaching President Trump; New York Prosecutors Are Deciding If A 13-Year-Old Boy Should Be Charged As An Adult In The Stabbing Death Of A Barnard College Freshman; Former Kentucky Governor Matt Bevin's Decision Is Drawing Widespread Backlash From Both Parties And Prosecutors In His Own State. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired December 14, 2019 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00] ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: The impeachment of a president. And after a week of debating the articles of impeachment on capitol hill, one thing is crystal clear, Democrats and Republicans are operating in different realities.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DOUG COLLINS (R), RANKING MEMBER, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: We had two hearings. None of which featured fact witnesses.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: There were 12 fact witnesses who testified during the intel hearing.

REP. STEVE CHABOT (R), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Now the American people know there simply wasn't a crime committed here and there shouldn't be an impeachment here either.

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: There are no crimes here? The President committed the highest crime against the constitution by abusing his office.

REP. ANDY BIGGS (R), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: No pressure in the phone call. Mr. Zelensky has said that repeatedly.

REP. JERRY NADLER (D), CHAIRMAN, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Well, of course he said he wasn't pressured. The United States is a powerful nation on which his nation is dependent. He has a gun to his head.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: The partisan clashes coming to a head as a new poll shows Americans remain split on impeaching President Trump with 45 percent in support, 50 percent against. The same poll shows 71 percent of Americans are already set in it their opinion on the inquiry regardless of new information that comes to light. As moderate and undecided Democrats mull their votes, here was House speaker Nancy Pelosi's message to them?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: These people have to come through their own conclusions. They have seen the facts presented at the intelligence committee that's seen the constitution as they know it. , they take an oath to protect and defend it, but they see the constitutional experts speak about it. They will make their own decisions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: We already know THAT at least two Democrats planning to vote against, Jeff Van Drew of New Jersey and Minnesota congressman Collin Peterson. Both represent districts Trump won in 2016.

Meanwhile House minority leader Kevin McCarthy expects total unity among Republicans and a vote against articles of impeachment. A vote we will see House members cast this coming Wednesday.

CNN congressional reporter Lauren FOX is live in Washington for us.

And Lauren, Republicans seem confident there will be no defections. We know about these two Democrats who plan to vote no. Are the votes there?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER Well, there is plenty of votes there to get this across the finish line, Ana. But the question is, what happens with those 31 Democrats who won in districts President Trump won in 2016? Those are the members to be watching.

Like you said, you mentioned the two members who had said that they will vote against impeachment. But you have to think about all the other members home this weekend in their districts, hearing from constituents, trying to finally make up their mind about what they are going to do.

Now, there are going to be separate votes on each article of impeachment. So it's possible that if you are a Democrat in one of these districts you could vote yes in one of articles and no on another one.

But I want to give you a sense of what the pressure is that these members are feeling. Tom Malinowski is currently having a town hall. Here is what he heard from constituents a few minutes ago when he said he was going to support those articles of impeachment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TOM MALINOWSKI (D),NEW JERSEY: Based on the evidence that I have seen in the depositions, in the hearings, in the documents I have seen, I believe that on the two counts of impeachment that have been put before us, that the vote should be yes, and I will be voting yes.

(APPLAUSE) FOX: So you get a sense there, Ana, there is a divide in this town hall. And you can expect that is one that a lot of members are feeling back home. How they are going to vote next week, well we are going to be watching very closely -- Ana.

CABRERA: So interesting to hear both the cheers and boos almost equally as loud as he maid that announcement.

Lauren Fox, thanks for that reporting.

Now, if this moves to the second phase, senators, both Democrat and Republican, are supposed to act fair and impartially jurors. But that is not going to be case. And Republicans aren't trying to pretend otherwise.

Here's Becky Anderson with Republican senator Lindsey Graham today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I don't know where this goes, but I know impeachment will be over soon. I supported the Mueller investigation, by the way, for those who care about domestic politics. I didn't know what Trump had done with the Russians.

What have I come to believe? There is no collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians. If you are not colluding with your own government, why do you think you are colluding with the Russians? The president is not much of a colluder. So the bottom line here is that Mueller spent two years and $25 million looking at all things Trump and Russia, and now we are impeaching the president of the United States by partisan people, no outside counsel involved. This thing will come to the Senate. And it will die quickly. And I will do everything I can to make it die quickly.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I just wonder how quickly. Let's do a little bit on procedure. There's a debate ongoing about how a trial should be held in the Senate, including whether to have live witnesses. You don't support live witnesses. Why?

[15:05:04] GRAHAM: I want this to end as quick as possible for the good of the senate, for the good of the country. And I think the best thing for America to do is get this behind us. We know how it's going to end, so we can focus on the problems and talk to -- talked about today.

If you don't like President Trump, you can vote against him in less than a year. It's not like a politician is unaccountable if you don't impeach him. So I think impeachment is going to end quickly in the Senate. I would prefer it to end as quickly as possible. Use the record that was assembled in the house to pass impeachment articles as your trial record. I don't want to call anybody. I don't need to hear from Hunter Biden. I don't need to hear in Joe Biden. We can deal with that outside of impeachment. I don't want to talk to Pompeo. I don't want to talk to Pence. I want to hear the House make their case based on the record they established in the House and I want to vote. (END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: "New York Times" congressional editor Julie Hirschfeld Davis is with us now as well as former House GOP investigative council Sophia Nelson.

Julie, why aren't Republicans even pretending they will be impartial?

JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, CONGRESSIONAL EDITOR, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, I think it's a matter of not pretending that this is anything other than a political process. It was interesting. One of my colleagues talk yesterday with senator (INAUDIBLE) who was the Republican leader in the Senate when the senate was considering the impeachment of Bill Clinton. And he said, you know, we all knew that he wasn't going to be impeached. But we were really bought into the idea of letting the public know that this was going to be a fair and balanced process that we are going to give this process its due.

And that does not seem to be the approach that McConnell and senator Graham are taking in their comments. They are not trying to make it seem like this is going to be balanced proceeding. They are making it very clear that they are coming from the point of view. We are the President's defenders. We think this is unfair and we are not going to pretend that's not part of our motivation here. And so, Senator McConnell's staff will tell you, his allies will tell you that he is going to run a fair process. But he obviously doesn't see the need to sort of couch what he is saying in the terms of fairness and having an impartial proceeding. He is going to say what he believes, which is that this is going nowhere.

CABRERA: I get at least they are being honest.

Sophia, every time I have talked to you you've said the Democrats have a case for impeachment. But you tweet last night. I feel dispirited, you write. I don't think the Democrats have impeach Donald Trump now. Why bother? The trial is rigged. It's a joke. So you don't think it's worth it anymore?

SOPHIA NELSON, FORMER HOUSE GOP INVESTIGATIVE COUNCIL: Two things. I think that this past week was a really bad week for American democracy. I think it was frankly a disgraceful display in the House between the Republicans and the Democrats and the way the Republicans comported themselves.

To answer your question specifically, I think the articles of impeachment were as they should have been. As you know, Ana, I would have added an obstruction of justice article to that from the Mueller report because I think ten documented instances of obstruction have to be addressed.

But here's the thing that I want the American people to know and I want to be clear. The constitution gives the soul power to impeach to the House, and the soul power to the Senate to hold the trial and to remove. The Senate actually has to take a special oath upon the beginning of the trial that the chief justice administers. A lot of people don't understand this. And it's to be fair and

impartial and to conduct this trial in a way that honors the body of the Senate. That the majority leader in the Senate has said the things he said, that Lindsey Graham who just frankly in my opinion has lost his mind. I don't even know who he is anymore.

Remember, he was a house manager in the Clinton impeachment and he was the guy that said you don't have to commit a crime. You cleanse the office. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Where is that Lindsey Graham?

I'm up set about this as a citizen. I meant what I said in my tweet. I don't know at this point if it's prudent for the Democrats who I think are honoring the constitution, I'm saying this as a Republican, the Democrats that honor the constitution, I don't know the price they are going to pay at the ballot box.

This isn't in their best interest, right, if they're thinking about politics. But if they are thinking about the constitution they are doing the right thing. But I'm concerned about what I see on social media, what hear from the Republicans. Ana, let me finish with this. Which is that I don't have a problem with people disagreeing about whether or not he should be impeached. Maybe it's (INAUDIBLE).

CABRERA: OK.

NELSON: What I do have a problem with is when you don't acknowledge the facts. And the facts are that he did something inappropriate with Ukraine. The facts are he asked a foreign power to come in and investigate a political opponent or hold a press conference or make a statement, whatever it was. And that's not what we do in America. And for the Republicans not to acknowledge that, that's a dark day for democracy.

CABRERA: Julie, "The New York Times" makes this point, your paper, with the Senate split 53 to 47 between Republicans and Democrats including the two independents who vote with Democrats, Mr. McConnell has a thin margin. If Democrats stick together and four Republicans defect, Mr. McConnell could lose control of the proceedings, he can lose only two votes if you wants to push through a resolution with only Republican support.

We have heard, you know, senator Mitt Romney talk about being open- minded in this process. Is this a real concern?

[15:10:25] DAVIS: Well, I mean that is true. And what that isn't is saying there is anywhere near the 67 senators, the two-thirds senators that would be needed to actually convict President Trump. But what it does do is hem senator McConnell a bit in terms of how he is going to conduct this. And that is the reason why he has been privately telling the President and other Republican senators have been privately telling the White House and the White House counsel that they are not going to have the majority that they need to push through some of the more edgy elements of this trial that the President has seemed to want, things like calling Hunter Biden as a witness, things like dragging out the process for a very long time. And don't forget that Mitch McConnell also has to worry about his vulnerable Republican senators who it's going to be a hard vote for them probably whether to quit or convict. But certainly they don't want to be taking vote after vote after vote on controversial witnesses or other elements of the trial that might see over the top.

CABRERA: Sophia, you know, Democrats we have heard this week say something like, you know, this president is continuing to be a threat not only to democracy but to national security. If the Senate ends up ultimately acquitting him if he is impeached and then he has acquitted and he continues to do what Democrats consider to be impeachable acts, what should they do?

NELSON: Ana, in real-time as we sit here, Rudy Giuliani was at the White House yesterday, and he was working on some nefarious report that I really don't even want to see. And he has got some information that he's dug up in of all places, where? Ukraine. And this is happening in real-time. And the President is calling him on his cell asking him what have you got? It's actually hard to believe this happening.

To your question, I don't know what else the Democrats can do because the Republicans refuse to join in in protecting the constitution and democracy. Again, they might not agree that the President should be impeached. OK, let's argue about that. But these hearings are ridiculous. They want to gaslight the public. They want to pretend we are not seeing what we are seeing in real-time. That the transcript doesn't say what it said. They want to attack the whistleblower and these other things instead of dealing with what you just asked.

I do think the President is a clear and present danger to this country and this constitution. I think he is a problem. But obviously if the Republicans who are in the majority in the Senate, who by the way the senators deal in what treaties and foreign policies and foreign affairs. That's one of their specific roles under the constitution.

I don't know how they let this happen and sign off on this without rebuking the president in some way for goodness sake, to say we don't want presidents to do this. So I don't really have an answer to your question if the Republicans refuse to engage in reality and the facts of what's going on here.

CABRERA: Sophia Nelson and Julie Hirschfeld Davis, ladies, good to have you here. Thank you.

We have new details in the murder of a college student that has rattled New York city. What we have learned now about the 13-year-old in custody, another suspect still not charged.

Plus a lot of questions about why the former Kentucky governor has issued hundreds of pardons some for some really violent crimes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:08] CABRERA: In New York prosecutors are deciding if a 13- year-old boy should be charged as an adult in the stabbing death of a Barnard college freshman. 18-year-old Tessa Rae Majors was walking in New York Morningside park when she was attacked and she was stabbed just blocks away from the Barnard campus. The suspect, again, just 13 years old told reportedly police he watched as his two friends grabbed Majors and then one of them slashed her. A second person is also in custody in connection to this brutal murder.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is following all of it for us.

Polo, what else are you learning about the attack and this suspect?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, 13 years old, Ana, not that much younger than the victim, 18 here. Police say that they found that teen with the knife and that teen has admitted to being involved in the attempted robbery and at least stabbing. But the question here, to what extent?

According to "The New York Times," the 13-year-old faces a felony murder charged, meaning that he is not accused of stabbing Tessa Majors but taking part in the robbery. The Times also reporting and an NYPD testified during the 13-year-old's hearing that took place yesterday. He reportedly told the court that the teen and two others teenager campuses walked into the park on Wednesday with that intention of robbing people. The boy telling detectives that he watched his two friends grab the 18-year-old Barnard college freshman and then put her into a choke hold. He claims not long after that they removed from the from her pockets and then eventually slashed her repeatedly with a knife.

A source saying there is a second person in custody but they have not been charged. CNN reaching out to the boy's attorney who says that there is no allegations against her client claiming that he actually touched the victim, that he was merely present when this took place. We have reached out to also prosecutor who will have to decide if they will file adult charges in this case.

But this is certainly sending shock waves through the entire community there including the family members of this young who yesterday released a statement in writing in part, we lost a very special, very talented and very well-loved young woman. Tessa shone brightly in this world. And our hearts will never be the same. As they continue mourning, Ana, that investigation does press forward. Again, at least two people in custody, potentially three. That is something that we are following.

CABRERA: That is a tragedy on so many levels. Thank you for updating us on that.

There is uproar across the country this weekend over the former Kentucky governor granting hundreds of pardons or commutations right before leaving office and among those getting pardons, convicted murderers and rapists. What victims and their families have to say about it?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:23:39] CABRERA: Former Kentucky governor Matt Bevin spent his final days in office pardoning and commuting the sentences of hundreds of criminals, a number of them violent offenders including a child rapist, a man who killed his parents, and a mother who dumped her newborn in a septic tank. Bevin's His decision is drawing widespread backlash from both parties and prosecutors in his own state.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROB SANDERS, KENTON COUNTY COMMONWEALTH PROSECUTOR: We heard the Kentucky Senate president call for a federal investigation into how these pardons came about. There's certainly a few of them that smell. It's unfortunately for the people who rightfully received a pardon because there are several people who earned the pardon and deserve a pardon. And it's unfortunate that they are not being celebrated right now because their pardon have been camouflage by these horrible heinous criminals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: CNN's Natasha Chen joins us now.

Natasha, how is the former governor defending himself?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT:" Yes. He took to twitter last night, Ana. He tweeted 20 statements talking about second chances and how he was careful in reviewing each of these cases. In one of these tweets, he said not one person receiving a pardon would I not welcome as a coworker, neighbor or to sit beside me or any member of my family in a church pew or at a public event. So he is talking about redemption and that these decisions were carefully made.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[15:25:05] CHEN (voice-over): Before walking out of the mansion this week, Kentucky Republican Matt Bevin pardoned this man who sexually assaulted a 15-year-old boy, a drunk driver who killed a pastor and his wife, a man who decapitated a woman and left her body in barrel, a woman who threw her newborn in a septic tank at a flee market, a man who at age 16 killed his parents and left their bodies in a basement, and this man who raped a 9-year-old girl and served less than 18 months out of his 23-year sentence. The victim's mother says it's a slap in the face.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It feels like we are going through it all over again. We just got to the point where we felt safe leaving the house.

CHEN: Kenton county prosecutor Rob Sanders told CNN the man hadn't served enough time to even begin sex offender treatment.

SANDERS: It shocks the conscience. It's offensive, mind boggling how any governor can be this irresponsible.

CHEN: Now there's also a question of political favoritism.

MORGAN MCGARVEY (D), KENTUCKY STATE SENATE MINORITY LEADER: We have someone who was convicted of killing someone in front of his wife at his home, who pulled the trigger. CHEN: State lawmakers say they want to investigate this case because

the family of the man pardoned raised more than $20,000 last year to help Bevin.

MCGARVEY: Bottom-line, if it looks like a duck and talks like a duck you got to look into whether or not it's a duck.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: So Natasha, looking ahead then, if there are cases in question, we know there has now been at least calls for an investigation into this, is there anything more that can be done? Could prosecutors in that state take action?

CHEN: Well these pardons can't be reversed. That was the right of the governor to issue those pardons and commutations. We know that the prosecutors have filed an open records request at this time to at least ask for a complete list of the names of people pardoned. Because so far they have not gotten that complete list. We just know that there are at least 400 people on that list.

And right now there are also like you said calling for more attention to certain cases. State lawmakers asking the attorney general elect to open an investigation. We are not sure if that person will take up the investigation, but these commonwealth attorneys are prepared to do so if no one else will.

CABRERA: Natasha Chen, thank you for that.

Just days away now from the next Democratic debate, Buttigieg and Warren clashing, Biden holding on to his lead, Yang making the stage, and all seven candidates say they may not even show up.

We are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:31:45]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: The next Democratic debate is scheduled for Thursday, but there's a chance nobody will show up. All seven candidates who qualified for the Los Angeles debates say they will skip it to show their support for a local labor union at the college campus where the debate is set to happen.

Political commentator, Karen Finney, is here. Also Democratic strategist and author, Nathan Rubin, joins us now.

Karen, we are just 51 days until the Iowa caucuses. Skipping a debate at this crucial time seems risky?

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, it does. Although, I think it's less risky if everybody does it and the point is it's in solidarity with workers. You know, you get a nice bit of a tension around that and show your support for workers. I suspect -- I haven't talked to my friends at the DNC -- but I

suspect there are a lot of different ideas floating around for contingency plans, because it does seem a little bit impossible that we would just not have a debate of some kind. We'll see.

CABRERA: You also have this extra factor about the impeachment trial that could happen in January. And a number of those Senators who are going to be on the debate stage, at least four of those people, will be off the campaign trail in January right ahead of the Iowa caucus.

Andrew Yang barrel made the cutoff, will be the only person of color, but he doesn't have as much name recognition. It seems he would want to be able to get his message out to a larger audience.

Nathan, who stands to lose the most if this debate doesn't happen?

NATHAN RUBIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST & AUTHOR: Well, like you said, it is crunch time now. We're 50 days out from the Iowa caucus. This is generally the time each candidate is trying to make their homerun message, to make sure they can resonate with the American people.

I think they all stand to lose greatly. We've started to see a couple news cycles between Senator Warren and Mayor Pete Buttigieg going back and forth at each other, going negative even. That's opened up opportunity, in the horse-race mentality, for Bernie Sanders to emerge untouched. We've started to see polls come back of him increasing in early states.

So to be who was the biggest loser, I think they all stand to lose. Who is going to win is really the question, I think.

CABRERA: Let's talk about Joe Biden. He said that vote in the U.K. this week was a warning shot to Democrats in the USA about moving too far to the left. A lot of political analysts agree with him.

He continues to top the major polls, those that pit him against President Trump in the general election. Here's the current polling for states, including Texas and California. Biden in leading in both states there as far as the 2020 field. He's also leading slightly to President Trump even in Texas.

So did his candidacy get stronger this week, Karen?

FINNEY: Well, I think, you know, one of the things we've seen is that he's had good staying power throughout. He had a little bit of a dip. Think about the resilience he's had through gaffes that we've spent time talking about, through being attacked by President Trump, he and his son.

It's interesting to see while we're talking about impeachment and the Republicans keep trying to bring up Hunter Biden, it has not damaged Joe Biden. Which if I'm in his campaign, I'm happy about that.

[15:35:09] The other thing about those numbers that are so important, remember that while the four early states are very important, Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina, that's only 10 percent of the delegates you need to clinch the nomination. You've got Super Tuesday with California and Texas. Those are big delegate takes.

So if you're Joe Biden and you think you can do well in those states, that's a nice calendar for you.

CABRERA: Meantime, Nathan, we showed those numbers and you see Senator Warren continues to slide a little bit. Remember, in the summer, she was challenging Joe Biden, in the lead --

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: -- in some states. What happened?

RUBIN: First and foremost, I do want to caution people from drawing any kind of corollary between the U.K. and American elections. Boris Johnson, the conservative leader over there, might be analogized to Donald Trump, but he's pro-socialized medicine and for net-zero carbon emissions by 2050. They're very different. They have a multiparty parliamentary system. We have a two-party system over here.

CABRERA: You're not as worried about the Democratic field --

(CROSSTALK)

RUBIN: I don't think anyone can necessarily say that, because Jeremy Corbyn lost, we have to have a moderate here. Remember, what I fear of this process is coming out the other side with a hobbled nominee who has high unfavorability ratings.

All you have to do is look at the 2016 election to see how that plays out.

FINNEY: Well --

RUBIN: We had 66 million Americans vote for Hillary Clinton. And 63 million Americans voted for Donald Trump. And 100 million Americans stayed home. They didn't vote at all. We need a movement candidate who can radically transform the electorate so we can win --

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Now is the question though, where do you see her candidacy because she clearly has, you know, taken a little bit of a step back in the polls?

RUBIN: Well, over the last several weeks, we've seen a shift from Elizabeth Warren support, maybe towards more Joe Biden or even to Mayor Pete Buttigieg, but it's opening up a lane for the progressive drive. I'm not a huge Bernie Sanders supporter but he is starting to gain in those polls. I think we need to recognize that as well.

CABRERA: Karen, quick final thought? FINNEY: I think the most important thing to keep in mind is part of

what we're seeing in the polls -- and I think this is also for Warren -- voters want to beat Donald Trump. They want to be inspired, but they just might not be ready for the kind of wholesale realignment that Elizabeth Warren talks about, even though voters really like her ideas.

I think that's what we're going to continue to see play out over the next several months. And you see Buttigieg trying to kind of be the guy coming up the middle, offering himself as a little bit of an alternative to Joe Biden, a younger version maybe, as well as slightly to the more center left than Warren.

So watching how that plays out will be important to figuring out where we go.

CABRERA: All right, Karen Finney, Nathan Rubin, good to have both of you here.

One of those candidates, Andrew Yang, will be joining us live later for an interview on CNN. That's at 7:00 right here on CNN. Don't miss it.

A former "Breitbart" editor is pointing a finger directly at one of President Trump's closest aides, senior policy adviser, Stephen Miller. What she's saying about him and white supremacy. A CNN exclusive, up next.

Make your New Year's plans now. Two best friends, one epic night. Anderson Cooper and Andy Cohen "NEW YEAR'S LIVE" begins at 8:00 p.m. on New Year's Eve, here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:42:30]

CABRERA: Strong accusations today against President Trump's senior policy adviser, Stephen Miller. A former "Breitbart News" editor is calling him a white supremacist. The editor says she knows this because she was one, too.

CNN national correspondent, Sara Sidner, has this exclusive interview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We sat down with a former "Breitbart" editor who says she knows all too well that Stephen Miller is a white nationalist.

KATIE MCHUGH, FORMER BREITBART NEWS EDITOR: These are all white nationalists.

SIDNER (voice-over): Former "Breitbart News" editor, Katie McHugh, says she is doing her first television interview for one reason, she wants to expose a white supremacist in the White House.

(on camera): You think Stephen Miller is a white nationalist?

MCHUGH: A white supremacist, I would say, because I believe his ideology is one of domination and control over people of color.

SIDNER (voice-over): Stephen Miller is a senior aide to President Donald Trump. He did not respond to our request for comment.

A White House spokesperson has said that Miller is not a racist and is being attacked because he's Jewish.

McHugh says that's laughable. She says, on his rise to the White House, while working for Senator Jeff Sessions --

STEPHEN MILLER, SENIOR AIDE TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: Are you ready to send Donald J. Trump to the White House?

SIDNER: -- and later on Trump's campaign, Miller was in constant contact with her, pushing stories that fit an anti-immigration narrative, stories she wrote for "Breitbart" without question.

(on camera): Were you a white nationalist?

MCHUGH: I think I would call myself that. Whatever you want to call it, white nationalist, white supremacist, that's fine.

SIDNER: That's what you were?

MCHUGH: Yes, but that part is dead.

SIDNER: Do you think this is political to let his star rise because he could manipulate you or do you think he actually is a white supremacist?

MCHUGH: I believe he wanted access to power because he is a white supremacist and wanted to impose his policies. Those e-mails are -- you can read his own words.

SIDNER (voice-over): McHugh says these are some of his own words in e-mail to her. She saved 900 or so exchanges between Miller and "Breitbart" staffers from 2015 to 2016.

In 2015, not long after a white supremacist slaughtered nine black Americans praying inside their Charleston Church, McHugh says Miller called and e-mailed not with sympathy for the victims, but instead a focus on changing the narrative to outrage over the removal of Confederate statues and retailers removing Confederate merchandise.

"Have you thought about going to Amazon and finding the commie flag and doing a story on that?"

"Yes, definitely," she replies.

This is the story McHugh wrote.

[15:45:02]

(on camera): Did he ever once mention that he was sorry that nine African-Americans were slaughtered while praying at church?

MCHUGH: Never. No, it never occurred to him, it seemed.

SIDNER (voice-over): But McHugh says immigration was his favorite subject.

In 2015, he also sent McHugh an e-mail.

Subject line, "For your Islam story."

In it, a link to the conspiracy Web site, Infowars.

The headline, "Reverend Graham: We are under attack. Stop all immigration of Muslims to the U.S."

A few months later --

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.

SIDNER: In another e-mail exchange, Miller suggests coverage of immigration and the pope. You see the pope saying, we must, in effect, get rid of borders. Someone should point out the parallels to "Camp of the Saints."

MCHUGH: Vile, vile, disgusting, racist novel.

SIDNER: "The Camp of the Saints" is a book beloved by white supremacists.

A "Breitbart" editor published the content Miller suggested.

MILLER: This election is a referendum --

SIDNER: And just before Miller heads off to work for the Trump campaign in 2016, he tells what he saw as the danger of allowing hurricane victims coming to the U.S.

"They will all get TPS. That's temporary protection status. That needs to be the weekend's big story. TPS is everything, he says, and sends McHugh an article on the dangers of TPS from a prominent white nationalist Web site."

SIDNER (on camera): Did he want you to parrot a white nationalist Web site?

MCHUGH: Yes, he did. It was understood that Miller had editorial control over the political section of "Breitbart News."

SIDNER (voice-over): Well, after Miller joins Trump's inner circle, the U.S. ended TPS status for several countries.

McHugh is ashamed of her role in all of this.

She was fired by "Breitbart" for an Islamophobic tweet, among other things, the Web site said, including for being a liar.

(on camera): In 2015, you said, "Another crusade would do a lot of good. Let's turn Mecca into a strip mall."

Another tweet, "The only way to strike a balance between vigilance, discrimination and terror is to end the Muslim migration."

MCHUGH: That's a quote from Miller. That's a paraphrase of a conversation that we had.

SIDNER: This was the tweet that ends up with you getting fired over. "There would be no deadly terror attacks in the U.K. if Muslims did not live there."

Did you believe all these hateful, racist, Islamophobic things that you were putting out there on your Twitter feed?

MCHUGH: I did.

SIDNER: Why should people believe you're sincere?

MCHUGH: Because I believe in publicly confessing your sins. And I also believe that, you know, working very hard to expose these networks that I was a part of and show how dangerous they are, how evil they are and how many people they hurt.

SIDNER: She says Stephen Miller should do the same and resign. But so far, Miller is showing no indication of resigning.

And as for the White House, while they did not comment on this particular story, they have done nothing but support him.

Sara Sidner, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: We are facing another historic week for the country as articles of impeachment head to the House floor. But in this polarized era where everyone seems to have their minds made up, does America have impeachment fatigue? We'll talk about it.

But, first --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "A.C. 360": I'm Anderson Cooper. Each of this year's top-10 "CNN Heroes" proves that one person can make a difference. And again this year we're making it easy for you to support.

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[15:49:11]

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Does impeaching a president carry the same weight it once did? President Trump is likely to become only the third president in U.S. history to be impeached, yet it didn't lead the nightly newscasts on the major broadcasting networks for a few days this week. It's faded from some of the country's leading newspapers like the "New York Times."

Let's bring in CNN senior media reporter, Oliver Darcy, to discuss this.

Oliver, this is historic. How do you explain the news coverage?

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENOR MEDIA REPORTER: It is baffling. On Wednesday evening, for instance, the House Judiciary Committee was, for the fourth time in U.S. history, debating articles of impeachment against the U.S. president.

If you tuned into the evening news on that day, it wasn't in the top three stories. There were no impeachment stories in the top three stories in either of the broadcast news networks, not CBS, NBC, ABC. They put things like the arctic blast ahead of the impeachment story, which is mindboggling.

If you tuned into "New York Times" the next day, looked at the front page, and took a glance, you wouldn't see any impeachment stories on the front page.

CABRERA: Why is it, do you think, just fatigue?

DARCY: I don't know.

CABRERA: Playing to their audience --

(CROSSTALK)

DARCY: Awoke from a coma, and you catch the evening news on Wednesday, you happen to glance at the front page of "New York Times" as you're in a coffee shop or whatever the next morning, you probably would have no idea the president of the United States, for the fourth time in U.S. history, is facing articles of impeachment.

I can't explain it. I think maybe there's perhaps just a numbness to it all.

CABRERA: The president won't let it fade from anybody's mind. He has been tweeting up a storm, even more than usual. And 120 tweets Thursday alone. You say that's a new record. What does this tell you?

DARCY: This may be why the people aren't taking impeachment as seriously. People have become numb to a lot of the news, largely, in part, to the president flooding the zone. He is tweeting out at record levels. He's just making a lot of noise.

So I think it makes it difficult for people to watch every move because there's so much noise involved. It is hard to really get to what is really important.

In terms of the president's tweeting habits, it is also baffling to me. He is trying to flood the zone. But on the other hand, if he wants the message out there, it makes more sense tactically to tweet a few times a day, because people will pay attention to it. Otherwise, people are tuning out.

[15:55:14]

I guess you could argue which one he is trying to accomplish with the tweets.

CABRERA: Yes.

The president's campaign put out a new ad this week that's causing some controversy. Let's watch for a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

ANNOUNCER: I am inevitable.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): On this solemn day, I recall that the first order of business --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: OK. What more do you know about the ad? Why it is causing backlash?

DARCY: I mean, it is clear why it is causing backlash.

(CROSSTALK)

DARCY: -- Thanos. And the creator, who came out and said he felt violated that the president's campaign did this, pointed out that Thanos, in the Marvel movies, is a mass murderer. He kills half the universe with the snap of his fingers.

What you see there is a meme of the president basically disappearing the Democrats like Thanos disappeared all of his enemies and half the universe as well.

It is baffling behavior. Something that maybe a child would do. To see the president of the United States' campaign do it, it's alarming to say the least -- Ana?

CABRERA: Shaking your head, no doubt.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Thank you so much, Oliver Darcy.

DARCY: Thanks.

CABRERA: Good to have you here.

Democrats are raising concerns about the Senate impeachment trial. Can Mitch McConnell run a fair and impartial trial while working hand in hand with the White House?

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END