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Harry And Meghan Will No Longer Use Royal Highness Titles; House, Trump Facing Impeachment Trial Deadlines In Coming Hours; House Releases Trove Of Documents From Indicted Giuliani Associate; Trump Adds Ken Starr To Legal Team For Senate Trial; 2020 Dems Blitz Campaign Trail Before Impeachment Trial; Trump: Impeachment Trial Is "Rigging The Election Again Against Bernie Sanders"; Biden's Campaign Ad Features Obama Speech Praising Him; Biden Open To O'Rourke, Castro As Possible Running Mate; A Man Challenged Tulsi Gabbard To A Push-Up Contest (He Lost); "Joker" Film In The Spotlight At Annual SAG Awards. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired January 18, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:00]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Great to have you here. I want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world as we cover this breaking news.

Prince Harry and Meghan Markle will no longer go by his and her royal highness. They are giving up those titles. And it is now official, they will no longer be working members of the royal family. Queen Elizabeth just announcing the terms of this agreement she has reached with her grandson and his wife.

This royal fracture follows a surprise announcement from the Duke and Duchess of Sussex last week, that announcement that has said to have taken even the palace by surprise. And the big reveal that they wanted to step back from their royal roles, and split their time between the U.K. and North America, presumably Canada.

Now, in just a moment, we'll get reaction from the former spokesman to Queen Elizabeth herself. But, first, to CNN's Anna Stewart live in London for us. And, Ana, I understand you have a statement from the queen.

ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a highly personal statement from the queen. Once again using that pronoun, my, throughout. Let me bring it to you. She says, following many months of conversations and more recent discussions, I am pleased that together we have found a constructive and supportive way forward for my grandson and his family. Harry, Meghan and Archie will always be much loved members of my family.

I recognize the challenges they have experienced as a result of intense scrutiny over the last two years, and support their wish for a more independent life. I want to thank them for all of their dedicated work across this country, the commonwealth and beyond, and I am particularly proud of how Meghan has so quickly become one of the family. It is my family's hope that today's agreement allows them to start building a happy and peaceful new life.

Ana, when we looked at the spectrum of options potentially available for the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, I would say this is at the very end of one spectrum, not just stepping back as senior members of the royal family, stepping down as working members all together and relinquishing the title, as you said, HRH, his and her royal highness, it is not being stripped from them but they've decided that they will not use it in a following statement from Buckingham Palace, a less personal statement, they said, they are required to step back from royal duties including official military appointments. And later, the Sussexes will not use the HRH titles as they are no longer working members of the royal family.

Another world bombshell, it will, of course, allow them to make a much more independent life for themselves, including, of course, working to become financially independent. That's what they said in their first shock announcement last week. So this is something they'll be able to do now that stripped themselves off this onerous title, I guess, because the HRH title does certainly comes with public duty, and a sense of public duty to the country.

So it's another shock announcement. We'll see -- we'll wait and hear more about security and costs regarding that. But for now, this is a lot to be thinking about.

CABRERA: So what is the initial reaction there from the British people?

STEWART: I was listening to a radio station on my way in to work and have to say, one of shock, I didn't think anyone quite expected such a clean break with the royal family, to be honest. The fact that they will not use those titles suggests that they will go and live a much more independent life, perhaps anyone had really appreciated.

Lots of people wondering whether this means they will still have a very high profile life, because this doesn't necessarily mean, of course, that it will be low profile. It might be they're very high profile but within their own rights, working, as they would like to, independently. It will be very interesting to see what they do with this new life, whether or not we're going to see commercial deals with Netflix, with Apple, will there be a book deal, will we see them making public engagement, speaking announcements, all sorts of questions that yet is taking Britain by storm and certainly a big talker on T.V. and radio right now.

CABRERA: And what kind of a precedent might this now set? Will we see a slimmed down monarchy in the future?

STEWART: It's interesting, because we have been discussing this for some time. The royal family, we understood, were looking at a slimmed down royal family, but that was to include the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. We heard from the last very personal statement again from the queen last week that she very much planned to have them on-site as part of a slimmed down royal family.

It does provide a new model, of course, in the future for royal family members who decide they don't want to be in the spotlight, perhaps they want to have an independent life, and they want to work independently. This certainly gives the precedent, but this is a whole new sphere. We don't really know at this stage how this is going to work out and what level of independence they are going to really have. Will they really be able to earn money and what will that really look like, so plenty of questions here.

The only HRH titles ever to be taken away from a royal family, and it hasn't been here, they are relinquishing it themselves, but it was Princess Diana after the divorce and Fergie, the Duchess of York. She had to give up her HRH title when she divorced Prince Andrew.

[15:05:02]

But those are the only two examples.

So we are in brand new territory. We're seeing history being written as we speak. Ana?

CABRERA: And, of course, Meghan has been in Canada, we know earlier this week. That was a big deal, because she wasn't there for the big grand family meeting, to work out all of the arrangements. Do you anticipate the royal couple will spend a lot, a lot more time in Canada just to stay out of the public eye there in the U.K. and all of the drama that may come with it?

STEWART: there certainly is speculation. They spent six weeks there over Christmas. The Duchess of Sussex, Meghan, of course, shortly after that bombshell announcement a couple of weeks ago and we suspect that Harry will be joining them because Meghan and Archie are still out there.

Now, this is where Meghan spent many years living and working, when she was an actress, working on the drama, Suits, so she's very familiar with it. Now, the big question, of course, for Canada is security cost. And that is something that actually in the statement at the very end of the official statement of the palace says they do not comment on the details security arrangements.

That's a very interesting point, because this could be bolder (ph) contention between the U.K. and Canada, taxpayers pick up security costs for high profile, vulnerable individuals of which they, of course, very high profile. So that will be an interesting one (ph).

If they do live in Canada, will the Canadians feel happy about picking up that potential very large security bill, something the British taxpayer will wonder whether they want to have increased costs with living between the U.K. and Canada and possibly America as well? So there is more to be worked out here, I would say, but Canada seems to be a very likely bet for their future.

CABRERA: All right. Anna Stewart there in London for us. There is so much more to learn. Thank you for that great reporting. I know you have more questions at home. We have more questions. We'll be asking those to Queen Elizabeth's former spokesman. That's coming up.

And be sure to tune in tonight for that CNN Special Report, "Royal Revolution: Harry and Meghan." That's at 9:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN. We'll be right back.

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[15:10:00]

CABRERA: More on our breaking news out of Buckingham Palace, where we just learned Prince Harry and his wife, Meghan, will no longer be working members of the royal family. According to a palace statement, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex will no longer use his and her royal highness titles. They will also pay back the money spent on renovations at Frogmore Cottage. This all follows the couple's stunning announcement last week that they wanted to step back from their roles as senior members of the royal family and split their time between the U.K. and North America.

Joining us now is former spokesman to Queen Elizabeth herself, Dickie Arbiter. He is a Royal Commentator. And, Dickie, first, I have to get just your reaction to this news that is breaking all around the world tonight.

DICKIE ARBITER, FORMER SPOKESMAN FOR QUEEN ELIZABETH II: Well, I'm not terribly surprised. They had to come to a solution that would satisfy both parties, both parties begin the Sussexes and the Queen, Prince of Wales and the Duke of Cambridge. And they've come up with the best solution.

The queen is very pragmatic. She is very fond of Harry, very fond of Meghan. And she wanted the right arrangement that would suit them and suit her and the rest of her family. So they are going to retain their titles, duke and duchess, they are not going to use HRH, although I think God bless you, Americans will probably like the idea of using HRH.

You go back historically when King Edward VIII was demoted to Duke of Windsor, when he abdicated, Wallace Simpson didn't get an HRH title but there were occasions in America where she was referred to as HRH and the Duke of Windsor referred referred to us that.

But Harry and Meghan won't be using HRH because it really will be a conflict of interest if they decide to use the Sussex brand and go commercial.

CABRERA: But they are still the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. So there has been talk about that royal Sussex potential trademark or, you know, I guess, you know, brand that they might want to capitalize on, is that still a possibility?

ARBITER: That's still very much a possibility. They've still got to get the Sussex royal brand confirmed. They have launched it with the World Intellectual Property Organization. There is a little bit of a glitch. I believe it has been approved in the United States and Canada. It's a bit of a glitch in Europe because somebody in Europe wants to -- wants that name as well. So they're going to be challenging that.

But once they do get it off the ground, it will provide them with an income. It will also provide funds for charities that they want to support. And that's important. That's why they are working. They are working and going commercial to provide funds for charities. And they still got to pick their own charities that they want to support both in Canada and in the United Kingdom, although they are involved with Charities here anyway.

CABRERA: I want to ask you more specifically about your knowledge of, you know, kind of inside the queen's head. And her statement, she acknowledges the, quote, intense scrutiny Harry and Meghan have been under. She also really seems to wrap her arms around Meghan noting how quickly she has become part of the royal family. Did that stand out to you?

ARBITER: Well, she was embraced very quickly not just the royal family but by the British people. If you remember, when they got engaged, Harry took her around the four nations of the United Kingdom, Northern Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales, and she was greeted.

They welcomed her with open arms, greeted by tens of thousands of cheering people. If you look at the wedding, they were in excess of 100,000 people along the route. It just shows you how the people of the United Kingdom embraced her, embraced Harry, they were for the happiness that Harry sought in marrying Meghan.

What went wrong is somewhere along the line was last year. Unfortunately, there was the taking private jets, having preached about carbon footprints, about global warming, about protecting the planet. And, you know, you've got to lead by example, and that wasn't leading by example. So they got a lot of bad press on that.

[15:15:01]

I have to admit that the press did go over the top, and they went on incessantly. But they swung around when Harry and Meghan went to Southern Africa. They got the most fantastic wall to wall coverage for any tour that anybody has got. But, unfortunately, they decided that they made up their own minds, they want to back off from being royals and they want to be just Harry and Meghan doing their own thing.

CABRERA: When I think about the queen and Prince Harry's relationship, I go back to this video that they shot together in 2016 for the Invictus Games. The two were talking about the games. And at the end, the queen says, boom, and Harry drops the mic. That was such a relatable moment, not just bringing the monarchy into modern times and pop culture, but it kind of just makes us all think about that special connection we all have and the bond between a grandchild and a grandma.

Just how close are the queen and Harry? What's that relationship like?

ARBITER: They are incredibly close. You've got to rewind a bit further back to the death of his mother and William's mother, Diana, Princess of Wales. They were in Scotland. They were up at Balmoral when the news came through. And it was really the queen, Prince Philip and Prince Charles who got them through those initial days of grief that they were able to come back in London and do what they did.

But they have never forgotten the death of their mother. They keep on -- they talk about it. There are hints, Katherine got Diana's engagement ring, Meghan's engagement ring was made up of jewelry from Diana.

But you mentioned that wonderful sequence of the launch of the Invictus Games when the queen said, boom, quite unlike her. But then she's done things recently that are quite unlike her. Take the James Bond experience on the opening of the Olympic Games in London. She never would have done that before but she quite enjoyed doing that.

She is very devoted to both William and Harry and they will be a bit of a disappointment that Harry and Meghan have walked away from this, particularly as the queen almost two years ago, created them Ambassadors and Queens Commonwealth Trust, a very important role in terms of youth in the commonwealth. That falls by the wayside.

And who is going to have to pick that up, because it is a very important job. And that might well fall to William and Katherine.

CABRERA: Do you think the queen takes this as a sleight to her in some way, and takes it personally?

ARBITER: No, she doesn't take it as a sleight. She is very much a family person. She wants the best for her family. She knows and she realizes that they are constantly under the media microscope, constantly under the public microscope. She has been under it all her life. Next month, in a couple of weeks' time, she would have been on this throne reigning as queen for 68 years and she's being constantly under the microscope. Some can hack it and others just find it very difficult.

You've got to remember too, the loss of his mother, Harry did admit a couple of years ago that he did suffer mental depression. And that was quite an admittance for a member of the royal family. And I suppose having created a family himself and got married and have a son and then have this incessant media onslaught has rewound the sort of mental anguish, and he just wants to step out of it.

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter where he or Meghan go, there will always be media. In this country, we have control of the paparazzi. Elsewhere, there is no control. And they will be constantly pursued by the media.

CABRERA: Yes. Dickie Arbiter, it's so good to have you here with us and your expertise and insight, it's very much appreciated. Thank you.

ARBITER: Thank you.

CABRERA: We are staying on top of this breaking news and a programming note, CNN will debut a new series about the world's most famous royal family next month, The Windsors, Inside the Royal Dynasty, premieres Sunday, February 16th at 10:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN. We're back in just a moment.

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[15:20:00]

CABRERA: Now to the impeachment trial of President Donald Trump. The big visual moment happened Tuesday when senators gathered to start hearing debates for and against removing the president from office, but several quieter but still important things are happening this weekend and all on a tight schedule.

First, we have the seven House Democratic managers, they have less than two hours from right now until 5:00 p.m. Eastern time to file a written trial brief summarizing their arguments. Just an hour later at 6:00 p.m. Eastern, the deadline for the president's legal team to respond, and remember, the White House chose to stay out of the House investigation. So this really will be the president's lawyers first time addressing the merits of the impeachment case.

And more evidence is still coming to light with new documents just released last night. And they include more text messages handed over Lev Parnas, that now indicted associate of Rudy Giuliani, who we have mentioned all week long, And remember, Parnas has already claimed the president knew everything about this dirt for dollar scheme to manipulate Ukraine and smear Joe Biden.

But now add this to the mix, evidence suggesting that the former ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, was under surveillance before she was eventually forced to leave Ukraine, because she allegedly got in the way of that scheme.

The text messages were given to Parnas by a Trump donor and Republican congressional candidate from Connecticut named Robert Hyde. And they show Hyde communicating with someone at an unknown Belgian number who seems to be tracking Yovanovitch's movements, messages like, quote, nothing has changed, she is still not moving. They checked today again. It's confirmed, we have a person inside.

[15:25:01]

And this, she's been there since Tuesday, never left the embassy. There were other text messages Hyde directly sent to Parnas implying the ambassador was spied on.

Just look, she talked to three people. Her phone is off. Computer is off. She's next to the embassy. Not in the embassy, private security, teen there since Thursday. He later texted, quote, that address I sent you checks out. It's next to the embassy. They're willing to help if we, you, would like a price. Guess you can do anything in the Ukraine with money, what I was told.

Now, what he meant by you can do anything with money remains unclear, but it was enough for police in Ukraine to now open a criminal investigation into possible spying on Yovanovitch.

Hyde has denied being involved in any surveillance of Yovanovitch. But what does all this have to do with the president, you may be asking? Lev Parnas told Anderson Cooper he actually witnessed Trump telling a top aide that the ambassador should be fired.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEV PARNAS, INDICTED ASSOCIATE OF RUDY GIULIANI: in the conversation, the subject of Ukraine was brought up, and I told the president that our opinion that she is bad-mouthing him and that she said that he is going to get impeached, something like that. I don't know if that's word for word, but that she was --

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: You said that at the table --

PARNAS: Correct.

COOPER: -- where the president was?

PARNAS: Correct, correct.

And his reaction was he looked at me, like he had gotten very angry and basically turned around to John DeStefano and said, fire her, get rid of her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: The president has denied even knowing Parnas. But what is not in dispute is that in Trump's now infamous July 25th phone call with Ukraine's president, Trump said, quote, the former ambassador for the United States, the woman was bad news, she is going to go through some things, going to go through some things.

Joining us now is Carrie Cordero, CNN Legal Analyst and former Counsel to the U.S. Assistant Attorney General for National Security. And also with us is Sarah Isgur, CNN Political Analyst and Staff Writer for The Dispatch.

Sarah, Democrats want all this new evidence included in the Senate trial. But the issue is whether they can peel off four Republican senators to vote with them to make that happen. Do you think they can?

SARAH ISGUR, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think it's looking likely. Mitt Romney, for instance, has already come out and said that he would vote in favor of hearing from additional witnesses, but some of this is a pox on both of their Houses. On the one hand, it puts Republicans in a very tough spot to say that they don't want any more information. On the other hand, it also puts a light on the House investigation, that maybe they should have taken more time and sent over a more thorough set of articles over to the Senate.

I heard Bob Barr earlier last hour on this network, and he was saying that the Senate can only look at what the House sent over. That's obviously not quite correct. But still it casts a light on the entire investigation up to this point when more is coming out every day.

CABRERA: Carrie, we mentioned all that new evidence suggesting that Ambassador Yovanovitch was being spied on in the lead-up here to her firing after the Ukraine scandal. Here is how Robert Hyde, the man who sent many of those text messages, is responding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT HYDE, U.S. CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: So they are sending me these texts and I'm like whatever, dude, yes, under surveillance, just joking, nobody ever really knew that. And I never pictured anything was real.

I didn't think anything was real. Who would be surveilling a U.S. ambassador? Like who could do that? I would never imagine a joke (ph) like these jokers that you meet at fundraisers that, you know, legit people were like, Rob, pull me aside, stay away from these people. I never thought like anything they were saying was real.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Carrie, what's your reaction to that?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think there is just a lot more that needs to be learned and I think it is law enforcement and the Ukrainian investigators who are going to learn it as to whether or not this Mr. Hyde is credible at all. The text messages themselves look problematic.

And in the context of the president also saying that she's going to go through some things, the other public intimidation and behind the scenes effort within the efforts that Rudy Giuliani was making to try to get rid of Ambassador Yovanovitch from her position, looked like there is some, at least, reason to be looking into whether or not she was under some kind of surveillance.

So I just think it is something that looks like, requires a substantial investigation as to whether or not there really was some bad activity going on around her.

CABRERA: Sarah, the president has hired Kenneth Starr, the independent counsel from the Clinton impeachment, to join his legal defense team, but let's remember, Trump hasn't had always had a high opinion of Starr. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think Ken Starr is a lunatic. I really think that Ken Starr is a disaster. I hated the way the president handled it, it was a long and terrible process. I really think that Ken Starr was terrible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:30:00]

CABRERA: He called him terrible, Sarah. Are you surprised he was picked?

ISGUR: I mean, there's no better expert on how to run this. If you're looking for a legal expert for Trump's team and Ken Starr probably right now. And this isn't the first thing that the President has changed his mind on in the last 20 years.

CABRERA: Carrie, we saw a very colorful reaction from Monica Lewinsky after this news broke that Starr was joining Trump's defense team. She tweeted, "This is definitely an 'are you effing kidding me?' kinda day." If Starr comes in and he argues the exact opposite of what he argued during Clinton's impeachment, wouldn't that raise some serious questions?

CORDERO: Well, I think what's interesting when we look at the selection of the team that the President has made is he really doesn't have a Republican or a conservative constitutional lawyer superstar on his team. And you think that in light of the historic Senate impeachment trial, that he would.

But Ken Starr perhaps he used to fall into that category but his reputation really has been damaged from his tenure at Baylor and his affiliation in obtaining the plea deal with Jeffrey Epstein and so there's really nobody else on that team. When I think of someone like a Ted Olson or Paul Clement, they're not representing the President in this case.

CABRERA: All right. Carrie Cordero and Sarah Isgur, thank you, ladies.

CORDERO: Thanks.

CABRERA: As the President's impeachment heads to the Senate, CNN has a special coverage all days beginning on Tuesday. You don't want to miss a moment from the capital. You can watch THE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL OF PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP right here. Our complete coverage on CNN begins Tuesday. We'll be right back.

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[15:37:12]

CABRERA: Can you believe it? We are 16 days and counting until the Iowa caucuses now and with Trump's impeachment trial expected to go at least two weeks. The candidates, of course, are doing the math and they are hitting the trail this weekend with a new sense of urgency.

Meantime, the President is suggesting the Senate trial is a calculated strategy by establishment Democrats to keep Bernie Sanders off the campaign trail, to help Joe Biden in the Democratic contest. Here's the tweet from President Trump.

"They are rigging the election again against Bernie Sanders, just like last time, only even more obviously. They are bringing him out of so important Iowa in order that, as a Senator, he sit through the impeachment Hoax Trial. Crazy Nancy thereby gives the strong edge too Sleepy Joe Biden and Bernie is shut out again."

Joining me now, former Democratic Governor of Michigan, Jennifer Granholm and Democratic Strategists and former Clinton White House aide Keith Boykin. Keith, the impeachment trial, obviously, is not an effort to rig the

primary, but the President is putting this conspiracy theory out there. Do you think he's just trying to stir the pot among Democrats or is this an effort to boost Sanders, presumably, because he sees him as a lesser threat?

KEITH BOYKIN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE AIDE UNDER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: Maybe both, but I think Trump has a history of trying to sow discord in the Democratic Party. He did this in 2016. He was the main contributor of the conspiracy theory that the Democratic Party was out to get Sanders in 2016. Some people believe that still. But the reality is ...

CABRERA: And you think back even earlier in the birther conspiracy theory that he was such part of ...

BOYKIN: Exactly. He's playing the same role in the Democratic Party that the Russians played in the 2016 election. It's almost like it doesn't really matter what the outcome is. He just wants to create chaos and confusion in the party.

And by putting the Bernie people against, pitting the Bernie people against the Pelosi people suggesting somehow that this is all conspiracy against Bernie. Even the Bernie Sanders people don't believe this. I mean this schedule of having an impeachment wasn't designed around picking a particular candidate and besides that there are other candidates who are running for office too like Amy Klobuchar was in the United States Senate.

CABRERA: Right.

BOYKIN: Before that, Kamala Harris and Cory Booker, they're also in the United States Senate.

CABRERA: And Michael Bennet ...

BOYKIN: And Michael Bennet. And so the idea that created a whole impeachment trial schedule, which the Democrats don't have any control over, by the way, Mitch McConnell does. In order to somehow have an impact on Bernie Sanders is preposterous.

CABRERA: However, Nancy Pelosi did withhold those articles, Governor. Do you think Pelosi would have or should have considered the campaign timing in which candidates could be impacted when she delayed sending over the articles?

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. I think she did the right thing, actually, because we've learned since that all of those other information has come out and that delay has, I think, put the Republicans in the center, really on the spot enormously when you hear everything that Lev Parnas is saying and look at the documents that have been released. None of this is scheduled as Keith said to somehow jimmy or rig or have this conspiratorial aura around the Democratic primary.

[15:40:08] Fortunately, these candidates, the senators, have spent tons of time

in Iowa. It's not a mystery who they are. Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, they are super well known in Iowa. So the only real question will be in 16 days, what happens? And to me, that's a super interesting question, because everybody is bunched up in the same place and you might emerge from Iowa with no clear consensus.

CABRERA: And in an effort to maybe set himself apart, Biden is once again reminding voters of his ties to former President Obama. Watch this new out of his.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We all know that on its own, his work does not capture the full measure of Joe Biden. When Joe talks about opportunity for our children, we hear the father who rode the rails home every night so he could be there to tuck his kids into bed.

When Joe talks to Gold Star families who've lost a hero, we hear another father of an American veteran. A resilient, and loyal, and humble servant. The best part is he's nowhere close finished."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Keith, this appears to be just the latest instance of Biden trying to play up his connection and his service alongside President Obama. I mean, who can forget those old friendship bracelets, that tweet he put out last year? He took some heat for that. Is this ad smart on Biden's part?

BOYKIN: Well, I think it's smart. It's effective. I mean, Barack Obama is Joe Biden's ace in the hole. I mean, that's really the primary argument that Joe Biden has for why people in the party and why particularly African-Americans should trust him because Barack Obama trusted him for eight years as his vice president.

Now, that's not enough, in my opinion, to get somebody's vote in the Democratic primary. But if that's the best argument you got, why wouldn't you put that forward so I can't blame him for doing that. Obama, by the way, is not endorsing anybody. And if I were Barack Obama, I wouldn't endorse anyone either until the party decides who the nominee is going to be. So from Biden's point of view, I don't blame him for doing that.

CABRERA: Governor, Biden also this week made some headlines when he talked to The Dallas Morning News. And he said he would consider Beto O'Rourke and Julian Castro as running mates. But we know Castro has already endorsed Senator Elizabeth Warren, what's this all about?

GRANHOLM: I think it's just showing that he is open. He hasn't made up his mind. He would like to, I think, pick somebody who is of the next generation as well to give people some comfort that there will be some continuity in the administration. I think he's just demonstrating that he's open to a variety of candidates. We've heard Stacey Abrams, we've heard Kamala Harris. I think it's

just a smart strategy to show that he's open to that next generation. And particularly, obviously, Beto O'Rourke is not a person of color, but people of color on the ticket I think would be really important.

And by the way, Julian Castro endorsed Elizabeth Warren, but for whatever reason she doesn't make it to the nomination, I'm sure Julian Castro would be quite honored to be considered for vice president.

CABRERA: Guys, I just want to have a little fun. Did you want to chime in real fast? Go ahead, Keith.

BOYKIN: I just want to say, I'd be shocked if Joe Biden were to win the nomination. I'd be shocked if he didn't pick a woman or person of color to be his running mate. I'd be shocked if we had two white men on the ticket. I don't think that's even a remote possibility in this election cycle.

CABRERA: OK, now let's have some fun.

GRANHOLM: I agree.

CABRERA: And I want you to see this, I don't know if you've seen this already. A man on the campaign trail challenged Tulsi Gabbard in a push-up contest. This is in New Hampshire on one of her town halls. And guess what, keep watching because he lost. He gave up.

Governor Gabbard is a combat veteran. She served in Iraq. What do you think, girl power?

GRANHOLM: Totally girl power. I love that. I love that. I think she's going to need more than that to make it to the convention and win. But any demonstration of strength by a woman and anytime a woman can beat a man physically, I think that's a really great moment of inspiration.

CABRERA: I'm thinking of that emoji, that big bicep emoji right now. Governor Granholm, Keith Boykin, thank you both.

GRANHOLM: You bet.

CABRERA: Coming up to our breaking news out of London, the Queen announcing Harry and Meghan will no longer represent her and will not use royal titles. That means we needed to find where in the world Richard Quest was and we found him in Davos. We'll see if he can hold out for one commercial break with his reaction when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:48:51]

CABRERA: It's our breaking news on CNN, Britain's Queen Elizabeth II in Buckingham Palace making official the new status of Harry and Meghan, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. On the phone with us now, CNN's Business Editor-at-Large, Richard Quest.

And Richard, just help us understand how enormous this news is to the British monarchy that these two will no longer have their royal titles, will no longer represent the Queen?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: So what you're witnessing is the first amicable royal divorce. And I don't mean in terms of a husband and a wife, but I'm talking about a member of the family that wishes to divorce themselves. If you wish - if you think of the - and this is royal family, they like to call themselves the firm, effectively highly resigned from those term and what we're now seeing is this exit package. The deal that's been done.

They will keep their titles but they won't use them. It would have been - those titles, they were given at birth, they're still members of the family. And now the Queen was at great pain to point out Harry and Meghan are much loved members of the family.

Now, will they still turn up at Sandringham Christmas, we don't know.

[15:50:04]

CABRERA: Right.

QUEST: But as public royals, those days are now over and they will have to find their own source of income, probably from Prince Charles initially, and they will not be able to represent the Queen, which I think is a blow to Harry. That's the prize he is prepared to pay to get the freedom and the liberty and the privacy that he seeks.

I'm not sure he's going to get it, but that's the plan.

CABRERA: And I just wonder for him what that is going to be like. He knows nothing else. I mean this has been his life.

QUEST: Absolutely. He has been closeted within the confines, except, of course, when he's in the military or when he was overseas on active duty. He does know what life is like outside the royalty. I think the really interesting thing is going to be once they've decided where they're going to settle down.

So let's say they settle down in Western Canada and they got a certain level of security probably paid for by Prince Charles initially or some variant thereof of the Canadian government. But they'll still going to be amongst the world's most recognizable people that the paparazzi are going to want to take photographs of and it is going to be a mess because you're going to have them sending them off without royal security, without the privacy.

It's not easy to see how this is going to work in practice, but that's what they wanted. And the Queen playing hardball. Remember, tradition, duty, integrity, these are the words that the Queen lives by. And she obviously said, I respect what you want to do, but you can't do this and have royalty too. It's one or the other, choose.

CABRERA: Richard, because you have expertise in business, I wanted to ask you about this trademark they filed for, Sussex Royal, do you think they can actually no longer be part of the royal working family and still make money off of their royal past? QUEST: Well, it's a really interesting question because he's still a

royal. I mean you can't take that away from him. He is still a royal. He is born to the heir of the throne. His mother is the queen. So he's still a royal, but he is not a senior royal. Can he use the (inaudible) royal? I mean, I can't see them ever litigating it.

But really the big question is, is Meghan going to go back to television and film, what are the causes that they are going to champion, because they were still going to be allowed to have that affinities and how is he going to earn money. Is he going to do corporate boards? Is he going to do advisory? What is Harry going to do to actually earn money or is he going to try and parlay the royal? It will be an interesting question.

CABRERA: For sure. Richard Quest, thank you very much for taking the time.

QUEST: Yes. Thank you.

CABRERA: We'll be right back.

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CABRERA: The annual SAG Awards are tomorrow and the supervillain flick Joker is back in the spotlight. CNN Stephanie Elam tells us how Joker went from its very divisive debut to a heavy favorite for an Oscar.

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STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT(voice-over): Joker getting the last laugh this awards season.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joker.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joker.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joaquin Phoenix, Joker.

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ELAM(voice over): Already Joaquin Phoenix with two big wins, now nominated for a Screen Actor Guild Award and an Oscar.

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SANDY PHILLIPS, DAUGHTER KILLED IN AURORA SHOOTING: The more I read, the more upset I got.

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ELAM(voice over): Only months ago, some critics argued the film could inspire violence.

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PHILLIPS: How are other survivors of not just Aurora but of gun violence going to react to being triggered again?

SCOTT FEINBERG, AWARDS COLUMNIST, THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: If there were to be another incident around the time of voting or whatever, you could see how that would maybe make people not want to elevate this movie further.

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ELAM(voice over): But in his Critic's Choice win for best actor, Phoenix flipped the script, while praising Joker's director.

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JOAQUIN PHOENIX, ACTOR, JOKER: Instead of inciting violence, you invited the audience in to see what it feels like when you're one of the forgotten.

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ELAM(voice over): Hollywood seeing strength in numbers, the public rewarding Joker with a billion dollars worldwide box office.

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MATHEW BELLONI, EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: The creative community's position on this is that no one should censor themselves because they don't feel like the message of the movie is for the masses. If that were the case, you wouldn't have any art.

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ELAM(voice over): If Phoenix wins the SAG Awards Sunday, an Oscar win seems to be no joke.

Stephanie Elam, CNN Hollywood.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. And our breaking news this hour, Prince Harry and Meghan Markle are no longer working members of the royal family and they will no longer be referred to has his or her royal highness. They're giving up those titles. This is all part of an agreement just announced this afternoon by Queen Elizabeth.

[16:00:03]

This royal fracture follows a surprise announcement from the Duke and Duchess of Sussex last week.