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Trump Sends Scathing Letter To Pelosi On Impeachment; Trump Holds Press Briefing; Schumer Calls Out McConnell On Senate Trial Witnesses. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired December 17, 2019 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He says, quote, "You have cheapened the importance of the very ugly word 'impeachment."
Then he later says she is violating her oath of office, calls this an invalid impeachment and says that "she dares to invoke the founding fathers in pursuit of this yet her spiteful actions displayed unfettered contempt for America's founding."
He says, "Her conduct threatens to destroy that which our founders pledged their very lives to build."
He then goes on to reference, Brooke, something we've heard from the speaker several times, where she says she actually prays for the president.
He said, "Even worse than defending the founding fathers, you are offending Americans of faith, by continually saying, "I pray for the president," when you know this statement is not true, unless it is meant in a negative sense."
He says, quote, "It's a terrible thing you are doing, but you will have to live with it, not I."
Then he goes on to break down both of these articles against him, of course, abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. He's defending his call with the Ukrainian leader.
And, Brooke, we're still reading this the entire letter. But it's a scathing response from the president, sending to the House speaker, one we haven't seen him do since this inquiry went on to this length, sending an entire letter.
The question is if this will be the president's only response, if he'll address it as he's now meeting with the Guatemalan leader and with reporters right now in the Oval Office.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Kaitlan, I just got handed this letter. You're not kidding about how long it is. We thought 124 tweets were a lot the other day.
COLLINS: Yes.
BALDWIN: Right? The other day. This is -- airing grievances is precisely right.
Let me ask you this. Is the thought from the White House that this is somehow going to stop -- you know, the train's rolling down the tracks. This impeachment vote is happening. Is it the thought he's trying to stop this or just his final grievances airs before the big day?
COLLINS: You've heard the White House continue to that they're looking forward to the Senate trial. They don't feel they were treated fairly in the House. Of course, they refused to send a White House attorney or recommend witnesses or cross examine the witnesses called by Democrats.
This seems to be their defense to what the House has done. Essentially, it's a forgone conclusion at the White House that the president will be impeached when they take that vote tomorrow.
What you see behind the scenes in recent days is they're trying to get skeptical, potentially vulnerable Democrats to side with them. Though, as we've seen playing out today, that list of Democrats who are in conservative-leaning districts are only saying, yes, they are going to vote for impeachment. This is the president's response going on.
And, Brooke, one line, to give an example of the kind of tone in this letter, which we'll read in full after this, he says, "More due process was a afforded those accused in the Salem witch trials."
We've seen the president tweet that before but this is on official White House letterhead where the president is saying that to the House speaker, saying, "It's an illegal partisan attempted coup," and, of course, just going after her multiple times.
And then said he thinks he has "no doubt the American people will hold Democrats responsible for this during the 2020 election." Quote, "They will not soon forgive your perversion of justice and your abuse of power."
BALDWIN: Wow. Kaitlan, I'm going to let you keep reading. We're all reading.
John Avlon, Jen Rodgers, as I'm -- glancing at these lines, it's like you took all the tweets and strung them all together. That's what we have from this president, who, by the way, had tweeted, bring it, impeach me.
What do you make of this?
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I want to be really clear. I've read through quickly all six pages. This is unhinged. This is an unhinged rant from the president of the United States on White House letterhead.
It's clearly something he dictated, at least in part. It's got a lot of his greatest hits from his campaign speeches and elsewhere. This is the definition of not presidential. He is venting his spleen
in public, but with the weight of history behind it. And he's making a series of statements that are both not true, reversals of fact of one of his classic moves, project and deflect. We see it over here, he's quoting certain congressmen, cursing.
He says, "You are the ones interfering in America's elections. You are the ones subverting America's democracy. You are the ones obstructing justice. You are the ones bringing pain and suffering on our republic for your own selfish personal and political gain."
The president of the United States dictating to staff presumably over objections and better judgment. This is unhinged.
JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: There's a reason that defendants don't speak for themselves. They speak through lawyers only. And this is the reason. When you talk, you admit things you shouldn't and reveal who you really are. And that's what he's doing here.
There's things that can be used. Once again, he describes his conduct as innocent. He describes the call on July 25 as --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Can it be used against him?
RODGERS: Exactly. I'm saying he again continues to say essentially to the American people, I will continue to behave this way. And that's what he's saying to the Senators. I think Republican Senators will be very, very unhappy with this, because it again puts it right in front of them.
Here's president not only committed a grave misconduct and abuse of office but he is telling us all, don't be surprised when I keep doing it every minute I sit in the chair of the president.
(CROSSTALK)
[14:35:04]
BALDWIN: Hand on one second. President Trump.
Is he speaking?
Hang on. We thought we had him. Hang tight.
Talking about this letter -- OK. Now got the president.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are you going to watch the House proceedings tomorrow?
TRUMP: I haven't been watching it. I've not seen it.
But it's a hoax, the whole impeachment thing is a hoax. We look forward to getting on to the Senate.
We're not entitled to lawyers. We're not entitled to witnesses. We're not entitled to anything in the House. It's a total sham.
When you have a guy like Shifty Schiff go out and make up a statement that I made, he said, this is what he said, but I never said it. He totally made it up.
In Guatemala, they handle things much tougher than that.
And because of immunity, House immunity, because of immunity, he can't be prosecuted. He took a statement, totally made it up. It was a lie. It was a fraud. And you just can't do those things.
Look, this has been a total sham from the beginning. Everybody knows it. I've never seen the Republican Party so united. We've got, as far as voters, got 100 percent of the vote.
I believe the Senate is equally as well united. I watched Mitch McConnell this morning. I watched numerous people last night, Senators, and I think we're equally well united. They know it's a hoax. It's a witch hunt.
And it's just a continuation. It's been going on now almost three years. And probably started before I even won the election based on what we're finding out with the insurance policy quotes and other things. So it's a disgrace.
Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Will you let Senator McConnell decide on witnesses and --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Yes. He can decide.
And also have to decide when we're taking the vote for the USMCA. A very big, important deal. Very, very important deal with Mexico, Canada, ourselves. And we have to decide whether or not that comes first or second. To me, I'd let the Senate decide on that.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. President, you take any responsibility for the fact that you are about to be impeached?
TRUMP: No. I don't take any. Zero. To put it mildly.
They took a perfect phone call that I had with the president of Ukraine, an absolutely perfect call. You know it. They all know it. Nothing was said wrong in that call. To impeach the president of the United States for. That is a disgrace and it's a mark on our country. Tell you what. Other presidents, in the future, unless they do
something about this, other presidents are going to have to live with this. And every time they do something that's a little bit unpopular, a little bit strong, even if they're 100 percent right -- because I've done a great job.
When you look at the kind of jobs we've created. Look at the economy we've created. Look at rebuilding the military. Taking care of the vets. You just take a look at what we've done with choice, Veterans Choice. With accountability in the vets. With what we've done to protect our Second Amendment and so many other things. Nobody's done as much as I've done in the first three years.
Thank you all very much.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. President --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP; Thank you.
BALDWIN: OK. So this is the president sitting there alongside the Guatemalan president there at the White House.
Two points, as we've just received copies of this letter that he has sent Speaker Pelosi. He said the bit of news on whether or not they'll call witnesses, he said, "I'll let Leader McConnell decide on witnesses."
And again keeps going back to calling that July 25th phone call with his counterpart in Ukraine in which he asked for a "favor," he keeps calling it perfect.
Kaitlan Collins is at the White House for us.
Kaitlan what did you make of that?
COLLINS: The president making no next there, Brooke, of the letter the White House just released to the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi denouncing impeachment. He's saying he hasn't been watching today. Doesn't know if he'll watch tomorrow but looking ahead to the Senate trial and echoing what you read in the letter. Doesn't think he got a fair shake.
Note, when the House Judiciary took over, they invited the White House council to represent the president or have an attorneys come, call their own witnesses but the White House refused, arguing it was too late by that point, they wouldn't be able to afford a fair hearing when it came to that.
The president said Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, can decide if they want witnesses. Senator McConnell said he does not want witnesses, something he rejected today after Schumer proposed as much. The president will go along with that. Whether or not that sticks is something we'll report out if that's something the president stands by.
But, Brooke, going back to this letter he sent, it is essentially like reading the presidential tweets, but put on official White House letterhead and sent to the House speaker hours ahead of in a vote scheduled for tomorrow where officials say they already essentially know the outcome.
You are reading the president is not happy about being impeached and obviously, reading every word of this, he said, "You have cheapened the importance of the very ugly word 'impeachment,'" with an exclamation point in this letter to Nancy Pelosi.
[14:40:13]
BALDWIN: Kaitlan, stand by.
I still have John Avlon, Jen Rodgers,
Jeffrey Engel, I keep seeing you shake your head.
I'm looking at you, John Avlon because you read this letter. You called the president unhinged. Kaitlan is right, a bunch of tweets and his greatest hits.
And the way he framed it, didn't mention the letter specifically in that press avail, the way he closes this whole letter is I'm basically doing this to prevent this from happening to any other president to come after me. What he just said. Which is?
AVLON: The most high-minded argument he can make and utterly undercut by the total, say it again, unhinged and embarrassing nature of this letter.
He made the job of the Senators there to defend him much more difficult.
BALDWIN: More difficult.
AVLON: Because you can't read this letter and say this is simply a difference in communication.
This is a tantrum being done on White House letterhead. And he lied to the American people again, when he said we weren't permitted to have legal representation. They refused it. He said it's a hoax, a sham. It's a constitutional process enshrined in the Constitution. Don't forget that.
He's making the situation worse. He's getting emotional gratification out of venting his spleen but he is debasing the office of the president and the Senators who read this will be concerned about his mental state in private.
BALDWIN: Yes, yes.
But, Jeffrey Engel, I pose this to you. What difference does it make, end of the day, for Republicans who, thus far, stood in line with this White House and their Senate majority leader? What difference does it make?
JEFFREY ENGEL, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Probably no difference in terms of their vote. The question, whether the optics of this going forward.
One of the reasons of previous impeachments were recognized as legitimate by the American people was because they gave the appearance of being legitimate.
Sometimes a show trial is necessary if you know the outcome. The show trial is meant to designed to determine and show the power of the state to operate along certain procedures.
So I think the Senators who are at most risk in this process, the ones who feel they have to weigh their vote carefully, they would like this to be over as quickly as possible and with as little flame as possible.
Much so in the way that Bill Clinton handled his impeachment. We know that Clinton was completely obsessed with impeachment during the time he was in office. In fact, at one point, during a diplomatic meeting, I believe with Israelis if I'm not mistaken, actually kept writing the word impeachment, impeachment down on the paper. It's all he could think about.
But never said that publicly. He gave the American people the appearance, A, he was doing his job and, B, that this was a hoax in the sense he's not going to dignify it with a response, let his lawyers deal with it.
This is clearly not the way President Trump is approaching things. He's continuing to make sure this is a live issue no matter what happens going forward.
BALDWIN: We talked to folks on the inside during the Clinton impeachment and they really tried to keep church and state separate. Govern and letting the folks dealing with impeachment deal with impeachment.
With regard to President Trump, if he's looking forward to this Senate trial, why won't the White House, to you guys, let witnesses testify, do you think?
RODGERS: Because they tonight want the evidence to come out. Right?
(CROSSTALK)
RODGERS: They don't want --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: But if they have nothing to hide --
AVLON: This is not that complicated.
BALDWIN: If they have nothing to hide, why not bring it forward? (CROSSTALK)
RODGERS: He wants to focus on the phone call. All he wants to talk about, the phone call.
BALDWIN: That was perfect.
RODGERS: He wants to pretend there were not a dozen witnesses who came forward to talk about the exchange for aid and these things and even more important witnesses still sitting out there, like Mulvaney, who can really give us the inside scoop about what Trump was doing. They don't want that to come out. He wants to focus on the phone call and leave it at that.
As the public goes, so the Senate Republicans will go. And people start to think, what does it mean --
(CROSSTALK)
RODGERS: Eventually, yes.
People know, just as part of their everyday lives, when someone acts this way, it's because they have something to hide.
BALDWIN: This is the same president who said when running I can walk down Fifth Avenue and shoot anyone and nothing's going to happen to me.
AVLON: Right.
BALDWIN: He got elected.
AVLON: Lawyers made that argument in one procedure around this.
BALDWIN: Exactly.
AVLON: But that indicates a real problem. Right? On one hand, the president is calling it a hoax, saying I have to defend myself for future presidents. This is about the precedent being set.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Just a second. Here is Senator Schumer.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Anyone in America watching this would draw the same logical conclusion, that the president has something to hide and Republican Senators, too many of them are intent on helping him hide it.
[14:44:57]
It appears Leader McConnell, after going on FOX News, has already made up his mind about the Senate impeachment trial. It's clear that Senator McConnell wants to use the Senate to help participate in a cover-up.
Today, he was asked - here, I believe, he was asked, are you an impartial juror.
What did he say? What was the word?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Asked about Americans concern about being impartial --
(CROSSTALK)
SCHUMER: Asked if he was an impartial juror and seemed to proudly say, no.
I would ask every one of our Republican colleagues, do you want someone who proudly says they are not impartial, to be on a jury judging high crimes and misdemeanors, serious charges against the president of the United States?
And furthermore, we have not heard a single argument from Leader McConnell as to why the witnesses we have requested should not come forward. He goes back to 1999. He talks about other extraneous things.
Leader McConnell, I'm asking you. Come to this microphone and give an explicit reason why Mulvaney or Bolton or Blair or Griffin shouldn't testify. One explicit reason. Not what happened 20 years ago. But an explicit reason now.
Why is the president, why is the Republican leader, so afraid to have these witnesses come testify? They're members of the president's own staff. They are his people. Shouldn't these four aides be able to defend President Trump? Under oath? In a Senate trial?
Shouldn't the president of the United States, if he has a reasonable defense, use the opportunity to present evidence to clear his name and to have witnesses testify to the president's innocence?
What is Leader McConnell afraid of? What is President Trump afraid of? The truth? The facts?
The American people understand what's happening here. New ABC/"Washington Post" poll shows today, seven out of 10 Americans believe the witnesses should testify, 64 percent of Republicans believe the witnesses should testify.
When 64 percent of Republicans believe the witnesses should testify, our Republican Senators are going to -- when they go back home will be asked a whole lot of questions.
Did President Trump -- by the way, they're trying to say the Senate, the House didn't make a strong case. They made a very strong case. That's why President Trump and Mitch McConnell are so afraid to have these witnesses testify. If it was a weak case, they wouldn't mind.
So if President Trump and Senate Republicans are trying to conceal evidence and block testimony, it's probably because -- it's probably not because the evidence is going to help their case. It's because they're trying to cover up. Senators who oppose having witnesses and getting documents have to
explain why less evidence is better for the president than more evidence.
Senator Durbin?
SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Thanks, Chuck.
This would be the third time in the histories of the United States where there's actually an impeachment trial in the United States Senate. As you recall, Richard Nixon, with the prospect looming of an impeachment trial resigned --
BALDWIN: All right. Listening to the minority leader on the Senate side. Chuck Schumer basically saying to Mitch McConnell, hey, where are you? Walk up to this microphone and you tell me why those four key witnesses will not testify in this Senate trial.
Let's pick up there with Manu Raju up on Capitol Hill.
Manu, I mean, between this Trump letter, which is blowing the minds of many and perhaps some Senate Republicans to now basically this dare from Chuck Schumer to Mitch McConnell, like, you've got to explain why you're not doing this. What do you make of it all?
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Republicans are drawing a line, saying that this process is going to be short. It's going to be over. And they've made the decision that the president's going to be acquitted.
There's really no reason for them to give in at anything, including what Chuck Schumer is demanding now, for the four live witnesses. And Mitch McConnell making it clear he is not impartial in this process saying he doesn't think the president did anything wrong.
[14:50:04]
And you mentioned the president's letter. Something Republicans on some level will point to and say the president made his case why he should not be impeached or convicted and removed from office.
You see the lines hardening as getting into the next phase of the impeachment. The impeachment trial, and as we get into, the historic votes tomorrow.
Now, the ultimate question will be, though, Brooke, whether or not there will be any Republicans in the Senate Republican conference who will break ranks. Ultimately, vote with Democrats on the floor to compel any of these witnesses to come forward and testify.
Because just 51 Senators can change the calculus in the Senate if they were to go that route, saying if they wanted to get a Mick Mulvaney or John Bolton to testify, they could essentially vote that way on the floor.
At the moment, those Republican Senator, a handful of Senators, who could break ranks, are not saying much of what they will do seeing if Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell to cut a deal to see how procedures play out. They are not showing their cards at all.
We have to see as the days go on if there's any appetite among the Senators to break ranks, to force testimony from some of these witnesses. But at the moment, the Republican leadership is drawing the line firmly.
Mitch McConnell is not afraid about coordinating with the White House and continuing do that and making it clear they are on the White House's side.
You are not -- we're not expecting any Republicans to break ranks in the House Republican conference tomorrow on impeachment and right now at the moment Senator Republicans are holding the line as well -- Brooke?
BALDWIN: Manu, thank you.
Back to the two of you.
John Avlon, you heard Manu. I mean, the big question is whether some of these moderate Republican Senators do break ranks when it comes to siding with Democrats, bringing in some witnesses that we just heard Chuck Schumer reiterate he wants.
He's saying that this -- this unhinged letter from the president won't really change things.
AVLON: I think it's probably too soon, because folks haven't read the letter yet. Obviously, positions are hardened. We're in positional bargaining. Especially in the Senate.
Sometimes party loyally asks too much. Senators like Romney, Cory Gardner or Susan Collins have to look at their conscience, as well as constituents. Do we want to throw up a roadblock before we make our decision?
The president is making it worse for himself. Don't normalize this letter. This is the office held by Washington and Lincoln. And he could have handled this as a version of Bill Clinton and compartmentalizing it. Saying this is a partisan side show. I'm not getting convicted or removed by the Senate.
I'll focus on the economy, what I've done for the American people, delivering the USMCA like I did. Instead, you get this. And that's because this is who he is.
RODGERS: I agree. This highlights something John said earlier, which is the breakdown of our institutions. One of the foundational democratic principles, separation of powers.
It started in the House long ago. Before impeachment, the House Democrats tried to do regular oversight duty in conjunction with the Mueller report and were road-blocked at every point by the White House. Republicans in the House rolled over and said, we won't stick up for
the House. The Senate is a different and traditionally more interested in standing up for themselves and their branch of government and co-equal status with the president and the executive branch.
The question is, will they do it here or also just roll over.
BALDWIN: Jeffrey, back to you, I'm left wondering, thinking of people wondering, whether on the left, right or center. You think back to Mueller and when Mueller ended, the very next day, the president was on the phone with President Zelensky of Ukraine asking for this favor.
You played it forward to tomorrow, the man will be impeached. The third president ever in the history of this country to be impeached. This letter happens. We don't know. We can't predict the future as far as how the Senate trial will go. We have a pretty good indication.
What do you say to the people watching just thinking, no consequences? Throwing up their hands in the air. What's the message?
ENGEL: You know, honestly, a genuine concern. It goes back to the point I made earlier. As long as a president appears to have 33 votes in the his or her pocket, there's no consequence. This impeachment has no teeth.
This is genuinely something the founder didn't anticipate because they were fundamentally against having parties and having a partisan rancor being something more important than the individuals doing their jobs.
One of the things that is fascinating, with all due respect to Senator Schumer, Senator McConnell gave us a reason he doesn't want witnesses. He doesn't think there's enough of a case to warrant the trial. That's not his constitutional role to determine. That's one thing that's really critical here.
[14:55:00]
Remember, everybody needs to stay in their constitutional lane. The House determines whether there's a problem to be investigated and have a trial and then go away. The Senate then steps in and does their job, which is to investigate the trial. Not to, frankly, disrespect the House's decision by not having a full and fair trial.
You know, again, if there's nothing that any president needs to fear, then more evidence should not be a problem.
I think, going back to your point, quickly, your point about him, President Trump, making this phone call so soon after the Mueller investigation --
BALDWIN: Yes.
ENGEL: -- one thing we see, especially in recent history, President Trump is actually not reviled more than previous presidents have been. People despised Barack Obama. People despised George W. Bush and Bill Clinton.
The difference between Bill Clinton and Donald Trump and the other two I mentioned, Obama and George W. Bush, is that you need a combination of being despised and having done something that will actually make the Senate, the House come for you with an impeachment trial. Clearly, what we've seen Donald Trump do in recent days.
BALDWIN: OK. Let me thank all of you. You've been extraordinary as we've gotten huge news over the course of last hour.
So much more to cover. Our CNN special coverage continues right after this quick break. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Back in a flash.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: We are back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Top of the hour here.
[15:00:05]
Addressed to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, this extraordinary jaw- dropping letter from President Donald Trump.
