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Buttigieg A Big Target as Democratic Candidates Face Off in Debate; Was Amy Klobuchar's Debate Performance Enough to Push Her to Number One; Andrew Yang Talked of Being Only Person of Color on Debate Stage; Accident Involving 2 Carnival Cruise Ships in Mexico; Sarah Sanders Apologizes to Biden after Stutter Comment; What's Happening to Empathy in the Trump Era; Former White House Officials Fear Putin Behind Trump's Debunked Claim Ukraine Interfered in Election; Trump Administration Opposes New Sanctions Bill on Russia. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired December 20, 2019 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[14:30:00]
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: There are just 45 days left between now and the Iowa caucuses. Last night's Democratic debate was a huge opportunity for seven candidates to make their mark before the year wraps up.
And there were fireworks. Mayor Pete Buttigieg has been rising in the polls. Not surprisingly, he drew fire for his relative lack of government experience and big-dollar donors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): In the last debate, Mayor, you basically mocked the 100 years of experience on the stage.
And I have not denigrated your experience as a local official. I have been one.
MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG (D-IN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know - sorry.
KLOBUCHAR: I think you should respect my experience.
BUTTIGIEG: You actually did denigrate my experience, Senator. It was before the break and I was going let it go because we have bigger fish to fry but --
(CROSSTALK)
KLOBUCHAR: I don't think we have bigger fish to fry than picking a president of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: With me now, someone with a lot of experience on the debate stage. Todd Graham is a debate director at Southern Illinois University, Carbondale.
And so, Todd, welcome back.
Let's begin --
TODD GRAHAM, DIRECTOR, SALUKI DEBATE TEAM, COMMUNICATIONS STUDIES DEPARTMENT, SOUTHERN ILLINOIS UNIVERSITY, CARBONDALE: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Let's begin with who had a good night. You say both Senator Warren and Klobuchar stood out. Just heard Klobuchar go after Buttigieg on his experience, often touted at the voters' maybe second choice. Did she do enough to become number one last night?
GRAHAM: Very well might have. I liked Amy Klobuchar in this debate.
She was assertive without being aggressive. And anyone who's ever heard those two terms knows there's a difference. Assertiveness good, aggressiveness sometimes seen as pushy.
I thought Amy Klobuchar walked a fine line being able to insert herself into different topics, different arguments, without being mean or rude towards the other candidates.
And she did this in a way that actually highlighted some of the things she's accomplished and took away from perhaps like the experience of Mayor Pete Buttigieg. Also got under his skin a little last night. She had an excellent debate.
And began by the way, Brooke, with the first question. The only person who answered the impeachment question, which was, how can we change people's minds and get more people to believe that this impeachment should actually happen.
She was the only one that actually answered it when she talked, well, because we can prove that Donald Trump is hiding something by not letting the president's men speak and that, in fact, he asked a foreign government to look into a political rival.
All of the other candidates, all they talked about was Trump being a bad president. That's not an impeachable offense.
A good beginning middle and end. She had an excellent debate.
BALDWIN: You and I talked about it before, and a fan on the debate stage, Andrew Yang. Play this clip first. He talked about being the only person of color on that particular debate stage. Here we was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW YANG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's both an honor and disappointment to be a lone candidate of color.
I grew up the son of immigrants and I had many racial epithets used against me as a kid.
But Black and Latinos have something much more powerful working against them than words. They have numbers. The average net worth of households of a black, 10 percent. Latino, 12 percent. If you're a black woman, you are 320 percent more likely to die from complications in childbirth. These are the numbers that define race in our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Certainly, a powerful moment for him. But you tell me, Todd. Why has Andrew Yang always been one of your top debaters?
GRAHAM: The thing with Andrew Yang -- I'm non-partisan and have to watch each debate objectively and decide who I like in the debate. He hasn't given a bad answer in any debates I've watched.
The Yang Gang sort of adopted me online. No, no. I'm not part of your gang but I liked him in the debates because he makes sense. Makes good arguments. And usually there's something new.
Last night, he talked about how special needs is becoming the new normal in our country and we have to not just deal with the crisis but have to deal with the people with special needs. Not like they're a burden and not like they could be employed but treat them as human beings and with dignity and worth.
Every single debate Andrew Yang does something that impresses me.
BALDWIN: Wow. Todd Graham, not a member of the Yang Gang, despite the fact they want you. I hear you. Why we need you, non-partisan, going through the candidates each and other debate.
Good to have you on. Thank you very much. Talk in the New Year.
GRAHAM: Absolutely.
BALDWIN: Scary moment for passengers aboard two Carnival Cruise ships this morning. The Carnival "Glory" cruise ship was trying to dock at a port in Cozumel, Mexico, when this happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Video.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here goes. The windows.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that the --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh. He's going hit us next.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:35:00]
BALDWIN: Yikes. Not a good sound. The Carnival "Glory" running into the Carnival "Legend." "Glory's" deck was crushed. At least one person suffered minor injuries. CNN's Nick Watt is following this for us.
What happened?
NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Still no official word on the detail. I mean, what the cruise line tells us, Carnival "Glory" was maneuvering to dock when it made contact with Carnival "Legend." We spoke to some on those ships. They say announcements suggest maybe an issue with the wind or the current that led to this happening.
And these ships, Brooke, they are beasts. You know, the "Glory" capacity of about 4,000 people, 110,000-ton ship, a half-billion- dollar ship. Going full tilt, it'll stop at a distant of about a mile. Thankfully, that is not what was happening here.
They not calling it a collision, but an allision, a new word for me. That's when one ship is moving and the other stationary.
The video stunning. Also been watching video shot by passengers with pretty fruity language, way too blue for our air.
I mean, this was a scary moment. One passenger told us that it felt like a big wave was hitting the ship.
Carnival says they are assessing damage to both ships now and they don't think the seaworthiness of either vessel has been impacted. And told passengers to enjoy their day ashore and hoping to continue with their itineraries after this.
Listen, Brooke, this was not the nightmare before Christmas. This was the low-speed allision before Christmas. Good have been a lot worse.
As you mentioned, that one person injured as trying to evacuate a couple of decks aboard one of those ships -- Brooke?
BALDWIN: Low-speed allision.
WATT: Yes.
BALDWIN: Never heard of that. We wish that one passenger well.
Nick Watt, thank you for the update.
WATT: Thanks.
BALDWIN: Former White House press secretary, Sarah Sanders, is apologizing after mocking Joe Biden's stutter. So after yet another hurtful week of words, we'll talk about the empathy in the Trump era.
Plus, did Vladimir Putin actually influence President Trump to push a debunked conspiracy theory? A stunning new report coming up.
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[14:42:04] BALDWIN: Former White House press secretary, Sarah Sanders, did something her former boss almost never does, apologize. What's more here, her mea culpa was for former Vice President Joe Biden. It stems from the comment that the former vice president made during last night's Democratic presidential debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My wife and I have a call list somewhere between 20 and 100 people we call at least every week, or every month, to tell them I'm here. I give them my private phone number. They keep in touch with me. The little kid who says I -- I - I -- I-- I -- I can't talk, what do I do?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So Sarah Sanders tweeted a comment mocking Biden writing, "i have absolutely no idea what Biden is talking about."
To which Biden actually responded, saying, "i worked my whole life to overcome a stutter and it's my great honor to mentor kids who have experienced the same. It's called empathy. Look it up."
Thus, then triggering this response from Sanders, quote, "i actually didn't know that about you, and that is commendable. I apologize and should have made my point respectfully."
Sanders put down as Trump implied late Congressman Dingell might be in hell. He said that this week at that Michigan rally. And as Republicans liken impeachment to Jesus Christ and the bombing of Pearl Harbor.
What a week it's been.
CNN contributor, Frank Bruni, is a "New York Times" columnist.
Just talking about where we are in America.
FRANK BRUNI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.
First, let's come back to Sarah Sanders' apology in a second.
The fact we are in a place where the former press secretary of the White House felt emboldened to say what she did about a former vice president, says what?
BRUNI: It says we're in a really low place. And she's not just the former White House press secretary but a woman who identifies proudly as a Christian. The daughter of an ordained Southern Baptist minister. If this is the way you practice or model religiousness, I'm baffled. But it is emblematic of the tenor of the political debate.
BALDWIN: Do you think had the former vice president not had a stutter and had that not been something he dealt with, she would have even said, sorry? BRUNI: No. I'm not sure she would have. She was waging political
warfare as it's done today. I feel empathy in America is an endangered emotion, yes.
BALDWIN: Yes. Whether you are left, right, center. Like, everyone in this country has somehow been impacted by this Trump presidency. I'm wondering how one overcomes that?
BRUNI: I don't know. But it is so important to mention the Trump presidency in this context because he doesn't influence everyone's behavior but he sets the tone.
What she did with that tweet was very much of a piece the way he was tweeting Maria Yovanovitch, the former ambassador, when testifying. The way he and his people treated Colonel Vindman. She was doing the exact same thing.
[14:45:08]
It's a part of something broader. Donald Trump did not create it, in all fairness, but has accelerated and amplified.
Look at survey data or listen to people around you, we used to have political opponents. Now, more and more people see politics as the battle of good versus evil.
BALDWIN: Yes.
BRUNI: More and more people say, i see people on the other side of the aisle not as people with a different viewpoint pressing a different agenda but as agents of evil, of people who would harm this country and destroy it.
That's a really, really corrosive situation.
BALDWIN: Given the corrosiveness and given he sets the tone, whether in office another year or then another four years beyond that, you wrote a piece a couple of months ago about, "Will Trump Ever Really Go Away." Will he?
BRUNI: I don't think he ever will in the real sense. Starters, loses this election, challenge its legitimacy. A way of not going away.
I think he will likely, from the sidelines, unlike any other former president, he will snipe and carp at whoever his successor is and encourage people not to rally around them, but resent, vilify that person because it's the only language Donald Trump knows how to speak.
BALDWIN: As Americans what should we do about it?
BRUNI: Recognize it, realize we can be better and dig deep inside, find something better, all of us would be so much better off. And this country will survive and only in that sense.
BALDWIN: Frank Bruni, thank you very much. Thank you. Learning disturbing news about Vladimir Putin, the role he apparently played with President Trump in involving the conspiracy theory involving Ukraine.
Plus, the Trump campaign takes a congressman's comments out of grossly out of context and claims he called for the president's hanging. The lie is getting thousands of retweets. We're fact-checking what was really said, ahead.
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[14:51:51]
BALDWIN: As impeachment moves to the Senate, President Trump continues to push an unfounded conspiracy theory that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 presidential election, and now we may know why.
A new writeup in the "Washington Post" gives accounts from former White House officials who fear Russian President Vladimir Putin may be the one behind President Trump's disdain for Ukraine.
The "Post" reports President Trump's persistent claims started picking up steam after that private meeting with Putin during the 2017 G-20 summit in Germany.
And Shane Harris is one of the authors who broke this news for the "Post." He's also a CNN national security analyst.
Shane, welcome to you.
Talk to me about your reporting. What did you guys find?
SHANE HARRIS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: We found, of course, we know from many of President Trump's statements more recently during impeachment he has this idea Ukraine somehow interfered in the 2016 election analogous to what the Russians did and we know that's not true. Administration officials said publicly it's not.
We find out, though, the fixation goes back to near the beginning of his presidency, when he believed, as he told one White House official, very senior official, that Putin told him that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election.
The word of this got around to other senior officials, and really became part of the atmosphere in the White House in the first year of the administration. It's believed that President Putin of Russia had steered President Trump onto a false theory.
And it occupied much of the attention of senior staff who tried repeatedly to disabuse him of this idea and to convince him, no, in fact, it was Russia interfered, not Ukraine.
BALDWIN: It bears repeating that we still don't know what was said in so many of those one-on-one meetings between President Trump and President Putin.
HARRIS: Right. And we talked to a number of officials who emphasized this point.
In the recorded calls, monitored conversations the president had with Vladimir Putin -- just like he does with other world leaders, those calls were monitored -- people did not hear President Putin say this to President Trump.
This really led to this suspicion there was conveyed in the private sessions, one at the G-20 summit in Hamburg in June, particularly where President Trump was at a dinner with heads of state. He got up, sat next to Putin with no U.S. officials present.
And also, at that same summit, confiscated - sorry -- tried to cover- up some conversation they had in monitored meetings as well.
So there were moments when these two leaders were outside of view and ear shot literally of the president's aides. And many believe that that may be where President Putin planted this idea in the president's head.
BALDWIN: Wow.
As we talk Russia, Shane, i wanted to get your take on this. The White House is now pushing back on sanctions for Russia. In a letter, the State Department called the bill to deter Russians from interfering in our elections as unnecessary and needing significant changes.
So why take this stand now, especially amid this historic week we've witnessed?
HARRIS: I think what we've seen over the course of the past couple of years while the president, while his administration has done things to hurt Russia important ways, expelling diplomats, issuing sanctions, President Trump himself has never really fully been onboard with this idea and he's had strongly persuaded by many senior aides to do some of these more serious actions.
[14:55:20]
It may be that the president now is trying to get back to where he wanted to be before sanctions. But we've seen it before, the president taking a very different stance publicly than some senior aides.
Many aides who persuaded him to go hard on Russia are no longer in the White House.
BALDWIN: How about that?
Shane Harris, thank you very much.
HARRIS: You bet.
BALDWIN: After this week, during which the president was impeached and 76 percent of Americans think the economy is strong, is the president closer to or farther from being re-elected? We want to talk about that.
Also just in, Speaker Nancy Pelosi sends an invitation to President Trump two days after impeaching him. Hear what she's inviting him to, coming up.
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