Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Military and Naval Academies Investigating Football Incident; Interview with Carly Fiorina; Disagreements Between Seema Verma and Alex Azar Affecting Trump Policies. Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired December 16, 2019 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:31:09]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: The Army and Navy are now conducting internal investigations after students were seen on live television making a controversial hand gesture this weekend. The signal looks like an upside-down OK sign, but it often is used offensively.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Like by white supremacist groups to indicate white power. We at CNN have decided not to show you the video of it. Let's go to the Pentagon. Ryan Browne joins us from there.
They're taking this incredibly seriously. And as I understand it, they are now -- the academies are now investigating, well, what was the intent of those individuals? Is that right?
RYAN BROWNE, CNN PENTAGON REPORTER: That's absolutely right, Poppy. Both academies -- the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, the U.S. Naval Academy at Annapolis -- have appointed investigating officers, launching formal investigations to ascertain what was the intent behind these gestures.
Now, again, coming at such a high-profile moment for both academies, usually typically an event that allows them to celebrate their heritage, the Army-Navy football game. And this distraction, the media scrutiny has led both academies to act swiftly.
In fact, the superintendent of West Point, Lieutenant General Darryl Williams, issuing a statement upon launching the investigation, saying that this was about -- that they made every effort to instill morals and responsibility in their cadets, and that they want to get to the bottom of this.
TEXT: West Point Responds: "The United States Military Academy is fully committed to developing leaders of character who embody the Army Values. I have appointed an Investigation Officer to conduct an administrative investigation into the facts, circumstances, and intent of the Cadets in question."
BROWNE: So, again, the academy is taking very seriously trying to emphasize that they try to develop leaders of character, embody Army values and they want to ascertain what exactly was motivating these hand gestures.
SCIUTTO: So, Ryan, there is a defense that's been posited here, that this was not the white supremacist hand gesture but it was kind of a silly -- part of a silly old college game here. I mean, explain that briefly, just for folks at home who might now know? And is that a credible line?
BROWNE: Sure. I mean, it's a game called the Circle Game. It's played by youths at college and high school and elsewhere, where basically you attempt to trick one of your comrades or colleagues to look at this -- to look at an OK sign outside their vision, and then you kind of punch them in response.
I've talked to a few military officers who say they still play that game, so it is possible that this -- that's what it was. But again, it really underscores why they need this investigation. They feel that they actually need -- what motivated those gestures is really the key question that remains unanswered at this time.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HARLOW: All right. Ryan Browne, thank you very much. Keep us posted on those investigations.
[10:33:34]
Ahead, the impeachment, of course, top of mind for a lot of folks including one voter who ran for president against President Trump. My one-on-one sit-down with 2016 Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina, who says it is vital the president be impeached.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Well, you've heard the president say, over and over, Republicans are more united than ever, as he faces impeachment. But I sat down with one of his Republican rivals in the 2016 election. Of course, no one will forget her reaction on the debate stage after then-Candidate Trump made a comment about her appearance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLY FIORINA (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Well, today, former Hewlett-Packard CEO, former presidential candidate Carly Fiorina is not only calling out the president, she is calling out her own party. We sat down with her in New York.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: Do you believe President Trump should be impeached and removed from office? FIORINA: I think he is going to be impeached, and I think he won't be removed from office --
HARLOW: Should he be removed from office?
FIORINA: -- I mean, I think --
HARLOW: If you were -- you ran for Senate --
FIORINA: Well --
HARLOW: -- if you were in the Senate --
FIORINA: -- again, it's a -- it's a hypothetical. I think it is vital that he be impeached. Whether removed this close to an election, I don't know. But I think the conduct is impeachable.
And what I regret is that the principles that are being debated in this impeachment trial -- separation of powers, abuse of power, obstruction of Congress -- those principles are not as immediate or intense as partisanship or people's belief that the policies that I care about impact me personally.
[10:40:09]
So for example, there is a large pro-life community in this country and they feel disrespected by the Democrat Party. And my prediction is they will stand by Trump through everything because that issue is not only important to them, but it's personal to them.
HARLOW: It is notable that you, a Republican who has run for office for the Senate as a Republican, for president as a Republican, who may run again as a Republican, is saying it is, quote, "vital that he be impeached." What are you hearing from your Republican friends in the House and the Senate?
FIORINA: I think --
HARLOW: What is your message to them?
FIORINA: I think my message is, in this country, hanging onto a job is not the most important thing. In this country, we don't pledge allegiance to a party or to a president. In this country, principles matter. And in particular, the principle that we have coequal branches of government and that no one is above the law, and that it is Congress' duty to oversee and to investigate.
HARLOW: What does the Republican Party today stand for?
FIORINA: I don't know. Loyalty to Trump, is what I think it stands for.
HARLOW: And what has --
FIORINA: Sadly, sadly.
HARLOW: -- what has the arc of the last three years --
FIORINA: Well, look --
HARLOW: -- taught you, and what do you want the party to be in five years?
FIORINA: The Republican Party -- the Republican Party was the party of Abraham Lincoln. I think -- I believe three things that I thought the party stood for.
Number one, everyone has potential. And we should not be defined by our circumstances. Number two, people closest to the problem know best how to solve it. And number three, power concentrated is power abused, always. It doesn't matter how well-intended the holder of power is, power concentrated is power abused.
Those are the things I believe. I don't know that the Republican Party believes in those things any more. They certainly don't act that way --
HARLOW: Well --
FIORINA: -- they used to be clear-eyed about the danger from Russia or China or North Korea. I don't know that they are any more.
HARLOW: If you do run for political office again, will you run as a Republican or --
FIORINA: I don't know. I don't know if I'm running, and I don't know if I will.
HARLOW: So has the party potentially lost you?
FIORINA: We'll see. I don't make rash decisions, but my party designation doesn't define me, honestly. It never has. I've never felt that the party was owed my loyalty. I do believe that in this country, citizens are sovereign, that we are actors in our own right. I have voted for Democrats in years past, it wouldn't be the first time, in 2020, if that's what I ended up doing.
HARLOW: Do you recognize the Republican Party right (ph) now (ph) --
FIORINA: I don't, actually. I don't. I have spoken publicly about the fact that in this country, we pledge allegiance to a flag and we pledge an oath of loyalty to the Constitution, not to a party and not to a president.
And so I think that's all about politics, the politics of winning. The party is focused on winning, just as Democrats are too, by the way. And so I think Republicans are behaving the way they do because they think it's going to help them win.
HARLOW: Did you, Carly Fiorina, vote for President Trump?
FIORINA: Yes, I actually did. And I've been very disappointed. I did -- I felt that Hillary Clinton also was corrupt -- HARLOW: Will President Trump get your vote in 2020?
FIORINA: Honestly, it depends who the Democrats put up and I won't go any further than that. For me, character matters, character is destiny for a party, for a nation, for a president. Conduct matters.
And some of this conduct, like publicly berating a decorated war veteran who shows up in response to a lawfully issued subpoena of Congress, I think that conduct is not just unbecoming. I think it's destructive to our republic.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: Carly Fiorina is out with a new book, "Find Your Way: Unleash Your Power and Highest Potential." You can hear our full interview with her -- a lot more on politics and leadership -- on my "Boss Files" podcast.
SCIUTTO: Yes, contradictory voice within the party.
[10:44:45]
Well, the infighting between two top officials on President Trump's health care team got so bad, they were called to the White House to work it out. Could their feud impact the president's health care agenda? Coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Health care is a critical issue -- we all know that -- especially for voters in next year's election, but two officials responsible for shaping President Trump's health care message are in the middle of a bitter feud right now.
SCIUTTO: For months now, the conflicts between Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Administrator Seema Verma, they have been feuding behind the scenes. Now their fight, breaking into plain view. Our Rene Marsh has the story.
[10:50:04]
RENE MARSH, CNN GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy and Jim, the ongoing feud has certainly caught the attention of the White House. And if the president's two top health officials don't work it out as they've been told to, it could further imperil the president's ability to make good on his campaign promises for health care reform.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALEX AZAR, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: So thank you all for joining us, and I'll now hand things over to Administrator Verma.
MARSH (voice-over): The bitter battle between two of President Trump's top health care officials is now out in the open. Health Secretary Alex Azar and the Medicare-Medicaid head, Seema Verma. CHARLIE DENT (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: I think it's
extraordinarily unusual for two top-level people.
MARSH (voice-over): It's been a series of tit-for-tat-incidents, a source close to Verma described the clash. Azar undercut her plan to replace Obamacare. Verma slammed his plan to lower drug costs right in front of the president. Then Azar tried to keep her from flying on Air Force One to this Medicare announcement championed by her team.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are making your Medicare even better --
MARSH (voice-over): Azar's aides, according to Politico, said there was no room on the plane.
The two also feuded over who would become Verma's chief of staff. That prompted a gender discrimination investigation by outside counsel that found no evidence of wrongdoing, the source days. Verma reports to Azar, and her allies believe he undermined her decisions in ways he would not for a man.
One criticism of Verma is she had no prior experience running a large government agency. A former department official who speaks with current staff said Verma is also criticized because she prioritizes her brand and sidelines key staff from decision-making.
The Department of Health and Human Services would not respond to specific questions about the feud but said, quote, "Secretary Azar's and Administrator Verma's top priority is to advance the president's health care agenda."
Adding fuel? A series of embarrassing headlines about Verma spending $3 million tax dollars on public relations firms to boost her profile, and a request for $47,000 in reimbursement for stolen jewelry and belongings while on a work trip. The department defended Verma, but an internal audit is under way.
DENT: The fact that these two people, who are charged with implementing health care policy, are at odds with one another, you know, certainly isn't helping the administration.
MARSH (voice-over): And that's the larger problem for the Trump administration.
TRUMP: Wow.
We're going to win with health care, repeal and replace that garbage known as Obamacare.
MARSH (voice-over): Trump's most ambitious health care promises, like replacing Obamacare and lowering drug costs, are stalled. A former agency official and a Verma ally told CNN they partially blame the feud.
(END VIDEOTAPE) MARSH: Well, in that White House meeting, mediated by White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney and Vice President Mike Pence, a senior administration official tells CNN it was made clear that the feud between the two must end. And the official believes the feud is now in the past. We will see -- Jim and Poppy.
HARLOW: Rene, thank you very much for that reporting.
SCIUTTO: Right now, in Europe and Luxembourg, the U.S., its World War II allies in Germany, gathering to mark the 75th anniversary of one of the most important battles of the war, the Battle of the Bulge. In the fight, U.S. troops stooped Adolf Hitler's last-ditch effort in the final months of the war to turn the tide.
HARLOW: This morning, Defense Secretary Mark Esper paid tribute to the thousands of troops who died in that attack, calling the Battle of the Bulge one of the greatest in American history. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is among the many dignitaries and politicians at the ceremony today, honoring those who fought.
[10:53:53]
Well, seven years to the day after the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary, a thrilling last-minute victory on the gridiron (ph) gives Newtown a reason to celebrate. more on that, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: The Newtown High School football team's incredible win in the state championship game this weekend was just extra-special for the entire community. That's because it happened on the seventh anniversary of the Sandy Hook shooting.
HARLOW: Wow. So you just saw quarterback Jack Street throw a Hail Mary pass in the final seconds of the game that was Andy (ph) -- that was, excuse me -- Riley Ward catching it, scoring the winning touchdown.
SCIUTTO: Well, imagine the emotion. Several of the team's players -- you see there -- they attended Sandy Hook as children, and the brother of one of the linebackers on the team was among the children who was killed in that massacre. You have to imagine his parents were there, watching this. Newtown last won the state championship in 1992.
HARLOW: Pretty great.
All right. Thanks so much for being with us today. We'll see you back here tomorrow morning. I'm Poppy Harlow.
SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto. "AT THIS HOUR" with Kate Bolduan starts right now.
[11:00:07]
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR, AT THIS HOUR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan --
