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NYT: John Bolton, Mark Esper, Mike Pompeo Tried To Get Trump To Reverse Course On Ukraine Aid; NYT: E-mails Show Mulvaney's Key Role In Halting Ukraine Aid; Iran Sends Warning After U.S. Airstrikes Hit Iran-Backed Militia In Iraq & Syria; Rep. John Lewis (D-GA) Has Stage 4 Pancreatic Cancer; Charges Pending Against Teens In Tessa Majors Murder. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired December 30, 2019 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
RYAN NOBLES, CNN HOST: Pompeo set to travel to Ukraine this Friday, just days before Congress reconvenes ahead of a pending impeachment trial.
Kristen Holmes with me now from West Palm Beach, in the area where the president is on vacation.
The timing of Pompeo's trip is curious to say the least, what are officials saying?
KRISTIN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Curious is one word for it. Pompeo will be the highest-ranking official to visit Kiev. Obviously, raising a couple of antennas here, given the fact that he will be sitting down with President Zelensky.
And one thing to note is that the administration is brushing this off. It's a routine trip being done for the U.S. to show support to Ukraine. Again, raising some red flags given the timing here -- Ryan?
NOBLES: "The New York Times," this report out this morning, a big important report. What are the big takeaways here? Has the White House responded yet?
HOLMES: No response from the White House. But there are two big takeaways. One of them surrounding the chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney. It paints him as closer to the withholding of the aid than previously thought.
It's done through this description by the "New York Times" of emails between Mulvaney and one of his top aides. Sent a week after President Trump first requested to freeze that aid.
Mick Mulvaney writes to his staffer, saying, where did we land on this, where are we, is it even possible. The staffer writes back, essentially, if we decide to do this, expect Congress to become unhinged. That's a direct quote.
That's not what happened. It was an understatement there. One big takeaway is the other being how high the division went within
the administration. We knew that there were a lot of people who were concerned about this, who raised red flags.
But talked about that meeting in August, first time we heard of this. This is his first top official, national security advisor, John Bolton, secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, secretary of defense, Mark Esper, sitting down with him and telling him not to do this, not convincing him.
And you really have to take note here. These are his top officials and he's still defying them after the meeting.
NOBLES: Kristen, does a report like this compel some of these Republicans Senators in the middle of the road to think maybe we do need to hear from some of these folks during the Senate impeachment trial? That remains to be seen.
Kristen Holmes, live, traveling with the president in south Florida. We appreciate it.
Let's talk more now with Josh Rogin, CNN political analyst. He's a columnist for the "Washington Post."
Let's first talk about this trip to Ukraine from Mike Pompeo. This comes as the president's personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, continues to press Ukrainian officials for information on the Bidens.
We should point out, that's not done yet. That could benefit Trump politically.
It comes days before Congress convenes to hammer out details for the Senates pending impeachment trial. It seems at the very least the timing of this trip is awkward, right?
What message is the White House sending here?
JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think what you see is this bifurcated two track Ukraine policy that got us into this whole mess in the first place is still very much alive and well.
We have Rudy Giuliani traveling to Kiev, trying to dig up dirt on Joe Biden and Hunter Biden. And Mike Pompeo trying to do the work of diplomacy. The Trump administration hasn't made an effort to square those two things.
The president's lawyer, the secretary of state. Who are the Ukrainians supposed to listen to? Who are they supposed to believe speaks for the president? If we don't know, they don't know.
If we had to guess, the reason Pompeo was going, to reaffirm the core of the U.S./Ukraine relationship. Or it's a grip and grin. It's going to get up there with the president of Ukraine, they're going to smile for the cameras. Get them to say something like everybody is going well, thanks for all the aid, everybody is hunk-dory.
That will be folded back into the president's defense to claim that everything is fine, there's nothing to see here.
Basically, that confuses the situation even more. And until the president of the United States decides who is his envoy to the Ukraine, is it Rudy Giuliani or Mike Pompeo, think that confusion will continue.
NOBLES: Or perhaps an ambassador to be named later --
(CROSSTALK)
ROGIN: The ambassadors got shoved away just in time for Pompeo's trip.
NOBLES: Usually, there's a person that has that responsibility.
(CROSSTALK)
NOBLES: -- in the administration.
Let's talk now about this "New York Times" story from this morning. We know in late August, the defense secretary who was a national security officer at the time, met with President Trump. They tried, but failed, to convince him that holding back that aid was against the interest of the United States.
The big Republican defense on all this, Josh, is when Trump said do us a favor in July in the phone call, he was actually talking about the U.S.'s best interest.
How does that square with what we know about this meeting in the Oval Office with three members of President Trump's cabinet? Who, we should point out, at that time, were all pretty loyal to President Trump.
ROGIN: It's just another example of the president's entire national security team going to the president and telling him that something he's doing is reckless and not in our national security interests.
[14:35:04]
Unfortunately, we have a ton of these examples over the last three years. Jake Tapper reported there was a similar meeting in Bedminster days before that, where Pompeo, Esper and Bolton tried to convince him to do it and he wouldn't do it.
I think the biggest revelation in the "New York Times'" reporting was what went on inside OMB, and between the White House and the Pentagon as early as June, leading all the way up to when aide was finally released in September.
Basically, what you had is Mick Mulvaney, chief of staff and OMB director, coming up with all sorts of reasons to delay the aid, and using all sorts of bureaucratic tactics to delay the aid, and calling on his lawyers to come up with creative and species reasons to justify holding up the aid. While the rest of the system was like whiskey, tango, fox trot. Finally, when they released it, they tried to come up with another
explanation that even people inside the administration didn't believe.
So we knew a lot about the sort of three amigos, Sondland, Volker and Rudy, doing their mischief on their side. Now we know a lot more about what Mulvaney, duffy and Blair were doing on this side.
If you put them together, though not directly related to each other, they come together at one point, and that's President Trump. That's why it's so crucial in terms of this impeachment inquiry.
NOBLES: Whether or not they actually testify still seems unlikely at this point.
ROGIN: You would think it would be a good idea.
NOBLES: Right. If you're trying to get to the bottom of it, you would think --
(CROSSTALK)
ROGIN: If you are, that's right.
NOBLES: That may not be the end motivation for some of the players involved.
Josh Rogin, thank you for your insight. We appreciate it.
ROGIN: Thank you.
NOBLES: The United States on defense. What's next after Sunday's airstrikes on targets in Iraq and Syria? The reason for the attacks and how they could complicate foreign diplomacy.
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[14:41:07]
NOBLES: Iran is threatening to retaliate after U.S. forces conducted airstrikes against five facilities in Iraq and Syria. The Pentagon says those facilities are tied to an Iranian-backed militia and are blaming them on a series of attacks on joint Iraq/U.S. bases that house American forces. A U.S. civilian contractor was killed in Friday's rocket attack.
CNN Global Affairs Analyst, David Rohde, the executive director for the "New Yorker," Web site. He joins me now to discuss what's happening in that part of the world.
David, the Pentagon blaming this military for a series of attacks in that region. When you look at the recent history there, Iran shooting down the U.S. drone, attack on a Saudi oil facility, do you think this situation will continue to escalate?
ROHDE: I think it very well could. The pattern has been that when the Trump administration challenges Iran, Iran pushes back. What does Iran do in retaliation?
I'm not sure this will help the administration achieve its goals. There's been protests going on in Iran, economic protests by average people. The administration wants that.
When you carry out a military strike, I think it lets the Iranian regime play to nationalism and paint the U.S. as the aggressor. I'm not sure how this is going to play out.
NOBLES: The next stage, Iran is threatening to retaliate in some way, shape or form, what could that retaliation look like.
ROHDE: I think that could go to what happened earlier this year. These were the attacks on various oil tankers in the Persian Gulf. Those immediately caused oil prices to rise. That's the pressure point that Iran can push on.
There was a separate strike on Saudi oil facilities that surprised many in terms of how accurate it was and how far inside Saudi Arabia it was.
That is where I think they can push back. They can impact the global economy, possibly the American economy.
Again, this could prove to be a mistake where you're pushing Iran to push back, they will push back. They have a pattern of doing that.
NOBLES: This involves Iraq. Tis continues to be a chaotic part of the world. The prime minister called this a, quote, "violation of the Iraq sovereignty." A concern, Iraq may be too close to Iran. What does that tell you? Is it clear?
ROHDE: There's a lot of pressure on leaders there. There's been protests in Iraq as well. There are a certain number of Iraqis who push for the U.S. to leave the country. They have, you know, terrible experience with the U.S. invasion. This could lead to calls for that to happen.
Legal speaking, American forces are in Iraq to fight ISIS. They have no legal justification for carrying out these attacks. By carrying out these attacks, they've put Iraqi leaders, who may be pro-American, in an awkward position.
A foreign nation is carrying out attacks inside Iraq, and the leaders of Iraq seem to have no control over those strikes.
NOBLES: David Rohde, thank you for your insight. We appreciate it.
ROHDE: Thank you.
[14:44:27]
NOBLES: He fought for freedom and equality. Now Congressman John Lewis is fighting pancreatic cancer. New information about his diagnosis and the road ahead when we come back.
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NOBLES: Legendary civil rights icon and veteran Georgia Congressman John Lewis shocked the world with his stunning announcement Sunday that he's been diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer.
The 70-year-old congressman said he's in the biggest battle of his life, but he will not resign from office.
He was diagnosed following a routine medical visit and will undergo treatment.
Former President's Barack Obama and Bill Clinton along with countless others have expressed an overwhelming amount of support and prayers.
Elizabeth Cohen, senior CNN medical correspondent, joins me now.
Elizabeth, pancreatic cancer has been the third-leading cause of death from cancer in the U.S. Lewis is 79. What does a diagnosis like this mean for someone of his age?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Ryan, this is a difficult diagnosis. And age makes it worse, but it's a difficult diagnosis for anyone.
Let's take a look at what the statistics tell us. We know that Representative Lewis has stage 4 pancreatic cancer. That's the most advanced stage. He's shared that with everyone.
[14:50:08]
The average survival for someone with this cancer is only one year after nose is. Stage four means it's spread to other parts of the body. Sometimes to the lungs, the bones, the liver.
This is a difficult diagnosis. The treatment for it can be difficult to endure. But the representatives have said that he, god willing, will be back on the front lines to fight.
NOBLES: Cancer disproportionately affects African-Americans. Do we know why that is?
COHEN: You know, the statistics are consistent across various kind of cancers. African-Americans are more likely to be diagnosed with cancer and less likely to be successfully treated.
There are many reasons. Sometimes it's genetic, for example, with prostate cancer or triple negative breast cancer, genetics plays a role. Economics play a role.
When you don't have access to care, that means you're going to have a worse outcome. There's evidence that doctors can have racial biases. The care they're going to get is not going to be as good. All those factors put together lead to those statistics.
The good news, the disparities, the differences between white people and black people, they're getting less significant the difference is getting smaller. That's a good thing.
NOBLES: The congressman mentioned that recent medical advanced have made this cancer treatable. Tell us about those advances.
COHEN: About 10 years ago, you came up with a new chemotherapy. It did improve survival. However, just to be clear eyed -- And I use that term because Representative Lewis uses that term. These new kinds of chemotherapy increase survival by months, not years. They are better than what we used to have, but still it's hardly the treatment that anyone wants.
Doctors are really fighting to do better than this.
NOBLES: Elizabeth Cohen, he is obviously beloved by people from both sides of the political aisle. Everyone waiting anxiously as he attacks this next big fight of his life.
Elizabeth, we appreciate it.
Former President Jimmy Carter returned to the public spotlight Sunday for the first time since he had brain surgery last November. President Carter along with his wife attended Sunday services at their home church in Plains, Georgia. The couple sat in their usual front pew. Carter did not teach his regular Sunday school class.
He was released from the hospital just before Thanksgiving after surgery to relieve pressure on his brain following a series of falls. Carter is a liver and brain cancer survivor. He's 95, and the oldest living former U.S. president.
It's been nearly a month since the murder of college student, Tessa Majors, in New York. And the investigation is far from over. Why two boys who were questioned in the case haven't been charged.
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[14:57:33]
NOBLES: CNN has learned charges could be pending against two 14-year- old boys who were questioned and released in the stabbing death of a New York college student.
Barnard college freshman, Tessa Majors, was killed December 11th. A third teen has already been charged with second-degree murder. He told police he and two other people went to the park to rob someone.
CNN's Jean Casarez is here with the latest.
Jean, police say this investigation remains active, even though no one's been charged. What's the latest.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. They say it's very active.
"The New York Times" is reporting that police are waiting for the results of forensic testing, DNA. They believe once they get those results, charges against all three of these teens can be filed. There's two 14-year-olds and one 13-year-old. CNN reported last
Thursday that one of the 14-year-olds was taken into custody. His attorney was there at the police precinct. And there was a court order from a Manhattan judge to obtain forensic testing on his person. That was done. So we know that was done.
And the fact is, that if they have that, they have swabbed her body, the inside of her mouth, her clothes, and also clothes they had of the suspects, what they could obtain. Once those forensic results are in, if you get matches, prosecutors may believe they can prove this beyond a reasonable doubt.
NOBLES: What does the police commissioner say on this?
CASAREZ: He said they're working on the investigation. Remember, she was stabbed to death December 11th, so it's been a while. He said they're working hand in hand with the Manhattan prosecutors. They all want the charges to stand up in court.
NOBLES: Jean Casarez, thank you for that update. We appreciate it.
Hello. I'm Ryan Nobles, in for today for Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN. Thanks so much for joining me.
What was supposed to be a celebration of Hanukkah became a scene of unthinkable horror this weekend after a man stabbed several people gathered for a party at a New York rabbis home. Today, he was officially charged with federal hate crimes.
One of the survivors spoke to CNN about his efforts to help others, from small children to a senior citizen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:59:46]
JOSEF GLUCK, ATTACK SURVIVOR: There were kids in there so I decided to run back in. I came back in through the front door, through the kitchen. I heard people screaming, "hide, hide." One baby was pushed into a coat closet.
There was a boy, 5 or 6, 7-year-old boy hiding beneath a pile of coats on the floor. I saw that and I said, let's go, come out, come out.
