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Congress Goes on Holiday Break, At Impasse Over Senate Trial; Democrats and White House Prep for Senate Trial Amid Standoff; Pennsylvania Trump Supporters Say Impeachment Helps Him in 2020; Donald Trump Accepts Nancy Pelosi's Invitation To Deliver State Of Union Speech Days After House Impeached Him; House Speaker Nancy Pelosi: Mitch McConnell Is A Rogue Leader; Congress Goes On Holiday Break, At The Impasse Over Senate Trial. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired December 21, 2019 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST, CNN NEWSROOM: Hello, again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Saturday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. All right, today President Trump is at his Mara-a-Lago Resort in Florida for the holidays. Before departing he signed a $1.4 trillion spending bill preventing a U.S. government shut down with that behind him. He is now preparing for his upcoming impeachment trial in the U.S. Senate.

Just days after his impeachment in the House two days in fact he accepted an invitation by Speaker Nancy Pelosi to give his annual State of the Union address on February 4th a speech which could be overshadowed by his upcoming trial.

The President wants an immediate trial in the Senate, but the timing is now up in the air as Democratic and Republican Leaders clash over the rules some House Democrats are urging Pelosi to indefinitely withhold the articles until Majority Leader Mitch McConnell agrees to hold a fair trial.

CNN's Sarah Westwood is in West Palm Beach near the President's Florida home. So Sarah, you know despite the impeachment the President was able to pass a spending bill, what more can you tell us about it?

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That is right Fred, that spending bill represents a glimmer of bipartisan cooperation amid all of the partisan fighting surrounding impeachment. And Republicans and Democrats in Congress were able to come to an agreement on some top issues, for example funding for construction of the border wall was kept at current levels so the Trump Administration getting a little money for that also the bill saw a pay raise for all military and civilian federal workers, something that is being held as a win for both parties.

But of course that spending bill passed amid the backdrop of ongoing tensions between the White House and lawmakers on Capitol Hill as House Speaker Nancy Pelosi continues to withhold those articles of impeachment so that House Democrats can in their eyes use them as leverage to try to force the Senate to hold what they see as a fair trial.

Now White House officials tell CNN that the President wants that trial to start as soon as possible. And he wants that trial not just to acquit him but to vindicate him. So while he is here in Mara-a-Lago he and aides will be working on crafting the legal defense, the strategy, heading into the Senate trial.

And there are a number of unanswered questions that remain for example who will deliver the opening and closing argument and whether there is space on the President's defense team for people outside of the White House such as some of his fiercest allies in the House. Some conservative members who the White House is thinking of bringing on so there will be a lot of activities surrounding this while the President is here at Mara-a-Lago for the break Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right and let me shift gears a little bit, because there are number of Jewish lawmakers calling on one of the President's top advisors Stephen Miller to be dismissed from his job. Is the President hearing that advice or even responding to it?

WESTWOOD: That advisor Stephen Miller has been the target of criticism from Democrats since the start of the Trump Presidency. But in this case there are 25 House and Senate Jewish Democrats who are calling for the President to relieve Miller of his duties over leaked emails from his time in office of Former Senator Jeff Sessions before the election. Those came from a Breit Bart Editor who says that Miller tried to shape her coverage often sharing content from White Nationalist websites those emails also would suppose his harshly anti- immigration views.

And those lawmakers were also very concerned about the way the White House initially responded to those leaked emails which came out in November, the White House decried criticism of Miller as Anti-Semitism because Stephen Miller is Jewish and those Democratic Jewish Lawmakers accuse the White House a weaponizing Anti-Semitism for their political benefit with that response Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Sarah Westwood, keep us posted there from West Palm Beach. Thank you so much. All right, so negotiations over President Trump's Senate trial remain in a deadlock. So far there are no set rules or impeachment managers and now Speaker Nancy Pelosi is accusing Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell of going rogue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): I admit that I'm not sure of what leverage there is in refraining from sending us something we do not want. We'll see whether House Democrats ever want to work up the courage to actually take their accusation to trial.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Our founders when they wrote the constitution they suspected that there could be a rogue President. I don't think they expected that we could have a rogue President and a rogue Leader in the Senate at the same time. (END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:05:00]

WHITFIELD: All right, joining me right now, CNN Reporter Marshall Cohen. Marshall good to see you again. So we know that Pelosi is holding the articles in the house. You know she is not transmitting them to the Senate, you know where are negotiations about so to speak between McConnell and Schumer in trying to set the parameters of this impending trial?

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Well, they are kind of stuck right now. They had a meeting on Thursday after that historic vote Wednesday night, but there have not been any major developments since those initial conversations and it is kind of stuck. They're at a very big split where Democrats lead by Chuck Schumer is pushing for testimony from witnesses including the Former White House National Security Advisor John Bolton and the Current Chief of Staff to the President Mick Mulvaney.

Democrats also want the White House to finally comply with some of those subpoenas for documents where on the other hand, Mitch McConnell is saying that there doesn't need to be anymore investigation, no more investigation, no more fact finding, they should look at what came over from the House and take a pretty quick vote.

So there is no huge progress on that and also as you mentioned the Senate doesn't even officially have these articles of impeachment on their side because the House has not voted to authorize the House managers and send it over.

WHITFIELD: And of course the House Speaker Pelosi is saying she is not going to name the House Managers until she gets an idea of how the trial would proceed? So does she have the upper hand because Mitch McConnell in that sound we played earlier said you know she should not or doesn't have the leverage?

COHEN: Well, you know, I think everybody here thinks that they're the ones who have the leverage, per se, but she is playing it close right now and wants to let things play out. It is true though that polls do tells us that most Americans agree with the Democrats on the question of whether or not these witnesses should be called to testify.

So Speaker Pelosi might be banking on some of that public views to push the Republicans, but you heard Mitch McConnell, he doesn't even think that the President is guilty. He said the President is innocent of this so if you don't want to send him over for a trial, be my guest that's what he is saying Fred.

WHITFIELD: Okay. Marshall Cohen, thank you so much. We're going to talk further now with Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee. She is a Democratic Representative from Texas and a member of the House Judiciary Committee. Congresswoman, happy holidays, and glad you could be with us.

REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE, (D-TX): Thank you so much, may I wish you and your family and the nation a very precious holiday season.

WHITFIELD: Thank you so much. So how would you describe what is happening right now that the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says she won't assign managers until the U.S. Senate makes clear how the trial will play out? And then you have got the U.S. Senate claiming that House is holding things up after declaring urgency Mitch McConnell even questioning Pelosi's leverage. So make sense of all of this, what is happening? How do you sum it up?

JACKSON LEE: I believe the American people over this period of time that Democrats emphasize that what we were doing was our constitutional duty and it was in adherence to our constitution, has come to understand that the document is a living document. And what the Speaker is doing with great a student is adhering to the constitution.

I read the oath that the Senators must take. It is an oath or affirmation and it says that I pledge or I affirm, or I swear to be an impartial juror according to the constitution. The constitution set up the impeachment process. The President has been impeached. He was impeached when the vote was taken by the U.S. House of Representatives in a bipartisan manner with an independent voting I as well, yes.

WHITFIELD: So you're making it clear that his impeachment is not pending the articles being transmitted?

JACKSON LEE: I believe the vote of impeachment means that the President will always have on his legacy that he was impeached, yes. What we're doing now is following the constitution which is the question of transmitting the articles of impeachment to the U.S. Senate. The Speaker believes that the constitution requires fairness. One of the things that the founders did is they remove the Vice President as presiding Office of the Senate and they put the Chief Justice, why? Because they wanted this alumina and the fairness of this process to be for everyone --

WHITFIELD: And is it clear?

JACKSON LEE: -- whether you are acquitted or not. And McConnell seems --

WHITFIELD: Sorry about that go ahead.

JACKSON LEE: That's all right. McConnell seems to believe that he has all power to not adhere to the constitution and do whatever he desires to do and I don't -- I think Americans understand that.

[12:10:00]

JACKSON LEE: They don't want to go into a courthouse where there are no rules and regulations. We don't want to transmit the articles of impeachment where there is not rules and understanding of how this will proceed?

WHITFIELD: And I guess then my follow to that which I interrupted you on was about fairness, you said you know you want fairness. Mitch McConnell however, is using that same language to say that he wants a fair trial and that doesn't mean including witnesses, but is it the issue of witnesses that the House Speaker, you, other Democrats are waiting to hear some real clarification on before sending over the articles? Or are there other matters that are trying to be worked out when looking at the process of what a Senate trial would be before those articles are transmitted?

JACKSON LEE: I think the question -- I think you asked a very potent and pointed question. Here is the distinction if we want to use the Clinton impeachment which I was a participant in as a member of the Judiciary Committee. There was an independent prosecutor who interviewed every single witness that the prosecutor thought they needed.

At the same time the President's Counsel was made available and participated in the impeachment proceedings. I think what Senator McConnell needs to know, and he was here during that time that all of the witnesses that needed to be heard were heard in the House of Representatives during the Clinton Impeachment proceedings. That is the case now.

We have submitted articles of impeachment and we're very confident that the witnesses regarding a push, those particular articles provided a long with hundreds of pages of testimony and depositions, provided the basis of a securely and legitimately and constitutionally passing out on the articles of impeachment but if you a trial, we're the indicting entity, we're the grand juries.

If you have a trial than witnesses can and should be called that is all that Leader Schumer and Speaker Pelosi are saying. What is the process that you will use? What witnesses will you call? And remember what does the oath of affirmation say? To be an impartial juror.

McConnell is not allowing the Senators to be impartial because what he is saying is that it will be my way or the highway. That is not the constitution and we're not going to yield to his behavior without providing a fair process. The Speaker is right and so is Leader Schumer.

I believe it is going to be worked out. We all know that the constitution precedes and rules and I think Senator McConnell has to know this, too, we believe in the next couple days after the immediate holidays that we'll be back in discussions about this and a fair process should proceed for this impeachment process.

WHITFIELD: Is it your belief that Mitch McConnell can be impartial when he is already revealed his point of view on this process? Perhaps you heard my conversation with Michael Zeldin, Law Expert earlier who said that he could potentially be dismissed because he has revealed that he can't be impartial but that would be left up to the Chief Justice. Do you see a path for that?

JACKSON LEE: Well, you know Fredricka, I think Senator McConnell should be forewarned that we're not in a normal legislative process where the will, or the wily nillyness of the legislative process governs when various procedures of not allowing bills to come to the floor when a Senator can rise to object on the floor, and another Senator probably could not proceed, it happens in the House.

This is a constitutional process. And he will have to take an oath. And that oath says that I am affirming or swearing to be an impartial juror according to the constitution. I do believe that the Chief Justice would have to assess whether or not Leader McConnell's reckless comments that he has made about tying himself to the defense, to the President's strategy, to whatever the President says is a dangerous contravention to the idea of being impartial.

I would be very concerned if I had to take an oath to be an impartial juror and I had made these statements. That's why I believe the Speaker and Leader Schumer standing on solid constitutional grounds. Leader McConnell tell us what you're going to do because you will be leading a group of Senators who have taken oath to be impartial. We can't decide what their final decision will be --

WHITFIELD: And then --

[12:15:00]

JACKSON LEE: -- but we can ask and demand that it be fair and there be a process. If Senator McConnell wants to jump to an acquittal or dismissal, then we have to know what the constitutional grounds for doing that are. What's your basis for doing that? And if it what you intend to do, then I think the House Speaker and the Leader Schumer will have to be fully engaged in the reasoning and probably will not see that as fair procedures going forward.

WHITFIELD: And then quickly Congresswoman, if I get you to respond to there is criticism about, you know, this delay, and that it puts impeachment in jeopardy and this coming from a Noah Feldman he is Law Professor that you Democrats called to talk about the legal merits of impeachment less than two weeks ago.

And he said -- he wrote today in Bloomberg, he said if the House does not communicate it's impeachment to the Senate, it hasn't actually impeached the President. If the articles are not transmitted, Trump could legitimately say that he was not truly impeached at all. I know at the top of the interview you say yes, indeed he was impeached, but could you respond to that and that from a witness that you all called?

JACKSON LEE: Well, certainly we have great respect for the professor Feldman. The weird answer there Fredricka is that this will not be a month long delay. This is an appropriate processing of articles of impeachment and discussion, and dialogue, with the Leader of the House, the Speaker of the House and the Leaders of the Senate.

There is nothing wrong with discussing the next steps going forward. I don't have any doubt that the articles of impeachment will be transmitted timely when there is an understanding, and I have no doubt that there was a vote taken and that the articles of impeachment pass the U.S. House of Representatives in a bipartisan manner with an independent voting as well.

Let me say that we're serious about this. We don't intend to violate the constitution. We will continue the discussions and those articles of impeachment will be effectively transmitted and will be effectively the basis on the actions of the Senate. I do believe that the vote does count. We did our constitutional duty and that is we voted on the articles of impeachment at the gavel.

Those two articles Fredricka passed and the President was impeached. I do think we can have a constitutional discussion, but I do want to say to Professor Feldman, we're going to follow the constitution and transmit an effective and efficient manner in the days and time frame to come.

WHITFIELD: All right, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee. Thank you so much and again happy holidays.

JACKSON LEE: Happy holidays to all of you, God bless.

WHITFIELD: Thank you. All right, still ahead, a new mother found dead inside a Texas home, her baby girl discovered alive and healthy. Now police have a suspect under arrest. Details are coming up and later with the details of the impeachment trial still being hammered out in the Senate, what happens now? How long can the House wait to turn over the articles of impeachment, more on that, straight ahead?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:20:00]

WHITFIELD: All right, a tragic end to a terribly sad story. A missing one-month-old baby girl is found safe and sound, but her mother is found strangled to death in Texas. And now another woman is being bars. CNN's Rosa Flores is here with more on the details of the charges.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we've learned that the suspect is being charged with two counts of kidnapping and one count of tampering with the corpse. But Fred, here is the thing authorities are not identifying the suspect. We know this from a source that is familiar with the case we're saying that this is indeed the woman.

And the name is Megan Fieramusca and according to the source she is the woman that is connected to the disappearance of Heidi Broussard the 33-year-old mother from Austin who went missing more than a week ago so did her infant daughter Margo. Now at that point in time local state and federal agency started investigated, they started interviewing witnesses, family members, friends, they started following tips.

With those tips and evidence lead them to more than 100 miles away to Houston. That's where authorities found the body of a woman in the trunk of a car and pathologist later identified her as Heidi Broussard. Well, on that same property that's where they found an infant, and according to authorities they do believe that this is Margo but they're conducting DNA testing just to make sure. Now here is what police had to say.

(BEGIN VIDO CLIP) CHIEF BRIAN MANLEY, AUSTIN POLICE: I just want to express the heartfelt condolences of everyone you see standing here with me our community our department that we did not have two recues but only one it appears. And our hearts and our minds are with Heidi and her family today as we go forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now it's tough for all of this community, of course Fred. We're getting updates about where Megan Fieramusca is the suspect. She was transported from Harris County to Travis County overnight and she made her first appearance before a judge overnight as well and she is being held on $600,000.

WHITFIELD: Do we know much about the relationship between the women?

FLORES: We're trying to investigate that. We know that there is a lot of information online, but we're trying to confirm that before --

WHIFIELD: Or even if there is a relationship. All right, Rosa Flores, thank you so much. I appreciate it. All right, coming up, the impeachment trial is at a standstill, what happens if the House and Senate can't come to an agreement, more right after this?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:00]

WHITFIELD: All right welcome back. Lawmakers who will decide the political fate of President Trump are back in their home districts for holiday break leaving Washington still at an impasse over how to handle Senate impeachment trial?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PELOSI: Once we see what their process is, we will know who and how many we want to send over not until then.

MCCONNELL: I'll admit I'm not sure what leverage there is in refraining from sending us something we do not want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, so where does the process go from here? Joining me now to discuss CNN Legal Analyst and UNC Law Professor Michael Gearhart Good to see you Professor so do you think this is an impasse between the House and Senate in this impeachment process? Or does it just appear that way because most are away on holiday break some did remain in Washington?

MICHAEL GERHARDT, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think it largely appear that's way. If it's an impasse at all, it's going to fade very quickly. Keep in mind that even if the House of Representatives have voted not only to impeach the President but also to appoint House Managers. We still would be sitting here in a Christmas break.

WHTIFIELD: What do you mean?

GERHARDT: And waiting for --

WHITFIELD: Oh, yeah, in the Christmas break, but then awaiting details of the Senate trial?

GERHARDT: That's right. Yeah, so would have been those two weeks, anyway, and we're in the middle of them, and are at the beginning of them. And so during the two weeks or so between the House's recess and when the Senate comes back out of recess, nothing would have happened anyway.

WHITFIELD: Okay. So House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said this about how and when to move forward with selecting House Managers who would be part of any Senate impeachment trial, listen.

[12:30:03]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PELOSI: -- my Managers until we see what the process is on the Senate side. So far we haven't seen anything that looks fair to us. So hopefully, it will be fair, and when we see that it is, we'll send our managers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, so how are selections of House managers, you know, predicated on details of a Senate hearing? What do they needed now?

MICHAEL GERHARDT, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Typically, House managers are drawn from the people that had very prominent roles in the House proceedings leading to impeachment, so we would expect for example Chairman Schiff to be of them, perhaps Representative Nadler as well. That's the -- typically, the criterion is who had a big role, who will -- who knows the stuff better than anyone, and therefore can prosecute this well in the Senate.

WHITFIELD: And Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is questioning, you know, the House Speaker Pelosi's leverage, but perhaps if he thought he was in the driver's seat, did Pelosi just kind of put the breaks on that?

GERHARDT: I think so. I think she sort of may be called audible so to speak since we're in football season as well. And I think it make have caught the Senate's leader a little bit by surprise. It certainly caught the nation somewhat by surprise.

I also suspect that this might haven't done because she knows it's going to drive the president crazy to have -- to be caught in limbo right now. And she's obviously looking at the situation trying to figure out, OK, what can I do to ensure credibility for the articles but also to ensure that the Senate as she says provides a fair trial than what the majority leader right now is promising. WHITFIELD: And Democrats have said, you know, they see a fair trial as including witnesses and that's one of the issues here, apparently, holding up, you know, the transmitting of these articles. I mean, the House requested four witnesses including former National Security Adviser John Bolton, Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney. So under what circumstances do you see Senator McConnell budging on that? Do you think he ultimately has to welcome witnesses in order to justify a fair U.S. Senate trial?

GERHARDT: He will not budge unless there turn out to be 51 senators who vote the other way. The Senate process is controlled entirely by whatever at least 51 senators agree to. Right now, it sounds as if the majority leader has this coalition in place. I thought it very telling when he said on -- as you just replayed, that we don't want them. He's equating the we, that is his coalition with the entire institution of the Senate.

But we don't know for sure whether 51 senators might form some Republicans and some Democrats to actually call a witness or two. That remains to be seen.

WHITFIELD: Can you have a trial without witnesses? Does a trial without witnesses just look like, you know, reading the transcripts of previous testimonies? I mean, how do you have that trial?

GERHARDT: It would be difficult to say the least. It certainly would be the first time in any presidential impeachment trial we had zero witnesses. In President Johnson's, we had over 40. In President Clinton's, there was at least three people who were interviewed behind closed doors with three senators present for the cross examination and the depositions. And so this would be the first time in history if the Senate didn't call a witness in a presidential impeachment trial, and it would create an awkward situation because if the Senate does nothing, it's still possible there might be revelations later by John Bolton in his book or others in the administration that suggest there was improper conduct here. And therefore, the Senate will look as if it's facilitating a cover up.

WHITFIELD: All right, Michael Gerhardt, thank you so much. Good to see you and happy holidays.

GERHARDT: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: So with the impeachment in limbo, and neither side seemingly willing to budge, will Democrats or Republicans blink first and what do they gain by standing their ground? We'll discuss that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:38:05]

WHITFIELD: All right, the date for President Trump's Senate trial remains TBD. And now Trump is demanding an immediate trial.

Joining me now to discuss, our CNN Political Analyst Michael Shear who is also a White House correspondent for the New York Times, and Karoun Demirjian, congressional reporter for the Washington Post. Good to see both of you. Happy holidays.

MICHAEL SHEAR, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to be here.

KAROUN DEMIRJIAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: To you too.

WHITFIELD: So, Karoun, you first, you know, it seems like neither, you know, Pelosi nor McConnell are willing to budge here. But perhaps you just heard my legal analyst that we had on before the break who said a U.S. Senate trial without a witness would be unprecedented and the Democrats in the House want witnesses. McConnell has said no, it's not going to happen. So, how is this going to end? Is this really about who has, who is wielding the greatest power and leverage?

DEMIRJIAN: Well, you've got a face off between two incredibly powerful congressional leaders who are both very, very good at counting votes. And so Pelosi and McConnell are kind of perfect to play off of each other if it's really going to come to a showdown of who wins out here. It is not clear exactly when this will go forward, although it seems like the House wouldn't have gone through all the trouble of this impeachment process if they do not eventually send this over to the Senate that Pelosi is trying to wield this leverage.

But as much as -- Michael Gerhardt was right that, you know, this would be unprecedented to have a trial without witnesses, there's a lot about this impeachment that's unprecedented. There was no special counsel that conducted the investigation. It came entirely out of the House impeachment inquiry.

WHITFIELD: Like you saw a Ken Starr with Clinton.

DEMIRJIAN: Exactly, there was Ken Starr, there was no Leon Jaworski, that didn't happen. You've got a split Congress. You've got the Democrats running one-half of it, Republicans running the other half of it. That hasn't existed in past impeachments either.

So there's a lot that's unique about this that's kind of testing what the constitutional definitions are of how far each side has to go in terms of upholding their duty.

[12:40:01]

And, you know, both Pelosi and Mitch McConnell are both very strong- willed, they are both comfortable, they've been leading their parties for a long time and believed that they've got a fairly iron grip over where those votes are. And so we'll see in this kind of, you know, tug of war that's going to go on over the holidays who ends up winning out. If there are some cracks in the GOP unity that means Mitch McConnell can't get to 51 because we already know the president wants to see some witnesses.

If there are some people that actually side with him, McConnell could have a problem. Otherwise, it seems like Pelosi is eventually going to have to let those articles of impeachment go to the Senate so this can proceed. KING: And Michael, you're there in West Palm. You know, I definitely want you to describe kind of the demeanor of the president. His daughter says, you know, he is energized, but meantime, you know, this whole impeachment process, it's really not just about, you know, the president, it's also really about the fight over institutions, power from Capitol Hill to the White House. You know, are you kind of keeping score here, you know? About who really is in the lead.

SHEAR: Yes. Look, I mean, I think the president at least outwardly is projecting kind of mood of calm and that he is not worried. He went ahead and signed some spending bills last night. He spoke to some troops briefly. You know, trying to portray an image that whether or not he's been impeached he's very confident in the ultimate outcome.

I think, look, he is the wildcard here. Karoun said it right, there are two powerful politicians on Capitol Hill facing off against each other, but what we don't know is the kind of pressure ultimately that President Trump will put on Senator McConnell. If President Trump relentlessly says and demands that he wants a speedy trial but a really robust trial that includes witnesses, that does put a lot of pressure on McConnell to perhaps relent, and we'll just have to see whether President Trump, whether that's a lot of bluster right now or whether or not there really is the kind of pressure from the president on the Senator McConnell.

WHITFIELD: But, of course, then there's the issue of who gets to, you know, decide what witnesses. OK, yes, McConnell could say witnesses, but only witnesses that are handpicked by, I don't know, say, the president, you know, as opposed to the list coming from Schumer.

SHEAR: Right. And there are certainly reasons why the Republican Party at large, the senators that are there and certainly especially senators that are maybe in states that aren't particularly Trumpian, that are more of a swing state, they wouldn't necessarily want the kind of circus that the kind of witnesses that President Trump might demand would engender. So Hunter Biden and some of these other witnesses that might talk about conspiracy theories that a lot of the senators even Republican senators are pretty uncomfortable with it.

WHITFIELD: And so Karoun, look at recent polling. I mean, before, you know, there seemed to be support, greater support for the president's impeachment and removal from office, and now those numbers have changed a bit. You know, with the noes out winning the yeses there by just two percentage points. So what happened? Did it have something to do with the way in which, you know, the hearings took place in the House or is there some other dynamic here in which to measure?

DEMIRJIAN: Well, I mean, it's difficult to pinpoint exactly what it is. You saw that the numbers or pro-impeachment numbers tick up, you know, up to the -- that was the past 50 percent but just barely right around the time that the Ukraine allegations came out. And now, you've got the situation where those are dropping slightly. Again, we're not talking about massive, massive shift here but it seems that there certainly was a ceiling and now that the public sentiment towards supporting impeachment and Trump's removal is falling far short of that.

So, look, the GOP took a while to craft its counter argument. They were kind of in a little bit of a panic mode when this all started and the lineup of various State Department and NSC officials coming forward with evidence had seemed to create this case that was moving closer and closer to the president having done something fishy regarding Ukraine. But then the GOP fairly ably towards the end of the public hearings rallied around this argument that this is all hearsay, that you can't actually tie it to the president, that you haven't brought the goods of the witnesses.

Now, the Democrats are making the counter argument that the reason that maybe we haven't brought all of the goods is that we have been blocked by the White House and now our fear in being blocked by the Senate from bringing the witnesses that are in the president's inner circle who could close this gap, who could tie all of the Ukraine allegations directly to President Trump, but this is why we got a stand-off right now over witnesses.

And I think that in a way the numbers you see falling are an indication of how the GOP kind of argument may be sticking, and also just an indication of the fact that we've been talking about this now for about four months and public opinion tends to shiver and shake a little bit when we get stuck on one issue like that. And that's why Democrats never thought that this was going to be a winning issue that they could campaign on in 2020.

WHITFIELD: All right, we'll leave it there for now. Happy holidays to you both, Karoun Demirjian, Michael Shear.

DEMIRJIAN: To you too. Thank you.

SHEAR: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:48:57]

WHITFIELD: All right, despite this week's impeachment vote, some Trump supporters believed all of the impeachment controversy will simply guarantee his 2020 re-election bid.

Here now is CNN's Martin Savidge.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Blair County, Pennsylvania, the impeachment of Donald Trump isn't hurting the president.

BONNIE PFEFFER, TRUMP SUPPORTER: No, I loved him.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Supporters say it's helping him.

PFEFFER: I think what they're doing is completely wrong. And I will vote for him in the coming election.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would help him get re-elected actually.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Voters here, predominantly white, working class, strong in their conservative beliefs.

What do you think this will do for Democrats?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think they just put a nail on their coffin.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Trump won more than 78 percent of the vote in this blue collar county about two hours east of Pittsburg. Significantly outperforming Mitt Romney in 2012.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To make America great again.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): But the Republican county chair says had I asked him a year ago if Trump could repeat his success in 2020 he would have said unlikely. Now.

JIM FOREMAN, CHAIRMAN, BLAIR COUNTY REPUBLICAN PARTY: I think we'll turn out that percent or more.

SAVIDGE (on camera): He'll do as good as that and maybe better?

FOREMAN: Maybe even better.

[12:50:01]

SAVIDGE (voice-over): How is that possible? Two reasons. Trump voters we talked to here like the economy and loathe impeachment. They credit Trump with the former and blame Democrats for the later.

(on camera) And how would you say the economy here is Altoona?

PHILIP DEVORRIS, PRESIDENT AND CEO, BLAIR COMPANIES: It's good. You know, it's not people celebrating boom days. But it feels like the kind of long-term steady growth.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): At Blair Image Elements, they make signs all of us see. But what critics see is clear evidence of presidential abuse of power, CEO Philip Devorris sees as just the same old polarized Washington politics that moved him to vote for Trump in the first place.

DEVORRIS: If it did anything it would make me want to support him more.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): It's pretty much the same story down in the farms.

PHIL KULP, KULP FAMILY DAIRY: This location, there is about 1,500 cows being milked.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Milk for the Kulp Family Dairy goes into Hershey chocolate and Land O'Lakes butter. Kulp's business is improving but his attitude toward impeachment is not. He doesn't follow it much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now I work too many hours to pay close attention.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): The way Kulp sees it, voters should more elect more like Trump to Congress.

(on camera) The impeachment process in anyway going to change your outlook or support of this president in 2020?

KULP: No. You know, it's just makes me I guess more convinced that we need more outsiders in Washington.

SAVIDGE (on camera): Not all the Republicans I spoke to here say they support the president. Some object him they say because of his personal faults. And that they'll likely do in 2020 what they did in 2016 which is simply not vote. Because unlike other Trump strongholds where I've asked if there are any Democrats they might consider, everyone here was unanimous, no.

Martin Savidge, CNN, Altoona, Pennsylvania.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, still to come, two cruise ships collide in Mexico. Several people injured. What the captain now says caused that crash coming up.

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[12:55:43]

WHITFIELD: All right, checking our top stories. Terrifying moments when two carnival cruise ships collide while at port in Cozumel, Mexico.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is going to hit us next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: The carnival ship Glory was pulling into port when it hit carnival ship Legend which was already docked. Six passengers -- six guests I should say were injured and a formal investigation is under way. According to carnival officials, sudden high wind gusts and strong currents may have played a role. Right now, the ship is on its way back to its home port in New Orleans. And according to a letter from the captain, passengers were credited $100 per room.

In Minnesota, police were looking for suspects who robbed a woman and then dragged her with their stolen car. This happened in Saint Paul. And the video is very tough to watch. And you see the woman struggles with the robber, he grabs her purse, and she is thrown against the car but the purse's strap is still wrapped around her arm and she is holding on. She was dragged about 75 yards. Those were the images one more time. Amazingly, she was not seriously hurt.

Still ahead, a CNN exclusive, a whistleblower comes forward detailing major shortcomings in the TSA, why it's now being said those lapses are putting all airline passengers at risk. That's next.

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