Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Historic Week As Trump Is Poised to Become Third President Impeached; Interview with Joe Walsh, Republican Presidential Candidate, Why Republicans Shouldn't Vote for Trump; Giuliani Admits He Needed Yovanovitch Out of The Way; Comey Admits to Sloppiness on FBI Warrant Process; Army And Navy Launch Probes into Hand Gestures at Game; Boeing's Stock Sinks on Report that 737 MAX May Be Scrapped. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired December 16, 2019 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Welcome back, you're watching CNN, I'm Brooke Baldwin. My next guest says President Trump is unfit and a danger to this country. And that is why former Republican Congressman Joe Walsh threw his hat in the ring as a 2020 primary challenger to the President. So Congressman Walsh, welcome back.

JOE WALSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Good to be with you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: You just saw my conversation with Poppy, her interview with Carly Fiorina making all kinds of headlines because you have Carly Fiorina saying again, quote, it's vital that the President be impeached. She went on to say, his actions were, quote, destructive to the Republic. Yet she has not ruled out voting for him.

WALSH: Brooke, it was incredible, because she had me at, hello, I was so ready to embrace -- I mean good for her for saying that Trump needs to be impeached. But if he needs to be impeached, that's because he's unfit. He's done something that goes against the Constitution. And then to say you still might vote for him, it makes no sense, but it's a reminder, Brooke, of how like cultish and strong his hold is over Republican elected officials.

BALDWIN: But why. I mean part of the reason Carly Fiorina explained to Poppy that she may or may not vote for him in 2020 is because she doesn't know who the Democratic nominee will be. Isn't that the issue with so many of these Republicans, there just like, well, I don't know who will be on the Democratic side, so I may hate his guts, but I still may vote for him.

WALSH: It's an easy out. But again it shouldn't matter, Brooke. Because I know Carly Fiorina believes that Donald Trump is unfit for that office. I believe that, I know Fiorina believes that, I know most of my former colleagues believe that. If you believe that, then it doesn't matter, right, who the Democrats nominate. Now, I know Biden would be more palatable for a lot of Republicans, and I think a lot of Republicans like Carly are waiting for it to work itself out. But no, you got to take a stand now and say, it doesn't matter, Trump's unfit.

BALDWIN: Well, how about where Americans are. You look at this new Fox News poll, 50 percent of respondents said that they would like him not only impeached but removed from office. And then an additional 4 percent said, yes, they would favor him being impeached but not removed from office. Bottom line, that's where the country is right now, and my question to you is, looking at you in your shoes, you're challenging him, why aren't other Republicans primarying him?

WALSH: They're afraid and they, Brooke, they think Trump will be gone in a year.

BALDWIN: They think he's losing in November of 2020.

WALSH: Yes, see here's like the deep dark secret, a lot of my former Republican colleagues want him to lose in 2020. They want Trump gone. They want the stench and the problem that Trump is gone, and they've made a bet that he's going to be gone in a year or so, so I'll keep my mouth quiet. I'll hide under this --

BALDWIN: Do you think that's smart bet, Joe Walsh?

WALSH: No, not at all, because I don't think Trump's going anywhere, Brooke. I think he's going to lose in 2020 in the primary or in the general. But he's not going to go away. He'll cause trouble. He doesn't care about the Republican Party. He'll grab Sean Hannity by whatever body part you want to grab Sean Hannity by, they'll start their own network. He'll grab his voters. Trump doesn't care about what happens to the Republican Party. That's why I think a lot of my former colleagues are really mistaken thinking they can just wait for the storm to grow.

BALDWIN: We've heard from Mitch McConnell obviously on this whole impeachment inquiry. He's saying he's coordinating with the White House on this. Lindsey Graham probably stating that he will not be a fair juror.

[15:35:02]

Where do you stand on that?

WALSH: I am so struck, Brooke, and wonderful interview with Debbie Dingle, Congresswoman Dingle, I am so struck by the difference in how -- and I'm a Republican -- how seriously Democrats are taking this vote, this whole process.

I mean their pain, this may not help them politically, but these Democrats are showing real courage. My fellow Republicans, former colleagues, I mean this is like a joke, it's like they just like they want to get it over with, they don't care about the Constitution. They don't even care about the gravity of this moment. They just want it done. BALDWIN: Is that fair for some of these Republicans, that they just

don't care?

WALSH: It's wrong. It's unfair, history is going -- Brooke, think about this. The President of the United States last night in an ugly fashion attacked the Speaker of the House. I mean, think about what he said, her teeth falling out of her mouth. May have been the ugliest, cruelest thing he ever said, and not one Republican that I've heard has publicly condemned that cruelty.

BALDWIN: I hear you saying that and I think so many times I've sat up and here and called the President out for just disgusting language toward humanity, but in particular a lot of women. I'm wondering from you and I hear from you saying, you think he'll lose, or a lot of your Republican colleagues think he'll lose in 2020.

WALSH: They want him to.

BALDWIN: But let's assume he gets impeached Wednesday. Let's assume that you know he doesn't go anywhere after this whole Senate trial, whatever that is, TBD, and we heard him last week talking about how there will be pay back. What does a post impeached, but not removed President Trump look like, act like, do?

WALSH: He's like an ill-behaved child, and if he gets away with this again, Brooke, between now and the 2020 election he'll do something worse. He'll do something bigger and even more problematic. That's why it's so important -- again, I'm a Republican -- what the Democrats are doing, calling him out on this. He pressured a foreign government to help him cheat in our next election.

BALDWIN: And a phone call and the day before was when the Mueller investigation had just ended.

WALSH: He got away with that.

BALDWIN: Last question, what do you think President Trump's legacy will be?

WALSH: The destruction of the truth. Plain and simple, Brooke. Almost every word out of his mouth is a lie. I don't care what your politics are, that should bother all of us, he's destroyed the truth.

BALDWIN: Former Congressman Joe Walsh. Thank you very much.

WALSH: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Good to have you on. Good to have you back.

Coming up next, former FBI Director James Comey now admits to, quote, real sloppiness in the way some of his agents handled the Russia investigation. So let's talk about that.

Also, just in, Rudy Giuliani makes clear his motivation for ousting the former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, the stunning comments to "The New Yorker" next. [15:40:00]

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

BALDWIN: This just in, Rudy Giuliani just talked to "The New Yorker," and the President's personal attorney could not have been more frank about why he worked to push out Marie Yovanovitch from her position as U.S. ambassador to Ukraine. Yovanovitch is a respected career diplomat who served ambassadorships under three presidents. Remember she testified in the impeachment inquiry that she was forced out in May.

So let's go straight to CNN crime and justice reporter Shimon Prokupecz. Shimon, so what exactly did Giuliani say?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, forced out, Brooke. You know just to remind folks, she was forced out based on what she believed was a lot of false narratives, false information that was put out there by people in the Ukraine, by Rudy Giuliani. Made its way to the President and then ultimately, she was recalled and removed.

And this is really a stunning admission you know I think in reading this from Rudy Giuliani, when he was interviewed by "The New Yorker." And what he basically says that he admits to the entire thing. Saying that I believe that I needed Yovanovitch -- this is the Ukrainian Ambassador -- out of the way, he said. She was going to make the investigation difficult for everybody.

And, of course, he's referring here to the investigation into the Bidens. This is exactly what the Southern District of New York, the U.S. Attorney here is investigating. Why did they remove her? The removal of her and the facts surrounding that are mentioned in the indictment of the associates -- Rudy Giuliani's associates. They were just indicted in the last few months. That investigation very much ongoing.

And I think anyone you ask -- lawyers that I've read this quote to, they're just floored by it. It is an admission in some ways, and it's also, he is saying this in the middle of this investigation --

BALDWIN: Stunning.

PROKUPECZ: -- something, that the Southern District of New York and the FBI is looking into.

BALDWIN: Yes.

PROKUPECZ: It really is shocking but not probably surprising because it's Rudy Giuliani but for his lawyer, you know, certainly is going to make his job a lot much, much harder.

BALDWIN: Added to the bucket of current investigations.

PROKUPECZ: Yes. BALDWIN: Let's switchgears and talk about fired FBI Director James

Comey. Let me just set this up for everyone. He admitted that he was wrong about his confidence in his teams and the FBI processes used in the Russia probe. And so the Department of Justice Inspector General found the investigation was launched without political bias, but he condemned 17 major omissions and inaccuracies specifically involving those surveillance warrants. And Comey said this about the IG, Michael Horowitz.

[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]

JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: Yes, he's right, I was wrong.

[15:45:00]

I was overconfident in the procedures that the FBI and Justice had built over 20 years. I'm responsible -- that's why I'm telling you, I was wrong, I was overconfident as Director in our procedures, and it's important that a leader be accountable and transparent.

How did this happen and is it systemic? Because that's the scariest thought.

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS HOST: If you were still there and all of this came out, and it turned out it happened on your watch, would you resign?

COMEY: No, I don't think so. There were mistakes I consider more consequential than this during my tenure. And the important is to be transparent about it and then look to fix it and explain it to the American people how you fixed it.

[END VIDEO CLIP]

BALDWIN: So what exactly is he saying he was wrong about? What did he fail to do?

PROKUPECZ: Failed to supervise the team that was doing the Russia investigation and not knowing more information, really about where the information was coming from, what they were putting in these FISAs. What the management, the structure, the way they designed, they put together this team. It seemed -- and this is something that the Inspector General was critical of is that a lot of people didn't know what was going on. So you had a lot of the line agents, the lower level agents that were dealing with informants and dealing with Christopher Steele, and they were using that information, putting it into FISA.

But it would appear at least Comey it would seem didn't know a lot of what was going on, on the day to day. And what was probably the biggest, if not one of the biggest investigations for the FBI ever. It almost seemed that as if Comey wasn't aware of everything that was going. And that's not uncommon for an FBI Director because he shouldn't know everything, he doesn't need to know everything. But I think that's what he's essentially saying that he should have known more. And I also just think that you know he was so defensive of what was going on at the time even after he was fired. He was protecting a lot of the parts of the investigation that we now know the Inspector General found some issues with how the FBI was conducting.

BALDWIN: Yes. Shimon, thank you very much.

Just into us here at CNN. The White House just responded to Senator Chuck Schumer's demands for the Senate impeachment trial. We'll have that for you ahead.

And students are under investigation after they were seen making hand gestures on camera at the Army/Navy football game over the weekend. Was it racist? Was it totally innocent? We'll explore.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

[15:50:00]

BALDWIN: The U.S. Military and Naval Academies have both launched internal investigations after these cadets and midshipmen were caught making these controversial hand gestures at the Army/Navy football game over the weekend. There's all kinds of interpretations to this. Some saying it's just an OK symbol, others believe it is a sign associated with white nationalists. CNN's Ryan Browne is live at the Pentagon on this. And, so Ryan, you tell me, where do these investigations stand?

RYAN BROWNE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, both the U.S. Military Academy at West Point and the U.S. Naval Academy have formally appointed investigative officers to look into this, and they're going to try to ascertain what was the intent behind flashing of these gestures?

Now of course, the Army/Navy game is typically a great showcase for these military academies. And unfortunately this incident has drawn a lot of negative attention to both service academies. So they really want to get to the bottom of this. The investigation is going to try to find out what was motivating this?

Of course, there are several type explanations that people have been kind of speculating on. One, is that this is a gesture associated with white nationalist groups. The Anti-Defamation League believes in certain cases it can be used to symbolize white nationalism. Others have talked about a game that younger people play called "the circle game."

So there's a lot of possible investigations here. and that's what these investigations are going to try to get to the bottom of it.

BALDWIN: All right, Ryan, keep us posted. Ryan Browne, good to have you on.

We are moments away from the closing bell. Boeing stock has been dropping all day. We're waiting for the company to announce what's in store for the 737 MAX jet. Also ahead, Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer lays out his case this

afternoon for calling new witnesses in the Senate impeachment trial of President Trump. And the White House has just responded.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

[15:55:00]

BALDWIN: Boeing stock taking a big dip today down more than four percent just minutes before the closing bell. This comes as sources tell CNN the airline manufacturer could announce a decision about the future of its controversial 737 MAX jets by the end of the day. Boeing is considering reducing or suspending production of that particular aircraft.

Of course, that had been grounded after those two fatal crashes that killed 346 people. Last week Boeing met with FAA officials and learned that the 737 MAX likely won't be cleared to fly this calendar year. We will not get word of Boeing's decision until after the U.S. markets close.

And just a programming note for you. Less than two months before first votes are cast in Iowa and New Hampshire please be sure to tune it to the final Presidential debate of this year. Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Pete Buttigieg, Andrew Yang, Amy Klobuchar, and Tom Steyer will all be on stage. They will face off. That will be live from Los Angeles this Thursday night starting at 8 PM Eastern right here on CNN.

Thanks so much for being with me here on this Monday afternoon. We'll be back tomorrow, in the meantime, let's go to Washington. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Democrats on the judiciary committee suggesting today that the President's crimes are punishable by prison time. THE LEAD starts right now.

Senator Schumer wants witnesses. President Trump claims he'll do whatever. And Senator McConnell says he's coordinating with Trump. So what will the Senate impeachment trial actually look like as the jurors prepare to consider what Democrats --

[16:00:00]