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DOJ's Probe of Clinton Fizzles Due to Lack of Evidence; Is Race A Factor in Harry And Meghan's Surprise Decision; Russian Warship Aggressively Approached U.S. Destroyer; Sanders Crosses Paths with Actor Who Plays Him on SNL. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired January 10, 2020 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER AND EDITOR AT LARGE: -- because he's currently the President. But he complained that 3 to 5 million people voted illegally. Five days after election he -- president was sworn in, he formed an election fraud commission. I will be asking for a major investigation into voter fraud, including those registered to vote in 2 states, those who were legal. And he goes -- it goes on, this is January 25th, 2017.

That commission, which by the way, was led by Kris Kobach who is running for Senate in Kansas now, that commission disbanded largely by because there's never been any evidence of widespread purposeful voter fraud in any election in American history.

Mitch McConnell, Senate Majority Leader, not exactly a liberal was asked about this. Let's play what McConnell said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): There's no evidence that it occurred in such a significant number that would have changed the Presidential election, and I don't think we ought to spend any federal money investigating that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CILLIZZA: Yes, Mitch McConnell was right. Remember when it comes to voter fraud -- I just want to make this one last point, Brooke. There are times when people vote twice, and they are allowed to. These are -- in every study that has been done of every election we have had, these are isolated incidents. They are not evidence of some widespread plot.

Donald Trump, remember, said 3 to 5 million people voted illegally. He's never provided evidence. This is all in keeping whether it's spying, voter fraud, whatever he's saying in regards -- it's a conspiracy theory, and in many cases like these three, it's been debunked.

BALDWIN: Yes, no, I'm glad we went through it. It is crazy to think back, it wasn't just when he was a candidate, but when he was President as well. Chris, thank you, you're fired up about this. David Laufman is joining me now. He's a former Justice Department official who helped oversee both the investigation of Hillary Clinton's e-mail server and Russian interference in the 2016 election. So David, what do the DOJ findings say to you?

DAVID LAUFMAN, EX-JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL WHO HELPED OVERSEE CLINTON, RUSSIA PROBES: Well, I think we can all be glad that Mr. Huber apparently didn't manufacture a case out of nothing just to placate the Attorney General or the White House. But the fact that this investigation or investigations was undertaken in the first instance is among the lowest points in the modern history of the Department of Justice.

And that's saying a lot for this administration because it was commissioned essentially as a cram down by the White House to pressure the Department of Justice to redo investigations of matters that, according to the public record, had already been determined to lack prosecutorial merit purely to satiate the President's personal political grievances and conspiracy theories.

BALDWIN: You also, just listening to you -- you say this sets a dangerous precedent when you just think about DOJ moving forward. What's the remedy?

LAUFMAN: The remedy is for public officials, whether they're political appointees or career appointees, to do the right thing. When someone is asking them to do the wrong thing, and they're options are to refuse to undertake what is palpably a politically inspired investigation, contrary to department practice, or to resign.

And that's what we want men and women of integrity in positions like Mr. Huber to do when there is political pressure to get them to skew things for political advantage.

BALDWIN: Meanwhile, David, as you know, several members of the President's inner circle of his campaign and administration have been indicted, some of them convicted, sent to prison by the DOJ. And while the President has blasted the Clinton Foundation, his own foundation was ordered by a judge to pay $2 million after being accused of unlawfully coordinating with the 2016 Trump Presidential campaign.

How does President Trump reconcile those contradictions?

LAUFMAN: Well, I'm not going to try to occupy the space in the President's brain. I'm sure it's possible, though, that he feels like this department isn't fully serving him interests when the U.S. Attorney's Office, which should be doing exactly what the Southern District Of New York is doing, following the facts, applying law to facts, is bringing cases that rub up against his personal interests.

BALDWIN: David Laufman, thank you, sir.

LAUFMAN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Right now, Meghan Markle is back in Canada as the Royal family holds emergency meetings on her plan with Prince Harry to step back from their Royal duties. We'll talk about whether race, her skin color had anything to do with the surprise move.

[15:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Now that some of the shock over Harry and Meghan's big announcement has eased just a little bit, the rampant speculation about why they want to leave their senior roles has not, and the issue of race keeps coming up.

The CNN digital headline by senior entertainment writer Lisa France reads, coming or going, Meghan Markle gets the blame, and it's because of her race.

And Lisa writes, quote, as a black woman, it's been infuriating to watch how Meghan has been treated, not just because racism hurts, but also because there was the sense that we weren't allowed to even enjoy the fairy tale.

The Prince in this story didn't slay dragons. He instead had to take on British tabloids in a society where class supposedly trumps race even as racism clearly remains an issue.

24 hours after making their announcement, Meghan returned to Canada where her son Archie currently is and Harry is in London meeting with his father and brother about this unprecedented request.

Lisa France is here and also joining us is Melanie Bromley, a British native and chief correspondent for E! News.

[15:40:00]

And so ladies, let's talk about all the things, Lisa just starting with you, in your piece, why do you think this has to do with the color of her skin?

LISA FRANCE, CNN SENIOR ENTERTAINMENT WRITER: Because we live in a world where people are judged, even though she identifies as being biracial, she is still being viewed as a black woman and being treated as a black woman. I read the British tabloids often, and I go and you see thousands of comments and some of them extremely vile. I mean, Prince Harry, he has complained about how his wife has been treated, and he has specifically said part of it is because of racism.

BALDWIN: What about --

MELANIE BROMLEY, CHIEF NEWS CORRESPONDENT FOR E! NEWS: And he's absolutely right.

BALDWIN: No, go ahead, Melanie, go ahead. Jump in.

BROMLEY: Well, he's absolutely right, you know, I think that the British press didn't give Meghan a chance right from the start, and that can definitely be argued that that's because of the color of her skin. You know, this is a family and an establishment that's been around for centuries, and the British media are really a part of, like, trying to keep the status quo and any outsider that comes in is going to be criticized.

Kate Middleton was criticized but not to the extent that Meghan Markle has been criticized. There's nothing no matter how much good work that she has done that she has not had to deal with negative headlines about. And I don't blame Harry and Meghan for wanting to give up because of that.

BALDWIN: I mean, speaking of being an outsider and Lisa, this is back over to you, and yes, you know, maybe it is race that is playing a role. Others are arguing though it's simply who she is as a person. Here she was, she came to Britain with her American sensibilities, as a commoner, as a divorcee, as an actress and she tried to modernize the monarchy in way that just backfired. And now Britain could be losing its favorite Royal grandson. Just what about that argument?

FRANCE: Why is she receiving the blame where Harry has been outspoken about the fact that he doesn't want to be a traditional Royal? I mean, just by virtue of the fact that he married a woman of color, he was letting them know I'm not going to be the usual Prince. So why is it, you know, we can't have it both ways.

When she first came aboard, people were like, oh, she's just an actress who wants to be married to a Prince because she wants power. And now she has so much power that she's according to these folks caused a schism. So which is it? Is she all powerful or has no power?

BALDWIN: Do we know, Melanie, even as I'm listening to Lisa so closely, just answer to the why, like why do they want to step back, you know, from the family

We talk about her. We also talk about him and what happened to his mother and maybe feelings he's always held on toward the Royal family. And then there was this video over Christmas where they were left out. Did it have anything to do with something as simple as that?

BROMLEY: You know, we've always seen sparrow over the years really struggle to find their place, and that's been exactly the same with Harry, and Harry's actually done a very good job up until now. He launched the Invictus games. He's done a ton of good philanthropy work, but now he is not the sparrow, right, he's second in line to the throne, and he has never been very comfortable with his position. He's never enjoyed it. He's always had disdain for the British media because of what happened to his mother. And this has just been a job that he was born into and had absolutely no say in whether he should or shouldn't continue in it.

You know, for him now he's met somebody who he truly loves. He has a son, and he's looking at the future of his family and actually it's only Harry and William that can understand what it's like to grow up Royal, and he doesn't want that for Archie.

So, you know, there are a million different factors in this, but it's not just about that picture at Christmas. That actually shows you his lack of importance now in the Royal family, and it's up to him to start a new life and find his purpose somewhere else. BALDWIN: As I'm talking to the two of you, I'm thinking back to their

wedding, Harry and Meghan's wedding, I mean, how many people woke up at 4 in the morning. Actually I was on my own honeymoon --

BROMLEY: I was there.

BALDWIN: You were there. Like people, everyone and their mother woke up here in America to watch this play out. And when you think back to it, you know, Lisa, her biracial heritage, I thought it was initially applauded, right, when they announced their engagement. A step towards racial harmony, that she would be someone who represented progress. Why would that not still be the case. What happened?

FRANCE: Exactly for the same reason why it wasn't the case with President Obama. You know, a lot of times -- and I spoke to this great professor from the U.K. who said that it's the same thing. It looks like progress, but it actually is not. What it results in is an uncovering of people's biases.

And the fascinating thing for me is because Meghan, initially people didn't even realize that she was a woman of color for many years. She did a video back in 2012 where she talked about feeling like a fly on the wall because people had no idea that her mother was African American to the point where she heard her mother be called the N word.

And so she's not someone who's made race a big deal, but she's never shied from it. She says she accepts both parts of her heritage. But now people have made a big deal about her race because we see her being very close to her African American mother. Who did they spend Christmas with? Their African American mom.

[15:45:00]

And so people are tying her to her African American heritage in a way that she hasn't been outspoken about. Again, she hasn't shied away from it. So it looks like this is going to be a great thing. Here is literally someone bringing this African-American heritage into the Royal family, but as you can see, it doesn't look like it's been accepted, and so, you know, people are applauding to them to want to go forth and carve out their own life for themselves.

BALDWIN: We'll leave it with you, Lisa France. Lisa and Melanie, ladies, thank you so much.

FRANCE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Just in after Iraq approaches the U.S. officially about withdrawing American troops, the President just said he's OK with pulling troops. Arwa Damon is on the ground in Baghdad.

Plus, first on CNN, stunning video of another dangerous encounter with the Russians as one of their ships approaches a U.S. destroyer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Amid all the shifting narratives on the tensions in Iran, it's important to remember that Iraq is quite literally stuck in the middle of this crisis. The Iraqi Prime Minister is asking U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to start making plans for an American troop withdrawal.

[15:50:00]

And while Secretary Pompeo said the discussions are ongoing, President Trump offered a more definitive answer on Fox.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Iraqi Prime Minister has notified Mike Pompeo about potential plans, drawing up plans for a U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq, period. You ran on pulling out of the Middle East. Why not use this opportunity to say we're done?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm OK with it. By the way.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're OK with removing our troops from Iraq.

TRUMP: -- that's what they say publicly, they don't say that privately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: As for the citizens of Iraq, they are staging massive protests today and our CNN senior international correspondent Arwa Damon was in the crowd in Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The chants are about ending the current government. They are about ending Iran's influence. They are about ending America. At the core of these demonstrations is a desire for one Iraq, a unified Iraq and one that is truly democratic.

These are not the same protesters who tried to storm the U.S. embassy. These protesters have been out here with these demands for months. Their situation made even more precarious given everything else that has unfolded made their call for the end to outside interference even stronger. One of the many hashtags behind these types of protests is, we are not are Parliament. They say -- most of them at least -- that they want the Iranian's and their influence out. They want negative American influence out. Many we have spoken to say, they understand why the U.S. did what it did, but do not agree with it happening on Iraqi soil.

What the population here truly wants is truly craving is just to be allowed to live.

Arwa Damon, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BALDWIN: Also first on CNN, new video shows a Russian warship aggressively approaching a U.S. Navy destroyer in the Middle East, ignoring warnings from the U.S. Navy and increasing the risk of a collision in the North Arabian Sea. The Russian vessel came as close as 180 feet to the U.S. ship before ultimately turning away. The incident is just the latest example of a close encounter between the U.S. and Russian military forces that American officials have described as unsafe and provocative.

News of the 2020 Presidential race today. We'll tell you which Democrat just dropped out. Plus, Senator Bernie Sanders has some fun with his alter ego, see what happened when he ran Larry David at the "Today Show."

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[15:55:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Obviously, you are the most Googled.

MARIANNE WILLIAMSON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, from Montana. What's in Montana.

BALDWIN: Everybody is like who's Steve Bullock?

WILLIAMSON: What about Montana? Leave me alone.

BALDWIN: You said whoever leaves needs to not only water the leaves, but water the roots of our democracy. After last night do you think the Democrats are in a better position or a worst position to beat Donald Trump?

WILLIAMSON: Well, I hope that my voice has contributed something to the conversation already and I believe that it has.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was part of my conversation with Marianne Williamson back in July when were in Detroit for the big CNN debate where she left quite an impression. But today, she announced she is ending her Presidential bid.

And this news comes on the same day that one of frontrunners in the race, Senator Bernie Sanders came face-to-face with the man who plays him live on "Saturday Night Live." Sanders and Larry David both happened to be guests on the "Today Show" and let's just say it was pretty, pretty good.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you become President, you have got to be flying back and forth --

LARRY DAVID, NBC THE TODAY SHOW: Yes. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- To play him on SNL.

DAVID: Yes, it is true. It is not going to be easy for me. It will be great for the country and terrible for me.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And then do a good job for four years, and you are complaining.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And then later Larry David talked about the striking similarities between the two.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, CO-HOST, TODAY SHOW: I didn't realize was, I didn't know you all were really, like, related, for real.

DAVID: Yes.

GUTHRIE: What's the connect?

DAVID: Well, we are second or third cousins. Yes.

GUTHRIE: Really?

DAVID: Yes.

GUTHRIE: You feel that?

DAVID: We go back to the old country, yes. I do feel a familial connection with him.

GUTHRIE: Yes.

DAVID: I do.

GUTHRIE: I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but now sitting here and then I just interviewed him, I don't think that you are acting when you do Bernie Sanders.

DAVID: Yes, there's not much to it. There's not much to it.

GUTHRIE: It's kind of like you.

DAVID: Yes, yes, it is little -- turn the volume up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you turn the volume up on that at all?

DAVID: So there's not much to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I love how Savannah is like, it is kind of like you. The real Senator Sanders is going to be one of six candidates on stage next Tuesday for the last Democratic Presidential debate before the Iowa caucuses. Do not miss it, January 14th at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.

I'm Brooke Baldwin, thanks for being --

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