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Mass Stabbing at Hanukkah Celebration in New York; Interview with Governor Andrew Cuomo (D-NY) on the Stabbing Attack; Shooting at Church Near Fort Worth, Texas; Benjamin Netanyahu Expresses Outrage After 5 People Stabbed at Rabbi's House; U.S. Strikes 5 Facilities in Iraq and Syria Linked to Iranian-Backed Militia; Bernie Sanders Returns to Iowa with a Revamped Strategy; National Security Adviser Says Mike Pompeo Told Him He's Not Running for Senate; Immigration Judges Quit Over Trump Administration Policies. Aired 1-2p ET
Aired December 29, 2019 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:14]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN HOST: Hello. Thanks for joining me. I'm Martin Savidge in for Fredricka Whitfield.
We're going to begin this hour with breaking news. A 37-year-old New York man has made his first court appearance just over an hour ago. 37-year-old Grafton Thomas was formally charged with five counts of attempted murder after a mass stabbing at a Hanukkah celebration last night outside of New York City.
Witnesses say the suspect walked into the home of an orthodox rabbi in Rockland County, pulled out a long knife and stabbed five people. The house was full of more than 100 worshippers who had gathered to light the Hanukkah candle.
CNN has obtained exclusive images of the aftermath and let me begin by warning you that these pictures are graphic. All of the victims are Hasidic Jews. Two are in critical condition. Police captured the blood-covered suspect shortly after he drove over the George Washington Bridge in New York City.
While the motive for the attack is still unclear, Governor Andrew Cuomo calls the incident domestic terrorism, vowing legislative action to combat a growing tide of hateful acts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: At the end of the day, it's not just about words, it's about action. And we have seen enough in New York. This is violence spurred by hate. It is mass violence and I consider this an act of domestic terrorism. Let's call it what it is. These people are domestic terrorists. And the law should reflect that and they should be punished as if it was an act of terrorism.
Look, it is a nationwide problem. And I referred to it as an American cancer and I believe that. You see it against members of the Jewish community. You see it against members of the LGBTQ community. What's happening is this nation's diversity, which is our greatest strength, is turning into a weakness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: We have a team of correspondents that are covering this story for us. Polo Sandoval is at the courthouse. But let's start with CNN's Alison Kosik in Monsey, New York, near the home where that attack happened.
Alison, how's the community reacting today?
ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Martin, as you can imagine, this is a community in disbelief after this very violent crime happening behind me in a rabbi's home. It happened just before 10:00 last night. The alleged attacker Grafton Thomas entering Rabbi Chaim Rottenberg's home through an unlocked front door.
Now keep in mind, the rabbi often kept his front door unlocked. It was an open-door policy during a celebration like that they were having. It is the seventh night of Hanukkah that they were this celebration. The attacker took out a knife that one attendee called the size of a broom stick and went on a stabbing spree, stabbing five people, as you mentioned.
One right now in critical condition at the hospital. Four in stable condition at the hospital. At least 100 people were inside the home behind me celebrating the seventh night of Hanukkah. And when this attacker came inside, the rabbi was in the middle of lighting the menorah. One of them guests, his name, Joseph Gluck, is being called a hero because he threw a coffee table at the attacker and actually took down the attacker's license plate.
That's a good thing because his license plate was spotted as he was driving across the George Washington Bridge headed for New York City. Shortly after he was picked up in Harlem with blood all over him and arrested and then transported back here to upstate New York.
Keep in mind, this is a tight knit Orthodox Hassidic Jewish community in Rockland County. Of the 90,000 residents here, one-third are Jewish. I spoke with one representative for the Jewish community. He said especially after this being the 13th anti-Semitic attack to happen in New York state in the past three weeks, he said if you're Jewish, we're living in a time where you have to look over your shoulder.
Martin, back to you.
SAVIDGE: Alison Kosik, on the scene of that attack, thank you very much.
Now let's go to CNN's Polo Sandoval. He is at the court where the suspect was charged in this attack.
And Polo, what more are you learning about the suspect and about a possible motive? POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Martin, we were in court as he
entered a plea of not guilty for those five counts of attempted murder as well as an additional charge of burglary here. We watched as Grafton Thomas was led into the courtroom. Of course that camera capturing that moment where the clothing that police had described as being bloodstained now replaced with a white jumpsuit.
His hands were restrained behind his back. He was released for just a few moments just so he could sign a protection order. The terms of a protection order that a judge put in place should he be able to meet a $5 million bond.
[13:05:06]
But I can tell you that he remained relatively silent here, allowing his attorney, the public defender to do much of the speaking for him during this hearing. Meanwhile, from the prosecutor, we were provided a clearer picture of what took place. Officials -- prosecutors are saying that this individual essentially made his way into that house and then used what was described in court today as a machete-style knife to then seriously injure five individuals. One of them still critical, what was described a short while ago in court as a skull fracture.
And because of that, the prosecutors essentially pushing for either bond to be denied or obviously a very high one, which is what we saw today here. So that's essentially what we're seeing here. He was -- he remains in custody. He will be back in court again on January 3rd. And he does have an opportunity to appeal. But for now, of course, he does remain behind bars.
In the meantime, really a lot of the insight that we've had on the investigation, a little bit of it came from here. But of course a lot of it also coming from New York Governor Andrew Cuomo describing this as a hate-fueled attack on a group of basically peaceful individuals coming together celebrating Hanukkah -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: All right. Polo Sandoval, outside of the courthouse where we just had a hearing for the suspect, thank you very much.
Joining me now on the telephone is New York Governor Andrew Cuomo.
And Governor, let me begin. You're calling this attack an act of domestic terrorism. And I'm wondering what leads you to make that determination early in the investigation when police have yet to announce a motive?
CUOMO: Well, the -- we know the facts, Martin. Good to be with you. And I think we need some clarity and we need some honesty at this point in this country's history. Unless you're living on another planet, you're fully aware of what's going on in this country and the rash of hate crimes that has been going on. Synagogue shootings, shootings in nightclubs that cater to LGBTQ people, anti-Latino shootings.
There is an American cancer. And it's spreading of hate, hate for different religions, hate for different creeds, different sexual orientations. It is anti-American because we are all about diversity and all about differences. And we're seeing it in this state now predominantly with anti-Semitic attacks.
As your reporter pointed out, 13 attacks since December 8th. And most of those attacks in the orthodox Jewish community. Hassidic Jewish people where the dress and their culture make it clear that they are orthodox Jewish. This person came into the home, didn't say a word. It was Hanukkah. It was a gathering for Hanukkah in the rabbi's home. And tried to kill people.
What is terrorism? It is a hate-motivated act to instill fear based on race, color, creed, with the intent to murder. And that's what this was.
SAVIDGE: So what can be --
CUOMO: But what's the motive? The motive is hate, Martin. That's what it is. It's anti-Semitism.
SAVIDGE: What can be done to stop it, Governor? And what are you proposing?
CUOMO: Well, this is a multiheaded beast. Right? It's ignorant, it's intolerance. Ignorance because, Martin, you know, George Washington celebrated in a synagogue with Jewish people. The nation is founded on freedom of religion. It's intolerance because we are all different, unless you're Native American, you came from somewhere else. But it's also illegal.
And government's job is to act. And we see this going on. And nobody wants to call it what it is because it's frightening. Nobody likes the diagnosis of cancer. Well, this is an American cancer. And government's job is to act. Number one job is to keep people safe. We're going to increase police presence for all the Jewish communities, especially the orthodox Jewish communities.
But then I want to pass along the state of New York that calls these acts what they are. It's terrorism. It's domestic terrorism. Call it what it is. Let's be honest about the problem and then let's prosecute it as a terrorism crime, which has the maximum penalty in this state. And that's what it is. And it has to stop and people have to know their government is going to stand up and protect them.
SAVIDGE: I know that you've been meeting with Jewish leaders in the wake of this attack. And I'm wondering how are they coping with this latest tragedy and what changes do they want moving forward?
CUOMO: Well, I think, Martin, I was in the rabbi's home this morning where the attack took place. When you say 13 attacks since December 8th, it reminds me of the situation this nation is in with gun violence.
[13:10:06]
People don't want to hear anymore "I offer you my thoughts and prayers." They want action. They want a response. They want to know that their government can do something. That we're not impotent, that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. And they want their government to act. And they want safety and they want more police and they want to make sure that if a person does something like this, society sends a clear message that says you will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
It is terrorism. And that we stand in solidarity with the Jewish community the way we stand in solidarity with the LGBTQ community or the Latino community or the Puerto Rican community or Muslim community. We're all from somewhere else and we have no tolerance whatsoever for discrimination and violence and hate. That's who we are as Americans. And yes, it has been going on, but let's be honest. Put all these episodes together. Connect the dots. And see the pattern of hate that is destroying this country's soul.
SAVIDGE: Earlier today, Ivanka Trump, the president's daughter and adviser, sent out a tweet. She was saying, quote, "Attacks on Jewish New Yorkers were reported almost every single day this past week. The increasing frequency of anti-Semitic violence in New York and around the country receives far too little local governmental action and national press attention," unquote.
Now while the president's daughter is tweeting about this attack, the president's Twitter feed is all about Nancy Pelosi and impeachment and the homelessness of New York. So far, he's not commented on this latest Jewish attack. What do you make of that?
CUOMO: Look, if I were to comment on the president's tweets, I would have been -- have nothing else to do but comment on his tweets. And I don't want to politicize this issue.
But, Martin, there is an atmosphere of hate and anger that is pervasive in this country. And it is either emanated from or resonates from Washington, D.C. The political polarization is part of it. There is just no tolerance, no collegiality, finger pointing, blaming, demonizing and that has an effect. And this country, its greatest strength is its greatest weakness. Most personalities can be like that. Our greatest strength, our greatest weakness is our differences, and our diversity.
The founding premise of this nation, which was unique as we can take people from all across the globe and form one community. We can take Muslims and Jewish people and Christians, and we can forge one community. No other country has ever done that. But it is a work in progress. It's the laboratory of the American experiment and democracy. And you can make it a positive or you can make it a negative.
And this nation now is making it a negative. We are consuming ourselves. We are fighting with one another. I call it an American cancer because it's one cell in the body politic attacking other cells in the body politic. And we keep addressing these situations on an episodic basis. Every week it's another racial crime or religious crime. And we talk about that situation but we don't talk about the pattern that has developed. And if you refuse to recognize a problem, you will never resolve it.
We have an epidemic of hate. It's an American cancer, call it what it is. It's domestic terrorism and let's address it and let's stand up as one nation and say we are indivisible, we are united. That was the pledge of allegiance to the flag. And that's who we are and we are going to enforce it.
SAVIDGE: New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, thank you very much for joining us today.
CUOMO: Thank you, Martin. Have a good afternoon.
SAVIDGE: Thank you.
Let's turn now to Paul Callan. He's a former New York City homicide prosecutor and a CNN legal analyst.
Paul, Governor Cuomo says that this attack was fueled by anti- Semitism. Where do investigators begin here?
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think the governor is absolutely right. There's no question this is an anti-Semitic attack. The governor also describing it as an act of domestic terrorism, which it may well be.
The suspect in this case now faces as much as 20 years to life in prison depending upon the specific charges that are lodged against him. But for an attempted murder, if it's provable, that's what can happen. So in truth, we already have very severe penalties available for this kind of crime.
[13:15:01]
Now I would add that New York has very vigorous hate crime legislation on the books already for this kind of very, very serious attack.
SAVIDGE: That being said then, you heard I believe the governor saying that he's calling for a domestic terrorism law, I believe is the way he put it, in New York. How would that change prosecution? Would it make it even a tougher sentence? How would it all work?
CALLAN: Well, I would have to see the details of his proposal. I don't really know how you can make a sentence, you know, tougher than 20 years to life. He could get life imprisonment by calling it domestic terrorism. It would depend upon the details of the governor's proposal.
I will tell you one thing that I think the governor should take a serious look at. As of the beginning of this month because of bail reform legislation, hate crimes against Jewish people, Muslim people, gay people, you pick the group, if no physical injury is caused in the attack, that person must be released without bail.
And we had eight anti-Semitic attacks in Brooklyn over the last couple of weeks. One of the suspects in that case was arrested and confessed to slapping three orthodox Jewish women and then that person was immediately released in court despite a prior criminal record. Now that's because we have changed the bail laws in New York and hate crimes are going to get a pass if no physical injury is caused. You can slap somebody around and curse them out using anti-Semitic rants. So I think that's something that should be looked at.
SAVIDGE: Yes. Definitely a concern there.
Paul Callan, thank you very much for joining us.
CALLAN: Thank you.
SAVIDGE: We're going to talk more later.
We have more breaking news now to tell you about. Police responding to a shooting at a church in Texas. We'll have the very latest details on that, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
SAVIDGE: Breaking news into CNN now. Emergency crews are responding to a shooting at a church in White Settlement, Texas. It is called the Church of Christ and it is near the city of Fort Worth. That's actually in the suburb northwest of Fort Worth.
We are waiting for a press conference that we are expecting to begin at any moment. But in the meantime, let's go straight to CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem.
And, Juliette, what insight can you give us as far as what we know?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: So right now, just -- I just got off the phone right now there -- it appears that the active shooter situation has been stopped for now, which is good, and we simply don't know motivation at this stage. So we just have to be careful. You know, it's a church. We've had synagogues this week. We have mosques throughout the year. We know that religious institutions are targets. But nonetheless, there are still incidences that --
[13:20:06]
SAVIDGE: Juliette, I'm going to interrupt you. We'll go right now to the presser taking place in Texas.
KAYYEM: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were called for assistance. That's why we're here assisting them with this incident at this time. At 9:57 this morning, White Settlement Police Department received a phone call for gunshots specifically a patient with gunshot wounds here on at the West Freeway Church of Christ.
When White Settlement PD and -- White Settlement PD and White Settlement Fire Department arrived on scene, they did find a total of three patients that have been transported in critical condition. That does include what they believe is the shooter. So it's a total of three in critical condition that have been transported including what they believe at this time is the shooter.
I don't have a lot of details as far as where exactly the incident occurred. If it was inside the building or outside the building. Those are still unfolding. We'll continue to assist White Settlement with whatever they need. A very tragic day when anybody in our community suffers. Whether it's a community that's just next to Fort Worth or Fort Worth itself. Our hearts and prayers go out to all the families that were affected by this incident. We'll continue to pray for them and continue to do everything we can for them.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you know if somebody with a conceal carry (INAUDIBLE)? Any word of that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this time, everything is still very much in the beginning stages of this investigation. As we continue to work through it, we'll update you guys with what information we can give you.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The identity of the shooter is unknown and then (INAUDIBLE)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not have any of that information at this time. The information I've got is about those patients. As far as the shooter, the motive and everything like that, we don't have that at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) in the sanctuary or where at inside the church?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, I do not know if it was inside or outside at this point. I do --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Where they are transported?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe they were transported to JPS, which is downtown Fort Worth.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And all in critical condition?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were all transported in critical condition. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are the two victims church members who were in the service?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, this is all very beginning stages of this. We'll continue to work with White Settlement, Fort Worth, the Tarrant County Sheriff's Office to work on that information for you.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do we know if ATF would be handling it any other further?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not know that information. UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We had heard two people dead, though. So you
think (INAUDIBLE)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I cannot confirm fatalities at the this time, no.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) tragically this is. Just right at the end of the year. Can you talk about that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Beginning of the year, end of the year, holiday, it's all very tragic. Any time that we suffer loss in our community, it's -- not only affects the people that are here today, but it affects the first responders as well. All of our first responders carry these things with them for a long time. And we'll continue to assist the community here and we'll continue to assist the firefighters and first responders and police officers that were here today.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You've been talking to people at the service?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not aware of exactly what the time frame was or where the shooting has occurred yet.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You already said around 9:55?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 9:57 is when the first dispatch for White Settlement PD was received.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are there still people inside the church? (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are actively talking to people that were here at the time of the shooting, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you know how many people were in the sanctuary?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't. I don't. I'm going to go back. I'm going to work with White Settlement. This is a -- this is, obviously, something we don't do a lot when we are here, assisting another agency for the public information aspect. They are obviously very involved in this incident right now. I wanted to make sure I could get you guys some details as quick as I could. I apologize that there's not a lot, but that is what I can 100 percent tell you right now.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you tell us -- just seen police dogs on the scene about 15 minute ago. Is there still a possible danger on the scene?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So I can tell you those are actually Fort Worth Fire Department bomb dogs, our explosive ordinance dogs. That is a precaution. We do not believe that there is a threat, but we are going to do everything we can to make sure that 100 percent everything is safe.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are you saying that you're keeping the congregants in the house and place right now where no one is allowed to leave, everyone is still in the sanctuary?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fort Worth PD and White Settlement PD are actively talking to them about what happened. What they saw, getting witness statements. All right? As soon as I can get something, I'll try to get back to you, guys.
[13:25:04]
I'll send it out on our Twitter, the Fort Worth Fire Department Twitter. I'll let you know exactly what time and I will try to get them to get a written statement out as soon as we can, too. All right? Thank you.
SAVIDGE: And you were just listening to a press conference that was held by law enforcement in White Settlement, Texas. That's a suburb northwest of Fort Worth, Texas. Three people in critical condition transported to hospital including what authorities say is one of the shooters here.
I want to bring back Juliette Kayyem here.
And, Juliette, one of the things I noted is that the authorities said when they get on the scene they didn't report any gunfire. So the shooter somehow is critically injured, slight wounded maybe in some way. Anything you can make out of that?
KAYYEM: I mean, at this stage, it's either self-inflicted or someone else was armed. So there is some preliminary reporting out of there and a lot of these churches are -- have armed guards. They are so big. You know, these are, in many cases, thousands of people or a couple hundred people. They have their own security. We've seen this with synagogues as well, as of late, when they've become targets of attacks.
So we don't know how the shooter was killed and that's relevant because obviously we want to get to motive. The other issue, which I have just seen online, so it cannot be denied that there is YouTube video. A lot of these sermons are recorded because they are large and they are for posterity and people go back and listen to the sermon. So there's video online, which is being authenticated of the shooting.
That's -- so that's something just to be aware of, that there is some sort of video that is out there of the shooting. You know, we're at this stage, Martin, where, you know, I sort of do this sigh of relief that oh, it's only two -- you know, two people who are critically injured or dead. That's not a good place to be as a nation, but obviously, the harm could have been much greater given the size of that church.
But certainly I'm not happy that I think that this was not an epic tragedy because our numbers are so low because we have seen huge numbers in the past at churches and synagogues.
SAVIDGE: Right. And what once was unthinkable were acts of violence in houses of worship now in the past 24 hours have been shown to be more and more tragically a norm. KAYYEM: Yes.
SAVIDGE: Juliette Kayyem, we'll stay in touch with you and get back as soon as we know more. Thank you.
KAYYEM: Thank you.
SAVIDGE: And we will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:30:59]
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN HOST: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is condemning the recent string of anti-Semitic attacks in New York. Netanyahu expressing outrage after five people were stabbed at a Jewish rabbi's home last night during a celebration on the seventh night of Hanukkah.
CNN's Oren Liebermann joins me now from Jerusalem with more on the reaction from there.
And, Oren, what are Israeli officials saying?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Martin, as you can see here behind me, it's past sunset. It is the eighth night of Hanukkah, the end of what is supposed to be a joyous holiday. But as the chairman for the Jewish Agency said after this attack, what is known as the Festival of Lights, has become unfortunately a festival of darkness.
Of course Israeli leaders including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Israeli President Reuven Rivlin expressed their outrage at the attack. Netanyahu went a step further offering his help to local authorities and to any other countries looking to fight anti-Semitism.
Here's what he had to say at the beginning of the cabinet meeting this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Israel strongly condemns the latest surge of anti-Semitism in the brutal attack in the middle of the Hanukkah holiday at the rabbi's house in Monsey, New York. We send our wishes of recovery to the wounded.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIEBERMANN: It's worth noting that next month Israel will host an anti-Semitism conference that coincides with the 75th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, the Nazi concentration camp in Poland. That is all about addressing anti-Semitism and will play host to world leaders who will discuss how to effectively deal with this because it's not just a New York problem. It's not just a U.S. problem. We have seen it in Europe and we've seen it in other places as well. Part of that answer, Yad Vashem's job, the Israeli holocaust museum's
job is to work on education about anti-Semitism as well as about the holocaust, and to disseminate that education to the world. But it's going to take much more than that. As the chairman of the Jewish Agency pointed out, it begins with the Jews, but it never ends with just the Jews -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: Oren Liebermann, in Jerusalem, thank you very much for that.
And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:35:02]
ANNOUNCE: This is CNN breaking news.
SAVIDGE: News just into CNN. U.S. forces have conducted strikes in Iraq and Syria against five facilities tied to an Iran-backed militia blamed for a series of attacks on joint U.S.-Iraqi military facilities housing American forces.
CNN White House reporter Sarah Westwood is in West Palm Beach.
And, Sarah, what have we learned?
SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Martin, Assistant Secretary of Defense Jonathan Hoffman today announced what the Pentagon is describing as precision defensive strikes against targets associated with an Iran-backed militia that the U.S. has blamed for a series of attacks on Iraqi bases, the most recent of which was Friday. That strike on a base in Iraq killed an American civilian contractor, injured four other American service members.
Now the Pentagon said it hit five targets associated with this group. Three in Iraq and two in Syria. The Pentagon saying that those targets included a weapons storage facility and command locations that were used to plan and execute attacks on bases that house coalition forces.
Now this is the first significant retaliation that the U.S. has taken against this group again that the U.S. says it's associated with Iran. The Pentagon describing these as defensive, but make no mistake, this is clearly a sign of things getting stepped up in Iraq against this group that has ties to the Iranians.
SAVIDGE: All right. Sarah Westwood, giving us the latest information on these airstrikes that were conducted in Iraq and Syria. We'll be right back with more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: A community is reeling after a stabbing attack during the Hanukkah celebration at a rabbi's house in New York. Five Hassidic Jewish people stabbed in what the governor is calling an act of domestic terrorism fueled by intolerance. One witness describes the harrowing moments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARON KOHN, WITNESS: I saw him walk in by the door. I asked who was coming in in middle of the night with an umbrella. While I was saying that he pulled it out from the thing, and he started to run into the big room which was on the left side.
[13:40:08]
And I threw him tables and chairs that he should get out of here. And he injured a guy, was a (INAUDIBLE) guy. He was bleeding here, bleeding in his hand, all over. I ran into the other room because I tried to save my life. I saw him running down this way. So I ran out and two ladies there came along with me. They're still hysterical. What time is now? I don't even know what the time now. And they're still hysterical right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: A suspect is now behind bars facing five counts of attempted murder and being held on $5 million bond.
Up next, is Mike Pompeo running for the Senate? We'll have the latest on all the mixed messages.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:45:33]
SAVIDGE: The Iowa caucuses are just 36 days away now. A timeline that is kicking the 2020 Democratic campaigns into high gear. One of the presidential hopefuls, Senator Bernie Sanders, is deploying a new risky strategy to gain support in this first-of-the-nation voting state.
CNN's Ryan Nobles has that for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RYAN NOBLES, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: If the Bernie Sanders team is right --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We believe in grassroots organizing.
NOBLES: -- this is where the Iowa caucus will be won.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello. My name is Denver. I'm volunteering with the Bernie Sanders campaign.
NOBLES: On sidewalks, in the cold. With dedicated volunteers like Denver Foote (PH), one of the many foot soldiers in the 2020 version of the Sanders Revolution.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's for the people, he's by the people. NOBLES: Sanders is back in Iowa this week with a revamped strategy on
full display while he's still drawing big crowds at raucous rallies.
SANDERS: We have a number of challenges.
NOBLES: His campaign, though, has a new more targeted focus highlighted by Sanders himself attending small issue-based forums and town halls, and his field staff organizing new caucus goers around specific issues like health care.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've had cancer before and health care is very important. I have a preexisting condition basically.
NOBLES: The Sanders team is focusing on voters like Sally Bendon (PH). May not traditionally been part of the Iowa caucus process, but had been inspired by the Sanders message because of a personal experience.
It's not the first time a campaign has made turning out new caucus goers a key part of its Iowa strategy. It worked well for Barack Obama in 2008, but the Sanders campaign says its 2020 model is a political leap of faith.
(On camera): Is it in any way, though, a gamble for you to do it this way?
MISTY REBIK, IOWA STATE DIRECTOR, SANDERS 2020 CAMPAIGN: If we're not willing to take risk and expand the electorate, then you're right, it is a gamble. But look, the senator has always been somebody who is willing to gamble a bit and do what was right.
JUDY DOWNS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, POLK COUNTY DEMOCRATIC PARTY: You just show up that day and register as a Democrat.
NOBLES: OK.
(Voice-over): Caucus participation requires commitment. It means spending several hours on a specific night to publicly support a candidate, which is why campaigns traditionally place a premium on those who have reliably caucused in the past.
DOWNS: It's a big ask to bring new people into the system, but if it's definitely a worthy cause and if they can do it successfully, they might win on caucus night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's your name?
NOBLES: For the Sanders team, they say this is about more than a campaign. It's about the next step in a political movement.
REBIK: I don't know if that's risky. I think that's the right thing to do because frankly if we want a White House that represents all people, we've got to talk to all people and they've got to get voted in by all people.
NOBLES (on camera): And the Sanders strategy in Iowa will be on display this week in Iowa. In fact Sanders is planning to spend New Year's Eve in Des Moines. He has a number of events there to start 2020. They don't view this as a deal breaker, even though they believe they can win there. If they don't win in Iowa, Sanders already has plenty of investments in those first four early states as well as the big Super Tuesday states of California and beyond.
Ryan Nobles, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: Thank you, Ryan.
And then there's this. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo may not be leaving the administration to run for a Senate seat after all. National Security adviser Robert O'Brien who we're told is actually on a short list to replace Pompeo if he leaves responded to a question about Pompeo's future this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT O'BRIEN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Look, Mike Pompeo is a fantastic secretary of State. He was one of the president's best picks for the cabinet. He's a friend of mine. I enjoy working for him. I hope he doesn't leave. I love the job I've got now. I get to work with the president every day and I'm very happy sitting where I am and I hope and I expect that Secretary Pompeo will stay.
I spoke with him about this two nights ago. He said he's not running for Senate. He said he's staying as secretary of State.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: Let's bring in Josh Rogin, CNN political analyst and "Washington Post" columnist.
And, Josh, good to see you.
JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Likewise.
SAVIDGE: Earlier this week, you wrote an op-ed that was entitled Trump is already searching for his next secretary of State. Pompeo, that is, has repeatedly that he's running for the Senate and you report that he's told Trump he wants to stay secretary of State. However, at the end of the day, is it really up to Pompeo whether he stays or goes?
ROGIN: Right. Well, it's been Mike Pompeo's consistent line that he is running. He told that to the president and he apparently told that to Robert O'Brien, and he tells that to his staff.
[13:50:01]
At the same time he's been sending mixed signals through his actions, including several trips to Kansas. He went in October to Wichita to tour some factories with Ivanka Trump. In December he had a meeting with donors, GOP donors in London. He started a new Twitter, kind of personal Twitter account with a Kansas farmland banner in the background. So it's understandable why people are confused.
And in that confusion, the competition to replace him has erupted. And President Trump doesn't really know what's going to happen, and so he's been sounding out people about who might replace him. If Pompeo stays, then that competition is simply delayed until the second term if Trump is reelected. But all you have to do is listen to President Trump. He said Mike wants to stay, but if it looks like we're going to lose that Kansas Senate seat, then he might have to change his mind. I think that's exactly where we are.
SAVIDGE: And to be honest, Pompeo isn't the first in this administration to deny reports of their departures.
ROGIN: Exactly.
SAVIDGE: Other we know ultimately have stepped down.
ROGIN: Right.
SAVIDGE: And you pointed out that social media account that opened up. Why do you think that is a clear giveaway, and if what O'Brien says is true, then why else would Pompeo suddenly, you know, create this online presence if he wasn't, in fact, planning to leave?
ROGIN: Right. I mean, I think the easiest explanation that accounts for all his various statements and actions is that he's leaving the door open for a run but leaning against the run. And we know that Senate majority Mitch McConnell -- Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell is pushing Pompeo hard. All right. McConnell doesn't want to lose Kansas. He fears that if former secretary of State of Kansas, Chris Kobak, wins the primary, he could lose the general to a Democrat.
So McConnell is pushing Trump and pushing Pompeo. So far it hasn't worked. But what we can say about Mike Pompeo is that he's keeping himself in the political conversation. And either he is messing with us or he is leaving the door open so he can change his mind later, either way he wants to make sure that if and when he is going to change his mind that, remember, the deadline is not until June 1, which is kind of a long time from now, he'll still have a presence in Kansas and still be in touch with the donors, so he can be telling the truth when he says right now he's not planning on running, and at the same time doing lots of things and sending lots of signals to make sure that if he changes his mind, he'll still have a good chance of winning.
SAVIDGE: Yes. Josh Rogin, thanks very much. Good to see you.
ROGIN: You, too.
SAVIDGE: Up next, is the Trump administration chasing away immigration judges? An alarming number of judges stepping down from the bench.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SAVIDGE: An alarming exodus of immigration judges is adding more pressure to an already overburdened system. And many of the judges are quitting over President Trump's sweeping and often controversial immigration policies.
CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joins us now with more.
Priscilla, thank you for joining us.
[13:55:02]
You recently sat down I know, you know, with former immigration judges about this very issue. What did they say to you?
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, look, each of them had their own set of reasons as to why they were leaving their posts, but there was one thing that really tied them all together, and that was frustration over policy changes that they said chipped away at their authority. And that frustration really did come through in the interviews that I had with them.
One judge called it intolerable, another judge told me that she just couldn't be a part of it anymore, it being the destruction of the immigration court system, and another judge just called it a toxic environment. So these policy changes just really started to wear down on them.
And I want to note, change is not unusual for immigration judges. They are employees of the Justice Department, and so they have to adapt to the policies and priorities of each administration. But under the Trump administration, policy changes, they said, really curtailed their authority and their discretion. And that affected how they handled their dockets. And they have big dockets.
The immigration court system as a whole has a backup of more than one million immigration cases. And so this accumulation of policy changes for many really, to them, just didn't rub them the right way, and in one case one judge told me it was, quote, "insulting." And it's what compelled them ultimately to leave the Justice Department earlier than they really would have anticipated.
SAVIDGE: And so what is the Department of Justice saying about this?
ALVAREZ: So in a statement to me, they said that they, quote, "continually plan for attrition," and that they, quote, "minimize the operational impact of immigration judges, separations and retirements." So they recognize that judges have left, but they also note that they're hiring. In fact, this month they hired 28 new immigration judges, and that brought them to a record high work force of more than 460.
But what I found surprising in my interviews with former immigration judges is that they still carry guilt for leaving despite knowing that there is more hiring happening because they're afraid of the people who may replace them because they felt, in my conversations with them, that they were fair when they were listening to cases. SAVIDGE: Have you heard anything from the White House on this?
ALVAREZ: I haven't, but the Trump administration has been clear and President Trump has been clear. They recognize there is a big backlog of cases. And President Trump has said that it's frustrating because when people have to wait for their cases, they wait within the United States. So they can reside in the United States for years until they find out whether they can stay here or whether they have to be ordered removed. So it has been a point of tension and it's why the Trump administration has worked hard, and they say in statements, to increase their hiring.
SAVIDGE: And obviously if the numbers of judges goes down, the cases just simply stack up.
Priscilla Alvarez, thank you very much for bringing this to our attention.
ALVAREZ: Thank you.
SAVIDGE: And we have much more just ahead in the NEWSROOM and it all starts right now.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
SAVIDGE: Hello. Thanks for joining me. I'm Martin Savidge in for Fredricka Whitfield.
We're going to begin this hour with more breaking news and bloodshed at another place of worship today. Three people are now in critical condition after a shooting at a church in White Settlement, Texas. We're told the shooter is among those injured. This was at the West Freeway Church of Christ. It's located just miles away from Fort Worth, and we'll have more on that in a moment.
We are also following the breaking news on an attack on a Jewish holiday celebration. A 37-year-old New York man has made his first court appearance. He's now being held on $5 million bond. Grafton Thomas is charged with five counts of attempted murder after a mass stabbing at a Hanukkah party last night outside New York City.
Witnesses say the suspect walked in to the home of an orthodox rabbi in Rockland County, pulled out a long knife and stabbed five people in the house which was full of more than 100 worshippers who had gathered to light the Hanukkah candle.
CNN has obtained exclusive images of the aftermath and I will give you this warning the pictures are graphic. All of the victims are Hasidic Jews. Two are in critical condition. A witness describes the moment the suspect arrived at the home and began the bloody rampage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOHN: I saw him walk in by the door. I asked who was coming in in middle of the night with an umbrella. While I was saying that he pulled it out from the thing, and he started to run into the big room which was on the left side. And I threw him tables and chairs that he should get out of here. And he injured a guy, was a (INAUDIBLE) guy. He was bleeding here, bleeding in his hand, all over.
[14:00:00]
