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House Poised To Impeach Trump In Coming Days; Vulnerable Democrats Weigh Implications Of Impeachment Vote; Supreme Court Takes Up Trump's Tax Records. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired December 15, 2019 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks for staying with me. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

And with just days to go until President Trump's likely impeachment, American voters appear split down the middle on impeachment on whether that's the right thing to do. A new nationwide poll conducted by Fox News revealed Americans' opinions on a wide range of issues, from legalizing marijuana to building a border wall, to changing the national healthcare system, and this question, do you think President Trump should be impeached and removed from office? 50 percent of respondents, yes, 46 percent, no. The rest didn't have an opinion.

Let's go to CNN's Jeremy Diamond at the White House.

Jeremy, that figure of 50 percent isn't much different from the same poll taken before the committee hearings. It still has the majority of Americans. How is the White House responding?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Well, like you said, Ana, it is 50 percent of registered voters who believe that President Trump should be impeached and removed from office. That is more registered voters in this poll than those who say that the president should not be impeached and removed from office. But perhaps the biggest takeaway, as you said, Ana, is the fact that this remains unchanged from before these public hearings. And that could be concerning to some Democrats who may feel that they were not able to convince enough of the American public to actually get behind impeachment and removal from office.

The president though has responded in quite Trumpian fashion. Here is the tweet from the president from a little earlier today where he says, the Fox News poll, always inaccurate, are heavily weighted towards Democrats. So ridiculous. Same thing happened in 2016. They got it all wrong. Get a new pollster.

Now, this is, of course, a familiar refrain from the president whenever he sees a poll that he does not like, whether it's from Fox News or CNN or whoever it may be. The president is going to go ahead and attack that, despite the fact that, again, there is a silver lining for Republicans here, which is the fact that that polling remains largely unchanged from back in late October. CABRERA: So what do the next few days now at the White House look like as the impeachment vote on the House floor looms closer and looks likely to pass?

DIAMOND: Well, in just a few days, President Trump is almost certain to become the third president in American history to be impeached by the House of Representatives. Despite that though, the White House is really kind of moving beyond the House vote. Of course, they are trying to pressure some of those 31 Democrats in districts that voted for President Trump in 2016.

But beyond that, most of the efforts that we're seeing at the White House are really focused on preparing for that Senate trial. And the White House officials believe that that Senate trial will be a fair process to the president. Here's Pam Bondi, one of the White House advisers on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, IMPEACHMENT ADVISER FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: So we weren't given a fair trial in the House at all. Now, it goes to the Senate and the senators -- the president deserves to be heard. We should be working hand in hand with him. The rules of evidence will apply. These are the senators who will decide if our president is impeached, which will not happen. We should and will work hand in hand with them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: Now, Ana, of course, a fair trial does not necessarily mean an impartial one. And Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is indicating as much, saying that he's going to coordinate closely with the White House as they prepare for the mechanics and the procedures of that Senate trial.

And while we have heard for these last couple of months Republicans complaining about the process in the Democratic House, now we are already beginning to see some of those House Democrats complaining about the procedures in the Senate, notably already that coordination between Senate Republicans and the president.

CABRERA: Jeremy Diamond for us at the White House, thanks.

Republican Congressman Mike Johnson of Louisiana serves on the House Judiciary Committee. And on Friday, he voted against the two articles of impeachment, and joins us now. Congressman, thanks for being here.

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Hey, Ana. Thanks for having me.

CABRERA: A historic week ahead, and I want to get to impeachment in this new polling in just a moment. But, first, I have to get your reaction to what the president just tweeted. He is claiming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's teeth were falling out. He says that her mouth -- this was during a press conference last week. Minutes later, he tweeted calling her Crazy Nancy. Do you condone the president of the United States speaking about a woman, much less the speaker of the House, this way?

JOHNSON: The president has a very unorthodox style of messaging. It's not the way that I talk or that I would tweet. But, look, the president is very frustrated about he's been treated. He lashes out sometimes and I think a lot of the American people understand that. It was mentioned just a moment ago in your discussion that he really hadn't gotten due process, he didn't get a fair trial in the House. And that's very bothersome to him because there's going to be an asterisk by his presidency in the history books that he was the third president to be impeached in the House. And it's really not fair the way it's been done, so he's frustrated about that.

CABRERA: You said earlier today the Democrats would, quote, pay a heavy political price over impeachment, but this new polling from Fox News finds that the majority of Americans believe President Trump should be impeached and half think he should be removed from office.

[18:05:05]

It also finds that more Americans than not believe that the president abused his power, obstructed Congress and committed bribery. Are you not concerned that Republicans could pay the price?

JOHNSON: I'm not concerned about that at all. I think going forward with impeachment on the thinnest record in the history of our country with the quickest trial, the way that due process was violated is an act of political malpractice. I think when the American people review all this --

CABRERA: The president had an opportunity to give his case before the House.

JOHNSON: No, he didn't.

CABRERA: He could have had due process.

JOHNSON: No, he didn't have that. Remember, Adam Schiff, Chairman Schiff, is the one that engineered this whole thing.

CABRERA: In the House Judiciary Committee, he was invited. His counsel was invited. They chose not to show up.

JOHNSON: Well, wait a minute. By the time they got to the House Judiciary Committee, the system was already completely rigged. They'd already had all these hearings in the basement that were behind closed doors in the Judiciary Committee, the one that I serve on, that actually has jurisdiction over all these matters, we still haven't been allowed to review all that record. So it hasn't been fair and everybody recognizes that.

Professor Turley came in as an expert witness and said, literally, it's the fastest impeachment on the thinnest record and the thinnest accusations ever produced. And the founding fathers of this country warned us against this, Ana. They said, you should never have a single party impeachment Because they knew that it would divide the country politically and it would frankly open up Pandora's Box, and that's what the Democrats have done now.

CABRERA: Do you have any concerns with the president urging investigations into the Bidens in exchange for a White House visit and while withholding military aid that the Congress had appropriated?

JOHNSON: Look, I think that is a misstatement of what happened here. What the evidence shows and what the record is clear of is four important facts. Number one, that President Zelensky and President Trump said that there was no pressure exerted. Ukraine didn't even know that the funds were being delayed. And they didn't find it out until it was reported in the media later one. There was nothing --

CABRERA: Actually, let me stop you there. Congressional testimony shows otherwise that they were asking and concerned about the aid on the day of the phone call on July 25th.

JOHNSON: Actually, it doesn't. And if you look at the witnesses, no one had direct knowledge. It's based on hearsay, conjecture and speculation about those things. There's only three witnesses of all the 17 that were brought into the basement under oath who actually heard the call and they interpreted it three different ways. What matters is what the Ukrainians thought.

You can't have bribery, extortion or any of this other thing if they didn't know what was happening. And, of course, the military aid was released. It did go to them. They did get a meeting in the White House. And there's never been an investigation of the Bidens.

CABRERA: Well, they didn't. Actually, Zelensky has not had a meeting at the White House and the aid was only released after the whistleblower had come forward and the president knew about that, after that all happened, there was this search for justification for the aid and why it was being withheld. We also know President Trump asked for a favor though after Zelensky on the phone call mentioned the Ukrainian aid, the Javelins specifically, right?

JOHNSON: He said, do us a favor, not do me a favor. They twisted that fact a number of times in the hearings, everyone saw. And he was talking about our country. What's very clear from the record and what every American knows is that President Trump has always been concerned about the misuse of American taxpayers' treasure overseas.

He was deeply concerned about Ukraine because everyone knows it was listed as the third most corrupt country in the world. He wanted to make sure if we were going to send money overseas for military aid, and they ultimately got it, that it would be used in an appropriate manner. It wouldn't be squandered.

CABRERA: Well, let's talk about corruption. Let's talk about corruption though, because there had been an investigation into the corruption in Ukraine and whether it was appropriate to release this military aid. That was back in May. The Pentagon and the State Department actually said that they concluded substantial actions to root out corruption had taken place and that the aid would be released. And as you know, this is a president who actually has a history of defending corruption. Just look at the people who were his associates who now have been indicted and convicted in the Robert Mueller investigation. Look at the Trump University fraud, the Trump Foundation fraud. How can you believe this was about corruption?

JOHNSON: Ana, look, with all due respect, you can't say the president defends corruption. That's not a fair assessment, and I think you know that. The facts show, and what's important is the facts of these articles of impeachment, this is the first time in the history of the country that any impeachment has proceeded without a specific crime being alleged or proven.

When we were talking about Clinton or Andrew Johnson or even the investigation of Richard Nixon, you had specific crimes, concrete crimes and a load of evidence to prove that it happened. That simply doesn't exist here. And that's the problem as they're proceeding with -- the president calls it a political witch hunt. It's pretty clear that that's what this is. And after 14 hours of hearing in the Judiciary Committee no one could produce a scintilla of evidence to prove that these were impeachable offenses.

[18:10:05]

They simply aren't.

The second one was obstruction of Congress. They're going after President Trump for doing what every administration in the modern era has done. There's never been a president who just turned over documents and witnesses just because Congress requested them. In the Fast and Furious investigation of President Obama, he resisted it as well.

And the resolution of that is supposed to be in the third branch of the government in the Judiciary. The Democrats in the House didn't do that and there's one reason why. They promised their base that they would get an impeachment by Christmas. And, by the way, they promised these impeachments right after Donald Trump won the election in 2016. This has been going on a long time and everybody can see that.

CABRERA: So next time a Democrat is in office, if they ask a foreign power to investigate a Republican rival that might help them in the next election, you will have no problem with that?

JOHNSON: No. I'll tell you what we should be concerned about. The next time there's a Democrat in the White House and there's a Republican majority in the House of Representatives, there's maybe a real problem because there's going to be a base on the other side that wants an impeachment just because they disagree with his decisions or his tweets or his political activities. That's not how our system is set up.

The House of Representatives doesn't get to remove a president just because they don't like him or they don't agree with his policies. Every president in the history of this country has done things that are unpopular certainly by the opposing part, but it doesn't mean you can remove them.

We have an election coming up in 11 months. The people of this country should be able decide whether Donald Trump gets another term, not a handful of biased Democrats in the House of Representatives. And I think that's pretty clear for most people when they look at this objectively.

CABRERA: Congressman Mike Johnson, thank you for taking the time. You and your colleagues are always invited on this show. I appreciate it.

JOHNSON: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: As the full House prepares to vote on impeachment, some Democrats in swing districts are struggling with how to vote. Coming up, we'll look at what voters in a vulnerable district in Michigan are telling their representative.

You're live in the CNN Newsroom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

CABRERA: While the House gets ready to vote on articles of impeachment this week, President Trump is getting ready to hold a campaign rally in Michigan on

Wednesday, but he's fighting for more than just voter support. He's also trying to win back backing from Congresswoman Elissa Slotkin's district. She's a Democratic lawmaker in a suburban Detroit district that Trump won in 2016 and she's still undecided herself about whether to support the articles of impeachment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ELISA SLOTKIN (D-MI): And this is going to be one of the most serious things I probably ever vote on, so I'm going to take it seriously. Sometimes you have to make calls that aren't based on a poll or some political consultant. And if this is the end of my political career, at least I'm doing what I think is right and I'm basing my decisions on integrity. That is the most I can do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: CNN's Jason Carroll joins us now from Rochester, Michigan, where Slotkin will hold a town hall tomorrow. Jason, what message are Slotkin's voters sending her ahead of this coming impeachment vote?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, a couple of things. From the folks that we talked to, Ana, they're telling the congresswoman to give it a lot of thought, to take her time and to listen to what people are telling her. The problem is she's got a lot of people telling her different things because this district is a swing district. So, literally, half of the folks here are saying, go ahead and vote to impeachment the president, the other half of some of the people here are saying, look, this is something that should not happen, you should not be voting to impeach the president.

So she's finding herself in somewhat of a really tough spot. And one point that everyone can agree on is no matter what she decides to do, it's going to make a lot of people either happy or unhappy. Here's small sampling of some of the people we spoke to in terms of what they said she should do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm a conservative. I'm not a Republican but I'm a conservative. For her to make a decision to impeach the president would be a big mistake at this point in time. I don't think the evidence is there. I think the whole system is flawed.

CARROLL: Where do you stand?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where do I stand?

CARROLL: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think everybody has to be held accountable. That's where I stand. I'm not going to say one way or the other. But I do think people know what's right and wrong. Everybody does.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody has their opinion.

CARROLL: What would you advise to her?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To give it a lot of thought and look everything over and do what she believes, what the people would want.

CARROLL: And what you believe is what?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To impeach.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're making a big deal about something that wasn't right but it wasn't as bad as they're saying it is. And they've been planning on impeaching him since he got into office.

CARROLL: They, meaning -- you mean the Democrats?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Democrats.

CARROLL: What would your advice to her be?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vote no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: So, Ana, even at a holiday fair here in Rochester, you're still getting a lot of folks not just talking about the holidays but obviously impeachment as well.

I spoke to a representative from Slotkin's office earlier this afternoon and she says that the congresswoman is using every hour, every hour last of this weekend to still give this a lot of thought, taking on calls from folks on both sides of this issue.

Again, tomorrow, she is going to be having that town hall where she's sure to get an earful from a number of constituents here. Ana?

CABRERA: And it's going to be an interesting town hall. Jason Carroll, thanks for being there for us.

In just a few days, the final presidential debate of the year is coming to CNN. It's a critical night for candidates still trying to break through, the PBS NewsHour/Politico Democratic Presidential Debate live from Los Angeles. You can watch it here on CNN as well as your local PBS station. Coverage starts at 8:00 Eastern Thursday night.

The historic moment, an impeachment vote in the House is going to take center stage, of course, this week. That's expected on Wednesday. And we want to hear from you. What are your questions about the process? Cross-Exam with Elie Honig is next.

But, first, a major thaw in the U.S./China trade war, Washington and Beijing now have a partial agreement that prevents new tariffs on Chinese goods. But that's not the only story on investors' minds this week. CNN's Cristina Alesci has your Before the Bell report.

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Ana. An early Christmas present for investors, President Trump has signed off on a phase one trade deal with China. The agreement delays a fresh round of tariffs that would have gone into effect tonight. Those would have applied to about $155 billion worth of Chinese goods including laptops, cell phones, toys and office supplies.

[18:20:02]

Look, trade headlines have had markets in a chokehold all year, but stocks have still managed to hit record highs. That's largely due to three interest rate cuts from the Federal Reserve. But last week, the Federal Reserve left rates alone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEROME POWELL, FED CHAIRMAN: We try to look through the volatility in trade news and trade negotiations. We try not to react. We can't react. Monetary policy is not the right tool to react in the very short-term to volatility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALESCI: Powell also signaled the Fed plans to keep rates unchanged in 2020 unless there's a material change to the economic outlook.

In New York, I'm Cristina Alesci.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: The impeachment inquiry into President Trump goes into overdrive this week with a full House expected to vote on impeachment as soon as Wednesday.

[18:25:00]

And on the same day that the Judiciary Committee approved the articles of impeachment for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress, the Supreme Court announced it will hear three cases related to subpoenas of Trump's taxes and financial records.

Back with us to answer all of your questions is former federal and state prosecutor, Elie Honig.

So, Elie, the first question actually is about the Supreme Court now agreeing to hear the cases regarding Trump's finances. One viewer asked what is the significance of that and does it give any hint as to how the court will rule?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANAYST: So this is a temporary reprieve for Donald Trump. As you said, what the Supreme Court did here was they consolidated three separate cases. And in all three of those cases, the district court, which is the trial level court, ruled against Donald Trump and the court of appeals ruled against Donald Trump. So, so far, he is 0-6 in the courts on this tax returns issue.

So why did the Supreme Court take it? It takes four of the nine justices to take up a case. It could be they disagree and they intend to overrule those six federal courts, or it could be the Supreme Court just realized this is an enormous case with enormous consequences. It goes to our fundamental balance of powers, the ability of Congress and prosecutors to investigate the president.

Now, we will get a ruling by the end of the Supreme Court term, which is June 2020. If it hits in the summer, it could be right in the heart of election season. It could be either a huge setback or a huge vindication for Trump. I'm willing to make a prediction. I think the Supreme Court rules against Trump here and says those tax returns do have to be produced.

CABRERA: Wow. That would be huge. I want to switch to impeachment, as the House is set to vote to impeach the president this week. We expect that to happen. It would move onto a Senate trial then, which would determine whether the president is convicted and removed from office or acquitted. One viewer wants to know if there can be a secret ballot in a Senate impeachment trial.

HONIG: It's very unlikely. So the Senate does have a set of rules but they're antiquated and they only answer some questions. But one thing those rules do say is the senators must announce their votes publicly. That said, the Senate can change those rules by a two- thirds vote.

So 67 senators say, we want to do this by secret ballot, they can go that way. It's extremely unlikely. And if you look at our historical precedent with the impeachment trials of Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton, the votes were public. So I fully expect to see all 100 senators at the end of this stand up in front of the American public and announce their verdicts. CABRERA: Another question asks, if new evidence comes out between now and a Senate impeachment trial, can that new evidence be used during the trial?

HONIG: Absolutely yes. There is no legal limit on the discovery of the evidence and the timing. When I was a prosecutor, we used to say we investigate up until the minute the jury gets back with a verdict. And I've had, by the way, last minute surprises for better and sometimes for worse, so you never know.

Now, remember, this is an ongoing investigation. We still don't have all the facts on the Ukraine scandal and that's in contrast to Bill Clinton, where Ken Starr delivered a report with a bunch of boxes of evidence and that was that. So what could change? Maybe Bolton, Mulvaney, Pompeo will decide to come forward and testify.

And if the Republicans push forward with this plan for a lot of witnesses and they force testimony from Hunter Biden and Schiff and the whistleblower, then the Democrats will have a good basis to say, well, now, we want our witnesses. So there's some real risk for Republicans if they try to drag this thing out.

CABRERA: There's so much to follow. Elie Honig, you are the best. Thank you. We'll see you back in the next hour for another round of questions. You can submit yours to Cross-Exam at cnn.com/opinion.

The House is just days away from this historic vote to impeach the president, and Speaker Nancy Pelosi will be back in the spotlight.

Still ahead, a look at Pelosi's balancing act to keep legislation moving while also impeaching President Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

CABRERA: For months, Nancy Pelosi, the House Speaker, was reluctant to support impeachment. But now, she is firmly behind it, believing President Trump's actions are too egregious to ignore. CNN's Tom Foreman has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. JERRY NADLER (D-NY): That is not a point of order. We move --

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): It is a point of order.

REP. LOUIE GOHMERT (R-TX): Well, I made a point of order --

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a rough week amid tumbling times, Nancy Pelosi is walking a tightrope on government --

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We're not going to have a shutdown.

FOREMAN (voice-over): -- on a new trade deal --

PELOSI: This alternative agreement is much better than NAFTA.

FOREMAN (voice-over): -- and on the impeachment probe of Donald Trump.

PELOSI: If we did not hold him accountable, he would continue to undermine our election.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That's really bull (INAUDIBLE).

(APPLAUSE)

FOREMAN (voice-over): It's been a long time coming for the Speaker of the House. Just nine months ago, Pelosi dodged the idea of impeaching Trump even in the face of intense pressure from progressives. Arguing it was too divisive for the country, she told the "Washington Post," he's just not worth it.

TRUMP: If you take a look at that call, it was perfect. I didn't do it. There was no quid pro quo.

FOREMAN (voice-over): By early fall, as the Ukraine scandal boiled up, polls showed even independents were warming to the idea that Trump should be removed from office. Yet Pelosi would say only that the White House could be entering a grave new chapter of lawlessness.

Then came the formal vote on an impeachment inquiry, Team Trump's effective pledge to stonewall congressional oversight, and Pelosi told a CNN town hall, she's had enough.

PELOSI: If we were not to proceed, it would say to any president, any future president, whoever she or he may be, Democratic or Republican, that our democracy is gone, the President is king. He can do whatever he wants in violation of the law, in ignoring the acts of Congress, undermining our system of checks and balances.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I just hope no Congress ever repeats what we're going through today.

FOREMAN (voice-over): To blunt Republican talking points about her party being obsessed with impeachment and to give her fellow Democrats cover, Pelosi seems to be everywhere, talking about legislation, policies, the work of Washington, even how she deals with Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How would you describe your relationship with the President?

PELOSI: Professional.

FOREMAN (voice-over): And she is hitting hard at anyone who suggests she simply hates him.

[18:35:00]

PELOSI: And I still pray for the President. I pray for the President all the time. So don't mess with me when it comes to words like that. FOREMAN (on camera): She is striking a very fine balance on a very

high wire to be sure, trying to not alienate the political left or center by working too readily with the White House on legislation while simultaneously doing battle with the President who rarely misses a chance to give her a shove from the right.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Let's take a quick look at the agenda in the House this coming week. Some big votes beyond impeachment!

On Tuesday, we'll see a vote on the spending deal designed to avoid a government shutdown. Wednesday, of course, is when the House of Representatives is expected to vote on impeachment. And then, Thursday, just one day after that impeachment vote, lawmakers are expected to pass one of the President's signature proposals, the USMCA trade agreement.

CNN's senior political analyst Ron Brownstein is here along with Washington bureau chief for the "Chicago Sun-times," Lynn Sweet.

Ron, Pelosi has sort of orchestrated a week in which --

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

CABRERA: -- the President is likely to get impeached and at the same time, get a big win on trade. What is she doing here?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, she's bracketed it. And, of course, you go back to the end of last week, the Democrats passed one of their top agenda items, probably the single bill that they'll talk about the most next fall, to try to reduce prescription drug prices by allowing Medicare to negotiate with drug companies.

Clearly, what she -- I mean, clearly, this is -- this is a strategy. And what she is trying to do is make the Democrats from the most marginal districts -- excuse me -- the districts that Trump carried more comfortable voting for impeachment by providing them evidence to show that they didn't come to Washington just blindly to oppose the President, that they were willing to work with him when he was working, in their view, in the national interests, and they're willing to stand up with him -- to him when he is not.

And I think that is clearly the message that they're trying to send and one that will probably allow the vast majority of those 31 House Democrats in districts that Trump carried to vote for impeachment.

CABRERA: Lynn, do you agree? Is the point here to send these members home, especially those in the vulnerable districts, with the message that we can walk and chew gum at the same time?

LYNN SWEET, WASHINGTON D.C. BUREAU CHIEF, CHICAGO SUN-TIMES: Well, it probably would have been a good thing to do even without impeachment because the venerable Democrats have a lot to fight for in their re- election.

The attacks against them were started personally over the weekend by President Trump who sent out in a tweet the names and phone numbers of the Democrats in the 31 districts that he won where they also won.

And adding to that H.R. 3 which Ron talked about, the drug bill, you have, as you said, the budget bill, you have the Trump -- the Trump trade bill, which we do call his win, cannot pass without Democratic votes.

So it's a little trickier, I think, than when he wins, he has to win and thank the Democrats because there are Republicans who will oppose it. So that's pretty clever too by having that measure come out now. And I believe they also will probably have a defense authorization bill come out.

So, you know -- you know, there's an old saying. I'm sure both of you know it, and our audience might, good government is good politics. And in this case, where there's really no good impeachment, having these substantive measures come out at the same time certainly does help Speaker Pelosi keep her majority in the coming fight for the House.

CABRERA: Ron, the latest CNN whip count from those 31 Trump districts that Democrats now represent, 20 still undecided on impeachment, nine committed to voting yes -- at least have come out publicly saying so -- one committed to voting no, switching parties now -- that's Jeff Van Drew from New Jersey --

BROWNSTEIN: Right.

CABRERA: -- and one also expected to vote, Collin Peterson from Minnesota. Republicans expect a unity vote against articles of impeachment.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

CABRERA: What message does it send if Democrats aren't all unified?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, first of all, you know, the -- there's really no reason for them to come out until the very last minute, right? I mean, I would be surprised if many of them tell us what they're going to do because it just kind of draws the bullseye more precisely on your back and evident.

Look, I mean, there were Republicans who voted against impeachment in 1998 for Bill Clinton. There were Democrats who voted for impeachment for Bill Clinton.

In some ways, I think what's more striking is that we are seeing the entire Republican Party not oppose impeachment but kind of move off the initial position that some of them took that this is troubling but doesn't rise to the level of impeachment. Instead, we have people like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz and others basically saying there's no problem here. I mean, there's -- there's no issue. And, Ana, the -- to me, I mean, we are focusing on these 31 Democrats

in districts that Trump won. When Bill Clinton was impeached, there were 91 Republicans in districts that voted for him. All -- almost all of them voted for impeachment. And then, over the next two elections combined, '98 and 2000, seven of those 91 were defeated for re-election.

So my feeling is this is probably not going to be as big a factor in the 2020 election as many might now assume. And in fact, that the -- the trade deal and the drug bill might be more important votes in terms of who controls the House in 2020. But none -- I mean, it is the toughest vote for those Democrats in districts that voted for Trump, no question about it.

[18:40:08]

CABRERA: And I mentioned this a little bit earlier, Lynn, but I want to get your points specifically about Jeff Van Drew, the vulnerable New Jersey Democrat who is going to make this announcement apparently that he is switching to the Republican Party because -- in part at least because he's losing Democrat support in his district over impeachment.

How do you view this defection? Is it a bad look for the Dems, or is this just one man worrying about his own personal political future?

SWEET: Oh, I'll go with that. It looks extremely opportunistic. There is no reason at this juncture in time to announce a party change except for impeachment, and you don't want to get in trouble on a vote. That's hardly a profile in courage.

And I can make one real quick point to compare and contrast with Clinton, by the time Clinton was impeached in December -- and it will be -- if it -- I guess, now it will be Wednesday. If it was Thursday this week, it would be to the day, December 19, 1998.

The midterm election had happened already. And while Republicans controlled the House, they had just picked up five seats, five Democratic seats. So the pressure -- the election pressure this time is more real and is happening in more real-time than it was in Clinton.

And I, therefore, see why there's pressure, the pressure that you just brought up with this Van Drew who -- who is flipping parties. And that will be very telling to districts, to have to explain why you're going to become a Republican this week when the President is going to be impeached, and you want to defend him this week when you're not going to talk about whatever core policy issues you're disagreeing with.

I don't if this -- I'm not familiar with him to the degree that I know the -- you know, the granular parts of his district.

CABRERA: Yes.

SWEET: But that doesn't seem to be a good position to be in when you're making this flip.

CABRERA: I do want to quickly get in some additional new reporting we have this evening, and that is a group of freshman House Democrats, we're learning, are asking Speaker Pelosi to draft independent congressman --

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

CABRERA: -- Justin Amash as an impeachment manager from the House for the Senate trial. Reminder, Amash was a Republican and switched parties earlier this year after the Mueller report. He's now an independent. CNN reporting that Pelosi is, quote, highly unlikely to name Amash.

SWEET: Yes.

CABRERA: But, Ron, should she?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Well, look, those -- that's what those members want above all, is some bipartisan cover on this, and the fact that every Republican has kind of lined up does give them more anxiety.

I mean, we're going to see the opposite in the Senate when you're going to have some of the Republicans in the -- in the more marginal seats like Cory Gardner in Colorado and Martha McSally in Arizona and Susan Collins in Maine, being uneasy about, in essence, lining up on a party line vote to defend the President.

But there's no question that one of the things that would make those Democrats in the more marginal districts more comfortable is any indication of bipartisan cover. Amash could provide some of that, but obviously, giving such a high-profile position to someone who isn't in the party isn't an easy decision for the Speaker either.

CABRERA: Ron Brownstein and --

SWEET: One other quick thing --

CABRERA: Lynn, I got to run --

SWEET: If they do so --

CABRERA: Real quick.

SWEET: If they do so, he -- he could be at risk. It's a very risky move putting him in that position now.

CABRERA: All right. Lynn Sweet, I owe you first question next time around. I know there's a lot more to discuss. Thanks so much, both of you.

SWEET: Thank you.

BROWNSTEIN: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: We'll be right back. [18:43:21]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: It had all the promise of creating real change to combat the climate crisis. COP25, a summit of climate negotiators from almost 200 countries, was tasked with solidifying the rules of the 2015 Paris Climate Accord. But in the end, all that was accomplished was a compromise. CNN's Arwa Damon has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HILDA NAKABUYE, CLIMATE ACTIVIST, UGANDA: You've been negotiating for the last 25 years, even before I was born.

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hilda's generation does not deserve a crisis they did not create.

NAKABUYE: -- before you start, I am the voice of the dying children, displaced women, and people suffering at the hands of climate crisis created by rich countries.

DAMON (voice-over): She's at the forefront of the climate protest in her native Uganda, cleaning plastic filth out of Lake Victoria. When Hilda was just 10 years old, the change in climate dried her family's crops. There was no water for the livestock.

NAKABUYE: We didn't have enough food, and then we started to sell off our property to survive. I missed three months without school when the people were at school, so I had to stay home because my parents could not afford -- and it's too much. Then when you talk to people who are causing and then they're not listening, and then it feels like you're wasting time.

DAMON (voice-over): Words the big polluters don't want to hear or are turning away from. Despite all the signage declaring otherwise, these climate crisis negotiations feel less like they're about saving the planet and more like a battle between haves and have nots.

DAMON (on camera): A lot of this really driven by the youth, by those populations whose communities are already feeling the effect of climate change.

(CHANTING)

DAMON (on camera): The security is trying to keep control of this situation, trying to break this up.

DAMON (voice-over): But they won't give up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- people, you listen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Got no mercy (ph).

DAMON (on camera): How old are you here?

NKOSINATHI NYATHI, CLIMATE ACTIVIST, ZIMBABWE: Here, I was 12. So here's -- this was my profile there when we showed the video.

DAMON (on camera): And so, people were listening to you when you were 12?

NYATHI: Yes.

DAMON (on camera): Like these clips of videos you did, they made a difference.

NYATHI: Yes, they did.

DAMON (voice-over): Nkosi got a UNICEF grant to get a biogas plant for his school to convert waste into energy. His trip to the conference was his first time on a plane to address halls of power.

NYATHI: I also know that the magnitude of the danger, which is coming --

DAMON (voice-over): They heard his words, but he feels like they didn't listen.

NYATHI: And it -- it hurts. It hurts. It actually hurts. I'm not -- I'm not actually seeing, like, real action on the ground. But that's what I feel currently, that there's nothing which is being done.

[18:50:03]

DAMON (voice-over): Leaders are even getting a dressing down from those too small to reach the podium.

LICYPRIYA KANGUJAM, CLIMATE ACTIVIST, INDIA: This is not fair. Our leaders are just busy blaming each other, instead of finding a long- term solution.

DAMON (voice-over): This girl is smaller than the banner she's carrying, but the smiles belie the severity of these children's future.

Thirteen-year-old Mounir dreams of the stars. He wants to be a NASA scientist.

MOUNIR MBOGO, CLIMATE ACTIVIST, CHAD: If they really love us, they should act right now because the climate change project should be taken seriously. It's not a joke. It's about future generations and our living -- and our living on earth.

DAMON (voice-over): It's the children who are the ones having grown- up conversations.

NAKABUYE: I do this with all my heart and with love for the coming generation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

DAMON (voice-over): Arwa Damon, CNN, Madrid. (END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: "Saturday Night Live" is tackling what many people don't want on the menu this holiday season, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Another busy week in Washington means ample material for "Saturday Night Live." Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CECILY STRONG, ACTRESS: If Obama did half the stuff Trump did, he would be in jail already.

BECK BENNETT, ACTOR: Mm-hmm. The fact is Obama did way worse stuff than Trump every day, even -- and they didn't impeach him.

KENAN THOMPSON, ACTOR: Can you believe they didn't kill Obama?

(LAUGHTER)

THOMPSON: I thought they were going to kill him for sure.

STRONG: I don't like all the Democratic candidates, but I'd take any of them over four more years of Trump.

[18:55:00]

BENNETT: I don't agree with everything Trump is doing, but he's way better than any of those Democrats.

THOMPSON: You know who I'm starting to like a lot? That Pete Buttigieg.

(LAUGHTER)

BOWEN YANG, ACTOR: Dear gender-neutral spirits.

(LAUGHTER)

BENNETT: Dear original American Jesus.

(LAUGHTER)

THOMPSON: Dear historically correct Black Jesus.

(LAUGHTER)

BENNETT: Thank you for no more kneeling in the NFL. That was very hard for me.

(LAUGHTER)

THOMPSON: Thank you, Lord, for the not one, not two but three Black quarterbacks who have beat Tom Brady this season. YANG: Thank you for the Super Bowl halftime show and that's it.

THOMPSON: Amen.

CHRIS REDD, ACTOR: Amen.

EGO NWODIM, ACTRESS: Amen.

BENNETT: Amen.

STRONG: Amen.

YANG: Amen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: "SNL" also spoofed one of Washington's most famous couples.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENNETT: What I love about Kellyanne.

TEXT: A Conway Marriage Story.

BENNETT: She works so hard for her boss even though I hate his guts.

KATE MCKINNON, ACTRESS: He always leaves his coffee mugs around.

He actually always tells me what he thinks about me to my face.

George. George? Are you mad at me?

BENNETT: Oh, no.

MCKINNON: George Conway, do not subtweet me at the dinner table, please.

BENNETT: I love when she does poems on T.V.

MCKINNON: I love that he loves to read the DSM to find out what's wrong with my boss.

BENNETT: Narcissist.

MCKINNON: So do you have what you need for your piece?

SCARLETT JOHANSSON, ACTRESS: Piece? Oh, I'm not a reporter. I'm a therapist.

BENNETT: Oh, this isn't for like a book?

JOHANSEN: Oh, no. What you say doesn't leave this room.

MCKINNON: Then why are we doing this?

We're going to go. We have to go fight on "The View." BENNETT: Hon, I got to be down by 5:00 p.m. for dinner with Kathy Griffin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:00:00]