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House Votes to Limit President Trump's War Powers Against Iran; Nancy Pelosi: I'll Send Impeachment Articles to Senate Soon; E- mails from Boeing Employees Show They Questioned the Safety of 737 Max Jets; Mike Pompeo Offers Condolences and Help to Ukraine President. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 10, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: From the crash site of a Ukrainian plane that went down over Tehran shortly after takeoff. The remains of crash victims also being removed for DNA testing. This is according to Iran. But all of this happening before accredited investigators have even, Jim, had a chance to arrive on scene.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And that's a key concern. You have to keep the crash site, the evidence pristine.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Today Iran says it is starting to analyze the jet's flight data recorders. They say that process will take months. But publicly they're already denying that they shot down the passenger jet calling those allegations a big lie.

But CNN has obtained this video that appears to show a missile being fired into the sky and striking an object. This around the same time that the jet crashed killing all 176 people on board. Canada and Britain say their intelligence shows a surface-to-air missile took down the plane, as is our reporting.

HARLOW: Yes, the U.S. is backing that theory based on the evidence collected from satellite radar and electronic data. A U.S. official saying two Russian-made missiles were fired at the jet.

We are covering this from all angles. Let's begin with our senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen in Tehran and then we will get to Clarissa Ward in Kiev.

But, Fred, what do we know?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Poppy. We were talking about that crash site where the Iranians are now confirming that they have actually taken parts of the plane, large parts of the plane away from that crash site. We were able to speak to the head of Iran's civil aviation authority and he told us that those parts are being brought into a hangar where they say that international investigators are going to be able to look at them. What the Iranians say they want to do with their forensic workers is

piece together as much of the plane as they can from that debris to then maybe give them a better idea of what exactly happened to the plane.

Now you're absolutely right, the Iranians also telling us that the bodies have been removed from that crash site as well. Those have apparently been taken to a forensics unit for DNA testing. Of course, that's usually quite a long process and always such a painful process to the loved ones of those folks as well.

We've been getting some eyewitness reports from that crash site. And they say that it's now on lockdown. There's now security forces there. But they describe the scene yesterday there as anarchy as they say there were some regular people mingling around there with the forensic teams that were sifting through that site as well.

And the Iranians continue to deny that they shot that airliner down. The head of the civil aviation authority gave a press conference earlier today where he said that the theory, as he put it, that the plane had been shot down was invalid as he put it. He said if it would have been shot down, the debris field that was there would have been a lot larger than it was.

Interesting, though, in that press conference, they officially asked the U.S. government if it has any sort of information as they put it to give it to the Iranians, to give it to the investigation. Obviously the fact that the American intelligence services are saying that they believe that the plane was shot down by probably -- possibly the Iranian military.

And finally, guys, as far as those black boxes are concerned because obviously it's a very, very important question, the Iranians have showed video of them opening the black boxes. They say they and Ukrainian investigators are going to start trying to extract data from those black boxes. Today they say one of those black boxes is damaged. And they say if they don't have the capability to download all the data from those black boxes they are going to ask other countries for help, including possibly France, Canada and also Russia. But again, the Iranians continuing to deny they shot that airliner down, guys.

HARLOW: All families of 176 of those victims deserve answers as quickly as they can get them, Fred. Thank you very, very much.

Ukraine's president this morning says the missile theory is not ruled out as the cause of the crash but neither confirmed.

Let's go to our chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward in Kiev.

What is the latest that you're hearing?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So we are learning that President Zelensky just wrapped up a call with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. We saw Secretary of State Pompeo tweeting that he had expressed his condolences to the president, that he has said the U.S. would try to help facilitate the investigation in any way possible.

We also know that earlier today, the Ukrainian foreign minister sat down with the U.S. charge d'affaires from the embassy here and that some data was shared with the Ukrainians. Up until now, there's definitely been a sense of a little bit of frustration from Ukraine's authorities who say that they've been learning about the allegations that the plane was shot down by an Iranian missile from media statements. And they made a plea yesterday for more information from various countries with pertinent intelligence about their investigations leading them to come to this conclusion.

But as you mentioned, Poppy, they are being pretty tightlipped. They are saying essentially that they know it's a possibility that the plane was shot down.

[09:05:03]

But they are not saying at this stage whether they believe it categorically. They're waiting for more information. They have 45 Ukrainian investigators on the ground. Not clear what kind of access they are being given to the crash site given what you just heard from my colleague Fred Pleitgen in Tehran.

But one interesting note I thought from Zelensky's statement that he put out yesterday. He said, the value of human life is higher than any political motives. I think that gives you a sense of the sort of skepticism that you are seeing here from the Ukrainian leader that everybody has a sort of dog in this fight if you will and what the Ukrainians want right now are answers, clarity as they mourn this horrific tragedy.

SCIUTTO: Well, this, of course, grimly familiar to Ukraine, Clarissa, as you know, with MH-17, another passenger jet shot by a Russian missile in that case over Ukrainian territory that they have dealt with this kind of thing before.

Clarissa Ward in Kiev, thanks very much.

Joining me now to discuss, David Soucie, former safety inspector for the FAA.

So, David, you know this well. You know that planes don't just suddenly blow up in the sky for mechanical reasons here. And we also know, according to our own reporting, that U.S. intelligence, which can watch any missile launch around the world says this was a missile strike. Based on what you've seen, and granted that's limited, what strikes you?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST, FORMER FAA SAFETY INSPECTOR: I don't think there's any question in my mind at this point, even if it was a catastrophic engine failure. Initially I saw some evidence of that with the photos, but even with that, an engine failure doesn't typically, even if it's uncontained, bring the aircraft down to the ground. So I don't see any other explanation for at this point, Jim.

SCIUTTO: OK. So another question here is this. Planes were taking off and landing from that airport there in the midst of military action, right? And this question was raised during MH-17. Of course, flights in Europe were flying over an active war zone there. Do you think airlines in retrospect should have made their own decision not to fly? Should that airport have been closed in this time, and were there safety failures there?

SOUCIE: Well, we have a lot of discussions after this with ICAO, the United Nations branch of the aviation organization. And they said that they were going to put out a Web site where people would share this information with the flying public. To date, I'm not aware of how to access that, where to get it. But at the point, with this particular incident, why was it not? The U.S. had restricted all U.S. air carriers from flying over those areas but ultimately the responsibility and the acceptance of that risk lies with the air carrier itself. And so that decision was made by the Ukrainian airline.

SCIUTTO: So Iran now seems to be playing something of a double game here. On the one hand publicly calling it a lie that an Iranian missile took this down, despite the evidence, but on the other hand, notable that they have invited the NTSB in and they've invited Ukrainian and Swedish investigators. There were a lot of Swedish nationals on the flight. And Boeing as well. I mean, that would seem to indicate, you're going to have an international investigation here. Makes it much harder, virtually impossible for Iran to deny the evidence, if it's confirmed on the ground.

SOUCIE: Yes, it's irresponsible to make this accusation that it's a lie at this point. No one is saying that it isn't. No one is saying that it is. And so let's -- with an investigation, Jim, you've got to give it time. You've got to let, as we said, the most important thing first is given the respect and handling the bodies and the victims of this accident. The most due respect that we can and get those bodies out and taken care of, which they have done. It's difficult. This site is huge. It's enormous. And trying to control a site like that is very difficult, at best.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And you need the site to be pristine. I mean, this was an issue again with MH-17. You had Russian forces, journalists, locals walking across the site at the time. And then the question becomes, do you preserve evidence as to what brought it down?

Now we're hearing today that Iran has taken pieces of the wreckage away. How -- and you've seen pictures, I imagine, of the site with people walking all over the place there. How concerning is that in terms of keeping the investigation solid?

SOUCIE: Well, I don't think I've ever done an accident investigation or been on site when it wasn't anarchy. When it wasn't just as many people trying to help with good intentions. And the difficult thing again is when people are emotional and upset and heightened like they are on any accident site and the things that they see, each piece of evidence, each piece of debris that you see is emotional, it's difficult to address.

It takes a very special kind of person to remove themselves from that and to secure that site. So that's what they're going through right now.

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So I've made decisions before to take debris and pieces off the site as long as they're well-documented as to where they were, their position. In today's world you can almost do a 3D representation of it. If they're doing that. And I hope that they can and that they are, but at that point, it is safe to take it off and put it into a secure site for examination at a more detailed level.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I suppose the question is, are there folks with bad intentions who want to hide potential evidence, pieces of a missile, et cetera, something we'll have to stay on top of.

David Soucie, thanks so much.

SOUCIE: Thank you.

HARLOW: Still to come, how soon is soon? That's when House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says she will be sending over the articles of impeachment to the Senate. Is she prepared for a Senate trial without witnesses?

And huge protests this morning in Iraq as we're learning Iraqis -- Iraq's prime minister asked Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to come up with a plan for U.S. troop withdrawal.

SCIUTTO: Plus, 2020 hopeful Pete Buttigieg picks up his first endorsement from an African-American member of Congress. I will speak or Poppy, rather, will speak to that congressman just ahead. Why he thinks Mayor Pete is the person to defeat President Trump.

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[09:15:00]

SCIUTTO: A war powers resolution seeking to limit President Trump's ability to wage war against Iran is now in the hands of the Senate. Impeachment articles, however, are not. The house passed a resolution with bipartisan support, Thursday, limiting the president's military options against Iran.

HARLOW: Now, we wait to see if house Speaker Nancy Pelosi will finally send over the articles of impeachment to the Senate. She promised yesterday, it would be soon. But it's been really tight- lipped about her plans as some pressure is growing internally, especially among Democrats in the Senate.

With us now, senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny and CNN legal analyst Ross Garber who teaches impeachment law at Tulane, also with defense counsel for four governors in impeachment proceedings, knows a thing or two about this. Jeff, so, let me begin with you because we were counting on the calendar, it's been 24 days since the house passed those articles of impeachment against the president. Pelosi says soon. Well, how soon is soon? Is that like at 10:00 a.m.?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, good morning. I don't think at 10:00 a.m., but soon means soon, and only Speaker Pelosi knows exactly what that means. Look, we have talked to so many people around her, so many of the chairmen who work under her. They all say one thing, we don't know she knows.

But there's no question that we are on the cusp of this happening. But we should point out, this is not going to be an immediate process. The immediate moment -- as she says she's sending the impeachment articles over. Something still has to happen in the house. The house still has to vote on the managers here. So, we're several days away at least, at the very least, from a trial beginning in the Senate.

But we are certainly on the verge of this happening. She is hearing pressure from many Democrats, and she's also at the end of the line in terms of what she's likely to get from Mitch McConnell. So, you know, when you say 24 days, it has been quite a while, Christmas has been in there, new year has been in there. So, she's gotten some.

She's pressured the Senate Majority leader some, but there's no question he is not going to budge on this. So, this will happen likely by the weekend, certainly by the beginning of next week. So, by this time next week, it would be very hard to imagine the trial not already being under way.

SCIUTTO: All right, Ross, given that timeline, and we know Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell, he has -- he's backing a resolution to dismiss the articles immediately. If those articles are sent over today, perhaps the beginning of next week, is that still a serious effort to dismiss the articles?

ROSS GARBER, TEACHES IMPEACHMENT LAW AT TULANE LAW SCHOOL: Yes -- no. And as you're referring to this resolution initially proposed by Senator --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

GARBER: Holley from Missouri, that essentially would put a deadline on how long the house has to transmit the articles. And if they didn't transmit the articles in that deadline, then the Senate could vote on whether to just dismiss them, deem them submitted and then vote on whether to dismiss them. I think that is very unlikely to realistically be in play, in part because of what Jeff said.

You know, the notion that the speaker is going to hold these articles for very long is very unlikely.

HARLOW: Ross, not for nothing. I think you floated this idea the day after the house passed the articles on this show. Maybe they were watching.

GARBER: I think -- yes, on this show because the question was, well, you know, is there anything that the Senate could do to force the issue, given that there are impeachment rules in place, and that under the Senate's rules, nothing happens until the house transmits the articles --

HARLOW: Right -- GARBER: Transmits the articles, yes, I suggested that, the one thing

the Senate could do is set a deadline. And I --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

GARBER: Think it would be constitutional for them to do that.

SCIUTTO: See, that's why you've got to watch this show because, you know, people predict the future correctly --

GARBER: Lots of reasons --

SCIUTTO: We've seen that, there's evidence.

GARBER: Lots of reasons --

HARLOW: Oh, you know --

SCIUTTO: Jeff Zeleny, tell me where the question of witnesses stands based on your reading, private conversations with aides on the Hill, but also public statements from a small handful of Republicans that saying that they're open to that. In fact, we had Jim Rich(ph), you know, a very loyal Trump supporter on this program yesterday say that he was not ruling out the possibility of voting for witnesses.

ZELENY: Most of the Republican senators I've spoken to this week aren't ruling it out, but they're also not saying, yes, there absolutely should be witnesses. I will not, you know, go forward without having John Bolton subpoenaed. So, look, I think there's no question that Senator McConnell has been very successful as he always is in, you know, controlling and corralling his senators.

The -- you know, the question of there being witnesses is still one that is lingering, and he has said that, you know, in the further stages of the trial, it is still possible that there would be witnesses. So if it were to happen, it is almost impossible for me to fathom that it'd be anything beyond a deposition on a videotape or something as was the case in the Clinton impeachment --

[09:20:00]

SCIUTTO: Yes --

ZELENY: Trial. We are not going to see John Bolton at the, you know, center of the Senate chamber raising his hand and talking here under oath. I mean, it's not that kind of made-for-television moment. So we'll see if he ends up testifying or others do at all. But it is unlikely that Senator McConnell is going to give any more on witnesses.

SCIUTTO: Yes --

ZELENY: Democrats are not going to get what they want on this case.

SCIUTTO: But that -- you know, Poppy, that's still if Bolton were to provide even written testimony -- HARLOW: Yes --

SCIUTTO: Stating that, yes --

ZELENY: Sure --

SCIUTTO: The president ordered this, right?

HARLOW: Yes --

SCIUTTO: I mean, that would be no small thing.

HARLOW: But Jim, I mean, as you point out -- and I just want to remind people again, Bolton could do that like yesterday. I mean --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HARLOW: He could tell the American people --

SCIUTTO: Sure --

HARLOW: What he knows without a subpoena, without having to testify, et cetera. Ross, let's move on to the war powers resolution that passed in the house, and you know, Nancy Pelosi was asked in that presser yesterday, essentially why are you doing this? It doesn't really have any teeth. And she said, oh, yes, it does have teeth.

But what that reporter was getting to, is that this is a concurrent bill, which means it doesn't go to the president's desk. It isn't legally binding. So, what is there, there, what's the point of it?

GARBER: Yes, the Supreme Court has said these concurrent resolutions, you know, unless they're passed as a joint resolution and go to the president, the president can veto them, they don't have the power of law. But nevertheless, it is a strong statement by at least some in Congress that they want to see the president handle his war powers differently.

And so, yes, it is true. It won't, as a -- as a technical, legal matter tie the president's hands. But, you know, Congress has a bully pulpit, too. It's something that we're talking about --

HARLOW: Yes --

GARBER: On your show. It's something that the Speaker will talk about. And as a practical matter, that can actually have an influence on the president and his team.

HARLOW: OK, Ross Garber, thank you. Jeff Zeleny, thanks for coming on, Jeff, we never get you. You're always like prime time, so thanks for waking up early for us --

ZELENY: Any time, Poppy, any time.

HARLOW: We appreciate it. So for Boeing, that company in another difficult position as it releases a flood of employee e-mails criticizing the design and the safety of that 737 Max jet. Wait until you see what these e-mails actually said.

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[09:25:00]

HARLOW: Well, new really disturbing e-mails show Boeing employees mocking the FAA certification process and expressing doubts about the now-grounded 737 Max jets' ability to fly safely.

SCIUTTO: Yes, these are just disturbing messages. In one, an employee described the plane as quote, "designed by clowns who are in turn supervised by monkeys." They're talking about their own company there. Last March, the jets you remember were grounded worldwide after not one, but two crashes that claimed a total of 346 lives. CNN's Cristina Alesci joins us.

Now, Cristina, I mean, these are truly alarming e-mails. And what's interesting, not only do they talk about playing the FAA, but they also take shots at the very design of this plane.

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN BUSINESS & POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jim. These messages tell us that some employees were troubled about what they were asked to tell regulators before the crashes. One employee in May, 2018 wrote, "I really would struggle to defend the simulator in front of the FAA next week. Yes, I still haven't been forgiven by God for the covering up I did last year", replied a colleague, apparently, referring to some other event that involved the agency.

In another message, an employee asked, "would you put your family on a Max simulator-trained aircraft? I wouldn't." Another employee responding, "no". These messages are certainly another stain on Boeing's reputation. And they called the company's culture into question. But it's important to note that the Boeing chief regulator, the FAA, had already seen the documents before they were released publicly, and the FAA said, it didn't find anything in the documents that indicated new safety risks, ones that weren't already identified.

The 737 Max, however, is still grounded. The company is working with regulators to get it back in the air, which is mission critical at this point, Jim.

SCIUTTO: I mean, goodness, do they have Boeing employees say they wouldn't put their own families on that plane. I just don't see how you -- how you recover from that. I mean, how does Boeing recover? The enormous financial resources invested in this plane, and is it possible the 737 Max does not come back into service?

ALESCI: Well, that is possible. But the company has already said that it's expected to get certification this year. Look, it's going to take some time, and a lot of work for the company to get back on track. They knew these messages would look really bad. The company issued a statement alongside them, saying "these communications do not reflect the company, we are and need to be.

They are completely unacceptable, and we regret the content of these communications, apologize to the Federal Aviation Administration, Congress and our airline customers and to the flying public for them." Still, Boeing will have to do a lot more than just say the right things. It will have to show the public, Congress and regulators that it is putting safety first. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Absolutely. They've dug an enormous hole here. Cristina Alesci, thanks for covering this story.

ALESCI: Of course.

HARLOW: All right, this morning, the December jobs report shows the U.S. economy added 145,000 jobs, unemployment rate holding steady at 3.5 percent, our chief business correspondent Christine Romans is here. It's solid number --

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes --

HARLOW: But some questions on manufacturing.

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