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Senate Trial Top Of President's Mind During Holiday Break; Newly Released Emails Reveal White House Order To Freeze Ukraine Aid Came Roughly 90 Minutes After Trump-Zelensky Call; Tensions Grow As Satellite Photos Show Work At North Korea Missile Site; New Movie Depicts Fight to Free Innocent Man from Death Row, Makes Strong Argument Against Death Penalty; How Senate Impeachment Trials Work; Selfies: Campaigning in the 21st Century; Eddie Murphy Revives Mr. Robinson, Gumby, and Buckwheat. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired December 22, 2019 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SCOTT MORRISON, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: -- acknowledge that the direct connection to any single fire event, it's not credibly. We must take action on climate change.

[18:00:00]

LINDA KINKADE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In the meantime, authorities are asking residents in New South Wales to be wary and stay away from the danger zone. They fires they say will continue throughout the holidays.

Linda Kinkade, CNN.

ANA CABRERA, CNN NEWSROOM: You are live in the CNN Newsroom. Happy Hanukkah to all those who celebrate today. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

President Trump is spending the holidays in Florida but he is not alone. His historic impeachment by the House of Representatives is right there with him having followed him south from Washington, D.C. And that was made very clear last night at an event where he bashed the House Democrats who impeached him, bashed the news media which he calls corrupt and even accused the speaker of the House of intentionally stalling the further impeachment process, saying it's because she, quote, has no case.

Now, the top Democrat in the Senate, Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, spoke to reporters today. He says the impeachment trial in the Senate has got to include witness testimony and nothing kept secret.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Until we hear from the witnesses, until we get the documents, the American people will correctly assume that those blocking their testimony were aiding and abetting a cover-up, plain and simple.

So I'll close by saying this. President Trump, release the emails, let the witnesses testify. What are you afraid of? (END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: CNN's Kristen Holmes is in South Florida not far from the president's Mar-a-Lago Resort. Kristen, any hint from the president today that he is receptive to those demands from Senate Democrats?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, Ana, ultimately, it is really not up to the president what this impeachment trial will look like. It's going to be up to the senators. And as we've seen, really, those Republican senators to give into these demands despite the fact that Mitch McConnell has said that he's working step by step with the White House every inch of the way.

It's really him who appears to be running the show. We know that at the beginning, President Trump wanted to have a longer trial. He wanted to have a lot of witnesses. He believed that this would be a good show, that he would be cleared with a longer trial. We know Mitch McConnell has been hesitant to have any witnesses behind the scenes essentially, telling the president that the more witnesses that are brought forward, the more problems there could be for President Trump.

But when it comes to the president and this process, we are told or we heard today from the vice president's chief of staff, Marc Short, who said that the president is actually looking forward to a trial in the Senate. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC SHORT, VICE PRESIDENT PENCE'S CHIEF OF STAFF : He's frustrated with what he finds to be a completely unreasonable impeachment. So, sure, he's frustrated by that. But he's also anxious to not get just acquitted but exonerated in the Senate. He's looking forward to this opportunity to have a fair trial in the Senate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, if you look at his Twitter feed from today, you wouldn't think he was looking forward to having a fair trial in the Senate. He was slamming Democrats, he was slamming crazy Nancy Pelosi, as he called her. Not a man who looks like he's looking forward to being in front of all these people.

But the bottom line here, where we are, is that is you have the Democrats and the Republicans, they have dug their heels in, and you have a Congress that is not back in session until early January.

CABRERA: And Kristen, let me come back to you for a second and talk about the new information we learned this weekend in these new documents that were released as part of a Freedom of Information Act pertaining to that phone call that the president held with the president of Ukraine, Zelensky, and the aid being withheld.

HOLMES: That's right. So, essentially, what we're learning from this email is that it was 90 minutes after the call between President Trump and President Zelensky that there was already a movement to contact the Pentagon to freeze these funds.

Now, re reached out to the White House. The Budget Office says there's no use linking the two things, that they're not related. But this is really giving fuel to Democrats. And let me tell you why. Because that email came from a Trump appointee, his name is Michael Duffey, and he works at the Office of Management and Budget, and he is someone -- one of the four people that Democrats have said that they want to hear from in an impeachment trial. So this is really up to the ante here.

You heard Chuck Schumer there talking about why they won't present these witnesses. It gives Democrats a stronger case because, again, the man who wrote this email essentially getting the ball rolling for the Pentagon to freeze this aid was one of the witnesses that was requested here.

So this is really raising a lot of antennas and they're raising a lot of questions about how this is going to play into the overall effect if it does really at all, Ana.

CABRERA: Okay. Kristen Holmes for us in Florida, thank you.

As Democrats and Republicans battle to shape the messaging on the impeachment process, I want to bring in CNN Political Analysis Karoun Demirjian, she is a Congressional Reporter for The Washington Post, and CNN Legal Analyst Michael Zeldin.

[18:05:03]

Michael, let me start with you. As a former federal prosecutor, I have to ask you about those newly released emails showing that aid to Ukraine was frozen about an hour-and-a-half after President Trump's call with President Zelensky on July 25th. How significant is this evidence?

MICHAEL ZELDIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it sure raises the imprints of causation. That is that the call with Zelensky was the predicate and the act that followed it was the holding up of that aid, just as has been alleged by the House Democrats in their articles of impeachment. That is the quid pro quo is essentially laid out, I think, in those events back-to-back, which I think gives -- as Kristen said, gives fuel to the fire of desire for there to be witnesses in the Senate trial.

CABRERA: Karoun, do you think part of Nancy Pelosi's decision to stall the process is to let other possibly incriminating evidence come out?

KAROUN DEMIRJIAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: That's a possibility. I mean, we're in a holding pattern anyway for these two weeks. And so if she feels that holding back the naming of the managers for the impeachment process and not sending over the articles gives her time to -- gives Chuck Schumer time, frankly, to negotiate a deal that will let there be more witnesses in the Senate, then that's a potential leverage that she can try to use. I think it really depends though on what the president ends up doing, because you've got Mitch McConnell fairly locked in not wanting any witnesses. Clearly, Pelosi and Schumer do. But if the GOP sticks with Mitch McConnell, that's kind of the ball game because they have the majority of senators in the Senate.

If the president though tries to start to push the envelope and say, well, fine, make a deal, if I can get Hunter Biden and the whistleblower, I don't care if people from the administration testify. That will be going back on what the pattern has been for several months at this point, but it would strengthen Pelosi's hand in trying to push that.

And as more evidence comes forward, Democrats can try to make that argument and see if there are any willing Republicans on the GOP side in the Senate who would actually say, wait a second, there's something else here that we need to maybe take a look at.

But so far, this has been still a partisan discussion. But whether those those witnesses should be included to try to dig more into this information that's coming out after the House's vote.

CABRERA: But public pressure, we know, plays a role when it comes to politics. And The Washington Post, your paper, Karoun, and ABC released this poll this week finding 71 percent of respondents believe Trump should allow senior administration officials, like acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney and former National Security Adviser John Bolton, to testify in a likely Senate impeachment trial.

Michael, you have this new poll, we have new evidence. Is it getting harder for Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to avoid agreeing to fact witnesses and having an impartial trial?

ZELDIN: If there is any break in the Republican ranks. Remember, the question about whether there will or will not be witnesses requires 51 votes. McConnell has 53. If there's seepage of any of the Republicans who are of conscience or facing tough re-elections to get them over to the Democratic side, then we'll have witnesses.

If they hold true, I think McConnell realizes that witness testimony from people with firsthand knowledge will not help the president. That is -- there are -- just as Duffey has something to say about the quid pro quo, I think Mulvaney and Bolton have stuff too, which is damaging. And I think that the speaker knows this and that's why he does not want these witnesses there.

CABRERA: You're thinking Majority Leader Mitch McConnell --

ZELDIN: Majority -- did I say, speaker? I'm sorry, yes, Mitch McConnell.

CABRERA: No. It's hard to keep everybody and (INAUDIBLE) in our head sometimes. It's all good.

ZELDIN: That's right, exactly. Sorry.

CABRERA: That happens to me too.

Karoun, listen to Senator Roy Blunt, a Republican, getting closer to criticizing how President Trump handled the Ukraine situation. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ROY BLUNT (R-MO): Any other president would have said, I'll have the attorney general call you about some things we're looking into. This one didn't.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: So did he make a mistake?

BLUNT: Presidents make mistakes. I don't know if this call was a mistake, but, again, I think there are plenty of mistakes that have been made by both President Obama and President Trump regarding Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Karoun, it's still so hard for Republicans to say something here isn't right and with many of the president's supporters actively battling against an impartial trial. Why don't they want to hear from Mulvaney or Bolton who could offer some clarification? And if Republicans don't believe the president did anything wrong, couldn't they actually be beneficial to the president's case?

DEMIRJIAN: Sure. But I think probably a lot of Republicans are a little bit worried about whether or not the president did something wrong. As you said, you're hearing so many Republicans -- some at least say, look, this isn't necessarily exactly how I would prefer that a president conduct himself, which is a diplomatic way of saying, there's something wrong here but I don't think it necessarily rises to the level of an impeachable offense and let's just stop it while we can before anything else comes out.

[18:10:01]

I think that Republicans are probably concerned that people close to the president might have something to say. There are some hints of that during the open impeachment hearings that you saw in the House where you saw Gordon Sondland produced emails where he said that everybody was in the loop. You have to basically decide that the outset with the intent here was good or bad.

And I think that given Mulvaney's past comments from the podium and what others have alleged, they're not 100 percent sure that those testimonies would necessarily go 100 percent in favor of the president.

So it's a bit of a Pandora's Box that I think that the Senate GOP is determined that it's better to leave closed. But, again, the question is does more evidence come out and does the president put his thumb on the scale one way or the other to make it more palatable to enough GOP senators to say, actually, maybe we should be hearing from more people here. And it's interesting also when you talked about public opinion a moment ago, yes, our poll shows that more than 70 percent of the country thinks that these people should come forward, these aides should come forward.

But at the same time, you still have the country pretty much stuck at under 50 percent approval for the whole impeaching the president and pushing him out of office, which is a relevant comparison just because the second article of impeachment has to do with obstruction of Congress, which is exactly keeping these people from coming to testify. So this is the mix-up in where people's emotions are and what they will call maybe not perfect but maybe not impeachable, and it's all in the same pot.

CABRERA: Michael, Senator Schumer called what Republicans are doing aiding and abetting a cover-up. Would you go that far?

ZELDIN: Well, I'm not sure I'd use the words aiding and abetting but it's certainly, to Karoun's point, making the case that the House Republicans tried to make, which is that this was a case in which there was no actual witnesses who had firsthand knowledge. Now, they're saying, well here are these witnesses with firsthand knowledge and you're refusing to allow us to have them be called. That's essentially aiding and abetting or, in some respect, preventing the truth from being heard.

And I think that in the case of his impeachment, you really need some sort of national closure at the end of the event, that is that the people have to feel that the process was fair, we learned all that can be learned, we reached the conclusion that was appropriately reached and now we should move on. The way this is set up now, we're going to have this rush to judgment in the Senate and people are going to be left uncomfortable. 71 percent thinking more witnesses should have been called. The Democrats feel that they were stonewalled, will never get closure and this thing will linger on and on. And I think that's a very bad thing for our country.

CABRERA: Michael Zeldin and Karoun Demirjian, good to have both of you here. Thank you so much, especially --

ZELDIN: Thank you. Happy holidays.

DEMIRJIAN: Thank you.

CABRERA: Happy holidays to you too.

North Korea has a holiday warning for the United States. New CNN reporting on what Kim Jong-un may have meant when he talked about that Christmas gift.

Plus, Rudy Giuliani kicking off the holidays with a party at Mar-a- Lago.

And I sit down with a man behind the movie, Just Mercy. Get the real story of the person played by Michael B. Jordan in the film.

You're live in the CNN Newsroom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

CABRERA: CNN has obtained new satellite images of North Korea. They show the expansion of buildings linked to the production of long-range ballistic missile launchers. It's a disturbing revelation as the world waits to find out exactly what North Korea's Kim Jong-un had in mind when he ominously promised to send the U.S. a Christmas gift.

CNN's Will Ripley joins us from Hong Kong. Will, we know that talks between the U.S. and North Korea have stalled in recent months, but how concerned are U.S. officials that North Korea intends to make some kind of provocative display?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think the United States is keeping a very close eye on activity in North Korea right now, Ana, and North Korea knows that. So, yes, we have these satellite images showing expansion at a known production facility tied to their missile program. There was also a publicized meeting over the weekend between Kim Jong-un, the North Korean leader, and his top military officials.

That said, I spoke with a source who says the chances of some sort of a long-range missile launch this week around Christmas actually very low. This according to my sources, North Korea trying to dial up the pressure on the U.S. but not to cross a line that would alienate not only President Trump but also China and Russia, traditional allies that have just started to kind of open up the smuggling routes into North Korea more than they have over the last year-and-a-half or so.

North Korea wants to have ties go well with its allies. They don't want to do something that could kind of turn the clock back in terms of the level of pressure that's on their country right now. That's why this source is telling me, Ana, that at least for the time being, chances of a launch are low, the Christmas gift itself, Kim Jong-un expected to announce a new hard line stance when dealing with the United States, including taking denuclearization completely off the table.

CABRERA: There is some indication that Kim sees President Trump as politically weakened, right, because of impeachment, and that Kim's inner circle is divided over engaging with the U.S. right now. Explain why Trump's situation matters to North Korea.

RIPLEY: Because they want to make sure that President Trump actually has the political power to implement any sort of a deal that would be reached. And given the deep division and the fact that President Trump was impeached in the House, North Koreans watch a lot of cable news, they know that as of right now, he might not be in the best position to focus on any sort of nuclear deal or at least the implementation of it, especially given this is now moving into 2020, a very sensitive election year.

So my source says, what the North Koreas are going to do, they're going to kind of take a step back, take a wait-and-see approach, continue to remind the world that they have this nuclear capability. And I wouldn't rule out a launch, by the way, in 2020, but they've already gotten the effect that they want around Christmas time, which is lots of western media talking about the possibility of a launch. Why would they need to go through with it now when they could maybe save it for an even more vulnerable time closer to the U.S. election perhaps?

CABRERA: Will Ripley, always with the know on all things North Korea. Thank you for your reporting.

The president's personal attorney is talking about all the dirt he's digging up in Ukraine but who are the people feeding him that information? We'll take a look at the questionable reputations of Rudy Giuliani's informants.

But, first, Before the Bell with Christine Romans. Christine?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Ana. It's likely to be a quiet Christmas week on Wall Street, quite a difference from a year ago when stocks tanked. But this time, investor have a lot to celebrate, a phase one trade deal with China, three Fed rate cuts and an improving U.S. economic outlook.

[18:20:04]

Those factors helped push major averages to new highs this year. All three are on track for gains of more than 20 percent in 2019.

So could we see that kind of performance again next year?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 2020 is going to be a lot tougher than 2019, not a bad year. And, in fact, if we could get a real trade deal with China, it could be a good year.

ROMANS: 2020 I going to be a lot tougher than 2019, not a bad year. And, in fact, if we could get a real trade deal with China, it could be a good year.

Trade remains a risk though. Analysts say if the phase one deal isn't signed next month, optimism will begin to fade.

In New York, I'm Christine Romans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: After President Trump was impeached this week, his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, was reportedly seen dancing and socializing at the president's Mar-a-Lago club last night.

[18:25:03]

Giuliani tells CNN Trump continues to be very supportive of his efforts to dig up dirt on Democrats in Ukraine. Giuliani declined to say if Trump actually directed him to go on his most recent fact- finding mission there, but apparently many of the people Giuliani is working with in Ukraine have dubious reputations. CNN's Fred Pleitgen has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Seemingly unfazed by President Trump's possible imminent impeachment, Rudy Giuliani is continuing his push to dig up dirt on the Bidens.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: He has a lot of good information. I hear he's found plenty.

PLEITGEN: But in Ukraine, Giuliani is relying on some dubious and controversial figures.

Giuliani is meeting with two lawmakers, Aleksandr Dubinskiy and Andrii Derkach, who have been spreading unsubstantiated corruption allegations about former Vice President Joe Biden.

Of course, it was President Trump who pushed Ukrainian leader Zelensky to investigate Biden and his son, Hunter, who was on the board of Ukrainian gas company Burisma on a phone call that's now at the heart of the impeachment proceedings.

TRUMP: I believe there was tremendous corruption with Biden.

PLEITGEN: That's where two more of Rudy Giuliani's proclaimed witnesses come in, former Ukrainian Prosecutors General Viktor Shokin and Yuri Lutsenko.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take us back to the first time you were appointed --

PLEITGEN: In an interview with a right wing pro-Trump, OAN, Shokin claims he was fired at Biden's behest for investigating Burisma even though there was international consensus that Shokin was ineffective in fighting corruption.

His successor, Yuri Lutsenko, who was also forced to leave office for being ineffective, says he often butted heads with former ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch, who was recalled after a smear campaign against her spearheaded by Giuliani. And in a stunning twist, Giuliani is now acknowledging he wanted Yovanovitch out.

Yovanovitch needed to be removed for many reasons, most critical she was denying visas to Ukrainians who wanted to come to U.S. and explain Dem Corruption in Ukraine, Giuliani tweeted.

Diplomat George Kent, in a closed-door testimony at the State Department, objected to a visa request from Shokin due to his ineffectiveness in fighting corruption. Yovanovitch later corroborated that.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Did Giuliani try to overturn a decision that you participated in to deny Shokin a visa?

MARIE YOVANOVITCH, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Yes, that is what I was told.

SCHIFF: And that denial was based on Mr. Shokin's corruption?

YOVANOVITCH: Yes, that's true.

PLEITGEN: Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.

PLEITGEN: A new movie tells the true story, an unbelievable story of a man who served six years on death row after being wrongly convicted of murder. We'll talk to the man who helped set him free about why he believes America needs to hear this story now.

You're live in the CNN Newsroom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Democrats and Republicans can hardly agree on anything, but one thing they can and did agree on is criminal justice reform. One year ago, almost to the day, President Trump signed the First Step Act with bipartisan support. As a result, more than 3,000 inmates were released from prison.

Critics were quick to point out that the bill only addressed prison reform and not sentencing reform. Six months later, the Justice Department announced that the federal government would resume capital punishment after a near -- nearly two-decade lapse.

A new movie called "Just Mercy" tells the true story of Walter McMillian who is played by Jamie Foxx. McMillian was wrongly convicted of murder. He served six years on death row. He was eventually exonerated with the help of a young lawyer, Bryan Stevenson, played by Michael B. Jordan.

Now, this movie is distributed by Warner Brothers, a sister company of CNN. It will be in theaters starting Christmas Day. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL B. JORDAN, ACTOR: They convicted an innocent man. I was always taught to fight for the people who need the help the most.

JAMIE FOXX, ACTOR: You don't know what it is down here. They ain't got to have no evidence.

JORDAN: How many of you all were with Walter that morning?

FOXX: You ain't quitting this?

JORDAN: No, sir. We are with you.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CABRERA: I sat down with Bryan Stephenson whose book, "Just Mercy: A

True Story of the Fight for Justice," inspired the movie. He is also an executive producer of the film.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: You take people to death row --

BRYAN STEVENSON, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, EQUAL JUSTICE INITIATIVE: Yes.

CABRERA: -- and give us some insight into part of the judicial system most people don't even want to think about.

STEVENSON: Right.

CABRERA: Why tell this story now?

STEVENSON: Well, I continue to worry about what's happened in this country. We have the highest rate of incarceration in the world. We went from a prison population of about 300,000 in 1972 to 2.2 million today.

We have 6 million people on probation and parole in this country. There's 70 million Americans with criminal arrest histories, which means that when they try to get jobs or try to get loans, they're disfavored by that arrest history.

We have a criminal justice system that treats you better if you're rich and guilty than if you're poor and innocent. And that's not fair. That's not right.

You know, the death penalty is, in many ways, ground zero of a lot of the excess that has characterized how we have managed criminal justice over the last half -- half-century. For every nine people we've executed in this country, we've now identified one innocent person who's been exonerated.

CABRERA: In fact, the work that you've been doing at the Equal Justice Initiative in the past 30 years --

STEVENSON: Yes.

CABRERA: -- I mean, you have been able to get the release, the relief, or the reversal of more than 140 people who have been either wrongly convicted or unfairly sentenced to death.

[18:35:00]

STEVENSON: Yes.

CABRERA: I mean, that is incredible when you think about those numbers --

STEVENSON: Yes.

CABRERA: -- and the amount of work each case takes.

STEVENSON: Yes.

CABRERA: What really struck me about the movie and the one story you really focus in on, Walter McMillian, you know, as somebody who is learning his story as the facts are revealed, it's so obvious --

STEVENSON: Yes.

CABRERA: -- that he was wrongly convicted. And yet even as those facts are put out there, the truth almost didn't set him free.

STEVENSON: That's right, that's right.

CABRERA: How do you explain that?

STEVENSON: You know, I think we have allowed ourselves to be governed by fear and anger. And when you have people pushing these narratives of fear and anger, people will begin to tolerate things they shouldn't tolerate. They'll accept things they shouldn't accept.

I actually think that fear and anger are the essential ingredients of injustice and oppression. You know, in the '70s and '80s, we said that people who are drug-addicted and drug dependent are criminals, and we're going to use the criminal justice system to respond to that population.

We could have said that people with addiction and dependency problems have a health care need, and we need our health care system to respond. But revved up by all of that fear and anger and demonizing, it became impossible to talk strategically.

Everybody wanted to be tough on crime.

CABRERA: Right.

STEVENSON: Everybody wanted to put people in prison and lock -- lock them up forever. And in that sort of environment, innocent people are going to be wrongly convicted.

CABRERA: Is there any evidence that the death penalty serves as a crime deterrent?

STEVENSON: No, no. If anything, we tend to see increases in violent crime in some of the places that are most actively implementing the death penalty. I think for a lot of people, you know, if the state can kill, if the government can kill, it doesn't help advance the point that no one should kill.

There's a kind of illogic to the death penalty, in my view. You know, we say, we're going to -- we're going to teach people that killing is wrong by killing someone. Most people who are in crisis, the mentally ill, the people who are in the margins of society, aren't going to be deterred by the threat of violence or death through violence.

CABRERA: So do you think there is any circumstance in which the death penalty is warranted?

STEVENSON: No. I don't think that -- as I said, for me, the death penalty is about, do we deserve to kill? I think, you know, if you -- if you focus the question on, does someone deserve to die, you can come up with those scenarios.

But if you turn the question to, do we deserve to kill, we don't have a perfect system. And the death penalty requires a perfect system because if you make a mistake, you don't have the ability to recover from that.

CABRERA: As you know, the Supreme Court just halted --

STEVENSON: Yes.

CABRERA: -- the Trump administration's --

STEVENSON: Yes.

CABRERA: -- effort to resume --

STEVENSON: Yes.

CABRERA: -- executions in federal death penalty --

STEVENSON: Yes, yes.

CABRERA: -- cases after a 16-year hiatus.

STEVENSON: Yes, yes.

CABRERA: What's your reaction?

STEVENSON: Well, I think that's -- I think that's the right response. Whenever you try to use the death penalty for some political goal, you're going to do things that are unjust.

CABRERA: How do you square, you know, the Trump administration's advocacy of the death penalty with, on the other hand, the criminal justice reform like the First Step Act we saw passed last year or the pardoning or commuting of sentences like that of Alice Marie Johnson?

STEVENSON: Yes. Well, I think it's progress that we've gotten to the point where you have people in both political parties that recognize that reform of the criminal justice system is needed. It doesn't mean that people don't also say things that are echoes of this whole era of fear and anger.

But it's really important to remember that leadership on these issues is not going to come from Washington. You know, our criminal justice system is a state-based system.

Ninety percent of the people in our jails and prisons are there based on state convictions. Less than 10 percent of the prison population in this country is there as a result of a federal conviction. So the President and even the Congress, no matter what kind of reforms

they implement, will only have a small impact of what's happening nationwide.

CABRERA: Your work has taken on another new direction or another layer, I should say --

STEVENSON: Yes.

CABRERA: -- as you continue to explore the history of racial inequality and economic injustice with your Legacy Museum --

STEVENSON: Yes.

CABRERA: -- from enslavement to mass incarceration in Alabama. What do you hope it accomplishes?

STEVENSON: Well, I hope we can create an era of truth and justice in this country. We are still burdened by the legacy of slavery because the worst thing that happened during that period wasn't the involuntary servitude and the forced labor. We can end that.

But the worst thing was this myth we created that Black people aren't as good as White people, that Black people aren't fully human, that Black people are dangerous. And this -- and that created this ideology of White supremacy --

CABRERA: Yes.

STEVENSON: -- this racial hierarchy. That's why people are pulled out of their homes. You can be talented, you can be gifted, you can be an athlete, you can be an educator, you can be a doctor, you can be a lawyer --

CABRERA: Yes.

STEVENSON: -- but you still have to navigate these presumptions of dangerousness and guilt. And that's why I believed it was time to get out of the court and start talking about, you know, these larger issues.

[18:40:08]

I'm just seeing what's happened in other parts of the world where there's been the willingness to talk. You go to Rwanda. Rwandans insist on telling you about the genocide. I go to Berlin. You can't go 20 meters in Berlin --

CABRERA: Right, I was thinking about that, with the Holocaust.

STEVENSON: Yes, with the Holocaust. You see the symbols and the stones everywhere where -- that marked the places where Jewish families were abducted. The Germans want you to go to the Holocaust Memorial. There are no Adolf Hitler statues in Germany. They don't want to be thought of as Nazis and fascists. But in this country, we haven't talked about slavery. We haven't

marked the places where lynchings took place. We haven't talked about this legacy.

And I think that has to change. And that was the motivation, you know, for creating the Legacy Museum and the National Memorial, which is dedicated to thousands of victims of lynching.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: My thanks to Bryan Stevenson for that conversation. The movie really is moving. You should go see it.

The House impeachment was only the third time a president has been charged with high crimes and misdemeanors, but history doesn't always repeat itself. We'll show you what could happen next, live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[17:45:13]

CABRERA: Now that President Trump is impeached in the House, the Senate will eventually hold a trial to determine if he should be removed from office. But before that happens, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has to send over the articles of impeachment, which she says she won't do until a clear and fair path forward is presented.

So how does impeachment work in the Senate? CNN's Victor Blackwell explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: House Democrats and White House officials are spending the holidays prepping for the President's Senate trial. Here's how it will all work.

The rules were written for Andrew Johnson's trial in 1868. Everything is minutely choreographed. The sergeant-at-arms kicks things off, and you'll be seeing a lot of him.

JAMES ZIGLAR, SERGEANT-AT-ARMS, IMPEACHMENT TRIAL AGAINST PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye. All persons are commanded to keep silent, on pain of imprisonment, while the Senate of the United States is sitting for the trial of the articles of impeachment exhibited by the House of Representatives.

BLACKWELL: And then senators take an oath of impartial justice in weighing the arguments presented in the trial.

SEN. STROM THURMOND (R-SC), PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE OF THE SENATE: Do you solemnly swear that in all things appertaining to the trial of the impeachment of William Jefferson Clinton, President of the United States, now pending, you will do impartial justice according to the constitution and laws, so help you, God?

CHIEF JUSTICE WILLIAM REHNQUIST, SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES: I do.

BLACKWELL: At least two Republicans, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina have already declared that they are not impartial jurors.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I'm not trying to pretend to be a fair jury here.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER OF THE SENATE: I'm not an impartial juror.

BLACKWELL: Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts presides. Now, he's got the power to compel the Senate to vote, and he has the power to decide things like the rules of evidence, but he can be overruled. If a senator disagrees with him, he or she can ask for the full body to vote.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (via telephone): I want the whistleblower who put in a false report to testify.

BLACKWELL: Yes, you know by now that President Trump has talked about calling witnesses like Hunter Biden, Adam Schiff, the whistleblower, but he'll need 51 senators to agree.

The witnesses cannot just be called at will by the prosecution or defense. And if a senator wants to question a witness, they have to put that in writing and give it to Chief Justice Roberts, so don't expect much of the showboating we've seen so far.

Then we get to the vote. It takes 34 senators to acquit. There are 54 Republicans, so let's do the math. That means that 20 of them would have to side with the Democrats and two independents, assuming that all of those members will vote to remove him from office.

Now, all 100 senators then stand at their seats to cast their decision as either guilty or not guilty. That sounds easy enough, but it isn't always so cut and dried.

Senator Arlen Specter confused clerks in the final moments of the Clinton impeachment by saying not proved therefore not guilty. He decided to borrow a line from Scottish law, and he was making the point that he didn't necessarily think Clinton was innocent, just that it had not been proved. But it didn't make much of a difference. His vote was still counted in the not guilty column.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Victor Blackwell, thank you. A lot of people are talking about Eddie Murphy's return to "Saturday Night Live." A look at how the past met the present and whether the humor held up after 35 years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDDIE MURPHY, ACTOR: Who's directing this picture? Me! Who wrote this picture? Me. This is the Gumby Story, damn it, and Gumby does not say damn it. How the hell are people not going to know who I am? I'm Gumby, damn

it!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:48:46]

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CABRERA: We've been following a chaotic scene all day. Virginia State Police say 51 people were injured in a massive chain reaction accident in eastern Virginia. They're also reporting 69 vehicles were involved in this crash on Interstate 64 outside of Richmond because of foggy, icy conditions that happened early this morning.

Amazingly, thankfully, no deaths have been reported. That huge accident scene forced authorities to close both sides of the interstate for several hours. The eastbound lanes were just reopened a short time ago.

If you're a candidate and don't boast about taking selfies with supporters, then you are really -- are you really running for president? Selfies are the new political currency for the 2020 campaigns, connecting with voters, building free exposure. Here's CNN's Dana Bash.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I love that you have a tattoo. Let's do a selfie.

(APPLAUSE)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a critical stop on Senator Elizabeth Warren's campaign trail, her selfie line. Hundreds of thousands of informal photos with her supporters.

WARREN: And then we get to the most important part of democracy, and that is selfies.

I'm proud handling a hundred thousand selfies.

BASH (voice-over): Her selfie status update on the debate stage this week was enough to get the attention of a top opponent.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You're not the only one who does selfies, Senator. I've done thousands of them.

BASH (voice-over): Candidate selfies are the new campaign currency, more memorable than an autograph and a key way for candidates to connect with voters who then build buzz on social media. And it's not just Democrats.

TRUMP: Some woman said, I've been here, Mr. Trump, in the rain for four hours, could I have a selfie? And my people said, no, no, no. I said, absolutely, you can, absolutely. (APPLAUSE)

BASH (voice-over): One sticking point is over the word selfie itself.

An apparent parody Twitter account of former Senator Orrin Hatch points out a selfie is when you're holding the camera as well as posing for the picture, writing, there is an entire industry of fact- checkers who are letting Elizabeth Warren get away with calling these selfies, and I won't stand for it.

Classic selfie or not, these snaps are here to stay.

WARREN: I'm going to keep doing town halls like this and selfie lines like this.

BASH (voice-over): Dana Bash, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: You've got to have long arms to do a good selfie. Thank goodness my husband has those long arms. He's the selfie master in our house.

OK, it was a revival 35 years in the making. Last night, Eddie Murphy made his much-anticipated return to "Saturday Night Live" for the first time since he left the show in 1984.

In a rarity for "SNL," Murphy appeared in every single sketch apart from the cold open, and he even reprised some of his most iconic roles. Here's a recap.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MURPHY: Hi, boys and girls! It's your old pal, Mr. Robinson. So much has changed since we last spent some time together. My neighborhood has gone through so much. It's gone through something called gentrification.

[18:55:06]

(LAUGHTER)

MURPHY: Can you say gentrification, boys and girls? It's like a magic trick. White people pay a lot of money and then, poof, all the Black people are gone.

Hi, I'm Buckwheat.

(APPLAUSE)

MURPHY: Remember me?

Like a fool I went and stayed too long.

(LAUGHTER)

MURPHY: Now, I'm wondering if your love's still strong. Oh, baby, here I am. Signed, sealed, delivered, I'm yours!

I'm Gumby, damn it. I -- let me tell you something. I saved this damn show from the gutter.

MICHAEL CHE, ACTOR: What about your horse, Pokey (ph)?

MURPHY: You have the nerve to sit there and bring up the name of Pokey (ph)?

(LAUGHTER)

MURPHY: He's in the bull factory for all I care.

(LAUGHTER)

MURPHY: I -- I don't believe this. I make my triumphant return, and you're talking about a can of dog food?

(LAUGHTER)

MURPHY: How'd you even get this job? What'd you win, a radio contest or something?

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: I can't even help but laugh. If you're looking for laughs on New Year's Eve, join two best friends for one epic night. Ring in the New Year with Anderson Cooper and Andy Cohen. "NEW YEAR'S EVE LIVE" begins at 8:00 p.m. only on CNN.

Not all the Democratic candidates actually running for president qualified for the last debate. Coming up, we'll ask one of those candidates, Senator Cory Booker, how he plans to get back in the conversation. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[19:00:08]

CABRERA: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM --