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Evangelical Magazine Says "Immoral" Trump Should Be Removed; NYT: Trump Has Habit of Quoting Allies Saying Things They Didn't Say; Harvard Report: U.S. Squandered Economic Recovery; Former Governor Defends Controversial Pardons; PolitiFact's Lie of the Year Winner; Pelosi, McConnell in Fight of Their Political Lives; Whistleblower: TSA Putting Air Travelers At Risk; Evangelical Magazine Says "Immoral" Trump Should Be Removed. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired December 21, 2019 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:08]
ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: We're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. Great to have you with us. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.
The history-making impeachment of President Trump not expected to move forward in the coming days, at least not in any way that we will be able to see. Members of Congress are on recess, the president is out of town, but the lights are on in Washington this weekend. Sources on Capitol Hill telling CNN that House committee staffers are at work, and the White House counsel's office is a busy place this weekend, everyone preparing for the next step in the impeachment process, which is a trial in the Senate that could begin just days into the New Year.
The reason, though, for the uncertain time line, one person, speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi. After Wednesday's House impeachment vote, her next duty was to hand over the case to the Senate. She's choosing not to do that just yet.
The first family spending this weekend to the holidays in Florida. President Trump has expressed his desire to have an extended Senate trial with witnesses. That's reportedly not the vision of the top Senate Republican, Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, but the president said this week he'd go along with whatever Senator McConnell decides.
So the status of this extraordinary moment in American history is definitely in limbo and likely to stay that way until everyone comes to work in January. Until then, two main impeachment players are squaring off at the top of this historic fight.
And as Tom Foreman reports, neither of them is the president.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Frankly, I don't care what the Republicans say.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She is the master of the House. He is ruler of the Senate.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): The speaker of the House continues to hem and haw.
FOREMAN: And together, Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell are in the heavyweight political fight of their lives with Donald Trump's raging fate at stake.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Americans will show up by the tens of millions next year to vote Pelosi the hell out of office.
FOREMAN: For months, Pelosi has been whipping her Democrats into shape for impeachment, at times, urging caution, at times, confronting Trump herself.
PELOSI: All roads lead to Putin.
FOREMAN: No one gets under his skin more, even when she commented --
PELOSI: And I still pray for the president.
FOREMAN: Trump hit back fast. You know this statement is not true unless it is meant in a negative sense.
MCCONNELL: The Senate must put this right.
FOREMAN: And McConnell is the perfect counterpuncher, a dauntless Trump defender dismissing all accusations, all evidence of wrongdoing and in a body blow aimed at the Democrats promising more of the same when the Senate trial begins.
MCCONNELL: I'm not an impartial juror. This is a political process.
FOREMAN: Their back-and-forth has been jaw dropping. Pelosi holding up the articles of impeachment, insisting McConnell outline rules for the trial that the framers of the Constitution would approve.
PELOSI: They suspected that there could be a rogue president. I don't think they suspected that we'd have a rogue president and a rouge leader in the Senate at the same time.
FOREMAN: McConnell, even with the president demanding quick action, insisting her tactics don't bother him.
MCCONNELL: I'm not sure what leverage there is in refraining from sending us something we do not want.
FOREMAN: All the faints and dodging make it unclear which of them is winning.
Almost certainly, Trump will be acquitted when and if the fight officially moves to McConnell's Republican-controlled Senate.
MCCONNELL: We remain at an impasse.
FOREMAN: But for now, McConnell and Pelosi are each largely keeping their parties in line, landing big punches and the championship rounds are still ahead. PELOSI: We'll see what they have and be ready for whatever it is.
FOREMAN (on camera): To be sure, both could come out winners. "The Wall Street Journal" says earlier this week, Pelosi was given a standing ovation by her fellow Democrats for the way she has handled the impeachment process. And Mitch McConnell could get something he wants too before it's all over, a pat on the back by Donald Trump.
Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CABRERA: Let's discuss the impending impeachment battle. Matt Lewis, a CNN political commentator and senior columnist for "The Daily Beast" is with us. As well as Pete Dominick, political talk show host and comedian on Sirius XM.
I'll start with you, Pete. Pelosi and McConnell, they are two Washington titans. But this isn't going to be some sweaty steel cage death match. We're talking more like three-dimensional chess on an iceberg.
Who do you see come out on top?
PETE DOMINICK, SIRIUSXM POLITICAL TALK SHOW HOST & COMEDIAN: That's a great question, who's going to come out on top? We're going to find out. We're going to spend the next couple of weeks in limbo over the holidays and new years. The question is, does this hurt Democrats for the reelection campaign? It doesn't seem like anything is hurting Mitch McConnell in the United States Senate.
And there's a lot that remains to be seen. And one question might be, Ana, what might come out in terms of Trump and Ukraine between now and the first? That's what people are whispering in national security circles. Maybe if something more comes out.
Also, what's going to happen if maybe somebody finds a backbone?
[16:05:02]
And nobody -- we're not going to find our breath over it, but in the United States Senate, maybe a few Republicans are actually going to find their conscience? Highly doubtful, but there's a lot that remains to be seen.
CABRERA: Matt, the question, Nancy Pelosi versus Mitch McConnell, who wins?
MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right.
CABRERA: Do you agree with what we just heard from Pete?
LEWIS: Yes, it's hard to say. I think both of these are great political operators. Put aside who's right, who's wrong, put aside ideology, they are really good at what they do. Nancy Pelosi is very sharp, very smart, very strategic, so is Mitch McConnell. I think there was an argument for Nancy Pelosi to hold -- to slow down
impeachment in the House. You know, you could have potentially tried to compel other witnesses, Bolton, Mulvaney to testify. Now, Pelosi is hoping to have that happen in the Senate but she has no leverage in the Senate, that's Mitch McConnell's domain. And I don't think she's going to have the leverage to make that happen.
So I think advantage, Mitch McConnell, at least for now.
CABRERA: I do wonder, though, if Nancy Pelosi's leverage could be knowing the president wants vindication, he wants to be acquitted, he wants to be able to say I was exonerated, you know, after impeachment. And if holding the articles she's betting on the president implying and creating pressure on Mitch McConnell to make some kind of deal so they can get on with it, so he can be acquitted, what do you think?
LEWIS: I think there is truth to that. You know, Mitch McConnell had that line, that very McConnell-esque line, I don't know how much leverage there is sending us something we don't want in the first place.
But Donald Trump wants it. Donald Trump is the leverage. That is maybe the one thing.
I will say this, if Republicans, if John McCain were still alive, if Jeff Flake hadn't left, if there were enough Republicans still in the Senate like Mitt Romney that she could try to cut a deal with, that would be the other option, I just don't think that exists anymore either.
CABRERA: Hmm. Speaking of former Senator Jeff Flake, he is urging his former GOP colleagues to stake a stand. He wrote this in "The Washington Post", I'm just going to quote a part of it.
It might not be fair but none of the successes, achievements and triumphs you had in the public office, and he's talking to his former colleagues, that Republicans in the Senate, whatever bills you've passed, hearings you've chaired, constituents you have had the privilege of helping, will matter more than your actions in the coming months. President Trump is on trial. But in a very real sense, so are you. And so is the political party to which we belong.
Pete, first, your take on Flake.
DOMINICK: I'm so unbelievably unimpressed with Jeff Flake's lack of courage. He's no longer --
CABRERA: His lack of courage though? I mean, he spoke out in the Senate.
DOMINICK: He spoke out and he voted for every policy, the racist policies of this president. He also voted for Brett Kavanaugh. It's one thing to speak out. He knew that he wasn't going to be able to win his primary, and so, he didn't run for re-election. It's one thing to say something. Anybody, I could come on TV, on your show, and say something, there's
not going to be necessarily any consequences at all. I supposed there could be.
But he can say something, but he voted for all those policies. He voted for Brett Kavanaugh. I mean, Twitter is having a field day with this Jeff Flake op-ed. And I just -- I can't give him any credit.
And I just don't see any current Republican senator feeling any pressure from someone who's no longer in the Senate and from someone when he had the opportunity voted for all of Trump's policies.
CABRERA: You don't think this is going to connect with senators and Republicans in the Senate, Matt?
LEWIS: No, I tend to agree even though I like the conservative policies, but I tend to agree. Look, I mean, Justin Amash is the hero here. He's somebody who sort of left the party but he's going down fighting. He didn't walk away because he was afraid he couldn't get reelected.
Look, I can write an op-ed. Bill Kristol can write. There's opinion leaders and other conservatives who can opine and urge Republicans to do the right thing, as hopeless as that may be.
If Jeff Flake could say, I was just saying earlier, but if Jeff Flake were still in the Senate, if he had fought to keep that seat, then maybe you could have enough -- you could have a coalition of Republicans, maybe a Mitch McConnell, maybe Murkowski, maybe Jeff Flake, you could get three or four of them together, you could team up with some moderate, centrist Democrats and they could demand that the Senate hear witnesses. They can go to Mitch McConnell and say you have to do this or you don't have 51 votes.
Jeff Flake can write all the op-eds he wants. He would have been much more valuable to Reagan conservatives and to Nancy Pelosi, by the way, if he fought to keep the seat.
CABRERA: You know, obviously, public opinion also matters here, in terms of applying pressure and a lot of people are waiting to see if their constituents support impeachment. Polling shows impeachment hasn't turned battleground voters in particular against President Trump.
[16:10:04]
In head to heads, with all the candidates, from the 15 states decided by eight points or less in 2016, all these four -- the top Democrats right now are running within margin of error with Trump, does that surprise you, Pete?
DOMINICK: I mean, does anything surprise me anymore. I mean, really, no. I mean, I'm disappointed by it for sure. It's flabbergasting to understand how we live in these different realities in our country, these different truths and what people -- some people are seeing one thing and some people are getting a completely different picture. I try to talk to Trump supporters all the time on my podcast, reach
out to them and understand where they're coming from. And it's really, really hard, and it's really hard to understand where they're coming from because they have a whole set -- different set of information. I do think one piece of information --
CABRERA: Maybe that's why, because they aren't getting all the same information --
DOMINICK: Absolutely.
CABRERA: The facts aren't breaking through.
DOMINICK: Different realities, absolutely. There's so much belief in conspiracy, that the moon is made of cheese and that's frightening. It is interesting to see in one poll on impeachment, that 45 percent of Republicans actually said they believe, while the president shouldn't be impeached, he did do something wrong. Of course, the president thinks he is literally perfect.
CABRERA: Well, Republicans in the House, and we heard their speeches this week. None of them were complaining about what the president did. Let me ask you, Matt, real quick because I have a little bit of time. You called your former party the Republicans evil, and summed it up by observing, the good news is that this has created an opening for the Democratic Party to seize the moral high ground.
Do any of the current 2020 candidates have your support?
LEWIS: No, I probably won't vote. But look, this goes back to an old -- you know, as an opinion journalist you can argue it's better for me not to vote anyway. I have problems with Democrats. I'm pro-life, for example, it's a big issue to me. But I have problems I can't see myself voting for Donald Trump for a billion reasons.
But this goes back to the old line, sort of the joke that said that Republicans were the stupid party and Democrats were the evil party. I now think that Republicans are the evil party.
And I do think that Democrats -- I mean, who used to be the party that was tough on Russia? It used to be the Republicans. Who used to be the party that liked protectionist trade policies? It used to be the Democrats.
In many ways, they've switched and I think interestingly, it's happened on morals and values, too. Nancy Pelosi is the one who's talking about decency. Nancy Pelosi is the one talking about the Founding Fathers. Republicans are talking down those things. Republicans are talking down our presidents, talking down values.
It's -- the world is turned upside down.
CABRERA: Very quickly, Pete.
DOMINICK: I just think it's real -- it's a lot easier than Republicans and Democrats or liberals versus conservatives. And I think that it's -- the bottom line is, do you agree with cheating to win? Will you do whatever it takes to suppress the vote? Will you do whatever it takes to win regardless of the rules, regardless of the Constitution?
A certain percentage, a frighteningly high percentage of Americans will do whatever it takes to win, they could care less about democracy. They just want to win no matter the cost. And there's the rest of us who actually care about democracy, who care about rules and don't believe in cheating.
CABRERA: I hope you're wrong. We'll see when the vote happens.
Thank you very much, Pete Dominick and Matt Lewis. Good to see both of you. Happy holidays. Happy New Year, if I don't see until then.
DOMINICK: Thanks, Ana.
CABRERA: Appreciate you being here.
A lot of you may be gearing up for travel for the holidays. You want to listen to our exclusive report. A whistle-blower tells CNN that changes to TSA screening could be putting your safety at risk.
You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:17:14]
CABRERA: Christmas is just days away. Hanukkah starts tomorrow, and millions of Americans will be traveling for the holidays. But an exclusive report may have you thinking hard about your safety or your loved one's safety as you head to the airport.
A whistle-blower tells CNN, in an effort to keep things moving in the security lines, the agency is putting passengers in danger.
CNN's Rene Marsh.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, this TSA whistle-blower is coming forward because he says the concerns he raised over the last couple years have not been addressed.
To put it simply, he says the agency is putting speed over security. He says the TSA officers on the front lines are not to blame. These screening changes, he says, have come from TSA leadership.
(voice-over): More than 40 million U.S. airline passengers are expected to go through airport security checkpoints this holiday.
But this TSA security director says you may not be as safe as you think.
JAY BRAINARD, TSA WHISTLEBLOWER: What they're doing is injecting danger into the system.
MARSH: Jay Brainard is the top TSA official in his state, and has been with the agency for 17 years.
He says TSA is cutting corners on the screening process to shorten wait times. One example, TSA reduced the sensitivity on all walk- through metal detectors at airports across America.
BRAINARD: They're reducing the concentration of metal that it would take to set off that alarm, so that you could speed up lines and have fewer pat downs.
MARSH (on camera): How do you know that's why they did it?
BRAINARD: Because there's a memo out that supports it.
MARSH (voice-over): This TSA memo shows the order came in 2013, quote, changing all walkthrough metal detectors setting in all lanes to the TSA pre-check setting, to normalize the passenger experience. Brainard says the practice continues today and he worried bombmaking components could go undetected.
BRAINARD: You could have a 30-minute wait time and they treat it like it's a national emergency. It is such an unhealthy obsession of placing speed over security.
MARSH: Brainard says that obsession also led the TSA to disable technology on X-ray machines that screen carry on bags in pre-check lanes. This internal memo states as of last month, those X-ray machines should be operated without the auto detection algorithm enabled.
BRAINARD: Put simply, when the item comes through, a box will come around and surround the item that says, hey, stop and take a look at this, that box is no longer on the screen. TSA has made changes to the settings which really hamper the ability of the X-ray operator to detect explosives in carry-one baggage.
MARSH (on camera): But TSA will say this is pre-check.
BRAINARD: They have been putting millions of passengers into TSA pre- check who aren't pre-checked. So, you do not have an entire population in pre-check that are vetted.
MARSH (voice-over): CNN put this to TSA Administrator David Pekoske. He said the agency is not prioritizing wait times over security.
[16:20:04]
DAVID PEKOSKE, TSA ADMINISTRATOR: No, I won't discuss any of our particular security procedures, because that's not really appropriate for me to do. But rest assured that we do provide the level of security that we think is appropriate based on the risk of the passenger.
MARSH: Brainard says the issues he's raised are especially problematic for an agency with 95 percent failure rate in detecting dangerous items at the check point. That's according to a government audit in 2015. Another audit two years later found there were still vulnerabilities.
BRAINARD: When you sit back and watch these things happen, it's the most frustrating thing you could imagine.
MARSH: Going public is his last resort. He filed an official whistle-blower complaint with the Office of Special Counsel. He sent complaints to DHS, TSA and sent letters to Congress. Not just about the metal detectors but also the X-ray machines, a policy change allowing some passengers with medical devices to do a self-pat down and a new policy called blended lanes, where pre-check and standard passengers are mixed in one line -- something that could confuse screeners.
BRAINARD: They now have to mentally switch themselves on and off about what's permitted, what's not permitted with every other passenger. You know, the last time I check, our detection rates were not stellar. And it doesn't make any sense to introduce this kind of variable.
MARSH: Last year, the special counsel ordered DHS to investigate Brainard's complaints, writing, there is a substantial likelihood that the information provided to OSC discloses gross mismanagement and specific danger to public safety.
BRAINARD: My biggest fear is having something happen that costs that American lives and I didn't step up and put a stop to it, or at least try, because it's going to happen. It's not a question of if. It's a question of when. We are long over due for another attack.
MARSH: The TSA did take action on one of Brainard's complaints. He says they continued to use an ineffective test to determine if new hires were color-blind, a disqualifying medical condition even after concerns about the test's effectiveness were raised.
BRAINARD: If you had something in a bag and somebody were color- blind, they wouldn't see the bomb if it were the only thing in the bag.
MARSH: TSA is using a new test for new hires, but according to this TSA memo, the agency will not finish retesting the existing workforce until the end of next year. Brainard knows, despite whistle-blower protections and consistent top ratings on his TSA performance evaluations, speaking out could cost him his job.
BRAINARD: And I fully expect the first discussion that they're going to have is how they can fire me.
MARSH: But he believes that these issues are too urgent to keep quiet.
(on camera): To be clear, no changes have been made to the body scanners that travelers go through. Now, CNN reached out to both agencies investigating Brainard's complaints but no comments from either. Brainard has secured a whistle-blower attorney. In response to the claims raised in our story, the head of TSA told me that whistleblowers, and I'm quoting, provide a valuable service and it's our responsibility to fully investigate those concerns to see if they represent a valid security risk or not. But the TSA says they have not completed their assessment.
Rene Marsh, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CABRERA: Ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM, an evangelical magazine calls for President Trump to be removed from the Oval Office. Hear why and if this impacts the president's religious base.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:27:28]
CABRERA: In a stunning rebuke, the leading Christian publication, "Christianity Today", is calling for President Trump to be removed from office.
The editor-in-chief of the magazine which was founded by the late evangelist Billy Graham penned an op-ed arguing in part: This president has dumbed down the idea of morality in his administration. He has hired and fired a number of people who are now convicted criminals. He himself has admitted to immoral actions in business and his relationships with women, about which he remains proud. His Twitter feed alone is a near perfect example of a human being who is morally lost and confused.
"Christian Today's" editor-in-chief defended that editorial on CNN and responded to the president's criticism of the magazine as far left.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK GALLI, EDITOR IN CHIEF, CHRISTIANITY TODAY: It's factually inaccurate that we're far left. We're pretty centrist. We rarely comment on politics, unless we feel it rises to the level of some national or concern that is really important, that this would be a case. We wrote editorials about Clinton during his impeachment process, we wrote editorials about Nixon during his. This struck me as rising to that level and need to comment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: CNN chief media correspondent and anchor of "RELIABLE SOURCES", Brian Stelter joins us.
Brian, how rare is an op-ed like this in a publication like "Christianity Today"?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Incredibly rare. And that's why the servers for the "Christianity Today" website crashed when this was published. That's how much of a surprise it was, that's how much attention it was getting. This is a relatively small magazine, circulation of about 90,000
copies in print. But in part because the president was so angry about it, this ended up being a multi-day story. I would argue the president made it a bigger story by lashing out, lying about the magazine calling it far left. He made this a bigger story as a result.
CABRERA: Let me read you another portion. We believe the impeachment hearings have made it absolutely clear in a way the Mueller investigation did not, that President Trump has abused his authority for personal gain and betrayed his constitutional oath. The impeachment hearings have illuminated the president's moral deficiencies for all to see.
You and I talked about whether the hearings were breaking through. Whether the facts were getting out?
STELTER: Yes.
CABRERA: Is this a sign that in fact it did break through?
STELTER: I think it is an important way to view this. In polling actually, most Republicans say that at least it paid somewhat close attention to the impeachments. And in response to the hearings, Trump supporters have come up with excuses, like saying the Democrats are worse or the media hates Trump. But those are mostly deflections and grievances.
[16:30:00]
What I appreciate about the editorial, it's trying to talk about morality and ethics and be consistent, saying we judged Bill Clinton 20 years ago, we must judge President Trump similarly.
That desire or consistency, that rejection of hypocrisy is something I respect.
ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: The "New York Times" has a piece talking about how the president so often misquotes his allies on Twitter --
(CROSSTALK)
CABRERA: -- and gets no repercussions.
Let me read this. "Mr. Trump has made a habit of injecting his own words into the comments of people he sees on television and then publishing them as direct quotes on Twitter where he has 67 million followers. In some instances, he simply omits parts of the quote he doesn't like."
"More often than not, the allies who Mr. Trump misquotes do little to publicly contradict him. Sometimes a lawmaker's office will simply point reporters to the transcription when asked about the disconnect. They rarely call out Mr. Trump for spreading falsehoods or altering the meanings of their words"
You're take? What's the impact here?
STELTER: Back to the "H" word, hypocrisy. The president accuses the press of making up quotes. He accuses Adam Schiff and other Democrats of making things up. He's the one that changes the quotes in a way to make him look better. We've gotten used to his Twitter stream and how voluminous it is.
I'm glad for this reminder of how he's just inserting words, changing the meaning of words on his Twitter feed.
CABRERA: And wanting everyone to believe him, not the facts themselves. And it --
STELTER: That's what it comes back to it.
CABRERA: And it comes back to what he hears on FOX News.
STELTER: That's where he gets it.
CABRERA: He's often tweeting things out from the channel, including what we saw during and after the impeachment vote, what was on the air.
This is what he and others were hearing. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FOX HOST: Will this lead to the president being re- elected? I'm sure the president would say so.
UNIDENTIFIED FOX HOST: Permanent mark in the history books. Wait until he's the first president impeached by House Democrats, important distinction, to then be re-elected by the people at the ballot box.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: The president had to like what he was hearing.
STELTER: This is effective but not 100 percent. It's 40 percent effective. It's effective with his base.
Before the hearings, we wondered would his FOX firewall hold. The answer is yes. It's held extremely well.
But Trump is not gaining supporters. He's holding them. That's thanks to not just FOX but right-wing media. That's why it's important to hear what these guys are saying on air. They are giving the president daily affirmation when he's not getting it elsewhere.
CABRERA: All right, Brian Stelter, always good to have you here.
STELTER: Nice to see you.
CABRERA: Please tune in to Brian's show tomorrow morning on CNN at 11:00 a.m., "RELIABLE SOURCES." It's been more than a decade since the Great Recession. You may think
the recovery has been strong but hear why a new report says the U.S. squandered major economic opportunities.
You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:36:55]
CABRERA: In just 10 days, we will close out the decade, the first since the Great Recession. And according to a brand-new poll, Americans are feeling good about where we are at. And 76 percent say they see the economy as good. That's the highest ranking in nearly 20 years. On Friday, stocks hit a record high.
Why does a new report from Harvard say we have squandered a decade of unprecedented economic recovery?
Part of the report reads, quote, "Past generations of American leaders have used periods of strong economic growth in at least three ways: to upgrade the nation's business environment, to make America more equitable and humane, and to build fiscal strength to buffer future recessions. Our current leaders have accomplished none of these during the past decade's expansion."
One of the co-authors of the report joins us now. Katherine Gehl is an American business leader. She served on the board of directors of the Overseas Private Investment Corporation under President Obama.
Katherine, great to have you with us.
Let's start with what happened or what didn't happen, first. What should the U.S. have been able to accomplish in the last 10 years?
KATHERINE GEHL, ENTREPRENEUR & FORMER BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEMBER, OVERSEAS PRIVATE INVESTMENT CORPORATION: It's great to be here. Thank you.
I would go with what you talked about in the introduction, which is to say there's almost a best practice for leadership in Washington D.C., and how they should use periods of economic expansion, which is to set us up for the future. And as you noted, we haven't done that in this past decade.
What we look at in our report is not specifically how is the economy feeling today, but rather, how well positioned are we to be a competitive location going forward.
And for us, that means two things. First, businesses have to be able to compete well globally. And also at the same time our businesses have to support jobs that provide a high and rising standard of living to citizens.
And what our work shows is that we have not positioned the American economy well to be able to do those two things in the future. CABRERA: That's a scary thought.
GEHL: That's really the opportunity that we've squandered.
CABRERA: Amid this unprecedented economic recovery, Republicans did pass a series of historic tax cuts. Was that the right call?
GEHL: There are things that are absolutely right about the tax cut. But it's also emblematic of how we, quote/unquote, "solve problems" today in Washington D.C. That's to say the good thing was we needed to move to territorial tax system. We needed to lower the statutory rate for the corporate tax system.
But we also needed to accomplish those while not adding dramatically to our national deficit and then debt. We needed to close loopholes. We needed to not have such a regressive system.
What our political system is pretty good at today is solving things by not paying for them, by passing the bill to future generations. We had good policy here but we didn't pay for it.
[16:40:14]
And that amounts to sort of success in today's system. Which is what we really see as a core problem in positioning ourselves for the future that our political system doesn't do that well.
So we're glad, certainly, that people feel this sense of optimism, according to your CNN poll. And yet, when we survey our alumni and they look forward, they show concerns about our ability to continue delivering good results for people, given that there will, at some point, be another recession.
We haven't used this time to our optimal benefit.
CABRERA: You also write about the importance of shared prosperity and that being the foundation of a healthy economy.
I want you to listen to Senator Bernie Sanders, who speaks about that largely, and this was just at a debate a couple of nights ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): We are living in a nation increasingly becoming an oligarchy. We have a handful of billionaires who spend hundreds of millions of dollars buying elections and politicians. You have more income and wealth inequality today than any time since the 1920s.
We are the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care for all people, which is why we need Medicare for All. We are facing an existential crisis of climate change.
The issue is not old or young, male or female. The issue is working people standing up, taking on the billionaire class, and creating a government and economy that works for all, not just the 1 percent. (END VIDEOTAPE)
CABRERA: Katherine, Senator Sanders describes himself as a Democratic Socialist. Your report hits both parties for the influences of lobbying. What part of what Bernie Sanders is laying out would differ from what your study is saying?
GEHL: What we find and where we agree with Bernie Sanders is that the fruits of this recovery have not been evenly distributed. They have gone disproportionately to the upper percentages of the wage earners in this country.
And that is a weakness of the recovery and how we've used it. And it's a weakness that's likely to extend into our future.
Because we haven't, as a country, in Washington, D.C., actually invested in what it's going to take to continue to compete successfully. We haven't invested in creating the kind of business environment that will actually address these uneven benefits of the recovery.
We often talk about how our work shows that this ability to deliver what we talk about is the American dream remains still weaker than it's been in generations.
CABRERA: Katherine Gehl, thank you.
GEHL: So we need to be making, you know, investments in our infrastructure and K-12 education, in health care. And that isn't what we're good at in Washington D.C. We're good at gridlock and at passing the bill.
CABRERA: Katherine Gehl, great to have your expertise. Thank you for sharing with us.
GEHL: Thank you.
CABRERA: It'll be here before you know it. Two best friends, one epic night. Ring in the new year with Andy Cohen and Anderson Cooper. "NEW YEARS EVE LIVE" begins at 8:00 Eastern on New Years Eve here on CNN.
Controversy in Kentucky. The former governor, Matt Bevin, is defending his decision to pardon a convicted child rapist.
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You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
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CABRERA: In his final days in office, former Kentucky governor, Matt Bevin issued hundreds of pardons, including to a child rapist and convicted murderers. We're learning more details about Bevin's reasoning tonight.
And I have to warn you, some of it is graphic and disturbing.
Here's CNN's Polo Sandoval.
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POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His single term as governor may be over but Matt Bevin keeps drawing criticism about hundreds of pardons he issued just before leaving office last week.
On Thursday, Bevin took to the air waves, defending his decision to pardon convicted child rapist, Micah Schoettle.
His reason? His 9-year-old victim's hymen was, quote, "intact."
MATT BEVIN, FORMER KENTUCKY GOVERNOR (voice-over): This is perhaps more specific than people would want but, trust me, if you have been repeatedly sexually violated as a small child by an adult, there are going to be repercussions of that physically and medically. There was zero evidence of that.
SANDOVAL: In more of the ex-governor's interview with radio station WHAS, Bevin claimed an examination of the child yielded little physical evidence of rape.
BEVIN (voice-over): This man was convicted purely on something that there's no corroboration for. And there is a system that should have caught this long before that. You should not be sent to jail based simply on the word, an uncorroborated word, of a single individual, especially when it is possible to verify that medically and physically and there were no ability to do so.
SANDOVAL: But that shouldn't be the only factor, according to medical researchers. A 2012 study in "Forensic Science International" revealed physical signs of sex abuse should not be the only indication of an assault on a child.
The survey found approximately 90 percent of child victims of abuse do not show evidence of physical damage.
Prosecutors are also questioning the pardoning, including Kenton County Commonwealth attorney, Rob Sanders, who originally pursued the case.
In a statement, Sanders calls for a review of the former governor's actions: "I would prefer a statewide investigation led by either federal law enforcement or a special prosecutor appointed by the Kentucky attorney general. However, to my knowledge, that hasn't happened. Until then, I will be conducting my own investigation into the Schoettle pardon."
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CNN reached out to Bevin and Schoettle's attorney for comment.
Before this week's radio interview, Bevin posted statements on Twitter, defending his pardons and commutations of sentences. Bevin said, "The justice system isn't perfect and I personally spent hundreds of hours reading every application and file of those who received a pardon."
Polo Sandoval, CNN, New York.
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CABRERA: Coming up, PolitiFact has announced its Lie of the Year. And it's something President Trump has said more than 70 times.
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CABRERA: You'll see a lot of those best-of 2019 wrap ups and PolitiFact has one, too, marking the Lie of the Year. Once again, that dubious honor goes to the president of the United States. But which whopper got the nod this year?
Jeanne Moos reports.
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JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Are you ready for --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our 2019 PolitiFact Lie of the Year.
MOOS: Drum roll please.
(DRUM ROLL)
MOOS: Actually, forget the drum roll. We know who the winner is. The real question is for which lie does President Trump get the title?
TRUMP: The whistleblower gave a false account.
The whistleblower came out with this horrible statement.
Well, the whistleblower was very inaccurate.
-- defrauded our country, because the whistleblower wrote something that was totally untrue.
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MOOS: Or at least almost completely wrong, or even the whistleblower got it so wrong with so many "O's."
PolitiFact says they found over 70 instances of President Trump repeating what they consider to be a whopper, because the whistleblower's report did correspond to the president's call with Ukraine's president.
TRUMP: Everything he wrote in that report almost was a lie.
MOOS: Many marveled at how PolitiFact picked just one. Really, they had a target-rich environment. Even some who have supported the president say --
ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: He is a congenital liar.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): This man is a pathological liar
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: At times, he is a full-blown B.S. artist.
MOOS (on camera): Some critics are going after PolitiFact for blowing the whistle on the president's whistleblower lie.
(voice-over): "Obviously, the word 'fact' in PolitiFact is a lie also."
The not so coveted title Lie of the Year brought out memes, like, "Ha- ha, I can lie faster than you can fact check." And taunts. "Well, @realdonaldtrump, you didn't win 'Times' Person of the Year, but at least you have this."
TRUMP: The whistleblower gave a lot of very incorrect information.
MOOS (on camera): This is actually the third time that President Trump has won Lie of the Year, which means at least he wasn't lying when he said this.
TRUMP: It is too much winning. We can't take it anymore.
MOOS (voice-over): Jeanne Moos, CNN --
TRUMP: I consider it to be a fake whistleblower.
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": That is not a whistle. That's an air horn.
(LAUGHTER)
MOOS: -- New York.
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CABRERA: Much more to come at the top of the hour, including what's next for the impeachment trial of the president.
Stay with us.
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