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Rudy Giuliani Says He's Willing to Testify in Senate Impeachment Trial; Trump Says Certain E-Cigarette Flavors Will Come Off the Market; Interview with Senator Michael Bennet (D-CO); Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired January 01, 2020 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PERSONAL ATTORNEY: Give summations, or I'd do what I do best. I'd try the case. I'd love to try the case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: The president not asking him to do that yet.

Joining me now to discuss, former Democratic congressman Joe Crowley, and CNN political commentator, former Republican congressman, Charlie Dent.

Good morning. Happy New Year to both of you.

JOE CROWLEY, FORMER DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN: Thank you, Jim. To you as well, and Charlie.

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Happy New Year, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Charlie, let me begin with you. As Republican here, do you think the president wants Rudy Giuliani to testify in the Senate?

(LAUGHTER)

DENT: You know, I think the president wants a circus. He wants a show trial. So I suspect that if he's going to have any witnesses, he might as well have Rudy Giuliani because Rudy at this point knows not to say anything and he will defend the president. I don't think that's a particularly smart strategy for the president, but given where the president is on impeachment, he seems to want to have a bit of a circus. And I think Rudy could help provide one for him.

SCIUTTO: Joe, you have a number of years of experience in Congress. You have heard from a couple of Republican senators now. It's a very thin margin in the Senate for Republican control. One to say they're uncomfortable with the majority leader's coordination with the White House but also expressed some openness to witnesses in the trial. Do you see an agreement as possible between Democrats and Republicans

to call witnesses, whether it be a Giuliani or some of the key senior administration officials directly involved in those decisions such as John Bolton?

CROWLEY: Well, I do think that there's a possibility. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it, Jim. I think Mitch McConnell has made it very clear he wants a swift and quick so-called trial where the outcome is already predetermined. I do think the American people want more than that. I think Senator Murkowski, for instance, has expressed that, as have others, that that in and of itself is not acceptable.

But, look, I think that Charlie is right. That there probably will be an attempt by this administration to create as much of a circus atmosphere as possible, to create even more distractions from what the president was accused to have done.

SCIUTTO: Joe, I wonder, if I could just ask you what you think of the Speaker Pelosi's strategy in terms of, at least for now, holding back on delivering those articles of impeachment as she gets a better view, her aides argue, of what the rules of the road will be during a Senate trial. Is that a smart strategy?

CROWLEY: I think whether you agree with Speaker Pelosi or not, I think -- in terms of the impeachment process, I think everyone has to give her high marks in terms of strategy. She is known to be reckoned with. She's a very, very tough person and understands what's at stake and I think that she'll use every tool at her disposal to ensure, as best she can, that a fair and open trial in the Senate takes place.

SCIUTTO: Charlie Dent, of course, when that trial starts, the chief justice of the Supreme Court, John Roberts, will play a role. He presides over the trial. And in his annual report on the state of the judiciary, he had some comments there. I want to quote them because I want to ask you who you believe these comments were directed towards.

He wrote, "We should reflect on our duty to judge without fear or favor, deciding each matter with humility, integrity and dispatch." Of course, he's talking about the court there. But might he also be directing that at senators who will be in effect jurors in a trial of the president?

DENT: Yes, I think that's fair, Jim. I do think that maybe Chief Justice Roberts is sending a message to some of these senators who, quite frankly, have been running their mouths a bit too much about impeachment. I think Senator Collins has it right when she says that these members should be talking less and preparing themselves to -- you know, to weigh the evidence and reserve judgment until they see the evidence and hear all the facts.

So I think maybe the chief justice is sending that message out there. He's a very shrewd man, and I think it's good advice.

SCIUTTO: Joe Crowley, apply your political gut, if you can, on the year 2020. We're going to have a Senate trial likely in the month of January, although both sides talking about something relatively quick, done before the primaries, done, Republicans have been saying, before the president's State of the Union.

When November, when the first week of November rolls around, the first Tuesday, and voters are going to the ballot box, is impeachment going to be a voting issue for Democrats and Republicans?

CROWLEY: I think -- I think it will be -- it will certainly be an issue for everyone amongst other issues, but it certainly will be a very prominent issue in the election. I think that's unavoidable, quite frankly. And I think that's why you're seeing even the number itself hover around 50 percent of the population are in favor or not of impeachment.

I do think the recent revelations of the OMB, the Office of Management and Budget through the folate of information that came out is going to add fuel to this fire, quite frankly.

[09:35:04]

Whether a trial actually takes place or not, Jim, that's the big if as you mentioned earlier in terms of the strategy that Leader Pelosi -- Speaker Pelosi has put forward so far. And we'll see just where it leads.

SCIUTTO: Joe and Charlie, nice to have you both on. Some wisdom.

CROWLEY: Thanks, Jim. Thanks, Charlie.

SCIUTTO: Some wisdom and happy family -- Happy New Year to your families.

DENT: Happy New Year, Joe. Happy New Year.

CROWLEY: To all you as well.

SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, on January 1st, 2020, President Trump cracking down on flavored tobacco. But is he going as far as he originally promised to go?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:40:41]

SCIUTTO: There's a new target for the Trump administration. Flavored e-cigarettes. At least some of them. The president says a temporary ban is coming on some flavored products in an effort to increase safety and tackle, in particular, underage vaping. More than five million middle and high school students admitted to using e-cigarettes in 2019. This according to the CDC.

CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins me now.

So, Elizabeth, the president trying to strike some sort of balance here because he's been concerned, he's been advised there'd be political consequences. A lot of supporters like vaping. So he's banned everything but menthol. Explain the reasoning here and the effect.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, it's interesting, Jim. What we heard from the president back in September was the children, the children, we must protect the children, and now what he's saying is, yes, we need to protect the children but we need to protect this industry. It's unclear why he is so invested in protecting the vaping industry, but he's very upfront about it.

Let's take a listen to what he told reporters last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to protect our families, we're going to protect our children, and we're going to protect the industry. The flavors will come off. They're going to be checked. We want to make it. People have died from this. They've died from vaping. We think we understand why. But we're doing a very exhaustive examination and hopefully everything will be back on the market very, very shortly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: So, Jim, that last part is confusing. A lot of people. We're going to have everything back on the market very, very shortly? What does that mean? Maybe that's part of Trump wanting to protect the industry. He says it's become a very big industry. He said we're going to take care of the industry.

So, in September, he said flavors will come off. And now he's saying, hmm, things will be put back on. Very confusing.

SCIUTTO: Well, we also know that he's been advised that he would pay a political price for this because many of his supporters use them.

Explain here. The issue, of course, is some of these flavors, strawberry, et cetera, they're very attractive to kids. That leads to teen vaping or even vaping by younger kids. It's alarming, but you have the argument on the other side that vaping, at least most vaping, healthier than traditional tobacco cigarettes. And there's concern that if you take these off the market, right, that people won't have that option.

Tell us how they are trying to strike that balance there or how the health experts recommend you strike that balance.

COHEN: Right. So health experts have actually been really quite clear on this. They say take out the tutti-frutti and the mango passion fruit and all those sort of cutesy flavors. Leave on the tobacco ones because you're absolutely right, Jim. You know, regular cigarettes, traditional cigarettes, you're better off vaping. But you don't need all the cutesy flavors. An adult who wants to stop smoking will vape tobacco.

It's the fun cutesy flavors that are attracting the children and the numbers are really disturbing. Let's take a look at them. Between -- in 2017, only 11 percent of teens regularly vaped. 2019, 27 percent. And we know that those numbers are probably, you know, going to keep going up. That's a lot of children vaping. So you don't need these cutesy flavors on the market. He said he would take them off. Why hasn't he?

SCIUTTO: Yes. It's a fair question. And it's not just the flavors, right? It's even the design of the handsets that meant to look like kind of technology, et cetera.

COHEN: That's right.

SCIUTTO: I mean, my kids, they talk about it in school because --

COHEN: Right.

SCIUTTO: You know, it's exploding.

Elizabeth Cohen, great to have you on.

COHEN: Right.

SCIUTTO: From protests in Iraq to Kim Jong-un threatening to resume nuclear testing, the Trump administration heading into an election year facing two foreign policy crises. We're going to speak about that with a Democratic senator and presidential candidate, Michael Bennet. That's coming up.

[09:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: The first day of 2020. The president already facing two major foreign policy tests. Of course, an election year as well. For a second day, protesters rallying outside the U.S. embassy in Baghdad. Democratic Senator Chris Murphy ripping the president's policy saying, quote, "He has rendered America impotent in the Middle East. No one fears us, no one listens to us."

Here with me now, Democratic senator and presidential candidate, Michael Bennet. He's a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Senator, we appreciate you taking time this morning and wish you a Happy New Year.

SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D-CO), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Happy New Year, Jim. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: So let's begin, if we can first, with your Democratic colleague's criticism there, Chris Murphy, saying that the president's policy in the Middle East has made America weak in effect. No one fears us. No one listens to us. Do you agree?

BENNET: Yes, I do agree. I'm sad to say it's true. I think Donald Trump has proven over and over again that he is the weakest foreign policy president of our lifetime or of my lifetime anyway. And we're seeing this play out in Iran where basically, since day one, he's played into the hands of the hardliners in Iran when he ripped away the Iran deal without any replacement, stepped back from a negotiated agreement that our allies supported, the rest of the world had supported, and had nothing to replace it with.

[09:50:13]

And then he's been provocative and provocative, and the Iranian regime is odious and malevolent and terrible. But we all know that. And so why would we want to make matters worse by stoking the hardliners' position in Iran? It's completely inexplicable except by the president's complete lack of a coherent strategy and I think innate weakness of this foreign policy which we've seen not just in the Middle East but with respect to Russia and China, and certainly North Korea.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask about North Korea because, of course, as you know, Kim Jong-un threatening both a new strategic weapon, possibly the resumption of missile or nuclear testing. This after three, count them, three now, face-to-face summits between Trump and Kim in which Trump has placed a lot of personal value in and personal and diplomatic capital.

Based on those comments and those threats, as well as the intel community's assessment that North Korea's nuclear problem continues to advance, has Trump's North Korea policy failed?

BENNET: It's an utter failure, and that's what's so pitiful about it, is that our intelligence agency week after week after week, our intelligence agencies have been saying Kim is continuing with his nuclear weapon program. Donald Trump, on the other hand, is jetting from country to country, telling the American people by tweet, don't worry about it, you can sleep easy at night. These are his words.

There is no North Korean threat anymore. Kim and I are in love, we're writing love letters back to each other. You wouldn't believe it in a movie. But that's been the president of the United States who for the last three years has basically given Kim cover to pursue his nuclear program which he's done. To no surprise of anybody.

I mean, nobody should be waking up this morning and saying to themselves, oh, my goodness, he's pursuing his nuclear program? He's been doing it all along. Our intelligence agencies have been completely consistent that that's been the fact.

SCIUTTO: As you know, you will soon sit as a juror in a Senate trial, a juror in effect of a sitting president of the U.S. The question of witnesses still up in the air. To your knowledge, are there negotiations between the Democratic and Republican leadership in the Senate to call witnesses before the Senate?

BENNET: Well, Chuck Schumer asked for four witnesses and documents related to their testimony, and at least as of yesterday Mitch McConnell had not yet responded to that. So everybody in the Senate is waiting to hear what his conclusion is.

I think the American people by a margin of more than 70 percent think we should have witnesses and think that we should have documents. Remember, these are witnesses that did not testify in the House hearing. So even though they were able to present and provide evidence from witnesses that were willing to disobey the president, who were willing to come testify to Congress, American patriots, every last one of them, these foreign service officers, these are high-level people in the Trump administration who the American people have not yet heard from, and who they need to hear from.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Your fellow competitor for the White House, Joe Biden, has said that he would obey after some confusion that he would obey a Senate subpoena. As a Democratic senator, would you support in negotiations with Republicans, perhaps, OK, call Joe Biden as long as you also call John Bolton, Pompeo, senior Trump administration officials who were directly involved in carrying out the president's policy on Ukraine?

BENNET: I think that we should have a negotiation about who the witnesses should be. It's hard for me to see how Joe Biden would have any relevance to the question of whether Donald Trump tried to extort a foreign leader or, in fact, extorted a foreign leader for his political benefit. I don't think the vice president would have any direct knowledge on that.

But if there are other witnesses that the White House would like to have be there, that would be interesting to me. You know, the president has had every chance to put witnesses in place that would exonerate him, and he hasn't done it.

SCIUTTO: Final question. 2020 race, recently you said your New Year's resolution, fitting for today, is to come in the top three in the New Hampshire primary. Right now as you know, in the polls you're at 1 percent. Joe Biden at 20 percent. Others ahead of you. If you don't make the top three in New Hampshire, will you leave the race?

BENNET: Well, I'll reach that conclusion after the primary's over. I've said, Jim, from the very beginning I was going to be in this race until people started to cast their ballots because I think it is so important that we nominate somebody who can beat Donald Trump. This is not going to be an easy race. And I'm the only candidate in the race that's ever won a national election in a swing state.

I've done it twice. I've got a record I think that will not just unite the Democratic base but some of the nine million people who had voted twice for Barack Obama and once for Donald Trump. So, you know, New Hampshire is farther away from making up its mind today than they were six weeks ago or six months ago or a year ago because they're trying to figure out who can beat Donald Trump.

[09:55:08]

I think that's the right question to ask, and I hope they conclude that I'm the answer to that question.

SCIUTTO: Senator Michael Bennet, we wish you luck. We wish you Happy New Year to you and your family.

BENNET: Thanks, Jim. Happy New Year. Thank you. SCIUTTO: Thank you.

BENNET: To you, as well.

SCIUTTO: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: As the new year begins, just devastating scenes in Australia as wildfires kill seven people in just the last 24 hours. Some of them trying to flee their homes. Crews are fighting the worst wildfires the country has seen in decades. Some 2500 firefighters battling more than 100 brush fires across the country. More than 12 million acres of land have been burned --

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