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Amy Klobuchar Hoping to Surge; Saudi Arabia Sentences Five to Death in Khashoggi Murder; Impeachment Stalemate. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 23, 2019 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:11]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: It is the top of the hour, and you are watching CNN.

Hi, everyone. I'm Jessica Dean, in for Brooke Baldwin today.

The stalemate over President Trump's impeachment trial and whether witnesses should be called may have gotten a little more complicated for Senate Republicans.

The reason? Newly released e-mails from a top White House budget official to the Pentagon directing the Defense Department to freeze military aid to Ukraine. Now, these e-mails were sent just 90 minutes after President Trump wrapped up that call with Ukraine President Zelensky asking those involved to keep that request limited to a small circle of people.

The revelation giving new fuel to the Democrats' fight to have several of Trump's current and former key aides, including Mike Duffey, the budget official at the center of that request, testify during a session trial.

This morning, Senator Mitch McConnell, who said negotiations are at an impasse, said this about the Democrats' witness wish list.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): All I'm asking of Schumer is that we treat Trump the same way we treated Clinton. We had a procedure that was approved 100-0 -- Schumer voted for it -- to go through the opening arguments, to have a written question period, and then, based upon that, deciding what witnesses to call.

We haven't ruled out witnesses. We have said, let's handle this case just like we did with President Clinton. Fair is fair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: CNN White House correspondent Boris Sanchez is in West Palm Beach with the president.

And, Boris, what is the White House saying following the release of these redacted e-mails? BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jessica, the

White House is effectively downplaying the details in these e-mails.

A spokesperson for the Budget Office effectively saying that the suggestion that there's any inappropriate behavior by the president or any improper behavior by the president in these e-mails is misleading.

They're making the case that the decision to withhold aid from Ukraine was actually made well before President Trump's call with President Zelensky of Ukraine, despite the fact that, as you pointed out, the first official note, the first official e-mail notifying the Pentagon of an aid freeze came about 90 minutes after this phone call.

Democrats now are seeking testimony from the author of many of those e-mails, Mike Duffey. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer making the case that Duffey has a story to tell. He's pressing for testimony from Duffey and other White House officials.

Whether that actually happens is an open question at this point. You're right. We're in a holding pattern when it comes to impeachment. The House speaker not passing along those articles of impeachment to the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell.

He has argued that that's totally fine with him, and that there doesn't need to be a trial. Of course, President Trump is contradicting him especially aggressively on Twitter, demanding a trial.

Today, he was active on Twitter before heading over to his golf club in Palm Beach, bashing House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, arguing that impeachment is unfair, and that Pelosi may lose the House for Democrats in 2020 -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right, Boris Sanchez in West Palm Beach with President Trump, thanks so much.

Now that the House has voted to impeach President Trump, the Justice Department is making a case in a federal court filing that former White House counsel Don McGahn's testimony is no longer necessary.

The House Judiciary Committee said it needed McGahn's testimony as part of the impeachment inquiry related to President Trump and obstruction of justice.

Evan Perez is CNN's senior justice correspondent.

And, Evan, explain what's an issue here and where the case goes now.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the issue here is that the White House and President Trump says that he can give absolute immunity to anyone, one of his aides, close aides, at the White House.

And he says that the House cannot subpoena those people to provide testimony, which is what the House has been doing for several months. They have been fighting to bring Don McGahn, the former White House counsel, in to talk about the president and the issue of obstruction of justice.

If you remember, it was a big issue in the Mueller investigation, and McGahn was one of the key witnesses on that question.

So the courts so far have ruled that the president cannot do that. He cannot just give absolute immunity to his aides. They at least have to answer the subpoena, have to show up. And they can -- obviously, there's still a question of what exactly they're going to be able to testify to.

But, so far, the courts have not been willing to just let this stand. And the Justice Department is saying, look, the courts should stay out of this. This is a fight between Congress and the White House.

I will read just a little part of what the Justice Department filing mentions. It says -- quote -- "If this court now were to resolve the merits question in this case, it would appear to be weighing in on a contested issue in any impeachment trial. That would be a question propriety, whether or not such a judicial resolution proceeded or postdated any impeachment trial."

[15:05:07]

Of course, Jessica, the question here now is for the -- for the House is, they voted to impeach the president. We're waiting on whether or not there's a trial.

And so DOJ says, courts, stay out.

DEAN: All right, Evan Perez for us, thanks so much for that update.

PEREZ: Sure.

DEAN: I want to break down some of this now with Dana Bash, CNN's chief political correspondent, and also Paul Callan, a CNN legal analyst.

Welcome, everyone. Great to have you here.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Jessica. You too.

DEAN: Hi.

Paul, I want to start with you. The Trump administration says there's no urgency in the McGahn case, for a couple of reasons, one, that the House went ahead and voted to impeach without hearing from him on obstruction, and, two, that the obstruction article of impeachment is focused on Ukraine and not Russia.

Others say it points to a pattern of bad behavior by President Trump. What do you make of all this? How do you see it?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think the courts will be eager sort of to avoid making a decision on this, because impeachment has already been voted. The articles have been voted. Now, Nancy Pelosi may be holding them back. But they have been voted. So that's over. Now, he was being subpoenaed in connection with that proceeding. So, in law, there's a doctrine called mootness, when the thing and controversy has been rendered irrelevant.

DEAN: Moot, yes, right.

CALLAN: It's moot. All right?

So I think the -- giving impeachment articles is moot. And I doubt that the courts going to order that subpoena be honored.

DEAN: Right. It'll be interesting to see what they do.

Dana, talking about this impeachment stalemate, here's what the top players in the Senate, Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell, have said about it. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Do you have any plans to meet with Senator McConnell this week?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): I met with him on Thursday. We had a cordial conversation. I said we need witnesses and documents. It's only fair. It's only right. He said no. I said please think about it over these holidays.

Let's hope he is.

MCCONNELL: We will find out when we come back in session where we are.

As I have said repeatedly, we can't take up a matter we don't have, and so hopefully it will be on the way over at some point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Well, there you hear it. McConnell says things at an impasse, Dems not budging on releasing these articles of impeachment. Clear as mud, right, Dana?

(LAUGHTER)

DEAN: Behind the scenes over the next few weeks, though, what do you think's going to happen? Could there be some movement as people go on their holiday break?

BASH: There could be.

Look, what the Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer, clearly wanted to do -- and I was talking to some Democrats who are familiar with this -- is, in sending the letter that he sent now over a week ago saying that a fair trial, in his view or from the point of view of Democrats, is promising to have four witnesses, so on and so forth, is to fight the good fight. The reality is the reality when it comes to just the raw numbers in

the Senate, meaning, first of all, the Republicans control the Senate. Second of all, to actually convict the president, you need about 20 Republicans to cross party lines, and that that's not going to happen.

But the Democratic minority leader, Chuck Schumer, wanted to say what he was going to do, or at least signal to the base that they weren't just rolling over. The problem is that with that comes that line in the sand. After that must come some kind of compromise if the Democrats really do want this trial to start, because, as Mitch McConnell has said, if the House never sends him the articles of impeachment, oh, well, no skin off his back. He will just go on and confirm more Trump judges.

So that is why the Democrats are likely, if you talk to them privately, to move more towards Mitch McConnell and what he wants to do, which is a basic -- basic parameters for the trial and then move forward and figure out if there are witnesses during the trial.

DEAN: And to what point do these new e-mails on Ukraine change the contours of the Senate trial? Do they ramp up pressure on Republicans to call witnesses, do you think?

BASH: I mean, they could. They absolutely could, because, look, as you said, this e-mail coming from this figure who works for the Department of Management and Budget, the people who deal with these purse strings, said it was like 90-something minutes right after the president hung up the call.

So if you really want to get to the bottom of this and get to the facts, you need to talk to him and say, why did that happen? Who told you to make that change and withhold the aid? Did it come from the president? Who did it come from?

The Republicans' arguments so far has been very clear that was the House's job. The House Democrats were supposed to be the fact-finders and the investigators. They declined to take these witnesses who are still going to court because the Democrats said it would take too long.

And the Republicans senators, for the most part, are saying, not our job.

[15:10:05]

The issue though, Jessica, is that there are some moderate Democrats, a good number of them -- or at least maybe not moderate, but those who are up for reelection this coming year, who need to be able to go home to their independent voters and even some Democrats who vote for them and say, I did my best to get a fulsome trial.

DEAN: A fair -- right, that we got all the facts.

BASH: Yes.

DEAN: Yes. Yes. Paul, what do you make of Nancy Pelosi's strategy of holding this

investigation? And is there an advantage an advantage to that?

CALLAN: Well, I think she's grasping here, because there's really -- the Republicans hold all the cards in the Senate. The Constitution says that the trial of an impeachment is solely within the discretion of the Senate.

All of the prior impeachments have involved the majority of the Senate at the time determining what the rules would be. And, of course, the Republicans are in the majority now. So the only thing she can do is try to threaten to withhold the documents that are necessary for the trial in order to get a fairer trial.

But I think we're coming to the end of the road on that. And the impeachment articles will have to be formally submitted. Frankly, I think they could be tried even if they weren't formally submitted. They're a matter of public record. We know exactly what was voted.

But we will see how this plays out. And in the end, Mitch McConnell gets to call the shots, just as Pelosi called the shots on the House side. That's because, in the end, this is a political process. It's not a court of law. It's a political process, and it's controlled entirely now by the Republicans.

DEAN: And majority matters when it comes to who's going to be in control of all of that.

CALLAN: That's right, yes.

DEAN: Dana, a lot of criticism from the Democrats about how McConnell and other Trump allies say there will not be any fair jurors in a Senate trial.

But you spoke with Illinois Senator Dick Durbin, who told you he has concerns about a lack of impartiality in his party as well. What did he say?

BASH: Right.

Both sides -- Dick Durbin was there 21 years ago, was a senator during the Clinton trial. And he said his approach then, just as it is now, is to stay impartial and not -- before the trial even starts, say how they are going to vote. And he had some tough words for people in his party, as well as the Republicans.

Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL): I think they have gone too far.

How can they hold their hands up and say, I swear impartial justice, I'd like to sit at the managers' table with the president's team?

You can't do that. They shouldn't have done that. BASH: Well, Democrats have done it too.

DURBIN: And I would say that of Senator McConnell and Senator -- well, they shouldn't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, is that going to stop us senators from continuing to make clear how they're going to vote?

DEAN: Right.

BASH: Maybe not. But it does show that there are some in both parties who are a bit more old-school in their approach to this.

DEAN: Right. Right.

And, Dana, one more thing I want to ask you before we go.

BASH: Yes.

DEAN: The top Republican in the House has been repeating this discredited claim on Twitter and off that the FBI spied on the Trump campaign and calling it a modern-day Watergate.

What are Republicans doing here? This is just not true. What is the endgame with this?

BASH: How much time do we have left?

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Look, Jessica, you know, as well as I do, what the Republicans have been trying to do, which is not talk about the substance of the impeachment in front of them, and instead talk about, in many ways still, even with the inspector general report about what happened with the FBI at the dawn of the of the Russia investigation, say that it was politically motivated.

It was not politically motivated, according to the inspector general. The FBI messed up in a lot of ways, but it wasn't because they had a political axe to grind, according to this independent report.

DEAN: Right.

And just for the record, we have asked Congressman McCarthy to come on the show. He's always welcome. So, if he changes his mind, he's welcome to come on.

Dana Bash, Paul Callan, thanks to both of you.

CALLAN: Thank you.

BASH: Thank you. DEAN: Still to come, new developments in the murder of journalist

Jamal Khashoggi.

Saudi Arabia announces five people will be put to death. Who's being held responsible for the journalist's killing?

Plus, Boeing's CEO fired after months of backlash following two deadly plane crashes. We're going to discuss what it means for that company's future.

And are you one of the millions of people hitting the road this week? There's a lot of you. If so, severe weather could impact your holiday travel plans. And we will have a live report for you just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:30]

DEAN: Jamal Khashoggi's murder outraged the world.

And now Saudi Arabia has ordered five people be put to death for killing "The Washington Post" columnist. But adding to the fury, the kingdom rejected the claim the crown prince was involved in any way.

CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Fourteen months after Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi took these fateful steps into the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul, a verdict in his murder, five sentenced to death for directly participating in his murder, three sentenced to jail for covering up the crime, and three not guilty, among them, Saud al-Qahtani, a close confident of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, and Ahmed al-Assiri, deputy head of Saudi's GIP intelligence agency, also close to MBS.

Despite the verdict, many questions remain. Where is his body? Who killed him and how?

What we do know, a Saudi hit team entered the consulate a few hours ahead of Khashoggi. The hit team included intelligence officer Maher Abdulaziz Mutreb, in charge, forensic Salah Mohammed al-Tubaigy, and more than a dozen others, including Mustafa al-Madani, the body double, who dressed in Khashoggi's clothes, left by the back door laying a false trail.

In reality, Khashoggi had been killed minutes after entering the building. His last words after being attacked, I can't breathe, I can't breathe, before he was dismembered by Dr. Tubaigy's bone saw.

[15:20:13]

His remains were believed to be driven off in black vans shortly after, from the consulate to the nearby consul general's residence. His girlfriend, waiting outside, raised the alarm. Turkish authorities listened to audio recordings from the consulate,

then rushed to the airport, questioning members of the hit team about to leave on private jets, and searching some of their baggage, but found nothing and let them leave.

In the following days, the Saudi government denied killing Khashoggi, the consul general even taking reporters on a hokey tour of the consulate. Eventually, 16 days later, Saudi authorities finally gave Turkish investigators permission to search the consulate and the consul general's house. There was evidence of a cover-up, but no body.

In the coming weeks, local farms were searched, a consulate vehicle recovered from an underground car park, but still no leads. All questions lead back to Saudi, where the hit team fled.

Finally, after more than two-and-a-half weeks, Saudi authorities admitted Khashoggi was killed by Saudi officials.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was killed in the consulate. We don't know in terms of details how. We don't know where the body is.

ROBERTSON: They called it a rendition gone wrong, an accident, saying local collaborators had the body, although they never provided the names or evidence.

The CIA concluded the kingdom's crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, ordered the assassination, something the Saudis flatly deny. Monday's verdict, despite a lack of transparency, appears to further distance the top royal from responsibility.

Nic Robertson, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: Nic, thank you.

Fresh off her breakout Democratic presidential debate appearance, Senator Amy Klobuchar looking to hold onto momentum in critical Iowa. Can she surge to the top spot?

The senator talking to CNN. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:27:01]

DEAN: The first big test for the Democratic presidential candidates, the Iowa caucuses, is now just six weeks away.

And in the push to get voters, Senator Amy Klobuchar is in the midst of a four-day, 27-county swing. Her goal is to visit all 99 Iowa counties before caucus day. That's the 3rd of February.

And she's got momentum in her favor following her breakout debate performance last week. But she's also got some ground to make up. She trails in sixth place in the latest CNN/"Des Moines Register"/Mediacom poll.

Now, Klobuchar tells CNN's Kyung Lah the numbers that matter, everyone who's still undecided right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Midwest is not flyover country to me. I live here.

I hope you saw the debates.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Senator Amy Klobuchar believes now is her upswing, the Minnesota moderate crisscrossing 27 counties in Iowa.

KLOBUCHAR: Hurry up. Get on the bus.

LAH: From rural to suburban venues.

KLOBUCHAR: We have 40-some days left. We have this incredibly important impeachment hearing. I don't know when I can come back.

LAH: As a Senate trial looms and the clock ticks.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you, everybody.

This will be our 79th county.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow.

LAH: Inside the Klobuchar campaign, their come-from-behind strategy is to meet Iowans face-to-face.

KLOBUCHAR: It's one of the counties that...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's one of the Trump counties -- Trump Obama counties.

KLOBUCHAR: ... Obama won and then Trump won.

LAH: And chip away at the more moderate candidates polling higher.

LAH (on camera): When people in those rooms say, why should I, when I have a new person like Pete Buttigieg or someone who's, you know, tested like Joe Biden, why -- why should I consider someone like you?

KLOBUCHAR: I think I'm the right package. I like to joke that 59 is the new 37 to Mayor Pete, that I'm someone that's in between the ages. I am a new generation of leader.

LAH (voice-over): An argument of her Midwest experience, sharpened from the debates to the stump.

KLOBUCHAR: All right, got a little taller. LAH: She's won in Trump districts, urban, suburban, and rural. So

when they heckle...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you going to pay for it?

LAH: ... she'll tangle to convince them.

KLOBUCHAR: A question was raised there from the peanut gallery about how we pay for things. I have actually outlined how I'm going to pay for every single thing that I have proposed.

I don't think that Donald Trump has some kind of monopoly on votes in rural America or in suburban America, not for a second. And you saw a lot of suburban and rural voters that voted for women, they voted for Democrats, including independents and moderate Republicans.

So, the evidence is there that people want a check on this guy.

LAH: The hard part, getting Iowans to decide.

JEFF BUTLER, IOWAN DEMOCRATIC VOTER: I like Pete, and I -- and I like Amy. They've always been my top two.

LAH (on camera): What is going to push you to decide?

BUTLER: I get to meet Amy tonight.

LAH (voice-over): After he's listened to her?

BUTLER: I probably went from 50/50. Now I'm 78 percent for Amy.

LAH: We did find a number of voters pledging to caucus for Klobuchar, including

[15:30:00]