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Interview with Rep. Mark Pocan, D-WI; Washington Post Reports, U.S. Eyeing Cyber Warfare Tactics Against Russia. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 27, 2019 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

POCAN: -- he's not an impartial juror, that's, again, breaking the rules that exist.

[10:30:08]

She is simply trying to get the Senate to follow the rules so that the American people can really see the truth front and center, and that means allowing some of those key people from the administration to be able to testify.

NOBLES: So I know that you want to see some of these key people. I assume the acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, you're probably like to hear from John Bolton, there are probably some others you'd like to hear from. President Trump, on the other hand, believes that you should bring in former Vice President Joe Biden and perhaps Hunter Biden should be called to testify. Are you concerned at all if you open the door to bring in witnesses for this Senate trial that there could be some witnesses that may not necessarily help the Democratic case and perhaps could maybe even cause a little bit more confusion?

POCAN: Yes. The witnesses that he needs right now, Donald Trump needs people who can say he's actually innocent. And if they can't actually say he's innocent, I don't blame them for not having them come forward.

But, again, inn America, that doesn't pass the smell test, and maybe (ph) the swamp in D.C., where Donald Trump has really mastered the swamp process, but it doesn't pass in places like South Central Wisconsin. Here, people are saying, if I was innocence, of course, I'm going to have people who can profess my innocence go and testify. But the fact that Donald Trump isn't, again, it's not passing the smell test, it's why he is losing support right now. And if they keep playing these games in the Senate, I think his poll numbers are really tank.

NOBLES: So talk to me about that. You have been back in your district over the holiday. I cover the 2020 campaign, so I spend a lot of time outside of the swamp as well. I'm always struck by how little you see average voters talking about impeachment. It doesn't seem to be a top priority for a lot of individual voters. Are you seeing that reflected in your constituents? Are they more concerned about these kitchen table issues, how they're going to pay for rent every month, how they're going to pay for their kid's colleges? Is that much more of a priority for them? POCAN: Yes. I think it's a combination. I think in my town halls that I had, got a set of them last October, so that's a couple of months ago when this was in full swing, people were talking about impeachment but they also were talking about healthcare and the high cost of prescription drugs. They're talking about being able to make sure they could pay their mortgage or rent, can they take a family vacation that year, which is why the Democrats, I think you'll notice, passed a major bill to address prescription drugs. In fact, the most aggressive to negotiate prescription drug prices ever passed in Congress, we also did in the last couple of weeks.

So we're doing both. We are walking and chewing gum. And the public is also able to do that. I think at the end of the day though, one person isn't being truthful with them and they are really starting to realize that. And another group of people are really getting a lot of stuff done that will affect their bottom line, their pocketbook. And I think all of that is now coming to fruition.

NOBLES: Congressman, I asked that question just so you could say walking and chewing gum at the same time, and you did it beautifully. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

POCAN: I'm very glad to.

NOBLES: All right. Thank you for being on, sir. Have a great rest of your holiday and Happy New Year.

POCAN: Yes, thank you. And same to you and all of your watchers.

NOBLES: And with Democrats spending so much time in predominantly white Iowa ahead of the February caucuses, there is concern that candidates are not paying enough attention to a key voting bloc, Latinos. We're going to take a closer look, next.

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[10:35:00]

NOBLES: 2020 Democrats are leaving no stone unturned in their efforts to win Iowa. That's where former Vice President Joe Biden and Senator Amy Klobuchar are today. The Washington Post that was reporting that Hispanic leaders and activists say they feel ignored by candidates who have spent much of their time focusing on states like Iowa and New Hampshire.

CNN's Leyla Santiago joins me now. And, Leyla, of course, you and I both have been on the campaign trail. I'd like to hear what you're hearing from Latino voters when it comes to their outreach from Democrats.

LEYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Listen, I have had a lot of Latino voters telling me that they feel that the Democrats take them for granted. And here's why that matters. Because for the first time, Latinos are projected to, in 2020 anyway, make up at least more than 13 percent of the electorate, perspective here. That could, for the first time, exceed the number of black voters, their share in the electorate. So they matter in critical states like California, Nevada, Texas, Florida always a very, very big one.

So they are looking for these candidates to really speak to their issues. And I think one of the mistakes that a lot of folks make is that immigration would cover all of that. But, really, this is a group that should not be treated as a monolith. They care very much. They care rather very much about education, healthcare. After the mass shooting in El Paso, they care about discrimination and how that could affect their daily lives and the different generations of the community. So this matters.

And you're seeing candidates somewhat reach out, right? You will see on Twitter where they tweet in Spanish. And the debates a while ago, we saw many of them speaking Spanish. But it's a matter of making sure that they feel understood. And at this point, not all Latino voters feel that they are understood and take into consideration their relationship with the last Democratic administration. President Obama was certainly praised and celebrated for what he did for DREAMERS but he was also called the deporter in chief. So it's a little bit of a shaky relationship on accomplishments and what's been done for this community.

NOBLES: Yes. So let's talk more about that.

[10:40:00]

Earlier this week, former Vice President Joe Biden gained a bunch of pretty big endorsements. I mean, do these endorsements carry much clout with minority voters, particularly Latino voters? Do they follow the lead of other Latino leaders?

SANTIAGO: Right. Biden got Representative Tony Cardenas. And I think, really, what these endorsements are about maybe not necessarily the individual endorsement but minorities, in general, are looking for these endorsements for the issue of trust. Can they get people, their leaders to get on board with these campaigns and establish trust among the Latino and black voters?

You will hear candidates. I asked Senator Elizabeth Warren this a few weeks ago. What are you doing to court those votes? And she said, show up. But it's more than just show up. It's show up and gain trust. And that's what these candidates are hoping that the endorsements can do for them.

NOBLES: And Latino voters, Leyla, as well as anyone, are not monolithic. They come from all different stripes and perspectives. We just ran a great story from Nick Valencia talking about a group of Latino voters that are working to get support for President Trump. Is there an opportunity here for Republicans and the president in particular to gain traction and more support from Latino voters?

SANTIAGO: One of the interesting things that I have heard from Latino voters that are very much backing Trump, and keep in mind, there is a generational divide not only for Latinos but also black voters, but I have heard on more than one occasion now, those who are single-issue voters who and are saying this is a matter of faith and abortion plays a big role in their decision to back Trump. NOBLES: All right. Leyla Santiago, terrific work as always. Thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.

Democrats made waves this year with the most diverse field of candidates to ever compete for the White House. We'll tell you what other political stories made big news in 2019. That's when we come back.

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[10:45:00]

NOBLES: 2019 was a historic year in politics from record fundraising numbers to the impeachment of President Trump. CNN's Dana Bash has the top nine political stories of the year.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It has been quite the year in politics. Here are the top nine political stories of 2019.

It didn't get as many headlines as other big political stories, but make no mistake about it.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Conservative judges.

BASH: The president's success in getting his judges on the bench will have implications for years to come. Thanks to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell who was focused like a laser on this, the Senate confirmed a record 50 circuit court judges. McConnell took to Twitter boasting that is already the most in any president's whole first term since 1980.

TRUMP: The Constitution of the United States.

BASH: President Trump announced his re-election campaign the day he was inaugurated, a historically early start that his team took advantage of, raising more than $165 million, nearly 100 million in this year alone.

BRAD PARSCALE, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN MANAGER: It's much more efficient two years out to try to find a possible voter, possible donor. It's just a considerable advantage that the other side won't have because you just can't replace time.

BASH: Control of those big coffers, not only his re-election campaign, but the Republican Parties contributed to the president's firm grip on the GOP, which, in various ways, became even more clearly the party of Donald Trump in 2019.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We take back our democracy.

BASH: The Democrats' 2020 field took shape early in the year as the most diverse ever, more women and candidates of color running for a single party than ever before, the first openly gay candidate a major contender.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: The top 12 Democratic presidential candidates are at their positions.

BASH: It was also the biggest. CNN's October debate was the most crowded stage in the history of presidential primaries.

KLOBUCHAR: I want to give a reality check here to Elizabeth, because no one on this stage wants to protect billionaires, not even the billionaire wants to protect billionaires. We just have different approaches. Your idea is not the only idea.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think, as Democrats, we are going to succeed when we dream big and fight hard, not when we dream small and quit before we get started.

BASH: That shrunk to seven in December thanks to the party's increasing fundraising and polling thresholds.

No question defined the Democratic primary fight this year more than this. Do voters want an ideological revolution or a candidate focused on relieve from Donald Trump?

At the top of the field, Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are the revolutionaries, promising sweeping change, while former Vice President Joe Biden, Mayor Pete Buttigieg and Senator Amy Klobuchar say incremental change is more realistic. Nowhere was this more on display than healthcare.

JOE BIDEN (D), FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Build on Obamacare, add a public option.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: 71 percent of Democrats support Medicare-for-all.

BASH: Stay tuned for the answer in 2020.

[10:50:00]

2019 started with a historic new class of House Democrats, a record number of women sworn in and many more firsts, the first Muslim American women, the first Native American women and the first female House Speaker in history reclaimed the gavel.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I am particularly proud to be woman speaker of the House of this Congress which marks the 100th year of women having the right to vote.

BASH: Speaking of Nancy Pelosi, going head-to-head with Donald Trump is one of the 2019 storylines, starting with the longest government shutdown in U.S. history.

PELOSI: Federal workers will not be receiving their paychecks. The president seems to be insensitive to that. He thinks maybe they can just ask their father for more money. But they can't.

TRUMP: The State of the Union speech has been canceled by Nancy Pelosi because she doesn't want to hear the truth.

BASH: In October, a clash over the president deciding to pull troops out of Syria ended in a Pelosi walkout. The president tweeted a photo of Pelosi having what he calls an unhinged meltdown. She owned the image making it her social media cover photo.

PELOSI: Article I is adopted.

BASH: The year ended with the speaker reluctantly leading the House and making Trump only the third president in history to be impeached.

PELOSI: I pray for the president all the time.

BASH: After nearly two years, Robert Mueller concluded his Russia investigation with a 448-page report. On the key question of collusion, Mueller's probe did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in the election interference activities. It noted ten instances where the president may have been obstructed justice, writing, while this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.

Much to the outrage of Democrats, Attorney General William Barr tried to play it as exoneration.

WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The evidence developed by Special Counsel is not sufficient to establish that the president committed an obstruction of justice offense.

BASH: Democrats were hoping Mueller would clear it up. But his nearly seven-hour testimony, slow moving and drama-free, did not.

Then a whistleblower complaint that Trump urged the Ukrainian president to investigate Joe Biden and his son, Hunter, in exchange for nearly $400 million in U.S. military aid.

TRUMP: that call was perfect.

BASH: Moderate, vulnerable House Democrats who had resisted impeachment before changed their minds and called for an inquiry. An equally reluctant House speaker announced the House would do just that.

PELOSI: The actions taken to date by the president have seriously violated the Constitution.

BASH: A day later, the White House released a rough transcript of that July conversation. In it was what Democrats would focus their impeachment inquiry on, an apparent quid pro quo.

The impeachment inquiry would make its way through the House Intelligence Committee with closed-door witness testimonies, followed by several days of notable public testimony.

GORDON SONDLAND, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE E.U.: Was there a quid pro quo? As I testified previously with regard to the requested White House call and the White House meeting, the answer is yes.

BASH: Former Trump Russian Adviser Fiona Hill called out some of the president's team for carrying out a, quote, domestic political errand and sent a warning.

FIONA HILL, TRUMP'S FORMER TOP RUSSIA ADVISER: Russia security services and their proxies have geared up to repeat their interference in the 2020 election. We are running out of time to stop them.

BASH: Republicans attacked the process, generally side stepping the facts.

REP. DOUG COLLINS (R-GA): You can't make your case against the president because nothing happened.

BASH: Democrats drafted two articles of impeachment, abuse of power and obstruction of Congress, which passed the committee and later the full House on party line votes, the year ending with Donald J. Trump, the third president in history, to be impeached.

So how does it all end? You're going to have to wait until 2020.

Dana Bash, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES: All right. That's it for me today. Thanks so much for watching. I'm Ryan Nobles.

At This Hour with Kate Bolduan starts after a quick break.

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[10:55:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN AT THIS HOUR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. Thank you so much for joining me.

We start with the very latest on a plane crash that left at least 12 people dead and dozens more injured, the tragic scene unfolding this morning in the Central Asian nation of Kazakhstan.

[11:00:08]