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Rep. Adriano Espaillat (D-NY) is Interviewed about Impeachment; Saudi Arabia Sentences Five in Khashoggi Killing; TSA Whistleblower on Security; Shootings Across Three States. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired December 23, 2019 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

RYAN NOBLES, CNN ANCHOR: So with me now to discuss that, one of the Democrats who did vote in favor of impeachment, Congressman Adriano Espaillat.

Thank you for being here, Congressman. We appreciate it so much.

REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT (D-NY): Thank you so much.

NOBLES: Let's talk first -- let's talk first about Speaker Pelosi's decision here to hold off on releasing the articles of impeachment in order to guarantee a fair trial.

Do you think that is a smart, strategical move by this -- by the speaker at this point?

ESPAILLAT: I don't think it's just strategic, I think it's fair. We -- we should have an expedition and fair trial, which will be presided by Justice Roberts, not by Mitch McConnell. And we were very deliberate in the House of Representatives. We had a process where the Intelligence Oversight and Foreign Affairs Committee deposed close to 20 witnesses. The white House dodged a bunch of subpoenas. We had an open process with the Intelligence Committee. And then we had a process where the Judiciary drafted articles of impeachment. We had a real, deliberate and fair process.

And now Mitch McConnell, before he even looks at the -- the evidence, before he -- he even looks at -- hears from witness, is saying that this is a done deal, that he's coordinated this with the White House.

What I -- I submit to him, that he is not the judge in this process. It is Justice Roberts who will preside over this process. And I think that our leader, Nancy Pelosi, has every right to say, we won't go into that lion's den unless it's a fair and equitable and transparent process. I think that we should that. The American people deserve that. And we should have a fair discussion among both party leaders to make sure that happens.

NOBLES: Well, in your mind, Congressman, then, what would be a fair trial and how long are you willing to support Speaker Pelosi's decision to hold off on this? I mean could it extend into the spring? Do you want it to the end of January? What is the timeline for you? How patient can you be?

ESPAILLAT: Well, I don't want to -- I don't want to submit myself, nor the American people, to a timeframe. What I will tell you is that there are other witnesses that we should hear from. We just heard how Duffey, who works for the White House Office of Budgeting, just recently we got access to some e-mail, what he says that in about two hours after the president had his call with Zelensky, he was -- they were already being instructed to hold the money from the Ukraine. So there's -- you know, there's Bolton, there's Mulvaney, there's a bunch of folks that have real important evidence to bring to the table and the American people deserve to know.

And before that even happens, Mitch McConnell, Moscow Mitch, is now saying that the president is done, that we don't even need to sort of like have that discussion.

Well, guess what, the Constitution says that it is Justice Roberts that presides over this process and it is not Mitch McConnell. And, in many ways, Mitch McConnell and the Republican senators would also be on trial in this process.

NOBLES: All right, so let's talk a little bit more about what you were just talking about there.

We've learned now that just 90 minutes after President Trump's phone call with President Zelensky, a White House official e-mailed the OMB and the Pentagon and asked for that hold on military aid. I think you've kind of already alluded to this, but I kind of want to press you on this. Do you think that this is part of Speaker Pelosi's strategy here, that the longer they wait, that more incriminating information will come out and that that could play a role in this Senate trial?

ESPAILLAT: No, I think that the White House sabotaged or attempted to sabotage the House of Representatives' process by instructing many of the witnesses not to appear before Congress. They dodged subpoenas. They did everything they could to try to invalidate, if not sabotage, this very important process.

And as you saw happen with Duffey, as we move forward, more and more evidence -- I certainly want to hear from Bolton. I think the senators from both sides of the aisle deserve to hear from Bolton and Mulvaney, who very clearly said that what the president did happens all the time.

And so here we have the head of the Republican Party in the Senate saying that this is all done, that he's coordinated with the White House, even before he's heard from new witnesses or examined the evidence, that this is really a kangaroo trial.

NOBLES: Right.

ESPAILLAT: Well, guess what, I don't think that it is. This is about the Constitution of the United States. And everybody should be held to that standard. NOBLES: Well, I just want to quickly, before you go, when you open the

door to witnesses being brought in, the Republicans are going to want to call witnesses as well. Are you concerned at all that that could lead to former Vice President Joe Biden, and his, son Hunter Biden, being called, because there are many Republican senators that would like to see that happen. You know, where do you draw the line on what's fair and what -- and when it becomes a kangaroo court, as you described?

ESPAILLAT: Well, you know, I could also say that we want to hear from the president. I mean there -- there needs to be a good discussion between Chuck Schumer and McConnell. McConnell cannot get ahead of the line and say that this process is over and done with. That is not the case. We are just beginning.

The American people deserve to hear more. Every day we hear more and more -- more and more evidence. And I think that American people, at the end of the day, want to make their own decisions whether or not the president engaged in obstruction of Congress and abuse of power.

[09:35:05]

NOBLES: All right, Congressman Adriano Espaillat, thank you so much for being here.

ESPAILLAT: Thank you so much.

NOBLES: Very happy holiday with you and your family. Thank you so much for being here.

ESPAILLAT: You too. Merry Christmas to all the Americans.

NOBLES: All right, great, thank you, Congressman.

New developments today in the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Saudi Arabia now says five people will be put to death. We'll discuss that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOBLES: And new this morning, Saudi Arabia sentences five people to death for the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. "The Washington Post" columnist was allegedly killed and dismembered inside the Saudi consulate in Turkey last year. Three other people were sentenced to 24 years in jail for their role in the killing. Saudi officials released several others due to a lack of evidence. That includes three people who are known to have very close ties to the Saudi crown prince.

Joining me now to discuss this, our global affairs analyst David Rohde. He's the executive editor of "The New Yorker" website.

[09:40:03]

So, David, are you surprised by this sentence and do you think justice has been served? DAVID ROHDE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I'm sort of incredibly

disappointed. I think this is a complete whitewash. The officials you mentioned, the senior officials, are very close to the Saudi crown prince and essentially we don't even know the names of the five people who have been sentenced to death. The claim from the Saudis is this was a spur of the moment killing is absurd. I hate to say this, but this has been reported before, you know, the killers brought a saw with them that they used to dismember Khashoggi's body. You don't bring a saw, you know, to a Saudi embassy by accident. So this is an incredibly disappointing verdict and I think it calls into question the Trump administration's policy towards Saudi Arabia.

NOBLES: And what was interesting about this, too, was that Khashoggi's family and other western diplomats were actually there at the trial. I mean what's the significance of having them in the room? Is this part of the whitewashing from your perspective to make it seem as though it was a legitimate verdict?

ROHDE: I absolutely think so. I mean they were barred from naming the defendants. Again, the crown prince himself, the CIA found, as you mentioned, is responsible for this killing. So, you know, frankly these could be five more innocent people that are being killed by, you know, Crown Prince Bin Salman. He seems simply emboldened not, you know, humbled by this killing. And this doesn't meet any standards. There needs to be a full investigation of the murder of this journalist.

NOBLES: Well, David, while we have you here, we want to talk about another pretty significant international issue now, and that's North Korea.

CNN has obtained new satellite images taken out of North Korea. They show the expansion of facilities associated with the building of missile launchers. I remember just a few weeks ago, North Korea told the U.S. to prepare for a so-called Christmas gift.

Sources telling CNN, though, that this veiled threat of a test launch over Christmas is still unlikely to happen.

David, I'd love your take on this. Is Kim Jong-un taking a wait-and- see approach in dealing with President Trump at this point?

NOBLES: I -- so far Kim Jong-un has sort of gotten the best of the negotiations with President Trump. I gave President Trump credit for having the summits and trying to have a breakthrough, but that clearly hasn't worked. So we'll see what happens but, you know, the policy towards North Korea isn't working. There could be a test now or in the future. But Kim Jong-un is doing what he wants at this point.

NOBLES: And former National Security Adviser John Bolton, he gave a blistering interview to "Axios" today, slamming President Trump for bluffing on the North Korean nukes. He said, quote, the idea that we are somehow exerting maximum pressure on North Korea is just unfortunately not true. Time is on the side of the proliferator. You know, of course we knew when John Bolton took that job as national

security adviser, that he had kind of a different approach to North Korea than what President Trump had at the time. Are you surprised that he's been so vocal in his disagreements with President Trump on this issue?

ROHDE: Yes, it's very unusual and, you know, Ambassador Bolton has a very different approach to President Trump on this. He wants that maximum economic pressure.

And I'd say more broadly, whether you're looking at North Korea or Saudi Arabia, President Trump's embrace of these authoritarian leaders hasn't worked. It hasn't caused them to kind of change their ways. There's still time for him to change that approach. You know, he's still looking for foreign policy successes into 2020. So maybe he will take a tougher approach on North Korea and Saudi Arabia. But Ambassador Bolton is right, you know, there hasn't been a tough enough approach on North Korea and time is on the side of North Korea.

NOBLES: All right, David Rohde, thank you for your expertise. We appreciate you being on.

ROHDE: Thank you.

NOBLES: And as millions of flyers pack the nation's airports this weekend -- this holiday week, I should say, a TSA security director says American airports are becoming unsafe just so you can get through the security line a bit faster.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:48:19]

NOBLES: As millions of Americans rush home for the holidays, a TSA whistleblower is sounding an alarm. He says the agency is placing speed over safety at airports across the U.S. and putting passengers at risk.

CNN's Rene Marsh has the CNN exclusive.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT (voice over): More than 40 million U.S. airline passengers are expected to go through airport security checkpoints this holiday. But this TSA security director says you may not be as safe as you think.

JAY BRAINARD, TSA FEDERAL SECURITY DIRECTOR: What they're doing is injecting danger into the system.

MARSH: Jay Brainard is the top TSA official in his state and has been with the agency for 17 years. He says TSA is cutting corners on the screening process to shorten wait times.

One example, TSA reduced the sensitivity on all walk-through metal detectors at airports across America. BRAINARD: They are reducing the concentration of metal that it would

take to set off that alarm so that you can speed up lines and have fewer pat-downs.

MARSH (on camera): How do you know that's why they did it?

BRAINARD: Because there's a memo out that supports it.

MARSH (voice over): This TSA memo shows the order came in 2013, quote, changing all walk-through metal detector settings in all lanes to the TSA pre-check setting, to normalize the passenger experience.

Brainard says the practice continues today and he worries bomb-making components could go undetected.

BRAINARD: You could have a 30-minute wait time and they treat it like it's a national emergency. It is such an unhealthy obsession of placing speed over security.

MARSH: Brainard says that obsession also led the TSA to disable technology on x-ray machines that screen carry-on bags in pre-check lanes. This internal memo states, as of last month, those x-ray machines should be operated without the auto-detection algorithm enabled.

[09:50:07]

BRAINARD: Put simply, when the -- when the item comes through, a box will come around and surround the item. It says, hey, stop and take a look at this. That box is no longer on the screen. TSA has made changes to the settings, which really hamper the ability of the x-ray operator to detect explosives in carry-on baggage.

MARSH (on camera): But TSA will say this is pre-check.

BRAINARD: They have been putting millions of passengers into TSA pre- check who aren't pre-check. So you do not have an entire population in pre-check that are vetted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning, everybody.

MARSH (voice over): CNN put this to TSA Administrator David Pekoske. He said the agency is not prioritizing wait times over security.

DAVID PEKOSKE, TSA ADMINISTRATOR: No, I won't discuss any of our particular security procedures, because that's really not appropriate for me to do. But rest assured that we do provide the level of security that we think is appropriate based on the risk of a passenger.

MARSH: Brainard says the issues he's raised are especially problematic for an agency with a 95 percent failure rate in detecting dangerous items at the checkpoint. That's according to a government audit in 2015. Another audit two years later found there were still vulnerabilities.

BRAINARD: When you sit back and you watch these things happen, it is the most frustrating thing you can imagine.

MARSH: Going public is his last resort. He's filed an official whistleblower complaint with the Office of Special Counsel. He sent complaints to DHS, TSA, and sent letters to Congress. Not just about the metal detectors, but also the x-ray machines. A policy change allowing some passengers with medical devices to do a self-pat-down and a new policy called blended lanes, where pre-check and standard passengers are mixed in one line, something that could confuse screeners.

BRAINARD: They now have to mentally switch themselves on and off about what's permitted, what's not permitted, with every other passenger. You know, the last time I checked, our detection rates were not stellar. And it doesn't make any sense to introduce this kind of variable.

MARSH: Last year the special council ordered DHS to investigate Brainard's complaints, writing, there is a substantial likelihood that the information provided to OSC discloses gross mismanagement and specific danger to public safety.

BRAINARD: My biggest fear is having something happen that costs American lives and I didn't step up and put a stop to it, or at least try, because it's going to happen. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. We are long overdue for another attack.

MARSH: TSA did take action on one of Brainard's complaints. He says they continued to use an ineffective test to determine if new hires were color blind, a disqualifying medical condition, even after concerns about the tests' effectiveness were raised.

BRAINARD: If you had something in a bag and if somebody were color blind, they wouldn't see the bomb if it were the only thing in the bag.

MARSH: TSA is now using a new test for new hires. But according to this TSA memo, the agency will not finish retesting the existing workforce until the end of next year. Brainard knows, despite whistleblower protections and consistent top ratings on his TSA performance evaluations, speaking out could cost him his job.

BRAINARD: And I fully expect that the first discussion that they're going to have is how they can fire me.

MARSH: But he believes these issues are too urgent to keep quiet.

MARSH (on camera): To be clear, no changes have been made to the body scanners that travelers go through.

Now, CNN reached out to both agencies investigating Brainard's complaints, but no comment from either. Brainard has secured a whistleblower attorney. In response to the complaints raised in our story, the head of TSA told me that whistleblowers, and I'm quoting, provide a very valuable service and it's our responsibility to fully investigate those concerns to see if they represent a valid security risk or not. But the TSA says they have not completed their assessment.

Rene Marsh, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES: Rene, thank you.

This morning, police in three American cities are searching for suspects after a rash of gun violence kills one person and injures dozens of others.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:58:36]

NOBLES: Police in three U.S. cities are dealing with an eruption of gun violence just days before Christmas. In the Minneapolis suburb of Spring Lake Park, one person was killed, and seven were shot while standing outside a restaurant. This combined with shootings in Chicago and Baltimore left more than two dozen people in the hospital this weekend.

CNN's Omar Jimenez is live in Chicago with more on this.

Omar, thirteen people injured just in Chicago this weekend.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Ryan. And it's not just 13 people shot, it's 13 people shot at a party that was literally commemorating a person who was shot and killed in Chicago earlier this year.

Now, police believe this started with a fight in the party and that shots were being fired from three different locations. One from inside, and then as people were fleeing this party because of probably those shots, police believe there were two other shooters firing again as people were leaving. The ages range from people shot from 16 to 48. Thankfully, no one was killed here, but four people in critical condition.

And when you look within a wider context of Chicago, this is actually a year where we've seen double-digit declines in violent crime. And they're set to do so for a third consecutive year. And this is something that cities across the country have dealt with.

In Baltimore, seven people were shot as they waited out of a hookah lounge over the weekend.

[10:00:01]

And 19 shots were fired in total in that situation. And then you mentioned the shooting that happened about 12 miles north of Minneapolis in --