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Christine Pelosi Discusses Impeachment and Nancy Pelosi Delaying Sending Articles to Senate; Ron Brownstein Concerned about GOP Defending Trump Rather Than a Fair Impeachment Trial; Mark Meadows Becomes 25th Republican Not Seeking Re-election in House; CNN Poll: Biden, Sanders, Warren Hold Top 3 Spots Ahead of Tonight's Debate. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired December 19, 2019 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[14:31:14]
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Now that President Trump has been formally impeached by the House of Representatives, the Senate is preparing for whether he should be removed from office.
Almost as soon as slamming her gavel, Speaker Pelosi says not so fast. She won't send the articles until she says it will be fair. Perhaps using the articles as leverage when negotiating the terms of the Senate trial.
Nevertheless, the speaker said she is proud of what her caucus accomplished last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): It really is interesting to see the response that we are getting, bipartisan across party lines. I, myself, want to say I have a spring in my step because of the moral courage of our caucus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Christine Pelosi, daughter of Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and also chair of the California Democratic Party Women's Caucus and author of "The Nancy Pelosi Way."
Christine, welcome back.
A lot of people dying to know, have you hopped on the phone with your mom in the last couple of hours, and how is she doing?
CHRISTINE PELOSI, CHAIR, CALIFORNIA DEMOCRATIC PARTY WOMEN'S CAUCUS: She's doing great. She's so proud of her caucus and busy passing the trade bill today and doing the -- the for the people press conference talking about the first year with this amazing freshman class invigorating the nation. So it's a very -- it's --
(CROSSTALK) BALDWIN: OK. They also impeached the president.
(CROSSTALK)
PELOSI: They did that last night and very quick to note --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Did she say anything about that?
(CROSSTALK)
PELOSI: Just -- we're proud of her. We're always proud of her but especially proud of her last night the way that she ruled them all with an iron grip down to that looking that her children know so well.
BALDWIN: Let me skip to that. Let me play that in case people haven't seen it.
Guys, roll the tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY PELOSI: Article one is adopted. The --
(SHOUTING)
NANCY PELOSI: The question is on adoption of article two. The question --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So it was -- it was the look when she was chiding her own party. Don't cheer, don't clap. Have you seen that look before, Christine?
PELOSI: Oh, I have seen it many times and we discussed in my book "The Nancy Pelosi Way," we talk when the five of us were growing up in San Francisco. Five kids born six years and one week apart. A lot of tussling for attention.
My mom could silence the lot of us with a single look and sometimes did and found it way more effective than raising her voice.
BALDWIN: Let me also ask about mom and Senate majority leader. Two of the most experienced politicians in all of Washington. They know how that city ticks.
On impeachment, the battle lines are drawn. Can you just let us in a little only their relationship? Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi have known each other for years.
PELOSI: Right. And worked together on bipartisan spending bills such as the one that's about to pass the Senate today. So I think that it's a little bit overblown to talk about all of the drama about holding articles of impeachment. I'm a former trial attorney. We have status conferences all the time.
You're trying to figure out, do we have witnesses. What's the schedule? One that allows me to figure how many people I need to engage on my legal team.
So I think that from a practical standpoint you're going to see first of all finishing the legislative business that always have to come first. Got to get the legislative business done and the president has to sign it. We avoid a shutdown and pass this trade deal and that gets done.
Then after that, they'll have a conversation about what to do and what's that Senate trial is going to look like, and then you'll know who the House managers are going to be.
[14:35:09]
I think we need to, as my mom says to me all the time, take a breath. Be calm. We have a plan. Let the processing work. And within a matter of days we're going to know.
BALDWIN: You may see this practical, Democrats may see it as practical, Republicans see it as politics. We'll talk about that.
I want to flash the cover of the "New York Post" of the Nancy Pelosi up in case folks haven't seen it. Your mom's face's front and center. Not most flattering. You know, the headline, "It's your funeral," "Mistress Dresses in Black for Historic Vote."
When you first saw this what did you think?
PELOSI: What I though is what I tweeted. One of these is not like the other. If you put up every other newspaper in America, they talk about Trump being impeached.
I put it up for a reason to share with people the reason that Donald Trump thinks he's going to stay in power after next year and beyond is that he'll use misogyny and the right-wing media will back him up. They're trying to attack a woman for having done her job.
They could have said, this is just politics. Instead made a ghoulish reference.
When you look at the gender gap on impeachment, the numbers are overwhelmingly high among women in support of impeachment. I think a mistake for them to do that, crass, sexist and awful.
But the kind of behavior we've come to expect unfortunately from some of the president's right wing allies, and unfortunately, as the presidential candidates competing in the Democratic debate tonight can tell you, this is what he does to powerful women, and hopefully it will not be successful.
BALDWIN: As he attested last night, rally in Michigan, dishwashers don't work as well as they used to, because women tell him.
PELOSI: Well --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: I say this facetiously. Trust me --
(CROSSTALK)
PELOSI: Not the worst thing said last night.
BALDWIN: No. We had a conversation about John Dingell a segment ago.
Christine Pelosi, thank you so much as always for coming in and weighing it. I appreciate it. Thank you.
PELOSI: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Even though the House impeachment was successful, some question whether the impeachment process carries any weight. We'll talk about why the founding fathers never anticipated our current political climate.
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[14:42:01]
BALDWIN: As expected, the vote to impeach President Trump fell almost along party lines with all but three Democrats voting yes and every single Republican voting no.
It is that lock step we've seen by Republican leaders through every step of this impeachment process that is raising serious concerns from my next guest.
In a new opinion piece, CNN political analyst, Ron Brownstein, writes, "The decision by virtually all House Republicans to view their role as defending Trump rather than pursuing a genuine assessment of the underlying facts underscores how partisan imperatives have almost completely eclipsed any commitment to Congress' authority to check and balance the executive branch."
And Ron is with me now.
Ron, one of the --
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Hey, Brooke.
BALDWIN: The Poli-Sci professor, you interviewed said this is something --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Right - that the founding fathers didn't exactly anticipate. Can you first, talk to me about that. Also, what did you conclude as far as impeachment providing an effective check on the president?
BROWNSTEIN: To understand how different this is from the founder vision, consider the contrast over the last few weeks. First, a procession of national security professionals serving in Trump's own administration describe what happened in Ukraine as crazy, even a drug deal.
And then what did we see in the Intelligence and Judiciary Committees and again on the floor? Saw virtually no Republican, except Justin Amash, who left the party, vote against. But nobody criticized the underlying behavior. Every single Republican who spoke said there was no concern here about what John Bolton described as a drug deal.
That really is what the founders could not have anticipated. There were no political parties when the Constitution was written. They didn't really come around for another decade or so when the Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson split became more pronounced.
And they thought that institutional authority, institutional offsets, would provide the checks and balances that people in Congress would look to check the, you know, unwarranted expansion of executive power and vice versa.
They did not anticipate party and partisan considerations overriding the institutional authority to the extent we've seen over the last few weeks in this impeachment fight.
BALDWIN: Using this precious power of impeachment, does it no longer check the president? But rather will it embolden him, do you think?
BROWNSTEIN: That is the really big question. One thing we know about Trump, he's a student of power and more precisely a student of weakness. We've seen, every time he breaks a window, Republicans in Congress obediently sweep up the glass.
Why does he feel safe denigrating John Dingell? Because the earlier unimaginable things said about Gold Star families and a judge and John McCain received no real sanction in behavior from Republicans.
He is going -- if every Republican in both chambers votes to say they see nothing objectionable in this behavior, the lesson is Republicans aren't willing to cross him no matter what he does. And they'll wake up defending something more egregious than we saw in Ukraine down the road if they send that message to the White House.
[14:45:11]
BALDWIN: That's right. What happened the day after Mueller concluded? The phone call with Zelensky.
BROWNSTEIN: Exactly right.
BALDWIN: Let me ask you about Republican Congressman Mark Meadows. News of the day, fierce ally of the president, now becomes the 25th Republican not to seek re-election in the House. What does that signal to you?
BROWNSTEIN: The clear message is Republicans do not believe they're going to win back the House in 2020. You know, I don't think that is an unreasonable conclusion for them.
Donald Trump can win the Electoral College again. No question. But a much harder time winning the popular vote. And the national House race is more closely tied to the popular vote in effect than the Electoral College.
The fact so many senior Republicans are stepping down, and Mr. Meadows seemed headed for something in the Trump campaign or Trump White House, I think is a clear indication they realize they are facing long odds given the way Trump redefined the party.
Strengthening it in rural areas and non-urban areas but really an annihilation in metro areas, big suburban areas around cities around the country. Not only in traditionally Democratic areas but previously Republican areas, like Atlanta, Houston, Dallas.
And more suburban losses for them potentially in 2020 even if they regain some of the more marginal seats the Democrats won in 2018..
BALDWIN: Ron, good to see you as always.
For everyone watching, check out Ron's piece, CNN.com/opinion.
Ron Brownstein, happy holidays. Thank you very much.
BROWNSTEIN: Happy holidays to you.
BALDWIN: Thank you.
With just hours before the last Democratic debate of the year right here on CNN, Chris Cillizza joins me to break down where the candidates stand after this week. The hint is, there are some changes in the top five.
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[14:51:50]
BALDWIN: The final Democratic primary debate of 2019 is just hours away, and it will be the smallest debate stage yet. Just seven candidates.
This is happening as CNN has new polling among Democrats. Former Vice President Joe Biden, Senator Bernie Sanders and Senator Elizabeth Warren holding on to the three top spots.
CNN politics reporter, editor-at-large, Chris Cillizza, here with new power ranks.
What do you have?
CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER AND EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Brooke, every two weeks, Harry Enten and I go through and rank the 10 most likely candidates to become nominees.
Let's go through this quickly. Not a log of changes. Michael Bloomberg not in this debate and probably won't qualify for any if DNC keeps the criteria the way they are. He is on track to spend more than $1 billion on television. At 5 percent in our poll. A few national polls have him at 7 percent. Remarkable, given he's only been in the race a little while.
Everyone else clinging on. Andrew Yang will stay in. Cory Booker may not. Steyer is rich. Castro, maybe not. May slim down more.
The top five. It's more interesting.
Amy Klobuchar, at five, has a chance in Iowa keeping her in the top five. A lot of movement here.
I want to do two things. We moved Elizabeth Warren down and Pete Buttigieg down. Two and three respectively two weeks ago. Why? Still strong, Buttigieg in Iowa and pretty strong in New Hampshire and Iowa here. Both losing a little momentum. Buttigieg in slightly better shape in terms of early states.
Big gainer. Bernie Sanders. Look, had a heart attack on the campaign trail earlier this fall. A lot of people wondered would he keep running What will he do? He prospered. Numbers are up. Numbers look good in New Hampshire, Iowa and in Nevada, the third state that will vote in a caucus.
And number one, look, slow and steady may win the race. Joe Biden number one or tied for first in every ranking since entering the race. Yes, has weaknesses. But numbers are looking better nationally. In Iowa, in New Hampshire.
And his fundraising, I thought a huge problem. He had less than $9 million in the bank end of September. Now saying his fundraising, raised more than $50 million. More than he raised in the previous three months.
So tonight I expect one, two, to be really in the most prominent attacks. Remember, seen Elizabeth Warren. Got center of it. Buttigieg a pass in that last debate.
I think Biden and Buttigieg are the ones coming for the most scrutiny.
I think Warren will have a bounce-back debate. Mediocre in the last two. Keep an eye on Klobuchar. She's been a very solid debate performer.
Maybe with less candidates, more time to talk and maybe more time to shine -- Brooke?
BALDWIN: Everyone, find this debate this evening, "PBS News Hour"/"Politico" Democratic debate, live from Los Angeles. See it here on CNN and your local PBS station. Coverage starts at 8:00 eastern.
Chris, thank you. As we've said, battle lines drawn. A standoff erupted over the fate
of the president's impeachment trial in the Senate. I'll speak live with the Senator who wants the House to hold the impeachment articles.
[14:55:06]
Plus, we'll take you outside the Beltway for a look at what voters in Michigan really think about impeachment.
We'll be right back.
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[14:59:58]
BALDWIN: And we're back. Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
President Trump's hopes for a speedy impeachment trial may have run into a roadblock: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
After a largely party-line vote to impeach President Trump, Pelosi says she wants an assurance that the Senate trial will be a fair one.
