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Protesters Clear Out After Attacking U.S. Embassy In Baghdad; Kim Jong-un Planning To Unveil What He Calls New Strategic Weapons; Giuliani Says He Would Testify At Senate Impeachment Trial. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired January 01, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: So the Pope was making his way to the nativity scene at the center of Vatican City when this incident happened and Pope Francis later used his New Year's message to denounce violence against women.

That woman we should say has not been identified. That is it for me. Alex Marquardt continues our coverage right now.

[14:00:22]

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN HOST: Good afternoon, I'm Alex Marquardt. Happy New Year. Brooke Baldwin deservedly has the day off. Welcome to a special holiday edition of CNN NEWSROOM.

We're going to start with President Trump kicking off 2020 facing two immediate global crises. The first, in Iraq where Iranian-backed protesters are now retreating after violently attacking the U.S. Embassy in the capital of Baghdad. But that tense standoff is far from over.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announcing that he is going to be postponing a highly anticipated trip abroad this week. That one included a stop in Ukraine in order to monitor the ongoing situation.

Now earlier today, U.S. Marines firing off teargas canisters as demonstrators for the second day in a row set fires and tried to scale the compounds walls.

Right now, U.S. soldiers and Marines keeping watch over the Embassy. The President ordering more U.S. troops in the region, warning that if things escalate and war with Iran happens, it would quote, "go very quickly."

Then there's North Korea, Kim Jong-un no longer committing to limiting the development of nuclear weapons. Now, planning to unveil what he calls new strategic weapons.

So let's start first with Baghdad where we can find our senior international correspondent, Arwa Damon. Arwa, these protesters have retreated. We've seen video of that, but this really does highlight significant issues and concerns about what may happen next.

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It really does, Alex. Look, we were down there a short while ago and it's quite surprising and shocking that we were able to still go through all the checkpoints.

And this is an area where normally you either need an escort or you need to have the proper badge to be able to get into. But the fact that these protesters were able to just waltz through to a certain degree, attack the U.S. Embassy over the course of about 24 hours, setting things on fire, attempting to breach the walls does go to the very core of a number of very complex problems here.

First of all, let's take a look at who these protesters are. They're not your normal ordinary protesters. They are members of or supporters of this paramilitary unit that's called the Popular Mobilization Force.

It is made up of a number of former Iraqi Shia militias who have been historically backed, armed, funded, trained by Iran during the U.S. occupation of Iraq and it was one of these groups that was the target of those U.S. strikes on Sunday.

So when this force went through, in the words of one Iraqi Security Forces member who we spoke to earlier today, outside of the Embassy, he said, what were we supposed to do? To actually try to stop them potentially could have escalated the situation into the kind of bloodbath that they would not have been able to potentially dial back.

Now, while we were down there, we also ran into the Minister of Interior, who said, oh, our forces are here now, we're protecting the embassy. And when we asked him, well, where were they for the last 24 hours? He claimed that it took them quite some time to rally the troops.

And then of course, you have Kata'ib Hezbollah itself, the group that was the target of those U.S. strikes on Sunday. Their spokesperson saying that they had decided to finally withdraw because they said America had received their message. And he said that this was not over just yet.

They were going to be keeping an eye on what's happening in Iraqi Parliament, giving Parliament a chance to within the Iraqi legal framework, do whatever it needs to do to fulfill Kata'ib Hezbollah's demand and that is for the Americans to leave.

MARQUARDT: And those demonstrators claiming this as a victory as they did leave. We'll see what happens next. Arwa Damon in the Iraqi capital of Baghdad. Thanks very much.

So let's get the perspective from back here in the U.S., with me now our CNN White House correspondent Boris Sanchez and former senior advisor for the National Security Council under President Obama, Sam Vinograd.

Boris, I want to go first to you. President Trump, as these protests were sparked directly blamed Iran for them. We've now heard from the Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. He tweeted at President Trump saying that Trump can't do anything. The President had tweeted that Iran would pay a big price. Where do

things stand, Boris? What is the White House saying now about what could happen next?

[14:05:02]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Alex, so the White House is telling us that they're closely monitoring the situation. Officials telling us that they were very concerned that they could see an escalation of hostilities going into the first day of the New Year.

They are a little bit relieved that so far, things have tamped down compared to yesterday. They have put a lot of faith in those Iraqi leaders to protect U.S. personnel and property.

The President though with his rhetoric, really walking a fine line here. Last night at a Christmas Eve party at Mar-a-Lago, making clear that he wants peace, that he doesn't want conflict, but then reverting back to what we saw earlier in the day.

And that tweet you mentioned, saying that he's not warning Iran, he is threatening them, adding that any conflict with Iran would not last very long, that it would be a decisive victory for the United States -- Alex.

MARQUARDT: Boris, I want to ask you about this other news that just came in. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo delaying this trip that included that stop in Ukraine that was going to be a show of solidarity with President Zelensky in the wake of the Ukraine scandal. What more do we know about why the Secretary postponed this trip?

SANCHEZ: Yes, the State Department making clear that this is about having all hands on deck to respond to the situation in Iraq. For some time, we'd seen a bit of a slowdown in the escalation between the United States and Iran. But now that it's heating up again, the implications could be massive.

The President has repeatedly said that he does not want to engage in a major conflict in the Middle East. He has criticized the war in Iraq. He has talked about withdrawing troops from Afghanistan, but a conflict with Iran would require a dedication of immense blood and treasure from the United States in the Middle East.

So having Secretary Pompeo close by is a big deal for the President going into what is a very delicate situation -- Alex.

MARQUARDT: And someone else who has commented on what's going on in Baghdad is the State Department Special Representative for Iran, Brian Hook. He was on CNN earlier today and said this. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN HOOK, STATE DEPARTMENT SPECIAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR IRAN: Forty years ago, they stormed our Embassy, and then here we are 40 years later, and they're directing these terrorist groups to then attack our Embassy. So the President took very decisive action and put in place the

necessary force protections and for our people, our diplomats in our Embassy, and it was the right thing to do. And today the situation is much better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: That reference to 40 years ago, of course, is the storming of the Embassy in Tehran. Sam, when it comes to Iran, especially now, there's always a risk of escalation. How significantly higher do you think that risk is now?

SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, the risk is higher, not only because we're engaged in a war of words, which is certainly not helpful between the President and the Iranian regime.

The risk of escalation on the ground remains quite high and that's why everything that comes out of the President's mouth or Twitter feed right now needs to be so carefully vetted.

We have ongoing threats to our personnel at the embassy in Baghdad, likely ongoing threats as well to our embassy in Beirut, I would imagine and throughout the region.

And we have seen over the past few years, Alex, that Iran retains the ability to launch really asymmetric attacks on land, sea and in the air via proxies and directly. This is their asymmetric advantage. They are willing to do things that we are not willing to do, like attack civilians.

That threat will continue, and the question is, as we maintain the maximum pressure campaign, as Iran does feel cornered, because of sanctions that the United States has re-imposed, what off ramp we are giving them while we engage in this militarization of the Middle East?

We can send tens of thousands of more troops to the Middle East, and the President and Secretary of State Pompeo are wise to deploy more assets to Baghdad right now. But that is not going to stop Iran's ability to continue these asymmetric attacks.

MARQUARDT: Yes, I want to talk about that. Of course, every U.S. Embassy around the world is guarded by a contingent of U.S. Marines. But last night, President Trump ordered the deployment of 750 more soldiers from the U.S. Army's 82nd Airborne Division. They come from Fort Bragg, North Carolina.

Now that move was made before these protesters cleared out today and as many as 4,000 more troops are being prepared for another possible deployment in the next several days.

Now, Boris, we know that President Trump has repeatedly promised to bring troops home. What are they -- what is the White House saying about their plans for these troops in the region?

SANCHEZ: Yes, there's no real clarity at, you know, the President has talked about withdrawing troops from Afghanistan. He withdrew U.S. troops from Syria. We saw how that ended up.

It's really a delicate situation, and as I noted before, the President has sort of campaigned on this platform of withdrawing troops and sort of minimizing the U.S. presence in the region, in part because he is a big critic of what he calls forever wars.

But of course, with this maximum pressure campaign on Iran through sanctions and through his rhetoric, it's difficult not to see a further escalation and again, it's a sensitive time for the President, one that requires measured use of language, but he is continuing the bellicose rhetoric -- Alex.

[14:10:05]

MARQUARDT: Guys, I want to switch gears to North Korea. Kim Jong-un is now no longer saying that he is going to be limiting North Korea's nuclear and ballistic missile development and is planning to unveil what he is calling a new strategic weapon in the near future.

We've also heard from the former National Security adviser, John Bolton. He says quote, "The U.S. should fully resume all canceled or downsized military exercises in South Korea, hold congressional hearings on whether U.S. troops are truly ready to fight tonight."

Now of course, Bolton and Trump have been at odds. Bolton we've heard him blasting Trump's policy on North Korea. Sam, your thoughts on what we -- where we stand with North Korea and what we're hearing from the North Korean dictator?

VINOGRAD: Well, Kim Jong-un is just saying out loud what our Intelligence Community assessed about a year ago in their worldwide threat assessment that North Korea would not denuclearize.

President Trump also pointed, I believe last night, to a contract that he signed with Kim Jong-un and said that Kim Jong-un will keep his word. That is clearly not happening.

The question now is how are we responding to this? We have given diplomacy more than a chance. And at this juncture, we have to look at other options. That includes, of course, our defensive posture in the reason region.

It is a fact as recently as this month that the Pentagon scaled down or postponed really these joint military exercises to try to give diplomacy more space and time.

It is unclear whether our force readiness is where it should be because of the postponement of those exercises. That security piece is key, and at the same time, Robert O'Brien, who succeeded John Bolton is hopefully briefing the President on other options on the table to include potentially offensive cyber operations, if that's possible, as well as additional sanctions.

You know, Kim Jong-un saying he is going to lift this moratorium means that he is publicly announcing that he will break more international laws. U.N. Security resolutions prevent these tests. This is an important time to go to Russia and China and to urge them

to close sanctions loopholes. So the President and his team need to be exploring all of these options.

MARQUARDT: All right, Iran, North Korea -- two major issues to kick off this New Year. Boris, Sam, we have to leave it there. Thanks very much and Happy New Year to you both.

VINOGRAD: Happy New Year.

SANCHEZ: Happy New Year.

MARQUARDT: Well, just ahead, Rudy Giuliani spotted at the Mar-a-Lago New Year's Eve party. What he told reporters about what he could see his role being in the President's impeachment trial.

Plus, people patience? A woman in the crowd in Vatican City grabbing hold of Pope Francis's hand and won't let go. How the Pope responded.

And whatever happened to the Jetsons from flying cars, to trips to Mars? There were plenty of predictions for this upcoming year 2020 and it turns out, many of them were just flat out wrong.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:17:32]

MARQUARDT: Rudy Giuliani told reporters that he learned a lot during his latest trip to Ukraine. But while the President's personal lawyer is not expected to play a formal role in the upcoming Senate impeachment trial for the President, he might just bring that information that he has learned to light as a witness. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PERSONAL ATTORNEY: I would testify. I would do demonstrations. I'd give lectures. I'd give summations or I'd do what I do best. I try the case. I'd love to try the case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: He would do it all. Let's discuss that with Lauren Fox. She's our CNN congressional reporter and Joseph Moreno. He is a former Justice Department and national security prosecutor. Thank you both for joining me today.

Joe, I want to start with you. Rudy Giuliani there speaking to the cameras as he went into the New Year's Eve gala at Mar-a-Lago. He is saying he would testify.

Joe, you're a former prosecutor. Is that a good or bad idea?

JOSEPH MORENO, FORMER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT PROSECUTOR: Alex, this is a terrible idea. First off, he said testify. So to your point, it sounds like Rudy wants to be a witness for the President. But then he also said I would prosecute the case. I think he meant defend it. So I don't know if he means that he wants to be a witness or he wants

to be part of the defense team. That being said, I don't know if Mayor Giuliani has tried a case in something like 40 years. And based on his performance in interviews, even friendly interviews, he seems to lack the sort of train of thought and strategic mind to get through even a short series of questions, much less a trial.

So I think the President should not let him anywhere near this trial.

MARQUARDT: Lauren, you know better than anybody that Republicans on Capitol Hill, the President's supporters really don't want to be hearing from Rudy Giuliani. Is there any indication that the President, McConnell, anybody else would like Giuliani to have a role in this trial?

LAUREN FOX, CNN POLITICS U.S. CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER Well, I think Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has been very clear, Alex, about the fact that he doesn't necessarily want to hear from any witnesses. Right?

The case that McConnell has been making to his Republican rank and file members has been let's see where we are on witnesses first. Let us hear from the House managers, let them make their case. Let the White House defense make their case, then we'll have a decision about witnesses.

And I can guarantee you, based off what I've heard from Republican lawmakers that Rudy Giuliani is not someone that they think is able to defend the President. If anything, they think that, you know, at times he actually undercuts Republican messaging, especially when it came to that phone call between President Trump and President Zelensky -- Alex.

[14:20:04]

MARQUARDT: The person who is going to have possibly the most central role in this upcoming trial is Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, John Roberts. Now, we should remind our viewers, he was appointed by President George W. Bush, who of course, is a Republican. But this sounds like he's not playing into politics.

His latest comments, we've just heard from him, and these are comments that the President may not like. Justice Roberts writing, "We should reflect on our duty to judge without fear or favor, deciding each matter with humility, integrity, and dispatch." Joe, what is the Justice there trying to get at and who is he directing that message at?

MORENO: Well, Alex, I think he is trying to measure expectations here and send the message out that look, he -- Chief Justice Roberts -- is not just interested in individual cases, but he is interested in the institutions of our government, whether it's the Judiciary, the Legislative and the Executive Branch.

So I think, he is cautioning us to say, look, we're losing faith in our institutions, and it's vital that we be seen as fair arbiters of the truth.

So while he may not have a heavy hand in this trial, because it really comes down to what Mitch McConnell and the Republican majority want the trial to look like, he is warning us and perhaps warning the President he does expect it will be conducted fairly and perhaps he is saying, he may even inject himself as necessary to make sure it's a fair trial.

MARQUARDT: And to that point, we don't even know what the trial is going to look like. We don't know when it's going to start. Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi hasn't even sent the Articles of Impeachment to the Senate.

We have heard from Republican Senator Roy Blunt. He told a Missouri radio station that he thinks the trial will be over soon. Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SEN. ROY BLUNT (R-MO): I think it will still happen quickly. The President has been invited by the Speaker to come and give the State of the Union speech on February 4th.

My guess is, we'll be done with this by the time the President comes, but he is going to be up there February 4th, talking about what he wants to talk about, which I assume should be the economy.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Lauren, what are you hearing in terms of what Speaker Pelosi is thinking in terms of timing?

FOX: Well, Roy Blunt basically saying there, his best guess is that this would be over by February 4th. The reality is, the sources I'm talking to tell me that they really don't know how this all will come together.

The expectation is that next week, lawmakers will get back to Washington. They'll have an opportunity to sit down and have some discussions, then they expect that Nancy Pelosi would send over those Articles of Impeachment, but there's really no for sure when it comes to Nancy Pelosi's thinking right now, Alex.

And I will tell you that there is some concern among the President and some of his allies that she could be withholding these for some time. You've basically seen comments from President Trump that he wants this trial to get underway so that he can defend himself.

Nancy Pelosi knows that the President is anxious to get started here. So whether she withholds those Articles for a few more days or weeks, still remains to be seen -- Alex.

MARQUARDT: Many different interests at play here. Lauren Fox, Joseph Moreno, thank you very much.

MORENO: Thanks, Alex. MARQUARDT: All right. Well, coming up, we'll go back to our top

story. The U.S. Embassy in Baghdad is still on edge after two days of violent protests there.

We just learned also that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is now postponing a trip to Europe to monitor that situation in Iraq. We have those details. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:28:02] MARQUARDT: We're back now with more on our top story and that is the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad suspending consular operations and advising U.S. citizens to stay away because of those protests led by supporters of an Iranian-backed militia.

Now, while this militias have withdrawn and things are relatively peaceful now, the incident has put a real spotlight on the foreign policy test that the President Trump is facing in this New Year in the Middle East, and really elsewhere all around the world.

Now, for his part, the President is downplaying any potential military conflict with Iran. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think that would be a good idea for Iran. It wouldn't last very long. Do I want to know? I want to have peace. I like peace. And Iran should want peace more than anybody. So I don't see that happening. No, I don't think Iran would want that to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Robert Ford served as Deputy U.S. Ambassador to Iraq, as well as the Ambassador to Syria during the Obama administration, he joins me now. Mr. Ambassador, thanks so much for coming on the show.

ROBERT FORD, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO SYRIA: My pleasure. Happy New Year.

MARQUARDT: Happy New Year to you as well. So lots going on already in this New Year. those comments that you just heard from President Trump there, they came just hours after a tweet from the President, where he openly admitted that he is threatening Iran saying that the country would be fully held responsible for lives lost and would pay a big price.

Take a look at this video from a "Washington Post" reporter just hours ago. He is on the ground in Baghdad saying that those protesters from that militia are leaving with what was described as chants of celebration. Apparently, there were fireworks.

They said that this was a victory for them. But you Mr. Ambassador, you've said that the Trump administration fell into an Iranian trap. What is that trap? FORD: The narrative -- what we were hearing out of Iraq until this

week was about demonstrations in downtown Baghdad. Iraqis protesting against these Iranian backed --

[14:30:09]