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Trump Reiterates Threat to Target Iranian Cultural Sites; Iran Pulls Out of Nuclear Deal after U.S. Strike; Attack on Kenya Military Base Kills 3 Americans; Australian PM: Climate Change Tied to Bush Fires. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired January 06, 2020 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[00:00:00]

NATALIE ALLEN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello everyone and welcome to our continuing coverage of the escalating crisis in the Middle East. I'm Natalie Allen.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Michael Holmes. Welcome everyone.

ALLEN: Well, there are mounting consequences for the U.S. killing of Iran's top commander and calls from U.S. allies for restraint and de- escalation.

HOLMES: Yes, right now huge crowds are filling the streets of Tehran to mourn Qassem Soleimani, hours after his body arrived in the capital. Funeral processions taking place in cities all over across Iran.

ALLEN: And Iran is taking, yet, another step back from the nuclear deal now, announcing the country will abandon limitations on enriching uranium. But, it will continue to cooperate with the U.N. nuclear watchdog.

HOLMES: President Donald Trump reiterating his threat to target Iranian cultural sites if Tehran retaliates afore (ph) the U.S. strike. That would be a war crime -- considered a war crime under international law.

ALLEN: And Iraq's Parliament called for a U.S. and other foreign troops to leave the country, underscoring growing fears the U.S. strike will trigger a regional war.

Well, President Trump is threatening sanctions on Iraq if U.S. troops are expelled. He says, it costs billions to build an airbase there and that Americans aren't leaving unless pays the U.S. back for it.

Jomana Karadsheh is in Baghdad and joins us now with the latest. Iraq, Jomana, is certainly caught between a rock and a hard place here.

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It really is, Natalie, and we heard that from the Iraqi Prime Minister yesterday, as he was addressing Parliament and that stunning move basically making the argument for why the Iraqi Parliament should vote in favor of U.S. and foreign forces leaving Iraq.

He said, basically over the past few months they have seen the tensions rising between the United States and Iran, a proxy war that was playing out here in Iraq.

And he said, it was heading towards a confrontation slowly and that's what they saw happening over the past week. And after that unprecedented escalation with the strike on Friday that killed Soleimani, this it for Iraq.

They really do not want this confrontation, a possible war to -- to -- to be playing out here in Iraq. They don't want this country to become a battlefield, an arena for the United States to settle scores here.

So, he said, we have two options right now, either try and limit the mission of these foreign forces in Iraq, which is going to be very difficult, he said, and the fact that they're not going to be able -- the Iraqi security forces will not be able to secure the basis with the tensions that are rising.

And he said, that leaves them with one option, and that is to work towards the immediate ending of the presence of U.S. forces, and that is what the Iraqi Parliament voted for yesterday.

So, now there are obviously legal and procedural issues that the Iraqi government, it's a caretaker government that is going to have to work through this to end the mission of the coalition forces here in -- in Iraq.

And we've heard the threats from President Trump through that tweet. We haven't had a reaction yet. It is very early in the morning for the Iraqis, but certainly, Natalie, this is not going to go down very well here.

ALLEN: I wouldn't image. And you've got to think about sanctions and what the impact could be, due to the very weak economy there in Iraq, Jomana.

KARADSHEH: Well, I mean, you know, you always have this with President Trump, right? He always uses sanctions as the threat against different countries.

Now threatening one of their main allies in the region with sanctions, without really trying to understand where Iraq is coming from, where they are making the point that they really do now want this country to be dragged into a war that is being caused, pretty much, by the U.S. actions, like President Trump's decisions.

And, when it comes to sanctions, you know, President Trump saying that they'll hit them with sanctions like they've never seen before, this country has gone through some of the toughest sanctions under the Saddam regime, that many Iraqis will tell you, were some of the harshest years of their lives. And, you know, right now the Iraqi economy, according to the world

bank, has actually been doing well. There have been improvements when it comes its GDP, some increases. Also, but keeping in mind Natalie, at the same time the Iraqi population is quite fed up, as we have seen in recent months.

They have been taking to the streets in protest because of the economic situation, because they haven't been feeling any change in the economic situation, because they have been suffering from poverty and unemployment.

[00:05:16]

So, any sort of sanctions, of course, will impact the country. But more importantly, it's the message that this sends. And the -- you know, the impact this will have, I think this will only cause an increase in anti-American sentiments that we are seeing again here.

When you have Iraqi's, again, whether are (ph) Parliamentarians yesterday or others on the streets, who pretty much for the first time in a very long time are now chanting death to America. This will only increase these anti-American sentiments, Natalie.

ALLEN: Right, they have been suffering a long time and now this certainly makes their lives all the more complex. Jomana Karadsheh, we appreciate your reporting. Jomana, thank you.

HOLMES: Now, a top Iranian official says the Islamic Republic will respond militarily to the U.S. attack. In an interview with CNN, the military adviser to Iran's supreme leader said the country would retaliate against military sites. He also warned President Trump against targeting Iranian cultural sites.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOSSEIN DEHGHAN, MILITARY ADVISER TO SUPREME LEADER OF IRAN: For sure, no American military staff, no American political center, no American military base, no American vessel in the world will be safe. If he says, 53 sites, we say 300. And they're accessible to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Trita Parsi joins me now from Washington. He is Executive Vice President of the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft and author of, "Loosing an Enemy; Obama, Iran and the Triumph of Diplomacy."

We -- we speak again, it's that kind of week. There's so many strands in what is an increasingly worrying situation. Let's just start with something that was pretty concerning coming from the Iraqi Prime Minister and then we'll move on.

He said he was scheduled to meet with Qassem Soleimani the morning he was killed. Said, Soleimani was bringing him a message from Iran. He also said he received a phone call from Donald Trump asking him to mediate. Does it sound to you like a potential mediation effort was scuttled by this killing?

TRITA PARSI, THE QUINCY INSTITUTE FOR RESPONSIBLE STATECRAFT: I fear so, because this is what actually happened in the last couple of months. After the -- after the Trump Administration, back in the summer, opted not to go to war with Iran after the Iranians had shot down an American drone, the Saudi's and the UAE drew the conclusion that they could not count on the Trump Administration to defend to them or to essentially go to war with Iran on their behalf.

What happened then was, that they then realized they had to start diplomacy with Iran. And quietly the Saudi's have been exchanging messages with Iranians through the Iraqi government. The UAE has had much more open diplomacy with the Iranians, with their officials actually going to Tehran. So, we saw that once the U.S. was not going to go to war, the regional actors, themselves, started to realize that they're better off engaging in diplomacy.

And according to the Iraqi Prime Minister, part of that effort was that the Iraqis were mediating between Iran and Saudi Arabia, and Soleimiani was coming back with a response to the Saudis, from a message to Saudi's that sent the Iranians through the Iraqis, he was coming there with their response to the Saudi's on how to reduce tensions. And that's when the U.S. killed him.

HOLMES: And then he was killed, which -- and it's extraordinary. And this is -- this is coming from the Iraqi Prime Minister as well. Now, speaking of Iraq, there was this vote in the Iraqi Parliament, demanding the government work towards ending the presence of U.S. troops on Iraqi soil. And then on top of that, you get Donald Trump saying, he would sanction Iraq if that happened. And -- I mean, it's all head spinning stuff.

PARSI: It certainly is, because Trump is the person who actually campaigned on a promise of ending these endless wars and bringing the troops home. I mean, he's complaining about this all the time, and he's saying it because he knows the American public wants the troops to come home.

Now he has his best possible excuse, that Iraqi Parliament recommended that the U.S. should leave. So, he should take up on that. Instead, now, he's saying he's not leaving unless he gets paid. But, there's no basis for the United States to be in Iraq if the Iraqi government asks them to leave.

The only basis why the U.S. is there right now is because the Iraqi government asked for U.S. support in the fight against ISIS. If that request has come to an end, the U.S. should be leaving. And frankly, it would be better for the U.S. itself if it left.

HOLMES: It's absolutely extraordinary, isn't it? I mean, there was -- you had the Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, talking -- the Sunday talk shows and among other things he said, we took a bad guy off the battlefield, made the right decision, less risks today to the American forces in the region as a result of it.

[00:10:00] I mean, Iran, its proxies, Hezbollah and others would beg to differ. It is hard to see how he makes that conclusion.

PARSI: Well, if it is so that there's a less of a risk, why is it so that the U.S. State Department asked all Americans to leave Iraq immediately? If this actually had made Iraq more safe and Americans in Iraq more safe, then such a very alarming request by the State Department would not have come out. It specifically said that they should leave immediately. The airport in Baghdad has been filled with Americans leaving Iraq right now. They're not leaving because Iraq has been made more safe.

HOLMES: Extraordinary. I mean, you know, one thing that occurred today - you know, when you stand back from all of this and the stuff that's been going on the last few days, and take a look at the region. You know, you've got - you've got the Shiites are furious with the U.S. Sunni states are worried about what's happening in the neighborhood. You've got ISIS regrouping. The Kurds feel betrayed. Iran and Donald Trump are tweeting threats at each other. I mean, what do you - what do you see when you take that broad view?

PARSI: Well, I certainly don't believe anyone has been made more safe. This is an absolute disaster. This is taking the entire region to the brink of war. This is not good for the United States itself, and I think most Americans will recognize and realize whether they do it immediately or not that if there are reprisals and American soldiers are dead, clearly the Iranians will be responsible if they are the ones who did it, but Trump will also be responsible because he's the one who started this.

HOLMES: Where does it go from here? What's your - what are your thoughts? What happens now (ph)?

PARSI: Well, the question to a very large extent depends on if the Iranians - what the Iranians decide to do. I fear that there will be some sort of reprisal, but what exactly that will be remains to be seen. The signals they've been sending in interviews to CNN, for instance, that - is that they're going to follow their rules of proportionality, which means a military person was targeted, so they will target a military person or a military asset in response.

If that is the case, than at least perhaps this will not lead to some sort of a major terrorist act that will kill a lot of civilians, but again, we're all speculating because we don't know, and I suspect that what the Iranians will do they will do it in such a way that it will surprise the world.

HOLMES: That's very worrying, and yes, you just hope you don't get into tough-guy stuff where it escalates just based on huberous (ph).

PARSI: Absolutely.

HOLMES: Trita, good to see you as always. Thank you.

PARSI: Thank you for having me. Thank you. ALLEN: Well, many in Tehran are now paying their respects to Qasem Soleimani. The Iraqi Prime Minister says Iran's top general wanted to ease tensions between Tehran and Saudi Arabia. We will go live to Riyadh with more on that just ahead here.

HOLMES: Also when we come back, Iran says it no longer needs to negotiate with the U.S., but does this mean all hope for diplomacy is lost? We'll talk about that, too, after the break.

(COMMERICAL BREAK)

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ALLEN: You're looking at live video here from the Iranian capital as prayers are being said this hour at Tehran University's mosque for Qasem Soleimani.

HOLMES: Iran's top general, of course, killed on Friday in that U.S. drone strike. His body will later be taken to Tehran's Azadi Square. The Iraqi Prime Minister says Soleimani was on a mission in Baghdad. He had come to the Iraqi capital to talk about deescalating tensions between Iran and the Saudis. Let's get some perspective on that from our Nic Robertson. He's live for us in the Saudi capital, Riyadh. Hello, Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, hello, Natalie. It's not quite clear what the Iraqi Prime Minister was referring to, and certainly from the Saudi side here we're not getting details of what this message that the Iraqis had passed on for them to Tehran. But, you know, look. When we look at what's recently happened here and the public statements by Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia's been very clearly calling for Iran to cease and desist. It's what they see as expansionist agenda in the region by backing up proxies like the Houthis in Yemen who fired Iranian-made ballistic missiles at the capital here in Riyadh. They've been very clear about this. They've been wanting support from the United States on this.

But also there's a - there is that other picture here from Saudi Arabia, of course, and that is that, you know, there was an attack on their - on two of their oil refineries just about three months ago, and there's no doubt in anyone's mind here that those attacks were perpetrated by Iran from Iranian territory.

Now, the Saudis have avoided saying that publically, and part of the reason that they haven't said that publically is they didn't want to escalate tensions with Iran in the sort of public arena so to the point where, you know, one side would be forced to act against the other side, where the Saudis would be forced to take retaliatory action against Iran. So they hadn't publically accused Iran of being the base where those - where that complex drone and missile attack was launched from.

So this conversation, this message that the Iraqi Prime Minister was talking about may very well have been a back channel deescalating the tensions that had arisen from Iran's strike on Saudi Arabia that had taken out more than half of its oil supply, but certainly now obviously that, with Soleimani's killing, that back channel sort of comes to a - it comes to a dead end. So that will raise concerns about the possibility of escalation here, and that's Saudi Arabia's public message to the United States and Iran at the moment to not escalate this situation further.

ALLEN: Right, and they'll be meeting with Secretary of State Pompeo to talk about that, and we'll be - we're covering that as well. Nic Robertson for us in Riyadh. Thank you, Nic.

HOLMES: Well, as tensions rise, some world leaders expressing concern, calling for de-escalation in a joint statement. The French President, Emmanuel Macron, the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, and the British Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, said in part, quote, "We call on all parties to exercise upmost restraint and responsibility. The current cycle of violence in Iraq must be stopped."

And Ambassador Christopher Hill joins me now. Among many other things, the former U.S. Ambassador to Iraq, also professor at the University of Denver. Always good to get you on. You are a former ambassador. How's the last couple of days been for diplomacy?

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CHRISTOPHER HILL, FMR. U.S. AMBASSADOR TO SOUTH KOREA AND IRAQ: Well, pretty extraordinary. I mean, I guess the question many Americans are asking is what's the context of this? I mean, we go after Qasem Soleimani, by the way not a very nice guy (inaudible), but what are we trying to accomplish in that? What's the longer-term plan? So we're not seeing a lot of that.

And then the second thing we don't quite see is what is the - what procedures are being followed? Do we have a National Security Council? Do we have a National Security Council staff who puts up decision memos in front of the president? How is he notifying Congress? All kinds of questions about how this is being handled, and frankly, you know, I'm almost as worried about the affect of this on the United States as I am the affect of this in the Middle East.

HOLMES: Yes, well, indeed. I mean - I mean, we've seen quite literally Trump governing by tweets. I mean, talking about things like disproportionate force against Iran, which of course isn't allowed international laws of conflict, saying he doesn't have to notify Congress of military action against Iran, which he absolutely does, and threatening Iraq - not Iran, Iraq with sanctions.

HILL: Yes.

HOLMES: It's hard to get your head around it.

HILL: Yes, it's very hard, and you know, one can only imagine what the Iraqi government - they have a caretaker, a Prime Minister, Adil Abdul-Mahdi. I knew him very well when I was in Iraq. Very moderate, careful guy. He's really tried to manage a very tough situation. There have been demonstrations after demonstrations. He's been accused of being an Iranian supporter, which he is not. And so, he has had to kind of take the lead in the parliament and try to kind of slow this thing down by saying, you know, I look forward to, you know, getting foreign forces out while that hasn't been easy to be said and, of course, President Trump picked up on it because he's never really talked to this person. I think he talked to him on the phone once from when he visited troops in Iraq is the only time.

So this is really kind of chaotic, and again, it leaves our procedures kind of shattered and with a question that many people have is, you know, what's the difference between us and some very unsophisticated place (ph)?

HOLMES: Yes, I mean, you know, the U.S. is kicked out. First of all, it's Iraq choosing Iran over the U.S., but losing that footprint, that's got to severely impact how the U.S. deals with a resurgent ISIS and any other number of regional threats.

HILL: You know, for the casual American observer all this - of all this, although I wouldn't say any American is right now being casual about it, it is hard to understand. On the one had, we have something called ISIS, a very, very extremely Sunni group, and then on the other hand we go out and get someone who is known for his affiliation to very extremist Shiah groups. And I think for many Americans they get confused by all this. Vice President Pence was suggesting that Soleimani was helping ISIS. Questions like this, I mean, not understanding that in the Middle East the enemy of your enemy is often still your enemy. And so, you have to kind of manage all that. And it requires a lot of knowledge, not to speak of wisdom (inaudible).

HOLMES: Yes, not a lot of nuance floating around. I mean, if you were advising Donald Trump right now, this minute after all that's happened, what would you tell him?

HILL: Well, I'd probably be the millionth person to have told him to get off Twitter. The second thing I'd do is to suggest that he reach out to all the European leaders and have good conversations with them. They're the ones who are really being affected by this. He should also speak to the Russians and the Chinese. And in particular he needs to address the issue of the Iran nuclear program because the Iranians - in the just the last few hours, the Iranians have announced that they're not going to abide by any of the - of the joint action plan of 2015. So he needs to have something to say to these countries, some suggestion of how he would like to go forward.

Again, I think everyone's looking for, you know, what's the plan? What is he trying to do? And from what we can tell, he's spent a couple of minutes banking up his prime (ph) to go after Soleimani, pointing out that neither Bush nor Obama had done it. He might have asked the question why didn't they rather than the question of you mean I would be the first. So again, this is a president who is not on top of his brief, but I think that is the major issue for us all.

HOLMES: The - you know, the thing that strikes me is that the administration has been talking, even Sunday, of de-escalation while literally at the same time escalating things with either actions or rhetoric.

[00:25:00] I mean, what would de-escalation look like now? What would an off ramp look like?

HILL: Hard to say because, you know, President Trump and Secretary Pompeo, they've made very clear that they want a not regime change named (ph). They certainly want the Iranians to kind of change a lot of things there, and they certainly have looked at the sanctions, which have essentially resulted in hardship for the Iranian people, that somehow the sanctions can lead to a better Iran. And again, while they're talking like this, they're also ratcheting up the pressure. I'm particularly concerned about the handling of Iraq because we are not in Iraq because we want to be there. We're there because we have to be there, and we have to make sure that ISIS, which has the capability and showed the capability, to strike at targets far away from its home base. But we need to make sure that ISIS is not going to be reconstituted, and right now these are pretty good days for ISIS as the U.S. decides what to do about these Shiah groups.

So a lot of problems. Again, I don't see a lot of diplomacy. The president always talks about how he's opposed to these endless wars. Well, he's had an endless war against American diplomats, and maybe it's time that he understands he needs a few of them if we're going to get through this.

HOLMES: Ambassador Christopher Hill, always a pleasure to get your insights. Thank you so much.

HILL: Thank you very much, Michael. Good to talk to you.

ALLEN: Yes, we enjoy his insights, but meantime the White House? Well, it shows no signs of backing down

HOLMES: Yes, how Donald Trump is doubling down, in fact, on his threats to Iran as tensions rise between the two countries. Also, we've got this. Australia's Prime Minister criticized over his response to the deadly bushfires scorching his country.

ALLEN: Hear what he's saying now as thousands flee.

(COMMERICAL BREAK)

ALLEN: Welcome back. U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is defending the U.S. president's recent strike in Iran, and there's no signs of the U.S. backing down.

[00:31:00]

HOLMES: Yes. Just hours ago, in fact, Donald Trump reiterating his threat to target Iranian cultural sites as he was on his way back to the White House. Sarah Westwood with the details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump returned to Washington on Sunday night against the backdrop of uncertainty surrounding his Senate trial and chaos in the Middle East, after the president decided, at his Mar-a-Lago resort, to take out the commander of Iran's security and intelligence services.

And on Saturday, the president threatened to hit Iranian cultural sites if Iran struck any American or any American asset. That threat has sparked a backlash among critics.

But the president doubled down on that threat as he headed back to Washington on Air Force One. I want to read you part of what he told reporters during t that conversation. "They're allowed to kill our people. They're allowed to torture and maim our people. They're allowed to use roadside bombs and blow up our people, and we're not allowed to touch their cultural site? It doesn't work that way."

Now, Democrats, for their part, have expressed skepticism that the intelligence the administration cited as the reason for taking out this Iranian leader was urgent enough to warrant this level of military action. Democrats have also expressed concern that the administration has thought through the implications of this move. Take a listen.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): I really worry the actions the president took will get us into what he calls another endless war in the Middle East. He promised we wouldn't have that, and I think we're closer to that now because of his actions.

WESTWOOD: Now, meanwhile, the future of the president, impeachment trial in the Senate, remains in a state of limbo. While the president was at his resort for nearly two weeks surrounding the holidays, he was asking advisers and aides who were with him who should represent him during that Senate trial, but White House officials have not been able to make concrete decisions about just what that strategy should look like, just who should play the exact top roles, because Speaker Pelosi hasn't yet made a move.

Sarah Westwood, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALLEN: Behnam Ben Taleblu joins me from Washington. He is a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.

Thanks so much for coming in.

BEHNAM BEN TALEBLU, SENIOR FELLOW, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: Great to be with you. Thanks for having me.

ALLEN: Sure thing.

Well, you said in an interview back in August, prior to the G-7 summit, that regarding Iran, it was important to deal with a nuclear threat before the terrorism threat. Well, now, as a result of dealing with terrorism and killing Soleimani, Iran says it will abandon the nuclear deal.

Let's begin with your thoughts on that development.

TALEBLU: While the nuclear threat is the most pressing threat, we have to deal with Iranian threats comprehensively, because one asymmetric threat tries another. Iran's interest in missiles begets its interest in a military nuclear program and vice versa, the fact that it's a week asymmetric -- a weak conventional power means that it's a strong asymmetric power. So there is a lot of symbiosis between the Iranian threat networks, whether it's missile, military, nuclear, cyber and whatnot.

But on the nuclear file, on the JCPOA, which is the 2015 Iran nuclear deal that the Trump administration left in May 8, 2018, Iran has had a policy of leaving this deal incrementally every 60 days starting May 8, 2019. Now, Iran's latest revelation, slated for January 6, is that it is removing the caps on its enrichment of uranium material you need to eventually get a nuclear weapon in the warhead. And this means that Iran has a lot more control over the scale, scope and direction of its enrichment program. At best, this is designed to weaponize the concept of fear in western countries and have America rush back into the same deal that it had previously called fatally flawed.

ALLEN: It will be interesting to see if that happens.

Let's talk more about the news of the killing of Soleimani. When it broke, the main message from experts on the Middle East said this will upend the region. It will have unintended consequences. We're already seeing that. 4

Now Iraq wants to get rid of U.S. troops. It's been kind of stuck in the middle. Iran is vowing revenge. What do you see this going, perhaps? Does anyone know?

[00:35:04]

TALEBLU: Well, the most important thing to remember is that Qasem Soleimani has been one of the most important drivers of instability in the Middle East, particularly in the heartland of the Middle East, Iraq and Syria, where the U.S. is currently there with the auspices of a counter-ISIS campaign.

Qasem Soleimani is actually one of the reasons why Israel and Saudi Arabia, previously two adversaries, are inching closer towards each other to offset the growing regional rising threat of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

So no doubt, Iran is going to look to try to escalate, try to retaliate. But interestingly, a member of Iran's parliament the other day said that they're looking for revenge, not war. So the Islamic Republic, once again, understands its own conventional military weaknesses. The question is how are they going to escalate against America? And in this case, in the year 2019, it's instructive. All the areas that Iran inflamed then are likely, once again, going to be inflamed in 2020.

ALLEN: Well, the president is threatening to impose sanctions on Iraq if U.S. troops are expelled. Iraq has been caught in the middle of this. What would the loss of American troops mean to that -- that country? TALEBLU: I think it would be devastating for U.S. national security

strategy for either Iraq to evict legally, through parliamentary process, changes the status of forces agreements prematurely, ending the counter-ISIS mission and the multinational counter-ISIS campaign. And simultaneously, it would be a mistake for the U.S. president to unilaterally withdraw American forces from the region. This, again, would be handing Iraq and the plains of Iraq to the successor of Qasem Soleimani, Esmail Ghaani. So Iran has already named a successor for Soleimani's position there.

So Iraq is going to be pivotal for the regional pushback on Iran, and that as the U.S. steps up pressure on the Islamic Republic, Iraq feels like it's between a rock and a hard place, to borrow a phrase.

Iraq has balance and band wagon (ph) width against America. Talk of sanctions right now against Iraq are premature. The reason is that the Iraqi parliament, especially the pro-Iran bloc in the Iraqi parliament, has used almost every opportunity in 2019 to try to evict America, and they failed. And the most recent resolution that people are signing is a non-binding one, so it's an expression of distaste with the American move to take out Soleimani. But American troops still are there. America needs to make sure Iraq is on its side as it pushes back against Iran.

ALLEN: Right. People in the streets are saying we want the U.S. out. We want Iran out. They've been in the streets, protesting the government. They don't have basic rights and services since the fall of Saddam Hussein. So this puts them in an awkward position as far as the citizens go.

He is the reason for much of the instability and the terrorism in the Middle East. I want to ask you. Other presidents considered assassinating but opted out. Mr. Trump did. And Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said this weekend the world is safer because of this action. Do you think it is?

TALEBLU: Just one quick note on the regional protests against Iran. While Iraqi nationalism is high, perhaps higher than it's ever been in the past two or three decades, it's clear who the primary target of the Iraqi people's ire is. It is almost definitely Iran. They are saying, Iran out.

So while there are some small factions bolstered by pro-Iran-backed Shia militias in the country of Iraq that are looking to point a finger at America, large swaths of the Iraqi population that were protesting in 2018, particularly in August and September, as well as starting in October 2019 and present, have been pointing a finger at Iran. And it's been the Iran-backed Iraqi Shia militias that have been slaughtering these protesters for exposing the role of its neighbor in Iraqi domestic politics.

As to the secretary's comments, I do agree that the Middle East is going to be safer without Qasem Soleimani, but this does not permit America to say that victory is accomplished, mission accomplished, to borrow a phrase, and leave the region. If anything now, Washington has to capitalize on this opportunity to limit Iran's escalation and to signal resolve to the Iraqis and to work again with local partners to make sure that they're going to actually be at and have the peace.

ALLEN: Thank you so much for your insights. And yes, I don't think we'll hear mission accomplished from an administration in the United States. We really appreciate your expertise. Behnam Ben Taleblu, thank you so much.

TALEBLU: Thank you so much.

HOLMES: Fascinating stuff. All right. We're going to take a short break. When we come back, some new details on that deadly terror attack in Kenya.

ALLEN: The target: American troops. We'll have reaction from the U.S. military.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:42:59]

HOLMES: Welcome back. An attack on a military base in Kenya has claimed the lives of three Americans.

ALLEN: The al Qaeda affiliate al Shabaab has taken responsibility for the attack at a Kenyan military base used by U.S. Special Operations forces.

HOLMES: One U.S. service member and two military contractors were killed in this. General Steven Townsend issuing a statement on behalf of the U.S. Africa Command, saying, quote, "As we honor their sacrifice, let's also harden our resolve. Alongside our African and international partners, we will pursue those responsible for this attack and al-Shabaab, who seeks to harm Americans and U.S. interests. We remain committed to preventing al-Shabaab from maintaining a safe haven to plan deadly attacks against the U.S., East African and international partners."

ALLEN: Kenya says at least five of the attackers were killed but not before they destroyed several planes and helicopters and other military equipment.

Our Farai Sevenzo is in Nairobi for us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FARAI SEVENZO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This Army base is very significant. This is where U.S. troops, including the U.S. Africa Command, have been conducting joint operations with African troops like the Kenyan Defense Forces to try and weed out al-Shabaab.

Now, it is the first time that al-Shabaab have attacked American troops on Kenyan soil.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: We turn now to Venezuela. Opposition lawmakers there have reelected Juan Guaido as leader of the National Assembly. HOLMES: Yes. He was sworn in at what was actually a rival session

outside of legislative palace with the votes of 100 lawmakers. Guaido still is recognized as Venezuela's interim president by more than 50 countries.

ALLEN: None of the pro-Maduro socialist congressmen took part in Sunday's opposition vote. Instead, they held their own vote hours earlier, installing their own assembly president, Luis Parra. The pro-Maduro group blocked opposition leaders from entering the building during that vote.

[00:45:01]

HOLMES: Well, another setback for Boeing's troubled 737 Max jet. The company acknowledging a potential design flaw with the plane's wiring.

ALLEN: "The New York Times" reporting that the placement of wiring in the tail could short circuit and lead to an accident. This is separate from the plane's previous problems.

Boeing spotted the issue during a safety review ordered by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration. The fleet has been grounded worldwide since March after two crashes killed more than 300 people.

HOLMES: When we come back, Australian officials trying to make the most of a small window of opportunity.

ALLEN: We are live in Australia as the mass evacuations are underway as those bush fires rage on.

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HOLMES: Welcome back. Major evacuations are underway in Australia, where deadly bush fires have claimed 24 lives since September.

ALLEN: Yes. The pictures continue to be devastating, like this driving shot right here. We are seeing widespread destruction of homes and livelihoods. It's been going on now for months.

Conditions eased in some regions on Sunday, but officials warn it will likely get worse in the coming days.

Australia's prime minister stressed climate change is contributing to the crisis.

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SCOTT MORRISON, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: Well, I should stress that there's no dispute in this country about the issue of climate change globally and its effect on, you know, global weather patterns. And that includes how that impacts in Australia.

Because I have to correct the record here. I've seen a number of people suggest that somehow, the government does not make this connection. The government, our leaders always made that connection, and that has never been in dispute. What we are focused on is what our response is. And we set that out

very clearly. And that will response, as it always has, will continue to be upgraded to ensure we meet the commitments that we have made.

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[00:50:04]

HOLMES: And Andrew Stevens joining us now from Canberra.

You know, the prime minister has been criticized for emphasizing the economy as more important than the environment. I mean, he's changing his tune there, but I mean, the criticism isn't that the link hasn't been made. It's just that there's -- they're not serious about carbon emissions and so on.

ANDREW STEVENS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Michael. Yes, the prime minister very clearly saying that we recognize that the climate is changing and Australia is getting hotter and drier. What he's not recognizing is the fact that carbon emissions in Australia is a major, not only exporter of fossil fuels but also user of fossil fuels.

He's not saying -- so he's not saying that there is a connection there that these manmade emissions are contributing to climate change.

In fact, it wasn't that long ago, just a couple of weeks ago in Madrid, where Australia was seen as something as a pariah for its stance on moving towards lower emissions. Australia set a target, a very, very soft target of dropping its emissions something like 28 percent by -- from 2005 levels by 2030. And most observers, and certainly most experts, say Australia could do a lot more.

The Morrison government refusing to budge at this stage, Michael. And there is anger against Scott Morrison on several fronts for his response to these bushfires generally. The tardiness, the slowness of his response. Some people saying he was -- he was almost disinterested.

And a longer-term issue, which is growing in Australia, that the Morrison government needs to be much more active on carbon emissions.

HOLMES: And Andrew, you know, I was reading. You're in Canberra, out in front of the parliament house there. And I was reading earlier that, you know, there are some people in Canberra who are being told to stay home because the smoke and air quality was so bad. What is the situation like? I mean, this is Canberra, the capital.

STEVENS: I know. If Scott Morrison ever wanted a reminder of just what bush fires do and how they affect the lives of normal Australians, yesterday in Canberra, this was thick smoke to the point where, as you say, many of the government offices were closed today, Monday, because of health reasons.

Now, it's not nearly as bad today. There's a strong smoke smell still in the air, but the quality of the air is actually fine now. But interestingly, if you go to the main zone of where the fires were their hottest and most devastating, towns called Mallacoota, which is on the coast of Victoria, there who are still people there who are waiting to be evacuated. They can't get out this day, because the smoke haze is such that the aircraft can't get in. Choppers can't get in to carry people out.

So what we have at the moment is really a brief respite. It's been raining today. It's been raining a lot across a lot of the bush fires zone. When we were driving to Canberra today, we drove through torrential rain. And that was very close to where two towns lost a lot of houses just 24 hours earlier.

So there is rain today, Michael, but I need to emphasize it's not enough. There are still more than 100 fires raging in New South Wales and Victoria. They are not considered danger -- a danger to life or property at this stage, but the rain is not sufficient to put these out. And by Thursday, Friday of this week, the hot conditions are expected to come back. The dry, hot winds are expected to come back. And we're expecting to see yet more flare up.

So this bush fire season, which has really only just begun, still has a long way to go, a lot more drama for the residents in the bush areas, for the thousands of volunteer firefighters who are now exhausted from fighting these since New Year's Day when they really flared. They still face a very long, difficult summer, Michael.

HOLMES: Yes. And -- and an estimated half a billion animals taken also by these fires.

Andrew Stevens there in Canberra. Appreciate it, thanks.

STEVENS: Good to see you there.

ALLEN: So let's check in with our meteorologist, Pedram Javaheri.

Pedram, hearing Andrew talk about a bit of rain, but you're probably going to reiterate the fact that it's just not enough with what they're up against?

PEDRAM JAVAHERI, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. It's the best weather we've seen since the 23rd of December. I was just looking into the numbers, guys, and the temperature is among the coolest we've seen in about two weeks' time. Certainly some of the heavier rain that we've seen in some time, as well, across the region. Not just to the south but even across the northern tier of the continent here. Getting quite a bit of rainfall.

But again, the scope of these fires, the significance of these fires, so large in nature that even some moderate rainfall not going to be enough.

So the front here comes in, brings in with it a marine influence as we approach, say Wednesday into Thursday. Beyond that, the winds once again pick up and the temperatures, once again, will want to rise.

And in Sydney, you kind of see this break here. But the average for this time of year is 26 degrees. And in fact, five of the next seven days remain below that threshold. You can't say that very often in the last several weeks. So certainly some better news when it comes to firefighting efforts across some of these regions with cooler air.

[00:55:02]

And notice, radar imagery. This is what Andrew was talking about, getting in some moderate to periods of heavy rain showers across this region.

But at the very most, when you put all of this together, about a tenth of a meter -- tenth of a millimeter or so, 15 millimeters in some areas, that is about the most that we expect within a five-day span across this particular region.

And of course, when you look at an average fire, historically speaking, that is about what is needed here to stop the spread of fires. But of course, these fires far from average.

And then when you look at what is needed to extinguish the flames, you need at least 50 millimeters. Certainly, nowhere near that slated across this region. So not enough.

Now, you look off towards the north and west, there is a tropical cyclone to tell you about. This is Blake, beginning to move ashore right now across portions of Broom. With it, tremendous rainfall in store. If we could just take that energy and shift it on in towards, of course, the south and southeast, that would be an entirely different story. But this is an area that will get upwards of 50 or 100 millimeters. But it across New South Wales and Victoria where nearly 200 fires put together and about 60 of which still considered out of control.

So yes, the weather pattern the next couple of days helps, but it's still far from what is needed here to put out the fires in their entirety, guys.

ALLEN: Months to go in their summer.

HOLMES: Months. Months and months and months. It's just a terrible situation.

ALLEN: Pedram, thank you.

JAVAHERI: Thank you.

ALLEN: And that is the news this hour, but please stay with us. I'm Natalie Allen.

HOLMES: Yes, I'm Michael Holmes. We'll be back after a quick break with more.

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