Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Historical Impeachment; Sanders Mocks Biden; Carnival Cruise Ships Collide; Little to No Civility at Highest Levels of U.S. Government; Eli Honig Answers Your Questions on Impeachment; Officials Say Russian Surveillance Vessel Operating in Unsafe Manner. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired December 21, 2019 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: You're live in the CNN Newsroom. Thanks for rolling with me into our 5:00 Eastern hour. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

Washington D.C. this weekend, it looks quieter than usual, but it is the calm before a historic storm. Members of Congress have mostly gone home for the holidays, leaving Capitol Hill under a cloud of uncertainty right now. This week, the House of Representatives formally impeached Donald Trump.

But what will happen next is nowhere near as clear. The U.S. Senate will take up the president's case and decide his fate, depending on when House Speaker Nancy Pelosi decides to set those wheels in motion.

A live view here of the convention center in West Palm Beach, Florida. President Trump about to speak there at a student action summit. We'll keep an eye on that. We'll bring you highlights.

CNN's Kristen Holmes, meantime, is in West Palm Beach. Kristen, how much is impeachment weighing on the president and close aides this weekend and how much is he trying to see beyond it?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, when it comes to the president, we're likely going to learn, any moment now, just how much this impeachment is weighing on him. He is speaking, as you said, at this turning point summit. And this is a friendly crowd. Rudy Giuliani also spoke. Sean Hannity, just to give you an example here.

And we know that when President Trump is in front of a friendly crowd, he usually speaks his mind. So, we'll keep you posted on that.

But as for his aides, sources tell me that these White House aides, it's really top of mind. They're trying to put together a plan for the impending Senate trial. And there are a lot of concerns that the president is down here at Mar-a-Lago essentially because they think the longer he's down here, the more access he's going to have to these outside influences.

And this is not an unfounded belief. We know that these members, these guests at Mar-a-Lago, a lot of them are his friends. And he had has run other ideas by them. He's talked to them about Jeff Sessions. He talked to them about Mueller. He talked to them about potentially firing the DNI. These are all conversations that he has with these guests and members.

And so, what the aides are really concerned about is that they've, kind of, shifted the president's focus away from this longer trial. They're trying to convince him that a shorter trial with less witnesses is better, despite what the president originally wanted.

Now, the concern is if he has all this access to people who really push his instincts, are they going to steer him in the opposite direction -- Ana.

CABRERA: OK. Kristen Holmes for us in West Palm Beach, Florida. Keep us posted on the president's remarks this evening. Kristen, we'll check back. Thanks.

I want to bring in former Clinton White House press secretary, Joe Lockhart, and Host of "S.E. CUPP UNFILTERED" here on CNN next hour, S.E. Cupp.

Joe, you have been there. You have done that, in terms of being a part of a White House after an impeachment.

JOE LOCKHART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right.

CABRERA: What do you think is going on with this administration right now?

LOCKHART: Well, I was -- I've been struck by CNN's reporting of both Kristen and Kaitlan Collins last night on how involved the president, apparently, is in the strategy.

I went through this in 1998 and 1999. President Clinton was not very involved. He was not in the meetings where the -- where the strategy was discussed. He didn't sequence the lawyers who were going to speak. You know, he certainly looked at it.

And, you know, as a point of reference, Charles Ruff, the White House Counsel, wrote the opening statement and did not show it to the president. Refused. He said, I am your lawyer. I'm going to do this, but I don't want input from you. I know -- I know what I'm doing here.

It doesn't sound like they're running that kind of White House right now.

CABRERA: No, and you've talked about how President Clinton, really, just kept on doing what he was doing, --

LOCKHART: Yes.

CABRERA: -- in terms of running the rest of the country and the business that, you know, was before him. Aside from being impeachment this week, S.E., the president got his trade deal. We know that he avoided a government shutdown. He ended the week with the stock market hitting record highs and a new poll on CNN, showing 76 percent of Americans feel the economy is good.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

CABRERA: All in all, could he say it was a good week?

CUPP: It's hard to say impeachment aside. I mean, what happened this week was really historic. And that goes in the history books. Whether Trump likes it or not. Whether Trump feels as if he's really been impeached or not almost doesn't matter. That's in the history books and it's a big deal.

But, yes, in any other, you know, administration, a week like this would be great. He's had a number of them, over the course of his past two-plus years. And, yet, he always manages to step on them with bad messaging, saying awful things, doing things that are in- political, or unprofessional, unpresidential, breaking promises that he kept -- that he meant to keep.

So, yes, this, on paper, a great week.

[17:05:00]

I have a feeling he won't turn that into more momentum. I have a feeling he will, instead, go more towards impeachment. I'm a victim, and the Senate's going to acquit me.

CABRERA: And, Joe, the economy was great, when Clinton was going through all of this as well. That seemed to help him. Do you think it'll have the same effect here?

LOCKHART: Well, you know, I think the perception that the economy is strong will always help an incumbent. There is a vast difference, though, between the economies of 1998 and 2019. In 1998, President Clinton was involved in -- I don't want to say created, was involved in the first budget surplus in the -- in a generation. This economy of -- and we had over three percent growth. We were creating jobs at twice the rate of what Donald Trump was creating them. And we didn't have a trillion-dollar deficit.

And when all of this wasn't financed with a credit card. It was financed, actually, in some ways, by a targeted tax hike on the wealthiest of Americans, and then a tax cut for the middle class, which stimulated the economy to the largest economic expansion or the longest economic expansion in our country's history.

So, but politics is about perception, so I don't want to dismiss this. But I think once the Democrats start training their energy on Trump, they're going to -- they have an effective case to say, as you were talking in your last hour, that this economy has been squandered. And this economy is not as strong as it looks. And it's going to be a huge part of the campaign in the poll. CABRERA: I have to ask you, S.E., you know, as senators and lawmakers

in the House went back home now for the holiday break. They have a couple of weeks to kind of mull over what's going to happen in the impeachment trial. And how they're going to handle themselves and conduct themselves. And, you know, Senator, or former Senator, Jeff Flake, a Republican who is now out of -- out of the Senate, wrote an op-ed. He's imploring his former colleagues to take a stand on impeachment, writing this.

All of you condemned the president's behavior during the 2016 campaign. Nearly all of you refused to campaign with him. You knew then that doing so would be wrong. Would be a stain on your reputation and the standing of the Republican Party and would do lasting damage to the conservative cause.

Ask yourself today, has the president changed his behavior? Has he grown in office? Has the mantle of the presidency altered his conduct? The answer is obvious. Next, ask yourself if the president's conduct hasn't changed, has mine?

Will this change any minds?

CUPP: No. And kudos to Jeff Flake for continuing to stand on his principle, even though standing on his principle really got him out of -- out of office and mocked by a lot of Republicans who kept their jobs. So, good for him for still making the case, and it's the right case to make. Very few elected Republicans seem to care about the principles or the morals.

Now, we've talked here many times. The Senate is weighted a little differently. We'll see what they're about to do. Will be in history books. We'll see if people, like Mitt Romney, Cory Gardner, maybe Murkowski, Collins, I mean, you know, get some gumption and decide they don't want to go down defending this terrible abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.

But this kind of advice, this kind of scolding, though it might be right, I don't think is the kind of influential -- has the kind of influence over this group of elected Republicans that maybe you wish it would.

CABRERA: You know, the same week that the president was impeached, the Democrats had their final 2020 Democratic debate, of this year at least. And it was a much smaller stage; seven candidates instead of the, you know, 10 plus in weeks past.

Former White House press secretary, Sarah Sanders, was, apparently, watching. And she tweeted during an answer in which Biden stuttered while he was talking about a boy with a speech problem. This was her tweet. I'm not going to read it. It's not very respectful. She mocked him. He responded in kind, quote, "I've worked my whole life to overcome a stutter and it's my great honor to mentor kids who have experienced the same. It's called empathy. Look it up.

Sanders deleted her tweet. And then, she also apologized. Joe, that was noteworthy to me, given I don't recall her ever apologizing as the White House press secretary. Do you?

LOCKHART: No, she never apologized. I think -- my guess is she would have been fired, moments after she apologized, because that's not how Donald Trump rolls.

I found her original tweet to be vile and disgusting. I found her apology to not be as wholesome (ph) as I would have apologized if I'd made that mistake. But I think you see a lot of things coming together right now. You take that and you take the Christianity today, and the level of hypocrisy that exists among these leaders. I mean, I look at evangelical leaders. And I won't speak about evangelicals, themselves.

[17:10:00]

But their leaders are the ones who say, I won't -- you know, thou shall not commit adultery. And then, they commit adultery. They enrich themselves. They all fly around on private planes. They say the worst thing in the world is abortion and then we find out that they've paid for it.

So, there is a -- there is a hypocrisy that, I think, has infected the Republican Party and the leadership. And it's why Jeff Flake's words will ring so hollow with Republicans in the Senate. They just don't care anymore. It's just about -- they have morphed into what I think Mitch McConnell has always been, just about power. No principle, just power.

CABRERA: S.E., do you care to comment on the Sarah Sanders apology? I mean, this is a president who we know how he feels about apologies. He continues to hit back, even when so many people have pointed out what he does is wrong.

CUPP: Yes. Well, I think the apology was insincere. Because what she said in that apology was, I should have made my point more respectfully. There was no point.

LOCKHART: That you stutter.

CUPP: And there's no respectful way to make that point. And so, the point wasn't that she misused her words or that she was trying to articulate something substantive and did so clumsily. She wasn't trying to articulate.

CABRERA: She was trying to make fun of him.

CUPP: She was trying to make fun of him. And whether she knew that he stuttered or didn't, she was just trying to make fun of him. And it's gross and it's bullying. It's bullying no matter whether it's from an evangelical crowd or a Republican crowd.

LOCKHART: Or a left wing crowd.

CUPP: Whatever it is, it's gross and it's unacceptable and it's too easily walked into now. That's not all Trump's fault but Trump certainly opened the door for more public people to feel very comfortable walking through that door.

CABRERA: Real quick, I've got to ask you both. S.E., I'll start with you about, you know, the end of the debate, where the candidates were asked if they wanted to give a gift or apology to fellow candidates in the race. And two people apologized. They are both women. The other candidates all gave gifts.

CUPP: Right. Right.

CABRERA: Men, of course. Beyond, you know, who gave the apologies, what struck me, S.E., was what the women were apologized for.

CUPP: Yes. Yes.

CABRERA: For getting worked up. For being blunt.

CUPP: Yes. Right. It was interesting. It was a weird question, right, can we just agree. That was a real weird question. And so, they all did their best to answer it on the spot.

But I did think it was interesting. And I saw it, also, as more generational. Because women of Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar, my mom's generation, are quick to apologize. That's how, I think, a lot of women naturally feel. When you're given the opportunity, I'll take -- I will apologize. I'll admit I did something wrong. I think that's less so with my generation of women.

And then, certainly, you know, the millennial generation of women is taught to lean in and know your worth and demand more and all of that sort of thing. So, it struck me -- in addition to this coming from the two women on the stage, it struck me as a generational divide as well. That was really interesting.

CABRERA: Did -- what did you think about that, Joe?

LOCKHART: I will leave it to S.E.'s wisdom. I agree with everything she just said. I don't think voters are looking either for people to be apologetic or to be gifting or bombastic.

CUPP: That's a weird question.

CABRERA: But would guys be apologizing for getting worked up or being aggressive or -- you know, that's the thing.

LOCKHART: No. And what I think what the voters are looking for right now, in the aftermath of Donald Trump, is humility. And the first male Democrat who can figure that out, I think you see it in spurts, will have a leg up on the rest of the men.

And I agree with S.E. which is there's nothing to apologize, if you're passionate about something, if you make a good point. Now, if you mock someone, like Sarah Huckabee, then you have everything to apologize for. But Elizabeth Warren's -- her rise in the polls was about how passionate she was about this. It wasn't about the details of her plan. It was about how worked up and excited.

CABRERA: It's an authenticity that she was sharing.

LOCKHART: And happy she was to say, I've got this thing figured out. So, she does not need to apologize for that.

CABRERA: Joe Lockhart, S.E. Cupp, always good to have both of you with us. And happy holidays. Happy New Year.

CUPP: You, too.

CABRERA: I'll see you on the next year, the next decade. Don't forget to watch S.E.'s show. She's here at the top of the hour with "S.E. CUPP UNFILTERED". It's at 6:00 Eastern.

Iowa is a popular place to be this week before Christmas. Several of the 2020 Democrats are making stops here. The candidates are talking impeachment but are voters?

And President Trump is on the attack almost every day. He'll target anyone, political rivals, dead lawmakers, even journalists. But if you think civil discourse in politics is the goal, I'll speak with someone who says, think again. And he argues, U.S. history says focusing on working together in Washington can make life a lot worse for millions of Americans.

You're live in the CNN Newsroom.

[17:14:55]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: We're just over a month away from the first in the nation caucus in Iowa. And, right now, a slew of presidential hopefuls are there, Senator Elizabeth Warren, Cory Booker, Amy Klobuchar, and former Vice President Joe Biden all storming the battleground state holding events. Earlier today, in front of a gaggle of reporters, Biden argued there has never been a greater need to unify the country than right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No one running for president who has more reason to be upset and angry with Republicans. There's no one running who has had their family and their only surviving son attacked viciously. And, look, I don't say this because I think we're all going to hold hands and sing kumbaya together when this is over. I don't think that's going to happen. But I say it because it's the only way we get anything done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: CNN Political Reporter Arlette Saenz is on the ground for us in Iowa. Arlette, Biden was also asked about the impeachment of President Trump. What was his message?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Ana, Joe Biden is kicking off his two-day swing through Iowa here, after that debate on Thursday night. And he talked a bit about impeachment. Joe Biden isn't -- wasn't in favor of impeachment for the president. But he also said that this isn't necessarily something that the country or Democrats should be celebrating. Take a listen to what he had to say in Ottumwa earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The fact is they -- there's nothing to celebrate about with impeachment. It's a sad moment for the country. And there's -- don't get me wrong.

[17:20:00]

It's not that I think it's unfair that Donald Trump has been impeached and have to face the charges that have been made. But the idea that it's worth celebrating, I find -- I find counter-productive because there's nothing to celebrate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, Biden has repeatedly talked about how while the House and Senate are going to be focused on impeachment proceedings, his job is to be making the case out here with voters that he is the best candidate, the best option to defeat President Trump.

You also heard him talk a bit about unity and the need for bipartisan consensus going forward. Biden is going to be spending a lot of time here in Iowa. He the leader in national polls but not exactly the case here in The Hawkeye State. And, some January, he's going to be spending a lot of time trying to convince voters to caucus for him.

CABRERA: And a lot of us have been discussing the impeachment trial and the Senate could sideline a number of senators from the campaign trail. How are they planning to handle that?

SAENZ: Yes, Ana, that's right. Several of the Democratic presidential contenders are going to be involved in the potential impeachment trial. You have Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar and Cory Booker would be spending a substantial amount of time in Washington, D.C. on Capitol Hill for that trial.

So, they may have to come up with some creative ways to get to voters and communicate to voters here in Iowa. In fact, Amy Klobuchar at an event earlier today said that she might have to even Skype into some events here in Iowa. She talked about her husband, potentially, coming to campaign for her. All of these candidates know how important presence here in the state is going to be as we are 44 days out from those caucuses -- Ana.

CABRERA: Arlette Saenz in Iowa. Thank you for that reporting.

Tragedy just days before Christmas as fire rips through a crowded Las Vegas motel apartment. We'll have those details.

Plus, a frightening scene at a Mexican port. Two cruise ships collide injuring several guests and it's caught on camera. Wait until you see the damage.

You're live in the CNN Newsroom.

[17:22:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: An early morning fire at a Las Vegas motel apartment complex has killed six people and injured 13 others. Investigators are trying to figure out what caused this fire which ripped through the building just before sunrise. Some people jumped out of windows to escape. A neighbor described how he and others tried to help.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOMINIC WILKINS: So, then, they just started jumping. And once they started doing that, I, kind of, just started trying to help them guide them down. Do you know what I mean? Like, they were jumping from the second floor, third floor.

A lady, I think she was pregnant. She hit her head pretty bad. Her and her husband took her to the doctor. I hope she's doing all right. A few people dropped -- I think another guy broke his leg jumping from the third floor. Just in a panic, people were just trying to get out of the building.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Investigators say the fire seems to have started in the kitchen area of one apartment. Residents told fire crews the building, just off the Vegas strip, had no heat. And some people may have been using their stoves to keep warm.

Imagine you're on a cruise. It's your hard-earned vacation. Time to destress. And then, this happens.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's going to hit us next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Crash and burn. Pretty terrifying, right? Two Carnival cruise ships collided in Mexico Friday morning, while in port at Cozumel. The Carnival ship, Glory, was pulling into port, when it hit the Carnival Legend which was already docked. Six passengers were injured on board the Carnival Glory which was, then, sent back to its home port in New Orleans.

Polo Sandoval is following this for us. Polo, this thing should -- this kind of thing should not happen. What was the cause, do we know?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I can tell you, the people aboard that ship certainly have a story to tell here, Ana, especially when you look at these jarring photos. These pictures were shot early yesterday morning. This is as one of those ships was docking there in the Mexican resort town of Cozumel when both Carnival ships collided. The brunt of the damage, they're focusing on the Carnival Glory, as you point out.

A formal investigation is being launched now. The captain of that ship sending a letter to all of the passengers, about 2,900 aboard there, or at least that's the capacity, explaining the -- what happened with this incident. They say that spontaneous wind gusts and strong currents were likely a factor here.

The ship was inspected. Believe it or not, in spite of all this damage, the ship was able to sail back to New Orleans, Louisiana, where we expect it to make it back before the end of the weekend here. A final note here. About six guests aboard that ship did report minor injuries, according to what the captain wrote to their guests. However, they were treated there and quickly released. Apparently, there were just minor injuries.

And then, last note, they are offering not only an apology, but $100 per state room for these guests to be able to spend on board before it pulls back into port.

CABRERA: So, the trip is going on?

SANDOVAL: It continues. The itinerary is resumed. It did delay its launch from Cozumel a couple of hours. But, nonetheless, it is back on schedule now with about two days out at sea. And, like I said, the folks here are certainly going to have a story to tell when they get back to New Orleans.

CABRERA: With how slow those boats are going, it's pretty amazing when you look up close and see how much damage.

SANDOVAL: It takes a mile for them to come to a stop.

CABRERA: Incredible, wow.

SANDOVAL: It's crazy.

CABRERA: Polo, thank you.

SANDOVAL: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: Today, Democratic frontrunner, Joe Biden, was in Iowa, making clear what his focus will be after impeachment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Why it's even going to be more important when this is over, no matter how it turns out, to unify the country. We have to unify.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Unify the country, he says. It seems like a lofty goal. Or is it? My next guest says focusing on unity may have some dire consequences for millions of Americans, if history is any guide. That's next, live, in the CNN Newsroom. [17:29:34]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:33:35]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: The current president of the United States has childish nicknames for sitting U.S. Senators. He mimics the hand gestures of disabled people. He insults the memory of deceased and distinguished servants to the shock of their loved ones. On the other side of the aisle, a Democratic congresswoman used a term for the president that would get me fired if I said it right now.

And during the impeachment, instead of laser focusing on whether President Trump committed offenses worthy of getting him thrown out of office, members of Congress way too often bickered with each other.

During this narrow sliver of American history, impeachment, debates, so much divisiveness. Right now, there's little or maybe no civility at the highest level of government.

Adam Serwer covers politics for "The Atlantic."

Adam, you have a fantastic article in the latest issue, entitled "Civility Is Overrated," where you argue that calls for civility may be a mistake and desperation for achieving it could cause greater harm. Explain that. Why is civility wrong?

ADAM SERWER, STAFF WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": Thank you for having me and thank you for saying that.

My piece distinguishes between, you know, the civility that grows out of genuine mutual respect and kindness and the kind we see today, which is basically telling other people to shut up.

You can see that with the president, who, during the 2018 midterms, went from demonizing his opponents to saying we need to end the politics of personal destruction, and saying what he meant by that is the press should stop reporting on the things he says and being mean about it.

[17:35:11]

I want to distinguish between respect and what I think is an attitude you can say what you want but other people can't criticize you for it.

I think it's also important to remember that democracy is a system for managing conflict. There's always clashes of value in a democracy. The important thing is making sure the clashes are resolved in a democratic way and a way in which everyone's rights are respected.

The possibility of never having any conflict at all is simply not realistic.

CABRERA: Who is harmed the most by trying to force civility? SERWER: So I think there's -- it -- what I think -- when the

government uses demands for civility to silence its critics, I think that is not particularly legitimate.

I'll give you an example. A couple of years ago, Sarah Sanders went into a restaurant and those people, because they did not agree with the administration's position on LGBT rights, said they didn't feel comfortable serving her and she walked out. That's a protest, completely civil.

In a free country, you don't have to respect the representatives of the state. The representatives of the state have to respect you, but you don't have to respect them. That's freedom of speech.

Instead, we got this conversation how rude it was for regular people to say I don't respect the current leadership so I don't want to serve them in my own establishment.

I think that's really the kind of -- you know, when the government turns arguments about oppression into arguments about manners, that's the kind of civility that's not about respecting each other but is about silencing criticism from people who have less power than you.

CABRERA: You talk about oppression as part of that. Do you see the current anger, outrage, incivility as a clash of Democrats versus or Republicans, or something else?

SERWER: So I think the reason our current politics is particularly uncivil is actually the incivility is a symptom of a polarization problem. And the polarization problem is born of the unresolved American race question.

What you see with the two parties is they are very much aligned along racial, cultural and religious lines and not equally.

If you are a white Christian, you are likely to be Republican, and if you are not those things, you're likely to be a Democrat. So the Democrat Party is more heterodox, more diverse and because of that -- not because they're better people but because it is a coalition made up of different kinds of people, there's more tolerance on that side.

When you have identities, with religious, ethnic, political identities aligned in this way, arguments about identity become more existential, more vicious, even if there's agreement about policy questions because people feel this existential threat to their status, to their existence.

This is something you see, particularly with Donald Trump, when he goes out and he says, you know, the Democrats want you to stop calling it Thanksgiving or they want you to stop saying Merry Christmas. These are attempts to make his base feel threatened so they get angry at the other side and support him.

Politicians can benefit from this kind of division in a way that people don't really benefit. CABRERA: You talk about the power structure in our culture and

society, minorities having less power, less of a say in the past. Do you think this has anything to do with why the leading 2020 Democratic candidates are all white?

SERWER: I think when you -- I think 2016 was kind of a traumatic election for a lot of Democrats and they fear that they -- I think they rightly see the election of Donald Trump as a backlash to the two terms of the first black president. So they are thinking we need to pick someone who is going to seem less culturally threatening to the other side.

That right there is an example of asymmetry of this division.

The Republican Party is not worried about picking someone that Democrats are going to be angry at or afraid of. But the Democratic Party is very much concerned about not freaking out the other side so they don't have another four years of Donald Trump.

CABRERA: Adam Serwer, good to have you here. Really great conversation.

SERWER: Thank you for having me.

CABRERA: Again, I appreciate the thought-provoking aspects of your piece.

SERWER: Thank you.

CABRERA: There's so much more for people to read in "The Atlantic."

Thank you, Adam.

[17:39:42]

Now that President Trump has been impeached, does he lose the ability to issue pardons? That's one of your questions this week. Elie Honig will be here to answer it in cross-exam, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: President Trump is now the third U.S. president ever to be impeached. In a historic vote this week, the House voted to pass both articles of impeachment on abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. The Senate will eventually hold a trial to determine if Trump should be removed from office.

But before that happens, the House has to send over the articles of impeachment, something House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said she won't commit to until a clear and fair path is presented.

Time for cross-exam with CNN legal analyst and former federal and state prosecutor, Elie Honig. Every week, Elie Honig joins us to answer your questions on impeachment.

I have to point this out. This month, we had more viewer questions than ever before from 48 states, plus D.C., and 17 countries around the world.

With that, Elie, let's get to it.

One viewer wants to know, can Speaker Nancy Pelosi legally hold onto the articles of impeachment and refuse to send them to the Senate and will the strategy succeed for House Democrats.

ELI HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: That's the big question this week. This argument that the president is not officially impeached or the Senate has to wait for formal notification from the house is a creative fiction. Legally and logically, it's on shaky ground no matter which party is making the argument, and both sides have.

[17:45:05]

Sometimes the answer is right there on the face of the Constitution. The Constitution tells us the House has sole power to impeach, the Senate has sole power to try impeachments.

There's an ancient Senate rule that says, upon receipt from the House, but the Senate rule, procedural rule that does not trump the Constitution -- no pun intended. Does not trump the Constitution.

The House voted. We saw it. They counted the votes. Nancy Pelosi's gavel came down. That's it. He's impeached. It's now in the Senate's court.

I don't know this gambit will work out by Nancy Pelosi. There's a couple of easy countermoves by the Republicans. One, the Senate can say, you don't want to send the articles, keep them. Two, they could say, we're trying this, we have sole power, try to stop us. No court will stop it.

I think Nancy Pelosi is trying an important strategic goal here. She wants the trial and Chuck Schumer wants the trial to be real, to have witnesses, have actual truth finding. I just know if this is the way to get it.

CABRERA: We heard a number of Republicans trying to defend the president that the evidence against him was indirect. One view asked, are criminal cases ever decided solely on indirect evidence.

HONIG: Yes, they absolutely are. It's important for people to understand that.

Here's how judges explain the difference between direct and indirect evidence to a jury. If you look out the window and see the raindrops falling, that's direct evidence it's raining. But if the window shade was drawn and you saw people coming in the courtroom door, carrying umbrellas, dripping wet, wearing raincoats, that's indirect evidence that it's raining. But you can still convict even solely on indirect evidence.

I think the argument the whole case is indirect is not true. It's a combination of direct evidence, like the July 25th call between President Trump and President Zelensky, and all sorts of indirect evidence. When you take it together, Democrats have made a strong showing substantively.

CABRERA: Now that the president has been impeachment, one viewer wants to know, does he lose the ability to issue pardons.

HONIG: Very common question from our viewers. There's an ambiguous phrase in the Constitution that says the president has the power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the U.S. except in cases of impeachment. There's a way to read that to say, once the president is impeached, he loses the pardon power. But that's not what our law says. It's not what our history says.

It's saying the president can pardon people who have been impeached. In other words, it's saying the president can pardon someone from a criminal offense but he cannot un-impeach someone who's been impeached himself and other federal officers.

It makes sense because impeachment is really one of Congress' key checks on the executive. If the executive, the president could undo it, it would be meaningless.

CABRERA: What are the questions for the week ahead?

HONIG: There are so many.

How long will Nancy Pelosi hold the articles of impeachment? I think it's a show. She's trying to gain leverage. One way or another, we'll see a Senate trial I believe starting in early January.

Second, will Senate Republicans come to the table and negotiate an agreement on witnesses with Chuck Schumer? That's option one.

If they don't manage to negotiate an agreement, it's going to come down to majority rule, which is question three.

Are any the Republican Senators going to flip and vote with Democrats? It's 53 Republicans and 47 Democrats. If four Republicans agree on witnesses, we'll see witnesses. We will see a much more interesting and substantive trial.

CABRERA: Four Republicans aren't going to get the job done in removing the president from office. You have to have 20 but --

(CROSSTALK)

HONIG: Exactly right.

CABRERA: Elie Honig, always good to have you.

HONIG: Thank you, Ana.

CABRERA: Happy Hanukkah and happy New Year. I won't see you until then.

(CROSSTALK)

HONIG: Thank you. Have a great Christmas. CABRERA: We're so lucky to have you as part of all of this. Thank

you.

HONIG: Thank you.

CABRERA: It sounds like something out of a spy movie here. A Russian spy ship operating off the east coast of the United States and the Coast Guard is warning boats in that area to be careful.

Plus, two best friends, one epic night. Ring in the new year with Anderson Cooper and Andy Cohen. "NEW YEARS EVE LIVE" begins at 8:00 p.m. Eastern only on CNN.

(MUSIC)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:52:27]

CABRERA: Welcome back.

This sounds like something out of a James Bond movie. Russian surveillance ships sailing waters off the east coast. The Coast Guard says it is happening. And the ship is putting boaters in danger with its reckless behavior.

CNN's Brian Todd has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's known for playing "Hunt for Red October"-style games with the U.S. Navy. But according to U.S. officials, the Russian spy ship, the "Viktor Leonov," is sailing recklessly right off of America's shores.

Two U.S. officials telling CNN, the "Leonov" has been operating off the coast of South Carolina and Florida in a, quote, "unsafe manner." Not using its lights in low visibility weather, not responding to signals from commercial ships, which are trying to avoid colliding with it.

STEPHEN BLANK, FORMER PROFESSOR, UNITED STATES ARMY WAR COLLEGE: It's absolutely purposeful. First of all, this is an intelligence ship. So, it's not going to disclose its point of location to anybody.

They like to be able to intimidate people and bully them and this is another way of doing that.

TODD: The U.S. Coast Guard says the "Leonov" is making other erratic movements and warns other ships to maintain a sharp lookout for the Russian spy ship.

The "Leonov" has been prowling around America's East Coast for more than four years near some key U.S. Navy installations: Cape Canaveral, which handles underwater operations. Kings Bay, Georgia, home to nuclear missile submarines. Norfolk, the world's largest naval complex. And New London, Connecticut, another major submarine base.

Experts say those U.S. bases offer a treasure trove of possible intelligence for Vladimir Putin's Navy.

BLANK: Where they'd be looking for the schedule of ships entering and leaving the port. They'd be trying to monitor as much of their communications as possible. They would also be trying to monitor underwater developments if they can track submarines.

TODD: Experts say Russian vessels have even spying on undersea Internet cables.

MICHAEL KOFMAN, RUSSIAN MILITARY EXPERT, CNA CORPORATION: And the reason why they want the map, so that, in future conflicts or crisis, they actually have the opportunity, if they can, to attack and destroy, or otherwise tamper.

TODD: But despite the dazzling unveilings of hypersonic missiles and other weapons, Putin's military hasn't been hitting on all cylinders recently.

It's only aircraft carrier, the "Admiral Kuznetsov," caught fire last week during repairs at an Arctic seaport.

In August, during what U.S. officials believe was the testing of a secret nuclear-powered missile, a mysterious explosion occurred, killing five.

This summer, a fire aboard a Russian submersible killed 14 crew members.

Tragic examples, analysts say, of the Russian president overextending his military.

JEFFREY EDMONDS, EXPERT ON RUSSIA AND EURASIA: There are certain parts of their military, they're very formidable, but they push the entire military as much as they can. And so those parts that might be weaker or older might be more subject to accidents and mishaps.

[17:55:15]

TODD (on camera): Analysts say, despite the recklessness, the accidents, all the setbacks, we shouldn't expect any of it to deter Vladimir Putin from pursuing his grand strategy. Not only of projecting Russian military power across the globe but also of signaling his American and NATO adversaries not to mess around with his turf -- those naval bases in the Black and Baltic Seas, the Pacific, and the Arctic Ocean that the Russians value so much.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: That does it for me this hour. I'm Ana Cabrera, in New York. I'll be back just an hour from now.

Meantime, my colleague, S.E. Cupp, continues our coverage of today's news right after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S.E. CUPP, CNN HOST: Welcome to UNFILTERED.

Here's tonight's headline.

[17:59:49]

Shameless. President Trump has said he wants an immediate trial. Why? Because he wants vindication from his Republican friends in the Senate. He wants to rub a potential acquittal in the faces of Democrats who voted to impeach him on charges of abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. That, Mr. President, goes in the history books whether you like it or not.