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Trump Sends Holiday Unity message As Senate Trial Looms; No Sign Yet Of North Korea's "Christmas Gift" To U.S.; Another U.S. Ambassador Is Being Pulled From His Post After Standing Up And Speaking Out For Gay Rights. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired December 25, 2019 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: That is it for me. Kate Bolduan continues our coverage on CNN NEWSROOM right now and a very Merry Christmas.

[14:00:11]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan, in for Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for joining us for a special Christmas edition of CNN NEWSROOM.

The date, the time may not be known, but President Trump is still hoping that Mitch McConnell will kick off 2020 with what could be described as a belated Christmas gift, a speedy acquittal in his Senate impeachment trial.

But of course, not so fast, Mr. President, because before Senate Republicans can act, they actually need to get those Articles of Impeachment in hand from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, of course. And she is showing no sign of budging in this moment.

In a letter to House Democrats actually, Pelosi notes this in part, " ... the House solemnly honored our oath of office by passing the Articles of Impeachment. It now remains for the Senate to present the rules under which we will proceed."

Pelosi added that the vote on the on the floor was overwhelming and inspiring.

Let's start with CNN's Boris Sanchez. He is traveling with the President. He joins us from West Palm Beach, Florida right now. So Boris, the President has definitely blasted Democrats repeatedly on impeachment. Nothing new there, but his Christmas message. What is it? Unity?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It is one of unity, Kate. The President calling for deeper understanding and respect, calling on Americans to exemplify Christ. This, of course, coming just a few hours after he launched into a tirade about impeachment, and said that Nancy Pelosi hated Republicans and hated people who voted for him just a few weeks after he called her crazy.

So the President here with kind of a really distinct Christmas message. Here is more of what he said alongside First Lady, Melania Trump in a message to the nation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELANIA TRUMP, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: Americans across this land are grateful for all the men and women in uniform who keeps us safe. Our military, our police, and everyone in law enforcement.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We say a special prayer for those military service members stationed far from home, and we renew our hope for peace among nations and joy to the world.

On behalf of the entire Trump family, we wish everyone a joyous and Merry Christmas and a very Happy, Happy New Year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Now, we should point out, Kate, the President did have a bit of a more subdued message last night after returning from church to Mar-a-Lago for a Christmas Eve dinner.

As he was returning, he was asked by reporters if he prayed for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. You'll recall that the President previously had criticized Pelosi Mater for saying that she prays for him and for his health and success. The President refused to answer the question. Though he did say quote, "We're going to have a great year," -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Whether you like it or not, Boris, it is good to see you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

All right joining me right now, Samantha Vinograd, CNN national security analyst who was a senior advisor to President Obama's National Security Council and Michael Zeldin, a CNN legal analyst and former Federal prosecutor. Thank you both for being here.

So we just got in some sound from an interview with Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and I want you to listen to her reaction to the impeachment process, if you will, but specifically, the top Republican in the Senate, Mitch McConnell and his statement that he is working in total coordination with the White House, the President ahead of the Senate trial. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): In fairness, when I heard that I was disturbed.

To me, it means that we have to take that step back from being hand in glove with the defense. And so I heard what Leader McConnell had said, I happen to think that that has further confused the process.

We need to prejudge and say there's nothing there or on the other hand, he should be impeached yesterday. That's wrong. In my view, that's wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: It is really fascinating. Any senator, any Republican

senator, especially talking about this at this moment ahead before it starts.

Michael, when Senator Murkowski finds the coordination disturbing, putting aside the fact that we do not know what that means for how she votes in the end? How unusual is this lock step approach that McConnell is taking with the Senate trial? Because this is, at its most basic part, part legal process and part political?

MICHAEL ZELDIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST (via Skype): That's right. And during the Clinton impeachment, Minority Leader Daschle did speak to the White House about the manner in which the trial was going to proceed, but that was more procedural. Who is going to testify? How long are they going to talk? What will the nature of the presentation order be?

[14:05:10]

ZELDIN: Not strategic, as McConnell said he is doing with White House counsel Cipollone. That's what the Senator from Alaska finds problem problematic. That's what the Chief Justice should find problematic.

You just do not sit as a juror, and in this case, they are really judge and juror and coordinate with the prosecution. It's wrong and it should probably be called out as wrong.

BOLDUAN: Now, Lisa Murkowski for one seems to be doing that very specifically. And Sam, you've worked inside the White House, not one facing impeachment, of course, but knowing the inside better than most.

I'm curious as to what the -- just the mere fact of the uncertainty of not knowing when impeachment is going to happen? When it's going to happen? What it is going to look like? What that means for doing anything else from the White House in terms of, in the meantime?

SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, the perception of a potentially lame duck President does have costs. You see this with first term Presidents facing reelection, like when I was working for Obama in the first term.

And now, of course, we're looking at this in the impeachment context. It could lead various actors not to want to enter into negotiations with the President, do longer term deals, because they're not sure that he is going to be in office going forward. That's issue number one.

Second, it's not like the world was really convinced that President Trump was deeply focused before impeachment. But that aside, impeachment is a massive resource drain.

You know, I looked through the Benghazi hearings different than impeachment. That took up a lot of time and attention within the White House responding to congressional inquiries. This White House -- BOLDUAN: Putting aside the President.

VINOGRAD: Putting aside the President, but you know, not responding to congressional inquiries, defying subpoenas, coming up with a strategy that impacts White House staff as well.

But Kate, while his impeachment process is unfolding, Trump is doing actual damage to national security when he repeats Russian talking points, when he undermines civil servants. That is actively undermining our national security while the impeachment process is playing out.

BOLDUAN: And now there's more to that I want to ask you about just one second. And, Michael, one thing that seems implicit in this debate of could Speaker Pelosi hold back the Articles indefinitely? Could Mitch McConnell's skip that step or even skip a trial, even skipping holding a Senate trial? You have dug into this. What do you think?

ZELDIN: So I think that Pelosi has to deliver the Articles of Impeachment for the impeachment to be perfected and for the Senate to hold a trial. I think that she will do that. I think she must do that. Now, I think the Senate should hold a trial.

The Senate has this unique role in an impeachment where it is both the jury and the judge. They write the rules of the court, and then they make those decisions, and those decisions are not reviewable by any court in the United States. It is solely within the parameters of the discretion of Senate,

I think that we will come to a point in time where the Senate and the House and then between Senator McConnell and Schumer, an agreement will be reached. There will be some testimony, whether it's behind closed doors as it was in the Clinton case were live in the Senate well, as the Republicans wanted in the Clinton case remains to be seen.

But I think that ultimately, there has to be a compromise here, because the nation really depends on it. And if they don't, we're really, Kate, in a constitutional crisis, and that's not good for anybody.

BOLDUAN: Michael, does everything tell you at least in the moment that there will be a compromise in the end when it comes to it?

I mean, I think neither -- I think both sides would agree they don't want to enter a moment of constitutional crisis. I mean, is it -- do you think it is more posturing and positioning come January 6, when the House and Senate are back, something is worked out that you know, if we were living in the reality that we live in right now, neither side is going to be one hundred percent happy with?

ZELDIN: That's what I think. Maybe it's Christmas and on Christmas, you know, you're optimistic. But I think that the realities of the situation with 71 percent of the American people saying they want witnesses. With moderates now represented by a senator from Alaska, and others

beginning to say, we really need to have a fair process that will withstand historical scrutiny, that we will reach that point of compromise.

I may be naive. I've made mistakes in the past as you know, but that's where I think we're headed, to some sort of compromise solution.

BOLDUAN: So Sam, "The Washington Post" has a really interesting take on the impact in kind of fallout of impeachment on national security, kind of going beyond the political realm, if you will, and this coming from "The Washington Post" reporters on this, it came from, I think it was more than 20 interviews with current and former officials on this.

[14:10:00]

BOLDUAN: Let me read you in part what they write. "The jarring developments over the past three months have also exposed the extent to which the national security establishment and the values that have traditionally guided American foreign policy are facing an extraordinary trial of their own under Trump's presidency."

"Today, the idea that a cadre of nonpartisan civil servants can loyally serve Presidents of either party in pursuit of shared national interests - a bedrock principle of the country's approach to foreign policy since World War II - is under attack."

And this just gets to from Fiona Hill to Alexander Vindman and beyond. What do you think of that?

VINOGRAD: Well, even before that, to career F.B.I. official for example, but this is going to have an immediate impact on those civil servants currently in the field.

I was a civil servant. I joined under President Bush. I continued under Obama and civil servants are deployed all around the world.

At this juncture, I don't think foreign counterparts feel confident that those civil servants including those, by the way that are in high level position, have the President's backing.

I think foreign counterparts are worried that those civil servants could be recalled back to Washington if Rudy Giuliani convinces the President that they should be recalled back for various reasons that have nothing to do with national security, so that hamstrings our team in the field.

But longer term, Kate, this is a horrible job advertisement for anybody thinking about joining the civil service, knowing that it has been both hollowed out under President Trump, and that it will take a generation just to rebuild what it used to be. So both in the immediate term and in the future, this has already had a detrimental impact.

BOLDUAN: I think it is a really important part of the conversation that is -- right? These are largely faceless people we're talking about, right? These are people who work behind the scenes in large part and I think it's a large part of the conversation that needs to happen going forward about what this means to that class of government --

VINOGRAD: Yes, they're faceless, but they're crucial. I mean, it's everything from desk jobs in Washington to senior roles in embassies are around the world in various functions.

So without them, we will see the politicization of national security. And Kate, you know National Security adviser O'Brien has already said he wants less career officials at the White House.

Our acting Ambassador to Ukraine, a career Foreign Service officer is being recalled back to Washington and reporting indicates that he may have a political appointee replace him. And the politicization of national security is not going to serve as well because it will become hyper partisan and more aligned with the President's political agenda.

BOLDUAN: It helps no and in the long run. Thank you, Sam, for being here. Thank you, Michael. I really appreciate it. Thanks for being on this Holiday.

Coming up for us. We are still waiting to see what North Korea's Christmas gift to the United States might be. The President may hope it's a vase as he said yesterday, but military officials are preparing for something very different, like a missile test.

Plus a U.S. Ambassador fold from his post in Zambia after a dispute over gay rights.

And the Pope's Christmas Day message. His call for a softening of self-centered hearts. We will be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:16:24]

BOLDUAN: Welcome back. It is a quote-unquote "Christmas gift" that comes with a warning and this, this many hours into Christmas Day, the President is still waiting for it. I'm talking about what North Korea ominously said was coming if the United States did not change its negotiating strategy on denuclearization talks.

U.S. military leaders believes that the gift could be a long range missile test, which would be an escalation from the series of tests that Kim Jong-un has conducted since the summer as this graphic there shows you.

Whatever it is, China, just hours ago urged the United States to take, quote "concrete steps" toward peace. Yet a new report from "The Washington Post" says experts and intelligence agencies suspect that North Korea never halted its efforts to build powerful new weapons.

CNN national security analyst, David Sanger is joining me now who is also a national security correspondent for "The New York Times." So David, what do you think of the likelihood that -- is the likelihood of North Korea not following through on this threat?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, they may not follow through on it now, Kate, but I suspect they will do a test at some point. I never actually thought Christmas was the right moment because usually Kim Jong-un gives a major speech right at New Year's.

It was that speech three years ago that led President Trump to tweet out that North Korea was never going to become a significant nuclear power in his watch and that he would roll all this back and three years later, it looks a bit different.

I'd less hung up on the test itself. You know, testing is important to them than the underlying fact that we've been really reporting since the Singapore Summit, which is North Korea never got off of the course it was on. It kept developing its missiles. It kept producing fissile material that you can use in nuclear weapons.

We reported over the weekend that they're probably up to a sufficient amount of fuel for about 38 weapons or so. That means they've got a good sized arsenal now, not quite Pakistan-size, but moving in that direction.

And the North Koreans basically have never gotten off of the old track while talking about the new track. And that's the fundamental problem the President has right now, because he has invested himself in the thought that he was making progress. And the only progress has been that there seems to be a personal and better relationship between the leaders of the two countries.

BOLDUAN: You know, the President was asked, as you well know about the threat yesterday, for our viewers, let me play what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Let's see, maybe it's a nice present. Maybe it's a present where he says me a beautiful vase, as opposed to a missile test. Right? I may get a vase. I may get a nice present from him. You don't know. You never know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And though the President -- I don't know -- is either basically saying stop asking the questions or isn't taking it seriously at the moment. You have been talking to senior foreign policy officials and military commanders. Why are they telling you, David, that they fear that the crisis is entering its most serious cycle yet?

SANGER: Because the only thing that the President had going for him since Singapore has been the moratorium on testing, right? The only thing he could announce that hasn't been happening in North Korea, is they stop their nuclear tests and they stopped their missile test as of November of 2017 and that wasn't a small thing, because the one thing the North Koreans has not yet proven they can do is actually loft a warhead that can re-enter the atmosphere and withstand all the heat and vibration and other pressures and actually be able to go land on its target.

[14:20:18]

SANGER: That's the one last fact that they have not yet established in the international community they're capable of doing. And you can't establish that unless you do a test that is explicitly made to demonstrate that.

So the halt in testing was important. If that falls apart, the President doesn't have much to stand on. But the fact remains that the President failed to get from Kim Jong-un a freeze on their nuclear missile activity while they were negotiating.

That's the basic thing that Barack Obama got from the Iranians before the Iran talk started. It's what Bill Clinton got from the North Koreans in 1994. And the President didn't get it, and now he is sort of suffering from that.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And then I think that is an important basic fact to remember as we enter 2020. And what the President -- how the President characterizes his policy, his approach and any progress that he has made in terms of this very important foreign policy moment that he has focused so much on. It's good to see you, David. Thank you.

SANGER: Great to see you. Merry Christmas.

BOLDUAN: Thank you. You, too. Another U.S. Ambassador is being pulled from his post after standing up and speaking out for gay rights. That's coming up.

And we'll also be counting down the top nine of 2019. What will you remember as the biggest political stories of this historic year?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:53]

BOLDUAN: In an extraordinary move, the State Department has recalled the U.S. Embassy to the African nation of Zambia, from the embassy there and it has to do with the American diplomat speaking out against the country's record on gay rights and speaking out against government corruption.

CNN national security reporter, Kylie Atwood is here. She has been following the story. So Kylie, what is really going on here? Because what did the Ambassador say that set this in motion?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, well, it's a little complex and a little confusing, but let's walk through what has happened over the last month or so.

So Ambassador Foote came out and criticized the Zambian government, because they had put two men in jail for being gay, sentenced them to 15 years in prison. So he came out very critical of that move. Also criticized the Zambian government for corruption. And at that point, the Zambian President came out and essentially said

that he no longer wanted Ambassador Foote in the country and said that he had made that known to the U.S. government. And there was a ton of push back to Ambassador Foote from folks in Zambia because of his comments.

So he came out with a statement in early December, basically saying that he was shocked by how critical folks had been, and I want to read you some of what he said in that statement.

He said, quote, "I was shocked at the venom and hate directed at me and my country, largely in the name of, quote 'Christian' values by a small minority of Zambians. I thought perhaps incorrectly, that Christianity meant trying to live with our Lord Jesus Christ. I'm not qualified to sermonize, but I cannot imagine Jesus would have used bestiality comparisons or referred to his fellow human beings as 'dogs,' or 'worse than animals,' allusions made repeatedly by your countrymen and women about homosexuals."

So here coming out with a very aggressive response, essentially, to their frustration of his criticism.

And then at the end of the day, the U.S. State Department did end up recalling Ambassador Foote. They said that essentially because the President no longer wanted him there, he was considered a persona non grata.

Now, this comes at an interesting moment, Kate, because, you know, the Trump administration has received a mixed bag of reviews in terms of how much it stands up for folks who identify as LGBTQ community members. And of course, they've received criticism for the fact that those who are transgender are no longer allowed to serve openly in the U.S. military.

But we also have U.S. Ambassadors working for the Trump administration, like Ambassador Ric Grenell who are going forth and trying to promote countries to stand up for folks who identify with homosexual sexual orientations, and that's something that just happened last week. So a juxtaposition to what we're seeing here today.

BOLDUAN: Yes, it's pretty remarkable. It seems to be more there than meets the eye with what's going on with Ambassador Foote. Kylie, thank you so much for bringing that to us. I appreciate it.

Still ahead for us, a kidnapped newborn reunited with her family after her mother was murdered. The emotional homecoming when CNN NEWSROOM continues.

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[14:30:00]

END