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Iran Vows "Harsh Revenge" for U.S. Killing of Top Commander. Aired 4-5a ET

Aired January 04, 2020 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN breaking news.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Becky Anderson, live for you in Abu Dhabi in the UAE.

And the streets of Baghdad right now are teeming with people and emotions, mourning the anger over a U.S. airstrike that killed Iran's top military commander, Qasem Soleimani.

A funeral procession is underway as we speak for him and others killed at Baghdad's airport, who were targeted Friday by a U.S. drone. Now to be very clear, not everyone in Iraq is mourning Soleimani's death. But even among those who hated what he stood for, who resented Iranian interference in their country, there is anger over an attack by an outside power carried out on Iraqi soil.

Well, earlier, we heard U.S. president Trump justify the operation, saying he acted before Soleimani could carry out more attacks against Americans. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Last night, at my direction, the United States military executed a flawless strike that terminated the terrorist ring leader responsible for gravely wounding and murdering thousands and thousands of people and hundreds and hundreds, at least, of Americans. He was planning a very major attack. And we got him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: These images showing you the outrage being felt in Tehran as well, where we heard chants of "death to America" and saw flags being burned. Iran is promising that it will strike back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJID TAKHT-RAVANCHI, IRANIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: There will be harsh revenge. Iran will act based on its own choosing. And the time, the place will be decided later on. They should expect anything as a result of this aggression.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, Jomana Karadsheh is in Baghdad, where that massive funeral procession is now taking place.

Fred Pleitgen is covering reaction for you in Tehran. Fanned out across the region Nic Robertson in Riyadh for response from U.S. allies in the region and beyond.

In Beirut for you this morning, Nick Paton Walsh, with a look at the potential Iranian response. What they were planning as far as the Americans were concerned and what could be next. Oren Liebermann is at the Israel-Lebanon border. Matthew Chance is in Moscow, where Russia is calling the killing of Soleimani as, quote, "short-sighted."

I want to begin in the Iraqi capital where Soleimani was killed and thousands of people now fill the streets. Not everybody revering this Iranian military commander. But the streets, now, teeming with his supporters.

What's the mood in Iraq?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a very tense mood, as you can imagine, Becky. Thousands of mourners are on the streets of Baghdad for the funeral procession of the 10 individuals who were killed in the U.S. strike on Friday.

Of course, those two top commanders; you had Qasem Soleimani and also Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, one of the most senior paramilitary figures in this country. He was the deputy commander of that umbrella group of the Iranian-backed Shia militias.

And they are guessing the funeral that, you know, heroes would get, national heroes, martyrs. You've got the Iraqi prime minister, amongst other top officials, who are out on the streets, who have joined this procession right now, that is going to be making a number of different stops, not just here in Baghdad.

They'll also be heading to the southern cities, the holy cities, before the remains of Soleimani will be returned to Iran. That is expected to take place either later today or on Sunday.

You know, we've seen very emotional scenes during this funeral procession.

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KARADSHEH: Becky, so many young men who were commanded by these two men in the battlefield, on the front lines, in the fight against ISIS. We saw young men who were crying over their deaths.

But at the same time, you have these scenes of real anger, chants of "Death to America" and "Death to Israel." So you know, there's a lot of concern here about what happens next. While some are obviously happy to see the death of Qasem Soleimani, to

see the end of this era, there's a lot of concern because, you know, people here would be united in their feelings that this was a violation, they say, of Iraqi sovereignty.

And now, they're really pushing their government. They want to see the Iraqi political leadership act and take a tough stance when it comes to the United States' actions here in Iraq.

People are really concerned that, yet again, this country is being turned into an arena the United States to settle scores with regional powers. And yet again, they feel that they are the ones who are going to be caught in the midst of this -- Becky.

ANDERSON: Jomana Karadsheh in Baghdad, monitoring these images of these streets of Baghdad teeming with supporters of the Iranian military leader for his funeral procession today. Thank you for that.

CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is standing by.

Qasem Soleimani allegedly directing attacks on U.S. targets just as mass protests against Iran's growing influence in Iraq were gaining in momentum. And we've seen similar protests in Beirut as well.

Nic, you are in Riyadh. This has been for many years now Tehran's nemesis, of course. Accusations that Iran, under the guise of Qasem Soleimani, has been running a benign policy across the Middle East to the detriment of, for example, the Saudis and those in the UAE where I am based.

What's the perspective about what happens next where you are?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. The Saudis have been really strong supporters of President Trump because he has been so outspokenly anti-Iranian.

At the same time, you know, there's concern that his lack of understanding and familiarity with detail and the complexities of this region could trigger the potential for a conflict.

I think if you go back to last summer and look at the tensions in the Strait of Hormuz and look at the tensions when Iran precipitated an attack, a complex attack, on Saudi oil refineries, that feeling was getting most acute that President Trump might feel a need to respond to these escalations by Iran in a way that could destabilize the region.

Well, we've heard from, you know, the German minister of foreign and European affairs, you know, raising concerns about the situation, the region getting to a tipping point. The French also, their sense is that this is -- that this is now a situation where there's an escalation between Iran and the United States.

And -- and the way that precipitates and the way that -- that -- that impacts a country like Saudi Arabia is that it can get caught up in that escalation. But I think the real view from here is that President Trump, you know, is still a friend. They still share that same view over -- over -- over Iran being a destabilizing, negative terrorist influence in the region wanting to expand its influence.

So you know, they're willing to withstand, if you will, you know, some unpredictabilities in what President Trump is doing. But they are also saying very cautiously as well, saying, look, don't escalate this. Don't bring more harm and suffering to the region. So there is a real caution.

And they know here in Riyadh that they've been the target for Iran's proxies before. The Houthis sending huge long-range Scud missiles Iranian made all the way to the capital here. No one's been killed but that's always a possibility. And as well, those oil refineries targeted just a few months ago by a complex Iranian attack.

So the Saudis know that they could be in the firing line. But for all of that, they still, you know, they're still standing side by side with President Trump on this.

ANDERSON: Yes, it's not clear how the Iranians will respond, whether they will respond at all at this point.

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ANDERSON: But clearly, this specific region of the Gulf on high alert at present. Nic Robertson in Riyadh for you.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh live from Beirut.

Nick, in effort to provide some perspective for all of this, it is important that we explore the intelligence that -- that has been released or at least talked about as to what this imminent attack might have been on U.S. assets Donald Trump and his close advisors say was the reason for this attack at Baghdad airport on Friday.

Any further information at this point?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Only a certain amount in terms of what they're willing to divulge. That will, of course, be the increasing problem for the U.S. moving forward. They have committed one of the most far-reaching acts possibly in the Middle East over the past 10 years or so.

And they said they've done it based on intelligence. They're not willing, for reasons they say, to do it, how it was gathered. And their sources and methods to fully share. What they will say is that they were concerned about imminent threats directed by Qasem Soleimani himself in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon against military and diplomatic personnel.

Now there are military personnel in Syria. Diplomatic and military in Iraq. And only diplomatic here in Lebanon.

So the inclusion of Lebanon here makes you think probably they were talking about something to do, most likely, with their big diplomatic facility here, the Beirut embassy. In Syria, too, we know there are many U.S. Special Forces who are moving around the battlefield there in a volatile area. So it's clear, quite possibly, what they might have been worried about and plenty of targets as you well know. We've seen in the past couple of weeks in Iraq anyway.

The question is how advanced were those plots?

Now obviously, U.S. officials suggesting they were advanced enough that they required action to stop them.

But then you also have to ask, if they were that advanced, why was it seminal to remove Qasem Soleimani from battlefield in order to prevent them from happening?

They could perhaps be carried out in the event of his death, anyway. So we're into a complicated days and weeks ahead here now, where it will become clear whether or not these plots existed, whether or not they can still go ahead, regardless of Qasem Soleimani's death.

And also, too, we are, at this point, looking, I think realistically, Becky, at two or three more days in which the funeral processions or proceedings around the burial of Qasem Soleimani play out quite slowly.

That may impede, possibly, any broader retaliation. Perhaps the Iranians do not want to mix signals to that degree, do something while burials continue to play out. And we may possibly be looking at a more strategic, longer term response or something that happens at a time and place of Iran's choosing, not with the immediacy that perhaps suits American readiness -- Becky.

ANDERSON: Yes. I just wondered whether you might go down that route. If Soleimani's goal was to provoke a U.S. military response that would redirect the sort of rising anger towards the United States, to some degree, he's -- he's achieved that. And in some ways, that might be sufficient without further response in the eyes of Tehran.

An interesting -- an interesting point. We wait to see, of course, Iran vowing revenge for these U.S. attacks.

This just coming in to CNN.

Thank you, Nick.

The U.K. now advising against all travel to Iraq except for the Kurdistan region and all but essential travel to Iran. This, of course, following the U.S. drone strike on one of Iran's most powerful men, military leader Qasem Soleimani, in Baghdad on Friday.

And the images you are seeing is a funeral procession for him and those who were killed with him. Much more ahead on the fallout from that operation.

Ahead, To Moscow for reaction from the Iranian ally, the Kremlin there.

Plus, an Iran expert joining us to discuss what Tehran could be planning. That's all coming up. Stay with us.

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ANDERSON: Crowds packing Baghdad and other cities for funeral processions for those killed in the U.S. strike in Iraq on Friday. Among the dead, top Iranian commander Qasem Soleimani, whom the U.S. holds responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Americans.

U.S. president Donald Trump says he ordered the strike to, quote, "stop a war." But if Iran's reaction is any indication, it may well lead to one. The country's U.N. ambassador has promised harsh revenge for what he calls an act of war.

Well, all of this being closely monitored by Moscow where our Matthew Chance has Russia's reaction to the U.S. strike.

And perspective on how Moscow might, if at all, get involved -- Matthew.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I don't think it's going to want to get involved directly. But it will be watching the situation develop with a high degree of concern.

Russia has a unique relationship with Iran. It's a strong diplomatic supporter of the country at venues like the U.N. Security Council where it often intervenes on behalf of the Islamic Republic. It fights shoulder to shoulder with Iran on the ground in Syria where they both back the regime of the Syrian president Bashar al-Assad.

And Qasem Soleimani was a figure well known in Russia. He visited the country on a number of occasions to deal with foreign policy and to deal with that military coordination on the ground in Syria.

And so unexpectedly -- not unexpectedly, the Russians have been sharply critical of this decision by the United States to -- to kill this senior Iranian figure.

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CHANCE: There's been a statement from the Russian foreign minister saying, "Washington's move is fraught with grave consequences in terms of regional peace and stability."

There are concerns in Russia that this is going to lead to more consequences, that there is going to be some sort of revenge, a retribution attack carried out by Iran or its proxies. That's of concern. The Russian defense ministry has called the act "short-sighted," which

will bring serious, negative consequences for the entire international security system. I mean, the Russians, to be clear, aren't that bothered about the immediate aftermath of this.

But what they are concerned about is a spiral of escalation that could see the United States and Iran be drawn into a direct confrontation, a conflict that could result in regime change, for instance, in Iran, which is something the Russians do not want to see because they don't want to see any other countries like Iraq, for instance, a pro-Russian regime, a pro-Russian government, being replaced as a result of a conflict with a pro-American one.

They've seen it in other parts of the region. They definitely don't want to see it in Iran.

ANDERSON: Fascinating, the perspective in Moscow with Matthew Chance.

Sanam Vakil leads the Iran foreign project at Chatham House in London and she joins me now live.

What do you make of the images that we are seeing?

These are throngs of what are, has to be ,said supporters of Qasem Soleimani in Iraq. This is a funeral procession for him and those who lost their lives during this U.S. strike in Baghdad before his casket and these others are moved for funerals in Iran on Sunday.

Just your sense of what we are seeing here in our television screens?

SANAM VAKIL, CHATHAM HOUSE: I think the funeral processions are really indicative of the sentiments of support inside Iraq. And I think that we're going to see similar sentiments inside Iran.

And when there are similar processions, perhaps in Beirut as well on Sunday, you are going to see the transnational power, mobilizing power and soft power that the Islamic Republic is going to try to project. And as part of that power, to also rally anti-American sentiments throughout the region in its favor.

ANDERSON: Mohammad Ali Shabani writes in "The Guardian," "Soleimani may with his death have already achieved the greatest revenge of all and without firing a single bullet, namely his ultimate objective of ending the U.S. military presence in Iraq."

Is he right?

Is that likely?

VAKIL: Yes. It's a great piece and rightly points to the fact that with the killing of Qasem Soleimani, the Iraqi government is in a very awkward position. All members of the Iraqi political elite that have suffered over the past few months of protests, that have been targeting the political elite writ large, have had to condemn Qasem Soleimani's and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis' killing. We've seen statements from Grand Ayatollah Sistani, from President

Saleh, people who have been more critical of the Iranian presence in Iraq. And so this puts the leadership in awkward footing and it could result in legal calls for the U.S. to leave Iraq and, finally, leave Iraq to Iran, which is ultimately what Mohammad Ali Shabani is suggesting could be a victory for Iran.

ANDERSON: Yes. Listened to what the Iranian ambassador told my colleague Erin Burnett shortly after this U.S. attack at the airport in Baghdad that killed Qasem Soleimani. Have a listen.

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TAKHT-RAVANCHI, IRANIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: We cannot just close our eyes to what happened last night. Definitely there will be revenge. There will be harsh revenge. Iran will act based on its own choosing. And the time, the place will be decided by Iran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: These were strong words. And you would expect them to be so. But in this region of the Gulf, it has to be said, for months now, we have been hearing a narrative of deescalation, of a political solution.

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ANDERSON: You hear the Iranians in many guises, saying -- you know, vowing revenge, saying it is them to decide when and how that revenge may come about.

Are you as convinced as others that the Iranians will have to take revenge, will have to come up with some sort of retaliation to this?

Or is there, perhaps, a building narrative here that, you know, it's not completely necessary?

VAKIL: No. I really believe that the Iranian government is going to have to strongly respond to this. The killing of Qasem Soleimani is symbolic for the Islamic Republic. Imagine what the killing of an equivalent American general would result from the U.S. government.

So I think that the Iranian response is going to be quite severe. It will be calculated. But any and all options, I think, are on the table. And, unfortunately, I strongly believe that Iran is going to try and transfer the cost of this killing by stoking instability throughout the region.

We are bound to see greater instability in Iraq. But I think also back to the Strait of Hormuz and of the Persian Gulf. I think the Arab Gulf countries are very nervous because they've tried to pursue passive deescalation. That hasn't really manifested in any serious rapprochement. We haven't seen the sanctions relief that Iran is seeking.

And I think that Iran is very much backed into a corner right now. And it's only through escalating and upping the ante and getting into that unpredictable territory that Iran could, potentially, find a pathway to negotiation with the Trump administration.

ANDERSON: Who say that talks are still on the table, should Iran want that. It doesn't appear that that is a route that the -- the Iranians are ready to take, at least not as we consider these images of Qasem Soleimani's casket and funeral procession through the streets of Baghdad as we've been discussing.

Further funeral services for Qasem Soleimani, Iran's top military commander in Iran, Monday and Tuesday. Sanam Vakil, thank you.

Well, the streets of Baghdad packed as mourners gather to remember the victims of the U.S. strike. More on that in the couple of hours to come.

Plus, how Israel is reacting to the killing of Iran's top general. Everything interconnected here in this region of the Middle East. Do stay with us as we break down what is going on and what might happen next.

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ANDERSON: Welcome back to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Becky Anderson. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm based here in Abu Dhabi in the UAE.

Breaking news this hour. Throngs of people are jamming the streets of the Iraqi capital for processions and funerals for victims of the U.S. strike on Baghdad airport on Friday.

One of those victims is Iran's top military commander, Qasem Soleimani. U.S. president Donald Trump says he directed the strike on the Quds Force general because Soleimani was plotting a major attack. Iran vowing to revenge what it calls an act of war. CNN senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen has more for you from Tehran.

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FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Becky. There's a great deal of anger here in Iran. And there's sadness and mourning, especially among Iranian officials.

You take the supreme leader. He came out and he hailed Qasem Soleimani as someone, he put it, a hero, of the Iranian nation and someone he said who wanted to die as a martyr for the Iranian nation.

Now the supreme leader also said that the work that Qasem Soleimani had done as part of the Quds Force, that work would continue. We know he has named a successor. He said that organization would work exactly the way in it had worked before.

As well, the supreme leader vowed revenge against the United States, as did president Hassan Rouhani and the foreign minister Javad Zarif as well.

What the Iranians said in the past, they said the United States needs to understand that next to every American military base in this region, there is an Iranian militia or some sort of group that is controlled by the Iranians next door. So the U.S. needs to be on the lookout for that.

Aside from the anger you see from the officials, there is also mourning. That's something that the Iranians will display over the next couple days. There's three days of public mourning that have been ordered by Iran's supreme leader. There will then be a funeral procession for Qasem Soleimani.

It will take place on Sunday, that the supreme leader is going to be part of as well -- Becky

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ANDERSON: Yes. That's Fred Pleitgen.

CNN's Oren Liebermann is at the Israeli-Lebanese border with more on the potential fallout both there and across the Middle East.

Your perspective, Oren?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is one of Iran's options for responding to the strike that killed Soleimani. It would be an Iranian proxy either in Syria or Hezbollah.

Perhaps, it's not the most likely option for Iran to respond. One of Israel's top strategic analysts said U.S. forces in Iraq are much clear; Saudi Arabia is much more vulnerable. But all of that may make Israel a very tempting target especially, since we've seen Iran threaten Israel before.

After the killing of Soleimani, prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu cut short a visit to Greece, held a security assessment in the ministry of defense in Tel Aviv. It has to be said there are no restrictions right now on civilians living in northern Israel.

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LIEBERMANN: But this isn't the only option for a response. We learned there is a mourning tent for Qasem Soleimani in Gaza, where Iran has influence and partially funds Islamic Jihad. So that would be another option for Iran to respond.

Or perhaps it might come overseas, targeted at an Israeli embassy or consulate abroad. For that reason, Israeli media reports that the Israeli foreign ministry has directed an elevated level of alert at consulates and embassies abroad. So all of that is what we are keeping an eye on. But for now, the border is tense, as usual, but calm. There is

speculation that prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu was given a heads- up about this strike. He did speak with secretary of state Mike Pompeo earlier this week.

One day later, he said in a statement that it was a very stormy region and that very, very dramatic things are happening in it, that Israel stands behind the U.S. and that the U.S. has the right to defend itself.

That line about defending itself is virtually the same line, Netanyahu said after the killing of Soleimani, where he said just as Israel has the right to defend itself, so does the U.S. There has been no public comment or confirmation from the prime minister's office on whether Israel was given an advanced heads-up at this point.

But given that Israel held Soleimani responsible for Iran's aggression, its expansion, its strategy in Syria, Soleimani was really public enemy number one for Israel.

ANDERSON: Yes.

Who knew what and when?

Oren, thank you for that.

Oren is on the Israeli-Lebanese border as we keep our eye or eyes on funeral processions in Iraq as our special coverage of the killing of Iran's Qasem Soleimani continues.

My colleague, senior international correspondent Sam Kiley, with me here in Abu Dhabi for analysis.

What does happen next?

That up after this.

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ANDERSON: Supporters of the Iranian military commander and others killed in a U.S. strike on Friday are gathering on the streets of Baghdad, mourning the death of Qasem Soleimani in funeral processions across Baghdad and other Iraqi cities. Iran, vowing to respond to the killings. It's not yet clear how or when, though.

U.S. president Donald Trump says Soleimani was killed to prevent an imminent attack on Americans. Some Democrats in the U.S. voicing doubts about that justification. Well, there is no doubt that his death will have ripple effects across the world. But in the Middle East, in particular. How, though, is the question?

I want to turn to senior international correspondent, my colleague here, Sam Kiley.

And it is interesting, isn't it?

Because, you know, the sort of -- the sort of, you know, immediate reaction was -- around this region -- you know, what is going to happen next?

I mean, this is just -- you know, this is all-out war. I mean, the Iranians -- one of the Iranian leaders has said this is an act of war.

But as the dust has settled somewhat, your thoughts on where we are at?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The first thing, the diplomatic response has come immediately. They're about to dispatch their foreign minister to go to Tehran. Presumably and this has been a role Qatar has played in the past, to try to deescalate.

They sit somewhere between -- they are a Gulf Arab Sunni monarchy. But they are in friction, to say the least, with their colleagues. That gives them, oddly enough, an entree with the -- with the Iranians and an opportunity to deescalate.

Their business, just like everybody else's business in the Gulf, relies on the fact that the Strait of Hormuz doesn't get closed. So that kind of local geopolitical sphere, I think is the immediate reaction.

More widely, as you say, when people calm down, they start thinking, well, what are the options available?

The Iranians have said absolutely explicit -- explicitly, the ambassador to the U.N. saying we will take revenge and you won't know when and where that will be. I think they will target United States' interests or United States individuals around the world. They could be anywhere between San Diego and Singapore. There's absolutely no restriction on their abilities.

They have cells with the IRGC's Quds Force all over the world. They've already been stood up in the past.

And then the other thing people quite often forget is that there is a tricky alliance, very often, between the Iranian Quds Force and very hardline Sunni jihadist movements. The Khorasan group in northern Syria was actually in many ways created out of Tehran and was the first on the target list when the Americans began their bombing campaign long before they started hitting ISIS targets.

So they can work through proxies that you might not even imagine were allies. So in that context, they've got a lot of flexibility.

The flip side of that is that people in the region will also be saying, well, actually, the Iranians have been paid back for what certainly British intelligence officials have told me they're certain was an Iranian-directed missile strike into Saudi territory for the destabilization in Syria, in Yemen and so on, that there has to be a line drawn, unlike the Obama administration.

Recall, that said they had red lines for the chemical weapons in the Assad regime and then allowed those red lines to be completely traversed. So there is an interesting response. I think people are waiting and calibrating.

ANDERSON: You -- you referenced Kataib in this. Iran's foreign minister Javad Zarif is set to hold talks with his Qatari counterparts soon . I was in Doha in early December and I spoke to the Qatari foreign minister then, who was heavily plugging the need for a regional detente between Iran on the one hand and Saudi and, for example, here in the UAE, on the other.

And we are hearing a narrative from here, from Saudi, particularly on the back of this event on Friday, about de-escalation, about finding a political solution, which in some ways doesn't fit their ally, the U.S.' narrative, certainly the hawks from the Trump administration.

Are we seeing a disconnect between -- burgeoning disconnect between this region, that it seems finally has come to the conclusion, albeit rather late, that it needs to sort its own stuff out in this region and the U.S., who -- who are still looking for support from allies like Saudi and the UAE here in the Gulf?

KILEY: Here in the Gulf and the broader region has understood since the Obama days that they had in Obama an unreliable ally. In the Trump administration, an unpredictable one.

[04:45:00]

KILEY: In either case, they have to not rely on external forces to try to come to regional and localized agreements.

Perhaps there's a dawning; certainly, I hear that from officials here in the UAE and elsewhere, a dawning realization that they mustn't become playthings in perpetuity of outside powers, that they don't want this region -- I'm talking about this immediate region -- to become part of the front line in a proxy war, for example, between the United States and Iran.

We're a very short missile throw from Iranian territory and vice versa. The Iranians are masters of destabilization.

But there's a point, there's a tipping point at which that destabilization could fall into all-out war. And they simply cannot afford one. But what they can afford to do is to keep chaos in the ranks of the enemy as a kind of perpetual destabilizing mechanism.

And that's been successful. I mean, look at what's happening in Iraq. A week and a half ago, the Iraqis were effectively burning Iranian flags and attacking Iranian consulates. And these were Shia Iraqis attacking Shia sites. That's now been flipped on its head entirely. And it's back to

burning the Union Jack and the American flag. So in that context, they've regained control of the narrative in many ways.

ANDERSON: It's interesting, isn't it?

Because Iran -- there are those that say Iran might take their time to react. But they will have to react because that's the entire premise of this regime.

You know, the U.S. is the aggressor, that the U.S. is an existential threat. And at the same time, this kind of slightly more comfortable position, which suggests they don't actually need to react because what they have achieved already is a kind of distancing of the U.S.

It remains to be seen what happens. You and I are going to continue to talk this morning. It is quarter to 2:00 Abu Dhabi time in the afternoon. It is slightly earlier than that in Baghdad, where massive crowds on the streets of the city are honoring those killed in a U.S. airstrike.

Our breaking news coverage does continue after this short break, it's early morning Eastern time, as I say, quarter to 2:00 in the afternoon here in the UAE. Stay with us.

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ANDERSON: Funerals are underway in Iraq for the victims of the U.S. drone strike at Baghdad International Airport. Among those killed was the Quds Force commander Qasem Soleimani. He is viewed as a national hero in Iran.

The U.S. certainly didn't see him that way. President Donald Trump said Soleimani was plotting a major attack on Americans and he wanted to prevent a war, not start one. But the strike has dramatically escalated tensions, with Iran now vowing harsh revenge.

And the United States sending thousands of additional troops to this region of the Middle East. Earlier Anderson Cooper sat down with Leon Panetta, White House chief of staff during the Clinton administration, as you'll remember, and also former U.S. Secretary of Defense and former head of the CIA.

He has been privy to some of the most sensitive information regarding threat assessments as anybody in Washington. And says the chances, as far as he is concerned, for war are more serious now than they have been in decades. Have a listen.

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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Secretary Panetta, what's your reaction to the killing of Qasem Soleimani?

LEON PANETTA, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, I think it's important not to mourn the death of General Soleimani because he was a bad actor and somebody who was involved in killing thousands of innocent people, as well as U.S. military personnel.

But I think the principal question is whether or not the killing of Soleimani has increased or lessened the chances of war. And I think, frankly, they've increased the chances of war and the chances that Iran will now respond with a -- what it calls a crushing response.

COOPER: In terms of a response it's, I mean, you're not talking about a ground war the likes of which we saw in Iraq with U.S. forces.

You're talking about more asymmetrical strikes by Iran in a variety of places potentially?

PANETTA: Yes. No, look, I think we're now in a cycle of punch and counterpunch. I think, to a large extent, both countries failed in the way they approached each other. They both thought they could bully each other to somehow get them to do what they wanted to do. And that just did not happen.

And so the end result now is that we're in this cycle of punch and counterpunch, in which one side hits back and the other side responds. How long that cycle goes on and whether it ultimately leads to a full- scale war is the question that I think concerns everyone.

COOPER: Former Obama administration officials have said that discussions to take out Soleimani, to kill him, never reached beyond an operational phase.

As the former Secretary of Defense in the administration, why was that?

What's your memory of the rationale?

PANETTA: Well, I don't -- frankly, I don't remember any discussion about, you know, potentially targeting General Soleimani because, you know, we're dealing with Iran. There are a number of generals that operate in their military, just as there are a number of generals in North Korea, in Russia and in China.

So you focus on the political leadership to determine whether or not you're going to be able to deal with that country or not. You don't focus on whether or not you can start killing individual generals. That's not the case.

[04:55:00]

PANETTA: The people we did focus on killing were the terrorists who were involved, obviously, in 9/11 because they were clearly devoted to killing Americans. And that's -- those were the targets that we cared about.

COOPER: There are many reports; I mean, Soleimani is said to have had the blood of hundreds, if not, more than several thousand Americans, on his hands in Iraq specifically, that they provided -- through him, they provided training, they provided equipment for explosive devices that militias used in and other forces used against American forces in Iraq.

So would you consider Soleimani a terrorist?

PANETTA: Look, there's no question he's a bad actor and he was involved in those kinds of attacks. But the real question that I think everyone has to ask is whether or not we have increased the chances of war with Iran as a result of what happened.

And I don't think there's any question the chances for war are more serious now than they have been in the last 40 years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Leon Panetta speaking to my colleague, Anderson Cooper, in the hours after the U.S. attack.

Well, that wraps this hour of CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi. Another hour of news is just ahead. So wherever you are in the world, do stay with us.