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Fallout Deepens After U.S. Killed Iranian General; Trump Threatens Sanctions on Iraq if U.S. Troops Expelled; Trump Doubles Down on Threat to Attack Iranian Cultural Sites; U.S. to Deploy 3,000 Additional Troops to Middle East; Iran Abandons Nuclear Deal Limits Over Soleimani Killing; Iranian General Who Replaced Soleimani Vows Revenge for Killing. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 06, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:38]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Very good Monday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.

Well, new threats, growing tension, the fallout deepening across the Middle East this morning after the death of Iran's top military commander. A sea of people lining the streets again in Tehran today. Iranian-state television claiming millions are there mourning the death of General Qasem Soleimani, one of Iran's most -- really the most powerful general in the region. A man blamed with having blood of Americans on his hands, the death of hundreds of Americans over the years.

The president says that Soleimani was planning, quote, "imminent and sinister attacks" on Americans before he was taken out. Now, Soleimani's replacement is vowing revenge, promising to remove the U.S. presence in the region entirely. The Iranian government says it will no longer abide by the 2015 nuclear deal, which could open the door -- which will open the door for future uranium enrichment -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: President Trump for his part is making new threats against adversaries and an ally, not backing off threats to target Iran's cultural sites. Two senior U.S. officials currently serving this administration told me there is widespread opposition within the administration to such a move. Why? Because it's against international law and the law of war.

And in Baghdad, the Iraqi parliament has voted to end the U.S. troop presence in the country. President Trump has warned that if they do kick out U.S. forces he will hit Iran with, quote, "very big sanctions," even bigger than those he has imposed on adversary Iran.

Back home more than 3,000 U.S. troops are set to deploy to the Middle East. And as the White House still refuses to release details of the imminent threat to Americans prior to this strike House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says she will present a war powers resolution to limit President Trump's military actions in Iran. Of course Democrats have majority in the House. That would go nowhere in the Senate. HARLOW: There you go. Good point.

OK. So let's go first to Tehran. Our Fred Pleitgen is live for us in the capital city.

We saw the protest immediately after Soleimani was taken out and they continue here. Is there any reason for Americans to believe at this point that the threat represented by and that the attacks planned by Soleimani are now gone just because he has been taken out?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, absolutely not. And that's certainly one of the things that we heard today from a lot of those protesters that we see, that we've heard also, from the Iranian government over the past couple of days as well. It was quite interesting to see that as Qasem Soleimani's body was there at the Tehran University mosque before it was brought through the streets here in Tehran, his replacement at the Revolutionary Guard Corps, he said that he was vowing revenge.

And it's something that Iranian officials have been telling us as well. They said look, we've already replaced Qasem Soleimani. Yes, he was a towering figure. Yes, he was a very important general, and of course someone who also was well-known in the entire region. But he capabilities of the Revolutionary Guard Corps to strike at will in any place in the Middle East they say is still exactly the same as it was before. So the Iranians vowing revenge.

Today, Poppy, when we were at that protest that was taking place, and that procession, that mourning procession of Qasem Soleimani's body and the bodies of all those others through Tehran, you could really feel some serious anger towards the United States on the ground there. It was a vibe that was different than I've seen in the past year in this country with people carrying placards that were saying two words, harsh revenge, Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Fred, you sat down with the military adviser to the supreme leader. And you listen to U.S. officials here.

PLEITGEN: Yes.

SCIUTTO: The president and Secretary of State Pompeo. They describe an Iran that is cowed by these attacks. I wonder as you sat across from the military adviser to the supreme leader, was that the sense you got?

PLEITGEN: No, absolutely not. I mean, the Iranians are essentially saying that they are going to strike back. I was able to speak to the main adviser, military adviser of Iran's supreme leader. And he was telling me quite frankly, he said, look, there's going to be retaliation. It's going to be in military form, it's going to be against military sites. They don't want a full-on war with the United States but they do say that this is something that is going to happen and that they have the capabilities for.

One of the other things, by the way, Jim, that they really are angry about, not just Iran's leadership, a lot of people here as well, was the fact that President Trump went out and tweeted that apparently the U.S. has 52 sites in Iran in its crosshairs, including sites that are important to Iran's culture, to Iranian culture.

[09:05:15]

They said if the U.S. does that, President Trump does that, Iran will also take off the gloves. Let's listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. GEN. HOSSEIN DEHGHAN, MILITARY ADVISER TO IRAN'S SUPREME LEADER (through translator): For sure no American military staff, no American political center, no American military base, no American vessel in the world will be safe. If he says 52 sites, we say 300, and they are accessible to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: So you can see the Iranian adviser there to the supreme leader still saying very much that Iran still has exactly the capabilities that it had before. The Iranians saying they are certainly going to retaliate. They do say they hope that it ends at that -- after that point in time. But of course right with the tensions so high here in Iran, and of course the entire Middle East, this does seem to be a situation that could get out of control pretty quickly -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Fred Pleitgen, threats on top of threats from each side. Thanks very much.

CNN correspondent Jomana Karadsheh, she is live in Baghdad.

So we now have this vote to expel U.S. troops from Iraq. And Jomana, you know as well as me that many Iraqi politicians will say in public, yes, we'd like the troops to go but in private they'll say, well, indeed, please stay. We need you here.

I just wonder, is the dynamic on the ground different now in light of this attack? Is there more of a political push there and is this threat likely to be acted upon?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Jim, I think the events of the past few days most definitely that unprecedented escalation with the strike that killed Soleimani and also Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, which had a huge impact here, that really put the government under a lot of pressure. The political leadership was under pressure from the streets, the majority of the Shiite population here.

And of course those Iranian-backed proxies on the ground, threatening, telling parliament that they will be watching how that vote is going to go, what they are going to do about the presence of U.S. forces. So yesterday we saw this determination by these Shia members of parliament.

Really, Jim, we have to mention that those who were in parliament yesterday, it was almost all Shia parliamentarians. The Sunnis were not really there. Just a few Sunni parliamentarians and the Kurds boycotted. But, you know, it was really reflective of how the majority of the population here feels, and that is the Shiites. And they say they want U.S. forces out.

Now the question is, you have this vote, this resolution by the Iraqi parliament. There are questions about the legality of this, how this is actually going to be implemented, because you've got a caretaker government that is in place right now. But we heard from the prime minister, the caretaker prime minister, Adil Abdul-Mahdi, it was absolutely stunning, Jim. He sat there making an argument for why parliament should actually vote to get U.S. and coalition forces out of this country basically saying they have no option because Iraqi Security Forces are not going to be able to protect them and their bases in this country considering this latest escalation and the rising threats -- Jim, Poppy.

HARLOW: And this, Jomana, as the U.S. sends thousands of additional troops to the region and Iran threatens military action against military sites in response.

Before you go, what -- the message from the Iraqi president, though, this morning is a call for unity. But you just explained how deep the division is now among Iraqis on this as exemplified by that vote in the parliament yesterday.

KARADSHEH: Absolutely. And this is the concern that you are seeing these divisions emerging again because we have seen this in Iraq over the years, whatever these political divisions are that tends to turn into violence. And that is always the concern with the sectarian and ethnic divisions in this country. Of course there are some who fear that once the U.S. forces leave this country, if they do leave this country, that this is only going to empower these Iranian-backed groups on the ground. And what will this mean for the rest of the population, especially Sunni Arabs in this country -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Jomana, thank you for being there, you and your team. We really, really appreciate it. Your presence is invaluable.

So the president says he is not backing down from his threats to potentially strike dozens of Iran's cultural sites.

Boris Sanchez is live for us at the White House. This comes as two U.S. officials describe to CNN widespread opposition -- this is Jim's reporting -- to doing that. I mean, namely because it would constitute essentially a war crime, right? Violate a U.N. resolution from just a few years ago that the U.S. was a signatory to. But the president does not see it that way.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Precisely, Poppy.

[09:10:01]

We actually just heard from counselor to the president, Kellyanne Conway. She told me and several other reporters that some Iranian cultural sites are also military sites. So now what you're seeing is the administration sort of trying to recast these cultural sites as legitimate targets. She also cited Secretary of State Pompeo yesterday on the Sunday morning talk shows saying that the United States would act within the law in responding to any of Iranian aggression.

However, we should point out that Pompeo also said that Trump wasn't considering these cultural sites as targets. The president himself contracting the secretary of State, being adamant about this one speaking to reporters on Air Force One headed back to D.C. from West Palm Beach, his estate at Mar-a-Lago. The president effectively accusing Iran of committing war crimes, too.

This is what the president said, quote, "They're are allowed to kill our people, they're allowed to torture and maim our people. They are allowed to use roadside bombs and blow up our people, and we're not allowed to touch their cultural sites? It doesn't work that way."

Also we must point out House Speaker Nancy Pelosi indicating yesterday that she would present to her caucus a resolution to try to limit some of the president's war powers. Kellyanne Conway scoffing at that saying that the president was well within his authority to attack Qasem Soleimani -- Jim, Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Boris Sanchez at the White House.

Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon this morning with more on these 3,000 troops about to deploy to the Middle East.

And Barbara, I'm curious, just for folks at home, what number, what will be the total U.S. troops in the Middle East now?

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Because the president has repeatedly added to, but also what's their job? Because principally the job had been fighting ISIS, a counter-terror role. Now that seems to be on hold to some degree. Are the troops there basically just to protect the other troops? What's the function?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, with the hold on ISIS operation indeed these additional 3500 or so troops that are moving to the Middle East this week, some initially left at the end of last week and days before that, that is, in fact, their job. They are there for so-called force protection, protecting U.S. bases, U.S. embassies, U.S. assets and interests in the region.

They are not going to be a force in combat against Iran by any stretch. That's not what they were equipped for. If you were to have some full-scale war, combat operations against Iran, that's going to be something from the air and the sea, not a land force. So, you know, go to the map that we have for a minute. You know, it shows the dispersal of tens of thousands of U.S. troops across the region.

And that is all potentially an Iranian target list. That is the real challenge here. How do you go ahead and protect all of this? Defenses have been increased, force protection has increased, security awareness has been uptick, but this is going to be a real challenge and how long do you maintain this enhanced posture. Can you really do it forever?

Because remember, so you have these initial forces going. But they don't stay forever. They come home. Other forces have to go in and replace them. So this could be a very long-term new troop commitment in this region.

HARLOW: Look, and this is an administration that has vowed time and time again to end endless wars and now a major, major escalation of forces.

Thank you, Barbara. We appreciate it.

STARR: Sure.

HARLOW: More on the president digging in on the threats to attack Iranian cultural sites. If he actually does that, Jim, it would be huge, it would be a war crime. It's something, you know, as you've noted -- you know, was even avoided in World War II.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes. And that's why you have members of his own administration who oppose it.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Plus lawmakers back this week, and as we wait for Speaker Pelosi to send the articles of impeachment to the Senate, we are learning the House will introduce a vote on a war powers resolution to limit the president's military actions on Iran. Of course what passes in the House won't likely pass in the Senate but we'll continue to follow it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CO-ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: President Trump is reiterating his threats to potentially attack Iranian cultural sites. The president said last night on Air Force One, quote, "they're allowed to kill our people. They're allowed to torture and maim our people. They're allowed to use road-side bombs and blow up our people, and we're not allowed to touch their cultural sites? It doesn't work that way."

JIM SCIUTTO, CO-ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: We're joined now by retired U.S. Army Colonel Peter Mansoor, who served as aide to General Petraeus during the Iraq war, and Karim Sadjadpour; an Iran expert and senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Thanks to both of you.

Karim, you know Iran well, you know the region well. You tweeted yesterday that attacking cultural sites in your words is the most asinine idea. And I've spoken to members of this administration, senior who seem to agree. I mean, beyond that, that it's against international law. Tell us why that matters, I mean, the president, as he often does seems to say, well, they do bad stuff, so we should be able to do bad stuff, too. Tell us your response to that argument.

KARIM SADJADPOUR, IRAN EXPERT: Well, Jim, gratuitously destroying Iran's cultural sites is just such an incredibly destructive and counter-productive thing to do. Iran is one of the world's oldest nations, and this is something that Iranians take great pride in their ancient history. And if you actually are trying to counter the Shia radicalism of the Iranian regime, the best way to do that is actually by trying to promote the idea of Persian nationalism.

And so, President Trump threatening to destroy Iranian cultural sites would truly be the one thing that would unite all Iranians against him. I actually don't buy the idea that all Iranians are united now after the assassination of Qasem Soleimani.

[09:20:00]

I think Qasem Soleimani was a polarizing figure. There're some folks in Iran who passionately support him, others who don't support him. But destroying Iranian cultural sites would truly unite all Iranians against Trump and the United States.

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HARLOW: Colonel, let's talk about -- given your decades of experience in the region. What is playing out now in the aftermath? Look at live pictures, these are live pictures out of Iran. The streets have been essentially filled with protesters and anti-America chants since the news of his death broke late on Thursday night.

You now have an Iran that yesterday announced that it's abandoning all, even the final limitations of the nuclear deal, which means their Iranian enrichment will accelerate quickly. And you have the president now threatening sanctions on Iraq, our ally, which if that were to happen, I would read that as just making Iran more powerful in Iraq. What is the plan here by the administration?

PETER MANSOOR, RETIRED U.S. ARMY COLONEL: I don't think the administration has a plan. They needed to re-establish deterrents after a series of Iranian provocations and attacks --

HARLOW: Yes --

MANSOOR: Across the Middle East including on our forces. But they went a step too far --

HARLOW: Right --

MANSOOR: With no after -- no plan for the aftermath. This is playing right into Iran's hands. Iran has three goals, and they're accomplishing them all. Solidify support for the regime, get U.S. forces out of Iraq and crack the U.S. alliance in the Middle East. And unfortunately, Iran is winning right now.

SCIUTTO: Karim, help us get to Iran's calculus here on retaliation. You know, as well as I do, the Iranian regime is not suicidal. And they often -- you know, they calibrate their responses here. On the other hand, you look at those protests in the streets, there's enormous ground swell of domestic support for revenge. You hear those calls there. Can Iran not respond and how severely do you think they do and where?

SADJADPOUR: Jim, they have to respond in a pretty forceful way. But at the same time, they obviously don't want to provoke a major American counter response. One of the things Iran has become very effective at doing is operating via proxy. And these days, the proxies are operating drones. So, as another layer of deniability.

You know, my sense is that we have to really widen the aperture and consider not only attacks on U.S. outposts and U.S. interests, but also U.S. allies not only in the Middle East, but throughout the world. And my sense is that, this is going to be something that -- you know, we're all focused on this at the moment. And so, Iran is unlikely to do something in the next 48 hours. But --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

SADJADPOUR: They're not forgetting about this three months from now, six months from now when we're in the general election campaign in 2020 --

HARLOW: Yes --

SADJADPOUR: Which I think is going to put Trump in a very difficult position because on one hand, if he doesn't respond to Iranian provocations, he's going to risk losing weak, if he does respond, he risks a war which he knows his base doesn't want. So, I think --

HARLOW: Right --

SADJADPOUR: Iran's goal is really to make Trump a one-term president.

HARLOW: You know, Colonel Karim said something, that with -- in fact, saying, I wonder if you agree with that assessment, the political motivations here among the Iranians. But also Karim's note earlier that, you know, essentially, who would have been planning the response here? It would have been Qasem Soleimani.

So, who now is planning that response, and what does it tell you about what Iran's response will be to the U.S. whenever it comes.

MANSOOR: Well, this was the thing about killing him, although I don't shed any crocodile tears --

HARLOW: Sure --

MANSOOR: About his demise. His number two just stepped up into his position. So, there's no change in their --

HARLOW: Yes --

MANSOOR: Iranian strategy. There's really -- there's a little bit of -- you know, they lost a little bit of leadership capability of Soleimani. But his number two is taking over and things will continue. Now, I will say that if proxy forces around the Middle East attack U.S. forces, this president is likely to respond with force against Iran proper. So, I don't think that gives them any deniability at all from this point on, especially with this very unpredictable president.

SCIUTTO: It's remarkable stuff. Karim, finally, before we go, you talk about the use of proxy forces there. We saw that, in effect, in the attack on the Saudi oil facilities, right? Because you know, those drones and those cruise missiles that came in were not waving the Iranian flag, although U.S. Intel --

HARLOW: Right --

SCIUTTO: No doubt who it was, but they did it in that kind of proxy war, hybrid war, shadow war kind of way there. Give us a list of possible -- I don't expect you to look at a crystal ball, but possible categories of targets then for Iran.

[09:25:00]

SADJADPOUR: Well, again, if your goal, Jim, is to try to cause Trump damage in his re-election campaign, you want to do things which will spike the price of oil, so Americans feel it in their pocketbooks. And I can tell you that, you know, regional leaders like the leaders in Saudi Arabia are really afraid of Mike Pompeo leaving to go run for Senate in Kansas, because they see him as a real ally.

They don't see President Trump as a real ally because they're worried that President Trump is not going to stick his neck out if Iran goes after Saudi Arabia --

HARLOW: Right --

SADJADPOUR: Or goes after Dubai.

HARLOW: Karim, that's a great point. I mean, "The Washington Post" piece that crossed overnight explaining just how long the campaign Mike Pompeo has forged on Iran to get the president to this point was really telling there of how much of a role he played in all this. Gentlemen --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HARLOW: Thank you both for your expertise this morning, we appreciate it. In the middle of an impeachment standoff in Congress, the house is looking to crack down on the president's future ability in terms of military action on Iran. What Nancy Pelosi is calling for this week, that resolution, we'll take you live to the Hill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:30:00]