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Iraq Votes To Expel U.S. Troops; One U.S. Service Member And Two Civilian Defense Contractors Killed In Kenya; Congress Returns Amid Impeachment Standoff And Iran Tension. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired January 05, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Iraq's Parliament voted to outline a plan to end the U.S. troop presence in that country.

Iraq's Foreign Ministry is also complaining to the United Nations, calling on the U.N. Security Council to condemn Thursday's bombings by the U.S. that killed Soleimani and nine others in Iraq.

Meanwhile, Soleimani's body returned to his home country of Iran today. Thousands of mourners filled the streets and outrage was also felt in Iran's Parliament.

Lawmakers were seen chanting, "Death to America," during a session in Tehran.

Iranian officials tell CNN that they are planning a response to the U.S. against military sites. This as President Trump is warning against any Iranian retaliation.

In a series of tweets, President Trump revealed that the U.S. is prepared to target 52 Iranian sites, some of which hold cultural significance. The warning comes as the Trump administration faces questions here at home about the timing of the attack on Soleimani, and if Soleimani was planning an imminent attack, which U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo really did not answer with clarity this morning when he spoke to CNN's "State of the Union."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: If you're an American in the region, days and weeks, this is not something that's relevant. We have to prepare. We have to be ready. We took a bag out of the battlefield, we made the right decision.

There is less risk today to American forces in the region as a result of that tech, I am proud of the effort that President Trump undertook and the execution by our military was phenomenal and the work that's been done by our diplomats in the region, to prepare and to work diplomatically in the region has been powerful, important and effective.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WHITFIELD: CNN White House Correspondent, Jeremy Diamond is in South

Florida, where the President just wrapping up his vacation there. Jeremy, what else is the administration saying about that sequence of events?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER Well, Fredricka, we are seeing the Secretary of State Mike Pompeo delivering the Trump administration's message today and it is certainly not one where the administration is walking back President Trump's threats from last night directed at Iran, that threat to target 52 sites if Iran does carry out any retaliatory action for the U.S.'s killing of the Iranian General, Qasem Soleimani.

Instead, what we are hearing from Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is defending the President's comments and insisting that it's simply signals the U.S.'s resolve to defend Americans. Listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POMPEO: President Trump has been resolute. We will continue to be. We will defend America; and the strikes we took over this past week including killing the terrorist, Soleimani, we will continue to take if we need to. If we need to defend American interests, we will do so.

What President Trump said last night is consistent with what we have said all along, Iranian proxy forces in Iraq have thought that they could act with impunity, and that if they acted, we wouldn't take strikes against Iran proper.

We've made clear -- we've made clear for months to the Iranian regime that that wouldn't be the case. That we were going to hold responsible the actors, the leaders who took these actions and who orchestrated these actions.

President Trump's tweet last night made clear we will continue to do that, and the American people should know we will always defend them, and will do so in a way that is consistent with the international rule of law and the American Constitution. We've done it before. We will do it again.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: All right, with all due respect, because President Trump's threat on Iranian cultural centers, or centers of interest to the Iranian culture would not be in accordance with international law.

So which is it?

POMPEO: I've been with President Trump through the entire strategic planning process related to our entire campaign, diplomatic, economic and military.

We built out an enormous coalition to push back against the Islamic Republic of Iran and its kleptocratic regime. The American people should know that we will not waver. We will be bold in protecting American interest and will do so in a way that's consistent with the rule of law. We've always done that, Jake, and President Trump's tweet doesn't deviate from that one iota.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: Now, Fredricka, two senior U.S. officials are telling our colleague, Jim Sciutto that there is deep opposition within the administration to this notion of bombing cultural sites, which, of course, would be a war crime based on international law that the U.S. has actually signed on to.

Now, former officials have been quick to point out -- former U.S. officials have been pointing out that the military would never actually recommend these kinds of targets because of course of those violations of international law.

But regardless of whether or not the President would indeed follow through with this threat to bomb cultural sites, he is nonetheless laying out a pretty stark red line here as far as it relates to any future Iranian military action.

The President said quite clearly in that tweet that if Iran attacks the U.S., attacks any Americans or any American interests in the region that the United States would respond militarily including with this threat to bomb 52 sites, including those within Iran.

[15:05:10]

DIAMOND: That, of course, would put the United States and Iran very quickly on the path to war. As all of this is going on, though, we are already beginning to get some reaction from Congress. And we are getting some criticism from those Members of Congress who were briefed on the classified Intelligence that led to the United States, to the President ordering this strike against Qasem Soleimani.

Here is Congressman Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the Intelligence Committee raising some of those very questions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Soleimani has been plotting against the United States for decades. The question is, did the plotting here rise the level that required his elimination from the battlefield? And would that elimination, stop the plotting? Or would it accelerate it? Or would it make the potential attacks to the United States greater, not worse?

And there, I don't think the Intelligence supports the conclusion that removing Soleimani increases our security.

There's a big difference when our generals talk about potential plots in days, weeks or months between days and months, and particularly when you have someone like Soleimani who has been at this for so long.

So the question is why now? Is this going to increase or decrease the risk of war? And I think it's going to increase the risk of war with Iran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: That is, of course, the big question is why now? And so far, the Trump administration has yet to offer a compelling and full explanation of why this was the moment to take this drastic action against Iran, against this top Iranian general.

And of course, those fears now coming up as to whether or not this could set up the U.S. and Iran on a path to war -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Jeremy Diamond, thank you so much. And now this update on the breaking news we told you at the top of the hour.

CNN has just learned that one U.S. service member and two civilian defense contractors were killed in Kenya when terrorist militants attacked a base used by U.S. forces. This information coming from the U.S. Defense Department just moments ago.

CNN's Farai Sevenzo joining us right now from the Kenyan capital of Nairobi. Farai, what more are you learning?

FARAI SEVENZO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, as you just said, those casualties have occurred and we are hearing as well from Major General Stephen Townsend, who is the Commander of the U.S.-Africa Command who is saying that our thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of our teammates who lost their lives today.

Now, early this morning, as we've been reporting all day, the al Qaeda affiliated group, Al-Shabaab attacked Manda Bay Airfield and caused this extensive damage to both fixed wing and rotary aircraft.

Kenyan Defense Forces told us that five of the Al-Shabaab terrorists were found dead. They found some weapons as well, rocket propelled grenades, but these new deaths make this a very poignant moment indeed because it is the first time Al-Shabaab have attacked American troops on Kenyan soil.

Now this base Camp Simba is used where U.S. Special Forces often train their partners in East Africa like the Kenyan Defense Forces to fight Al-Shabaab.

And of course, don't forget, while we were looking for the reasons of such an audacious attack over the last several months, American troops together with Somalis, and of course, the Kenyan Defense Forces had been targeting Al-Shabaab bases, whether this is the reason for this additional attack, we do not yet know.

But now lives have been lost, Fredricka, and we wait now to hear more from the Defense Forces about who has died and who was injured.

WHITFIELD: Farai Sevenzo, thank you so much, from Nairobi. All right. And there is more fallout from the deadly strike on an Iranian general. Iran says it is cutting its commitment to the 2015 nuclear deal. What that announcement means and what potentially is next.

Plus, a dire warning from former National Security adviser, Susan Rice. Why she says Americans should brace for war. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:11:30]

WHITFIELD: Iraq's Parliament takes steps toward demanding U.S. troops leave the country. I want to bring in CNN's Arwa Damon in Baghdad. So Arwa, why is today's Parliamentary vote to expel foreign troops so significant?

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you have a country that is stuck in a pretty extraordinary circumstance. This vote took place because Parliament was in fact able to achieve quorum, but only through the representation of its Suni parliamentarian. So basically -- the Kurds -- sorry, it's Shia parliamentarians.

So basically the Kurds and the Sunnis were not present, and this shows you just how divided this country is over the issue of U.S. troop presence.

Now the argument to actually expel foreign troops was made by the caretaker Prime Minister himself, Adel Abdul Mahdi, who said that he believed that that was the best option for a number of reasons to avoid more bloodshed in Iraq, saying that the U.S. forces wouldn't be able to protect themselves and the Iraqi Security Forces wouldn't necessarily be able to protect them either.

But underlying all of this, of course, is that the calculus was perhaps made to a certain degree that in order to at least defuse the situation, inside Iraq itself, it would be easier to a certain degree to ask foreign forces to leave versus the country trying to somehow disentangle itself from Iran's political and military influence.

Here is how he put it a Parliament earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADEL ABDUL MAHDI, IRAQI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): It will be difficult for foreign forces to protect themselves from strikes that come from inside or outside Iraq, and it will be difficult for Iraqi forces to protect after a recent incident, and not to resort to peaceful and political solutions.

Therefore, it is in the interest of both Iraq and the U.S. to end foreign troop presence in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DAMON: Now, given that he is a caretaker Prime Minister, there are to a certain degree, some questions still surrounding whether or not he has the authority to then ask coalition forces to leave.

He, himself said that he did not need to go to Parliament for that permission, but analysts are saying that he is probably looking for political support, and to try to take some of the burden of responsibility for what comes next off of himself and onto a broader political base. Iraq is in an impossible situation. The country will face bloodshed

if U.S. forces stay. It will face bloodshed if U.S. forces leave.

He also disclosed some interesting details regarding Qasem Soleimani saying that the Iranian general was actually scheduled to meet with him at 8:30 in the morning, the very morning where he was killed -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Arwa Damon in Baghdad, thank you so much. So all of this while the U.S. is also sending more than 3,000 service members to the Middle East right now to beef up security around the region.

I want to bring in Colonel Cedric Leighton. He's a retired U.S. military commander who served across the Middle East. Colonel, good to see you.

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good to see you, too, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Boy, this is quite the contrast, is it not? I mean, how do you see that Iraq could expel the 5,000 US troops that are in that country, while at the same time the U.S. is sending nearly 3,000 U.S. troops to the region?

[15:15:01]

LEIGHTON: Oh, yes, absolutely, Fredricka. And, you know, you look at, you know, on one side we're withdrawing or we're probably will be asked to withdraw from Iraq; on the other side, we'll be adding to our forces, probably in places like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and some of the other Gulf states in the UAE.

Those are the kinds of things that will really make a difference when it comes to actually going after Iran, should Iran try to do something, but we're in a very tenuous situation here.

As a friend of mine pointed out to me, earlier today, we have to remember that Iraq was supposed to be the place where we would be keeping a watch on ISIS from that country.

And, you know, if we're going to be withdrawing from Iraq, that ability to look and see what ISIS is up to is going to be even more severely limited.

WHITFIELD: And potentially that makes Iraq then fertile ground, right, for terror groups like ISIS to become more bolstered?

LEIGHTON: Absolutely, and you know, it's one of those things, Fredricka, where if you have a vacuum, in other words, no U.S. forces there, this open space, these open areas where ISIS or a group like ISIS could reform, then you've got the potential for some major, major issues of expansion for a group like that, that could then directly conflict with Iran.

And of course, with Iran and the U.S. being at loggerheads right now, it really portends a very serious and messy situation that will be really hard to extricate ourselves from.

WHITFIELD: So an expulsion, you know, by Iraq, how much you know, fuel to the fire does that add to Iran threat, that there would be harsh retaliation and telling our -- you know, an Iranian official telling our Fred Pleitgen that it would be retaliation on a military retaliation on military installations abroad.

LEIGHTON: Well, I think the Iranian threat to retaliate against military installations -- U.S. military installations abroad seems to point in the direction of an attack in the Gulf area. So they're being as specific as I've ever heard them when it comes to these kinds of threats.

And that would certainly bring out some questions from a force protection standpoint for U.S. forces. What that really would mean is that we have to be very careful, our senior leaders have to be extremely careful when it comes to their personal safety. And we also have to make sure that our troops are kept out of harm's way as much as we possibly can.

So huge challenge in an area that is not our backyard, and that really becomes a major issue for us and really will be very difficult to sort out should the Iranians decide to do something.

WHITFIELD: And what can you tell us about the real likelihood that the U.S. troops in Iraq would be you know, kicked out? I mean, we heard from our Arwa Damon that really it's the Shia Members of Parliament that, you know, had that vote, but it didn't involve Kurds and as well Sunnis.

And so is it that simple that collectively, you know, a majority could say, U.S. you have to leave especially after U.S. resources, money, military, U.S. lives, you know, we're cost and spent in that country for so long.

LEIGHTON: Well, I think, yes, this is just the first chapter, if you will, in the whole idea of getting us out, of expelling us from Iraq.

The government of Prime Minister Mahdi, as Arwa said, is a caretaker government. He does not have the requisite power to do this all by himself.

If he gets Kurdish support, which I don't see as being likely or if he gets Sunni support, which is also somewhat unlikely, then of course it would be different.

But I think that both the Sunnis and the Kurds are going to have a say in this and the Kurds, for one will not want to see U.S. forces leave. We they already experienced that in Syria -- in Northern Syria, they don't want to see that again in Iraq.

So one possible solution would be that all our forces redeploy to Kurdistan, the Kurdish areas of Iraq, and that could potentially be a solution in the future.

WHITFIELD: All right, Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you so much for your expertise. Appreciate it.

LEIGHTON: Oh, you bet, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, straight ahead. Witnesses or no witnesses, as the impeachment stalemate continues on Capitol Hill, some are questioning the political strategy moving forward in the format of a Senate trial.

We'll talk about it with one of the Republicans vying to replace President Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:23:06]

WHITFIELD: All right, more on today's breaking news out of Kenya. CNN has learned that one U.S. service member and two civilian Defense contractors were killed in Kenya when terrorist militants attacked a base used by U.S. forces along the coast.

This information coming from the Defense Department just moments ago. Joining me right now by phone, CNN Pentagon Reporter, Ryan Browne.

Ryan, what are you learning?

RYAN BROWNE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Well, Fredricka, we're learning that this military base where U.S. forces train Kenyan troops came under attack by Al-Shabaab. Now, that's a Somalia based terror group with links to al Qaeda and the U.S. has been supporting Somali and Kenyan forces in their fight against Al- Shabaab for some time, conducting airstrikes and training local forces.

But this is a fairly brazen attack, the first of its kind, we believe, to be mounted by Al-Shabaab against the U.S. military installation in Kenya.

We know that they attacked the base with small arms fire and indirect fire that's probably mortars in this case, penetrated the outer perimeter before they were repelled by local Kenyan forces and U.S. troops.

Now, we learned that one U.S. service member was killed during the attack, two contractors were also killed. Another contractor was wounded, and they also inflicted a lot of damage to some of the military aircraft that was present at this base.

Six contractor aircrafts were damaged, we're told. We're told by a Defense official that that include helicopters and planes, very valuable equipment damaged in this assault.

Unclear how many enemy forces participated in this attack, some local reports from the Kenyan side suggested that at least four attackers were killed during the assault.

The general commanding officer at Africa Command who oversees all U.S. troops on the continent has in a statement vowed that the U.S. and its local partners will pursue those responsible for this attack, expressing sympathy for those lives that were lost.

So again, a very brazen attack in Africa. The Al-Shabaab group had recently carried out a major terrorist attack in the capital of Somalia, Mogadishu. And so despite U.S. military efforts, they remain very much a threat to the U.S. and the local forces in the region.

[15:25:12]

WHITFIELD: And, Ryan, is it safe to say how many U.S. troops are stationed there?

BROWN: It's unclear. These are typically Special Operations Forces and the U.S. keeps their locations fairly quiet, fairly classified.

We do know that there are about 500 troops in Somalia, where they're battling -- helping local forces battle this terror group, and there are support forces nearby. Unclear how many troops are at this base, Manda Bay in Kenya, but it's significant given the aviation assets involved, given the presence of contractors, so a fairly significant U.S. military presence at this location.

WHITFIELD: All right, Ryan Browne, thank you so much for that update.

All right on to politics in the U.S., when might the Trump impeachment trial begin and what might it look like? Join co-anchors Jim Sciutto and Poppy Harlow for the latest developments and expert analysis, "The Impeachment of Donald J. Trump" live tonight. Seven o'clock. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, the war of words between the U.S. and Iran is growing louder with each passing day and today, another escalation between the two nations.

Iran says it will back out of a key provision in the 2015 Nuclear Agreement. The country announcing that it will continue its uranium enrichment program with no limitations, something that could move them toward developing a nuclear weapon.

I'm joined now by Jim Walsh. He's a senior research associate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and an International Security Analyst. Jim, good to see you.

JIM WALSH, SENIOR RESEARCH ASSOCIATE, MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY: Good to see you, Fred. Happy New Year.

WHITFIELD: Happy New Year. Oh, boy. And what a way to start. So what do you make now of Iran's announcement?

WALSH: Well, believe it or not, and this is going to be hard to believe it's sort of relatively good news.

WHITFIELD: What do you mean? WALSH: In a week of several days of terrible news. What do I mean by

that? So really, back since May, Iran was making announcements every 60 days, new announcements of how they were going to take a half step and then another half step, and then another half step away from the nuclear agreement as a way to put pressure on the Trump administration.

And so they've been doing that for a while, and this one was scheduled and everyone was expecting it. And given what happened in the last couple of days when we have, you know, essentially assassinated a senior military official in the Iranian government, it could have been a lot worse.

They did not say they were going to enrich to 20 percent. I think that's going to be a threshold for some people. Basically, they announced that hey, we're not obliged to do this. Now, we may change our mind. It's all reversible.

[15:30:03]

WALSH: But as far as we're concerned, we can enrich as much as we want, and they haven't started doing it. That's what they announced. So that's bad. Yes, that's in the bad category, but it's not as bad as it could have been.

WHITFIELD: You don't sound very worried at all. So I want to ask about the potential timeline that comes with this in a minute. But I do want to underscore that, you know, President Obama's former National Security adviser, Susan Rice kind of saw this coming.

She wrote an op-ed in "The New York Times" warning about this before this announcement happened and her op-ed says, "There is no hope now to revive, much less strengthen the Iran nuclear deal, and we must expect Iran will accelerate its efforts to revive its nuclear program without constraint."

And now here we go with Iran announcements. So what do you think this means for their advancement or a timeline?

WALSH: Yes, I definitely think this is a bad development. Absolutely. I don't think it's going to go quite like that. I don't think Iran unless it feels like it is being directly threatened, it knows how to build a centrifuge.

It can build a nuclear weapon, you know, given enough time if it wants to. It'll cross that line if it feels like it has to. We're not there yet.

Here's the scenario I'm a little more concerned about, and you're right to bring the nuclear track which has been separate and this ongoing tit-for-tat war since whenever because these two tracks are going to cross, and here's how they might cross.

Let's say Iran retaliates. They feel like they're justified retaliating, we escalate it, they respond. They do something we don't like, then after all the threats that the President has made, the U.S. feels compelled in an election year to follow through on its threats, and so it attacks Iran.

And so maybe the decision is made to attack their nuclear facilities, their enrichment facilities.

WHITFIELD: What would that do potentially?

JIM WALSH: If that were to happen, Iran will wake up the next day and say, oh, yes, we'll show you. We will build a nuclear weapon.

So if we keep going -- right now, we're moving in the wrong direction, and we're doing so at an accelerated pace as of the last couple of days. If we continue down that same track, at that same pace, we may be in a situation where we end up bombing nuclear facilities, and that triggers an Iranian nuclear decision.

WHITFIELD: So as it pertains to Iran's ballistic abilities right now, what is their potential here and now?

JIM WALSH: In terms of building nuclear weapons, or in terms of their conventional force?

WHITFIELD: Well, I'd say in terms of their conventional because that would be, you know, first, but long term, their nuclear capabilities, where are they right now in order to be a real viable threat to anywhere on anyone and anywhere on this planet?

JIM WALSH: You know, they are a great power -- they are great regional power, that is to say they are with Saudi Arabia, and in the old days, Iraq. You know, governments of substantial size and money and military equipment.

But you know, they don't compare it all to the United States, and Saudi Arabia certainly spends a lot more money than Iran does. So Iran is mostly focused on its own internal defense and stability.

It hasn't really, you know, it was invaded by Iraq. It hasn't been a country that's so far been inclined to invade other countries. It has a terrible Air Force. You know, its Army would be tough just because there are a lot of them. I'd say, it's a middling power for conventional forces.

But, you know, they know how to build a nuclear weapon. They haven't done it, but I'm sure if they put their mind to it. If they made it job one, they would be able to do it. And then we would be in a different situation.

WHITFIELD: because one of it's a Iranian official is already telling our Fred Pleitgen that it would respond militarily when it talks about harsh retaliation, it would respond militarily, and it would be to target U.S. military installations or interests and that could be anywhere.

JIM WALSH: You know, I took that -- yes, I took that as good news, actually, believe it or not, which seems weird.

WHITFIELD: You and your good news, I don't get it. JIM WALSH: Okay, just in this way. I think they're announcing -- I

may get this wrong now -- I think they're announcing that they're going military to military. You hit our military guy, we're going to hit a military target. So that means not civilian attacks or not other sorts of things.

It seems like they're going for proportionality. That would be positive. I prefer they don't attack at all, but if they are, I prefer that it be proportionate. And in the same way, you know, mil for mil, not involve other people, so -- but still it's not good news.

WHITFIELD: All still serious, all still frightening.

JIM WALSH: Right, I mean, we're bound -- there are many shoes left to drop here.

WHITFIELD: I got you. All right. Jim Walsh, always good to see you. Thank you so much.

JIM WALSH: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Coming up, the impeachment battle heats up. Should President Clinton's trial serve as a model for what's about to happen in the Senate potentially? We'll talk about that. Coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:37:48]

WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. Both chambers of U.S. Congress are back in town this week and it is shaping up to be a busy one.

Right now, negotiations over President Trump's impeachment trial remain at an impasse, and now, lawmakers are dealing with a new and pressing concern, rising tensions in the Middle East.

Joining me right now to discuss all of this is, is Republican Presidential Candidate and former Congressman Joe Walsh.

Joe Walsh, Congressman, good to see you, presidential candidate. So we'll talk more about Iran in just a second. But first though, I want to talk to you about impeachment because House Speaker Pelosi is refusing to send the Articles and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell says he is not going to bend to her demands, including, you know, calling for witnesses.

He says it should be using the same model of the Senate trial for Bill Clinton, but already we're hearing from Senator Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski, who are saying they're not completely on board with that.

What do you think is about to unfold here as it pertains to the shaping of a Senate trial?

JOE WALSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hey, Fredricka, good to be. I don't know, and none of us know. But here's the one thing we do know, it seems like almost every single day, we've learned more and more about what Donald Trump did when he seemingly pressured the President of Ukraine to help him cheat in the 2020 election.

Now, I think the American people deserve to know the truth of what President Trump did, and I wish the American people would demand a fair Senate trial. All of the evidence, all of the documents and witnesses in the trial, and it's going to be up to probably, Fredricka, a few brave Republican senators to demand a fair trial in the Senate, and I still think that will happen.

WHITFIELD: Do you think that could be as Susan Collins -- you think that could be as Susan Collins or Lisa Murkowski?

JOE WALSH: Yes, I really do. And I really do because again, the unfolding of events. I mean, the latest number of document drops where we've seen all of this information redacted and we've seen all of these e-mails that make very clear that all of this was done under the direction of President Trump.

[15:40:07]

JOE WALSH: I think a lot of this latest evidence is pressuring some senate Republicans like Collins and Murkowski and Romney to do the right thing and demand a fair trial.

WHITFIELD: We know that there are reports of most recently e-mails, some 20 e-mails involving O.M.B. officials with the White House refusing, you know, to hand over for anyone to see.

But meantime, you know, McConnell says he does want this trial to look like the same model used for the impeachment of President Clinton, but Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer says the Clinton impeachment model doesn't fit under these circumstances. This is what he had to say earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC HOST: You heard Senator McConnell say that let's follow the Clinton example. You go for the first two weeks, have the arguments from the lawyers on both sides and then have a vote, then consider whether that witness is to come forward. What's wrong with that?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Where, but in "Alice in Wonderland" do we here all the arguments and then maybe have the evidence, the witnesses and the trial.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But that was the Clinton model though.

SCHUMER: That's -- well, the Clinton model is totally different. Two reasons. One, they all had been heard from already. Every one of those witnesses had been heard from before.

These are four witnesses who are eyewitness to the main charge against the President. Shouldn't that man testify? Sixty four percent of Republicans agree. So I am hopeful that our Republican colleagues will come forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And he is talking particularly about Mike Duffy, you know, someone who may have authored or at least, his name is somewhere in those e-mails and knows things about U.S. military aid withheld from Ukraine.

So how does the White House continue to maintain that hearing directly from potential witnesses, we're seeing documentation isn't obstruction of Congress?

JOE WALSH: It is Fredricka, and they can't and they shouldn't and this is what is so damn crazy about the times we're living in right now. Throw the Clinton model out the window, throw all past and prior models out the window. This is Donald Trump we're talking about.

And Donald Trump has not allowed anybody to testify. Donald Trump has blocked all documents from being seen by Congress.

We've never ever been in this situation before, where the President of the United States has given his middle finger to another branch and not allowed them at all to do their job.

And I think because of that, I think Democrats and a few brave Republicans have to stand firm and demand that we see this because Fredricka, it's almost like with Trump, it's going on right before our eyes right now. The obstruction is continuing day by day.

WHITFIELD: So let me ask you now about Iran because just moments ago, President Trump tweeted that his social media account will serve as notification to Congress, and this is what he said, "These media posts will serve as notification to the United States Congress that should Iran strike any U.S. person or target, the United States will quickly and fully strike back and perhaps in a disproportionate manner. Such legal notice is not required, but is given nevertheless."

So what's your response to that as opposed to asking for, you know, congressional permission?

JOE WALSH: He is unfit. Look, every American, Fredricka, needs to be really scared right now. And the reason they ought to be really scared right now is because of who is in the White House.

We have a guy in the White House who doesn't read. He doesn't think. He doesn't understand. He doesn't listen. He doesn't take advice. He puts his own interests ahead of the nation's interest, and he doesn't tell the truth.

I mean, this is a scary time because of the recklessness and the impulsiveness of Donald Trump. And here he is, I mean, Fredricka, it was Saturday night last night. Last night, the President of the United States was tweeting about committing war crimes in Iran, bombing and blowing up historical and cultural sites.

WHITFIELD: You're talking about the cultural sites.

JOE WALSH: Yes. I mean, that's the President of the United States on a Saturday night, tweeting about committing war crimes. We all ought to wake up.

And I wish this -- I wish Republicans and Democrats could come together and provide a check on somebody who is in the White House, Fredricka, who is absolutely incompetent and unfit.

WHITFIELD: Former Congressman Joe Walsh, now presidential candidate. Joe Walsh, thank you so much.

JOE WALSH: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. And this stunning announcement from President Trump, he says Iranian cultural sites could be among those hit by the U.S. military if Iran indeed retaliates for that airstrike that killed Iran's top commander. We're live in Tehran with reaction.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:48:44]

WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. President Trump is warning Iran against any retaliation for the killing of its top military commander.

The President says 52 Iranian targets could be hit including some with cultural significance if Iran does retaliate for the death of Qasem Soleimani, who was killed in a U.S. drone strike on Friday.

U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo backed up the President's statements during an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper, who pressed him on whether Iran's cultural sites should be on the table.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POMPEO: President Trump's tweet last night made clear we will continue to do that and the American people should know we will always defend them and will do so in a way that is consistent with the international rule of law and the American Constitution.

TAPPER: So cultural centers are theoretically fair targets in your view?

POMPEO: Jake, we're going to do the things that are right, and the things that are consistent with American life. I've been I've been part of the discussion planning process, everything I've seen about how we will respond with great force and great vigor if the Iranian leadership makes a bad decision, we hope that they won't, but when they do, America will respond.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Joining me now to discuss, CNN Global Affairs Analyst, Kimberly Dozier. She's also a contributor for "Time" magazine and CNN's Fred Pleitgen joins us from Tehran. So good to see you both.

[15:50:04]

WHITFIELD: So Fred, from your vantage point, how is the U.S. President's threats, you know, being received in Iran about these 52 target locations that could include cultural sites?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, not very well at all. As you can imagine, both from the Iranian leadership to Iranian politicians, the clerical leadership of the country as well, and ordinary Iranians, if you look around social media, for instance, there's already Iranians out there posting pictures of Iranian cultural sites, saying, look, what would happen if these places would be bombed.

And of course, this is a country that has a lot of heritage and cultural sites that span back several millennia. It's one of the most ancient countries, one of the most ancient civilizations in the world and prides itself on its historical and cultural sites.

But then, also in an interview that we had today with an adviser to the Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, that adviser told me, look, he thinks it's a crazy thought from President Trump to even talk about wanting to hit or having cultural sites in their crosshairs.

He said that he thinks that President Trump is not of a clear mind as he put it. And he said, also that he believes that this would be a war crime.

And I think more importantly, he then went on to say, look, if they're going to put 52 targets out there, we will put 300 out there. And it's one of those things that we've been talking about.

Both sides saying they don't want all this to escalate any further, but both sides saying that they will retaliate if the other side does strike.

So it certainly seems as though there's kind of a vicious cycle in the making, while both the Iranians, the Trump administration are calling on either side to end that vicious cycle.

But as far as the cultural sites are concerned, when I mentioned that, in our interview today with this very high ranking official, he was clearly very angry about the fact that that was something that was even on the table -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Kim, intentionally taking out cultural, you know, sites in Iran. I mean, that would be a violation of international law. So how does a threat like this, how is it fitting with any peacekeeping efforts?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: It would be a violation and we're reporting at "Time" Magazine, one defense official has told us they're not aware of a target list with 52 different targets on it.

But that aside, the idea of hitting cultural sites, one thing it would do is further put the international community in the anti-U.S. camp in this whole event, because this had been a war fought in the shadows, the U.S. was very well aware, didn't publicize well some of the attacks that were happening, some of the plots that they were aware of, and they haven't shared with us the details of this big plot that they said they thought they were heading off. So what this has done, it has given Iran a way to blame the United

States and use it to do the thing Iran wants most, which is to lift sanctions.

WHITFIELD: Yes, and that number 52, the President had tweeted out that the number 52 is representative of the American hostages held in, you know, Tehran back in the late 70s. You know, before they were released in the early 80s. And that constitutes why that 52 number is one that he is touting right now.

So Fred, both you and Kim, you know, spend time covering Iraq, has Soleimani's death sparked the kind of nationalism in both Iran and Iraq that would make it particularly hard for the U.S. to exert any kind of leverage, whether it's in diplomacy or other efforts of peacekeeping, or stabilization?

PLEITGEN: Well, I think, Fredricka for Iran, I think it can certainly be said that the assassination of Qasem Soleimani certainly seems to have been, at least to a certain extent, a unifier for the Iranian population, and also for Iranian politics as well, which is a lot more divided than many people think.

And we saw video of parliamentarians in Iranian Parliament screaming "Death to America" after Qassem Soleimani was killed, and then you had these mass funeral processions that have been going on all over Iran, since Qasem Soleimani's body was brought back to Iran earlier today.

And you know, the Iranian government is known to rally large groups of people when they want a protest to happen, but they could never rally something of the magnitude, of the size as the protections that we've seen today in honor of custom Qasem Soleimani.

So certainly, it seems as though it's more of a unifier for the Iranian people and Iranian politics than essentially getting the Iranian population on America's side.

WHITFIELD: All right, we will leave it there. Fred Pleitgen and Kim Dozier, good to see both of you. Thank you so much.

All right, coming up, a turning point in the pews, the United Methodist Church considering a historic split over LGBTQ rights, will the proposal pass and what kind of impact would it have?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:56:57]

WHITFIELD: All right, it stands to be divisive New Year for the United Methodist Church. Its leaders are proposing a split into more than one denomination in a bid to resolve years of debate over LGBTQ issues.

CNN's Natasha Chen takes a deeper look at the conflict and the ripple effects to come if the proposal is adopted.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) NATASHA CHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): There's been little

unity in the United Methodist Church on the subject of homosexuality. Now, this wedge among their pews is set to burst wide open because of a proposal from 16 church leaders.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not an authorized group. It's been an ad hoc work that's been put together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN (voice over): The ad hoc group of 16 includes Bishop Thomas Bickerton of New York. He says the group met up after a contentious conference in February.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On the traditional plan, voting is now closed. Passes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN (voice over): The majority voted for the traditional plan, continuing to prohibit same sex marriages and LGBTQ people from being ordained.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The traditional plan values unity in doctrine. For United Methodists, the clarion call of the inspired Word of God burns in our hearts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN (voice over): Then in the fall, the ad hoc group came together with representatives from all factions of the church. In December, they unanimously agreed on a proposal to allow international groups to adopt their own church policies.

While in the United States, they would remove current restrictions against LGBTQ people and repeal the traditional plan, give $25 million over four years to the traditionalist denomination who is expected to leave the church and allocate $39 million over eight years to support communities historically marginalized by racism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But this provides a pathway for us to eliminate a 47-year debate that's been happening in this church and frankly, our people are tired.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN (voice over): Another member of the negotiating group, Reverend Keith Boyette represents the traditionalists. He described the agreement as the most hopeful development in a dispute that has undermined the health and vitality of both local churches and the denomination in general.

Reverend Brittany Isaac, who identifies as queer says she is still in limbo. Before this plan is approved, they are still guided by the traditional plan which took effect January 1st.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I keep waiting for an e-mail from my bishop to say that charges have been filed against me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN (voice over): She says she is concerned, but hopeful about what comes next. And it reminds her of the Old Testament conflict between twins Jacob and Esau.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After years of strife, they come together and then they essentially bless one another in part, and I hope that even though we have to separate, that it can be goodwill toward each other as we go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN (voice over): Natasha Chen, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And top of the hour now, I want to welcome our viewers in the U.S. and around the world. I'm Fredricka Whitfield, thank you so much for joining me this Sunday.

We begin with more on breaking news out of Kenya, a terror attack on a base there has left one U.S. service member and two civilian Defense contractors dead.

We are told this happened at a base in Manda Bay where U.S. forces were working with Kenya's military.

[16:00:10]