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Arrests Made in Downed Ukraine Plane; Iran Threatened with Sanctions; Unaware of Embassy Threats; Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH) is Interviewed about Impeachment; Impeachment Managers to be Named Tomorrow; Australian Town Fights Fires. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired January 14, 2020 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:31:25]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Iran now says it has arrested several people earlier today for their role in the downing of a Ukrainian passenger jet killing all 176 people on board. The deadly crash sparked massive anti-government protests in Iran. Remember, more than half of those on board were Iranian nationals. And now Iran's president is saying the government will punish everyone, it claims, it says, are responsible for it.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Let's go straight to our Nic Robertson. He is in Abu Dhabi.

I mean, Nic, the question becomes, why should outside governments like Canada, that lost more than 60 of their nationals, or Ukraine, for that matter, trust Iran's investigation?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: And we don't even know where Iran's investigation is going.

HARLOW: Yes.

ROBERTSON: Look, its success, obviously, is going to be on its transparency. Iran does want this international support. But we don't know are they talking about arresting the guys that pushed the button, that fired the missile? Are they talking about the commander that called to his higher (ph) command and said, you know, is this a U.S. incoming missile or not? Or does it really go to the root of the issue for many Iranians at the moment, which is, you know, who was responsible for not grounding all the civilian aircraft that night? Will it go to that level? And we don't have that.

Rouhani does say that the world is watching, but that doesn't mean they're going to be transparent in what they do.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and, listen, there are other questions, too. Why didn't European Air authority recommend no flights over Iran as well --

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Which they've now done, you know, but late.

I want to ask another question because things are moving forward with Iran's compliance with the 2015 nuclear deal. Britain, France and Germany, they are getting closer to reinstating their own sanctions on Iran over its nuclear program as Iran breaks various levels of that agreement.

Are they ready to take action? Because, as you know, Nic, Europe wanted to stay in this nuclear deal. Trump withdrew. They were trying to rescue it. But now Iran forcing their hand.

ROBERTSON: Yes, we kind of got a hot clue on that this morning. The British prime minister, in an interview, said that actually he was prepared to back a new plan if President Trump has a plan, but he wants to see that plan.

I think what -- you -- the implication of what the Europeans are doing here is trying to take a diplomatic lead on the situation in Iran. They're trying to use, if you will, President Trump's tactics. President Trump essentially calling out the Iranians over their increase in violence by killing Soleimani. The Europeans using diplomacy here, calling out Iran over its continued escalating, although telegraphing non-compliance of the nuclear deal, increasing the centrifuges, increasing the stockpiles of enriched uranium, increasing the level to which that uranium is enriched.

They're calling -- they're calling them out and saying, look we have to go to this dispute resolution mechanism which ultimately, in the space of a few weeks, potentially ends up at the U.N. Security Counsel. So you then get a bigger forum to press Iran to make some concessions. Is that the diplomatic path we're on? But it does seem that the Europeans are trying to take the diplomatic lead here.

HARLOW: Nic Robertson, thank you for your reporting on both of those fronts.

So the president, meantime, is defending the administration's messaging on the threats leading up to the taking out of Iran's General Qasem Soleimani.

SCIUTTO: But now the State Department is granting something very important, that it was totally unaware that any U.S. embassies were in imminent danger. That's important.

Let's bring in national security reporter Kylie Atwood, because, Kylie, as you know, if there was an imminent threat, wouldn't a warning have gone out to those embassies -- the president has claimed four -- so that they could stake steps to protect their diplomatic staff?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes. So our reporting, Jim, is that there was a warning that went out, but State Department officials who were involved, as you say, in U.S. embassy security, the people who should know about an imminent threat, they were not made aware of an imminent threat against four specific U.S. embassies.

[09:35:10]

And, as a result, there was a worldwide security warning that went out to all U.S. embassies. It was warning of potential escalation with Iran and then there was a follow-up phone call to GCC countries, to the regional security officers in those regions to essentially say, you need to pay attention to this security warning. If you need additional resources, tell us.

But the fact that these security officials at the State Department didn't know of an imminent threat to four U.S. embassies is really, really important here because that is the exact justification that President Trump has given for the U.S. strike that killed Qasem Soleimani.

Now, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo hasn't specifically backed up the president's statement there. But he did appear to come out against our reporting with a little bit of some critical comments yesterday.

Let's listen to what he said.

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MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: That is both false and dangerous and intentionally undermining what it is this administration did to protect the amazing men and women who work at our embassies.

President Trump would never have put our diplomats in a position where they were at substantial risk and we would have never undertaken action like this without not only notifying them, but making sure they had the time and the resources that they need.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ATWOOD: Now, just to clarify, however, our reporting does not say that the State Department wasn't in touch with U.S. embassies worldwide. What we do say is that security officials at the State Department didn't know that they should have specific operations with regard to four U.S. embassies facing an imminent attack.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And not unusual for the secretary of state to take aim at the media and not necessarily answer the key question here is, how imminent was the danger, how far was it communicated?

Kylie Atwood, thanks very much.

Another key Republican senator says that he wants to hear from witnesses during a Senate trial of the president. That number is growing of Republicans. Could we see those witnesses? Could get interesting. We're going to be on it, next.

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[09:41:28]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. Right now House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is meeting with House Democrats

as she prepares to send impeachment articles to the Senate for a trial of President Trump.

Here to speak about it, as well as the crisis in Iran, Senator Jeanne Shaheen. She's a Democrat from New Hampshire, also sits on the Foreign Relations and Armed Services Committees.

Senator, thanks for taking the time this morning.

SEN. JEANNE SHAHEEN (D-NH): Good morning.

SCIUTTO: First, let me begin with the question of witnesses. It appears more Republicans now are open to witnesses, crucially four of them, Romney, Alexander, Collins, Murkowski. That would, if they follow through, get you to enough votes to call witnesses.

I wonder, you know, the conventional wisdom has been that the president's acquittal is a foregone conclusion. But if you were to hear from a John Bolton and if he were to repeat the story that others have said, how he viewed the withholding of Ukraine aid, is that necessarily a foregone conclusion, or is the result of this trial an open question?

SHAHEEN: Well, I'm not going to speculate on the trial. But what I think people in America want to hear, and the reason I'm glad that we've heard from four Republicans who say they want to hear from witnesses is, people want a fair trial. They want a fair process. And they want to hear from those people who might be able to firsthand shed some light on what actually was said.

And, you know, I don't understand if the -- if the White House and the president, if this was such a perfect phone call and the president says he has nothing to hide, then let's hear from those people who were in the room. Let's see those documents that we haven't -- that haven't been shared because the White House has been unwilling to do that.

SCIUTTO: Mitch McConnell has warned of mutually assured destruction if witnesses are called. The meaning of that being, OK, fine, Democrats, you might get your John Bolton, but keep in mind Hunter Biden might be on that list as well. How would you react to that? Would you be willing to hear from Biden in effect as the cost of hearing from Bolton and others?

SHAHEEN: Well, what we need to do is hear from those people who were in the room who have a firsthand knowledge of what occurred. That's what the American people want. We need a fair process, as I've said

And, you know, Hunter Biden wasn't in the room. It's a totally unrelated issue. It's a red herring that the Republicans have thrown out to try and confuse the situation.

And, you know, one of the things that we have to take as senators who are sitting on this process is a second oath in addition to our oath of office and our responsibility to the Constitution. And that's an oath that says we're going to try and get to the truth, to have a fair process. And it's hard to -- for my constituents to see how that happens when we've already got some members of the Senate, including Mitch McConnell, who are saying that they're going to do whatever the White House wants.

SCIUTTO: Fair point.

Senator, stand by for a moment. We do have some breaking news relating to the trial. This coming from our colleague Manu Raju on The Hill.

He says that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has suggested that a resolution to name impeachment managers will be on the floor tomorrow.

Manu Raju, you're on The Hill. Tell us what the news is here.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, she just told her colleagues exactly that behind closed doors, that the House will move tomorrow, have a vote to transmit the articles of impeachment over to the Senate. First what they'll do is name -- vote to name those managers as part of a resolution. Those managers will then go and transmit the articles of impeachment over to the Senate and that will begin the Senate trial.

[09:45:01]

This has been the big question for some time, exactly when those articles would be delivered over to the Senate to begin the Senate trial. She made it very clear to her colleagues, the expectation is that that would occur tomorrow. Now, we don't know yet who the managers will be who will actually prosecute the case on behalf of Democrats, but she has not -- she indicated to her colleagues that she would not make that announcement here behind closed doors. We'll see if we learn more names, any of those names later today.

But, at the moment, Jim, the news here, Nancy Pelosi makes clear that tomorrow is going to be the day that the House will finish its process essentially, vote to name its impeachment managers, and then vote to transmit those articles of impeachment over to the Senate, and that will begin the Senate trial about whether the president should be removed from office.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: That is news.

Manu Raju on The Hill.

Senator Jeanne Shaheen back -- back with us.

And thank you for waiting a moment.

SHAHEEN: Sure.

SCIUTTO: You're going to be sitting as a juror in a trial of this president. I want to ask you, we're up for re-election in 2020. And one consistent result from polls, CNN and others, is how low on the list of topics for voters impeachment is. Well behind health care, for instance, and other issues.

Trump lost New Hampshire by less than 1 percent in 2016. I just wonder, are you worried that impeachment has strengthened the president, might strengthen your Republican opponent this November?

SHAHEEN: Well, we have, as I said, a responsibility as senators and members of Congress, probably the most serious responsibility next to the ability to declare war, that we have as elected members. And so it's important for us to do everything we can to ensure that this process goes forward in a fair way and to complete it in a way so that I want to be able to go back and tell my constituents that I have done everything possible to ensure that as much information came out as we could get and that I tried to do what I thought was the right thing to do based on the evidence.

And then the voters will have to decide. There are a lot of other issues that I hear about when I go home, including health care and national security. So there are a lot of things voters are worried about.

SCIUTTO: I get it.

OK, before I let you go, two questions in light of your position on the Foreign Relations Committee.

First on Iran. A lot of uproar, questions about how honest the president and the administration was about intelligence before the Soleimani strike. You've been unique as a Democrat. You said yesterday you were not as upset about it as some of your colleagues.

Given the briefings you had, were you satisfied that the U.S. had specific intelligence about the threat from Soleimani prior?

SHAHEEN: I thought a case was made that there was a threat to the United States. And my top concern is the safety and security of our diplomatic personnel and our men and women serving in the military, including 80 members of the New Hampshire National Guard who were serving across the Middle East.

But that's the wrong question. The question should be, was the killing of Soleimani the best option with the least risk to ensure safety for the United States? And the follow-up question is, what we should be discussing now is what is our strategy? What is our plan in the Middle East? We don't have a coherent policy to address the Middle East and address Iran. And that's what we ought to be talking about.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

Final question, "Washington Post" reports this morning President Trump is planning to divert further money from the Pentagon, $7.2 billion to be exact, in Pentagon funding to build a border wall. Of course acknowledging once again he never got congressional approval for this money.

Your reaction to that? SHAHEEN: Well, I think that's just wrong. You know, the fact is, when

we passed the appropriations bills, we included money for border security and money for the wall that he could use and he continues to steal from our military, from those projects that Congress has authorized, that our men and women in the military need.

So I think it's wrong. I hope that Republicans will again join us in trying to prevent the president from taking those dollars.

SCIUTTO: Senator Jeanne Shaheen, thanks so much, this morning. We enjoyed the conversation.

SHAHEEN: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: And we'll be right back.

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[09:53:35]

HARLOW: So, in Australia, there are still 100 fires burning. Officials there say it could take years and billions of dollars to recover.

SCIUTTO: Yes, the scale of this, I think is really hard to fathom. This morning, here's a sign. It was so bad that a tennis player collapsed with a -- in a coughing fit during the qualifying rounds of the Australian Open in Melbourne, many hundreds of miles away. She couldn't finish the match, had to leave the court.

CNN's Will Ripley is in Australia with more.

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WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In Wingello, Australia, nobody imagined the fire could move so quickly. The front line was miles away from David Brogaman's (ph) home and store last week.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then we saw the sky go red and I go, that's not normal. Then we heard the sound of the fire. Like a furnace. Like a freight train right next to you.

RIPLEY: That familiar sound followed by a terrifying, almost apocalyptic scene.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another house gone.

RIPLEY: The Morton fire so intense it created its own weather, raining down fiery embers on this village of about 500.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there's houses exploding, fire everywhere. And I think, my house is gone for sure.

RIPLEY (on camera): That picture you took you thought would be the last you'd ever see of this place?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure. I thought, that's it, gone. RIPLEY (voice over): A feeling shared by Wingello Fire Captain Mark

Wilson.

CAPTAIN MARK WILSON, WINGELLO RURAL FIRE SERVICE: It's different when it's your own town. Like I've been everywhere else, helped out everywhere else, but the emotions and everything kick in, going, this is my house, my friends, my loved ones.

[09:55:09]

RIPLEY: Wilson's team of volunteer firefighters battled throughout the night.

WILSON: It's a feeling like, you're losing. You don't realize how much you have saved until the next day. We saved well over 80 houses that night.

RIPLEY (on camera): Even the most seasoned firefighters say it doesn't make sense how a house like this can be standing, the bushes are green, and yet just a few steps away, everything next door, gone.

RIPLEY (voice over): The fire danger is far from over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got a fire at -- over at Peter and Samonas (ph).

RIPLEY: As temperatures heat up, small fires reignite.

RIPLEY (on camera): But how quickly could a small, you know, hot spot turn into a dangerous situation?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, very easy, because we've still got a lot of unburnt trees on this property and very quick, especially with a little breeze that picks up.

RIPLEY (voice over): Here in New South Wales, Australia's hardest hit state, the fire season is only halfway through.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With the shop, there's no other shop here. And we're at the center where everything is.

RIPLEY: Brogamann says he's doing everything he can to help neighbors who have lost everything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We thought we should have lost about 50 houses and people dead. No one died. No one injured. And we lost a dozen houses. But also (ph) we're taken care of now. It is a miracle. I call this the miracle of Wingello.

RIPLEY: Nobody knows how long that miracle will last.

Will Ripley, CNN, Wingello, Australia.

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HARLOW: Wow.

All right, ahead, Speaker Nancy Pelosi meeting with House Democrats on Capitol Hill right now. What we have learned from the meeting, next.

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